How many people will stay off property and/or vacation elsewhere?

[Eeyore2U]

I don't think we'll ever know.

I'm not sure if they will see the AP discounts. My guess is that Disney has a plan that will come out soon to make it attractice to stay onsite and not off.

 

[ArcticWildMan]

I agree. FTP was a great way to get folks who haven't visited in years to visit again, but I don't see it as the answer to Disney's problems.

A large portion of the folks who are using FTP, probably won't be back for another 5-10 years. It may be good for another summer's worth of use, but after that they risk the chance of having depleted the pool to draw from and seeing REALLY low attendance numbers.

They have to find some way of keeping the repeat customers who don't want/need the FTP, coming back.

 

[Eeyore2U]

I agree.

I think you'll see that DVC will help to a small degree. The resorts seem to sell out quickly.

 

[ncligs]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U
I agree.

Eeyore2U and ArticWildman

Glad to see you 2 kiss and make up.

 

[Eeyore2U]

Originally posted by ncligs
Eeyore2U and ArticWildman

Glad to see you 2 kiss and make up.

It won't last long I"m sure!!!

 

[ArcticWildMan]

Originally posted by Eeyore2U
It won't last long I"m sure!!!

LOL!!

 

[magicmouse2]

After a long think I have decided that this is the first and last time that I will Pay rack rate at any disney resort.
After that its an offsite villa for us. Our next trip is in April and POR is not worth $174 or so per night. (*2 rooms) We dont mind driving and can rent a car for $700.

 

[miko]

A large portion of the folks who are using FTP, probably won't be back for another 5-10 years. It may be good for another summer's worth of use, but after that they risk the chance of having depleted the pool to draw from and seeing REALLY low attendance numbers.

I live in a relatively new neighborhood of Northern VA. It is probably typical of the numerous new developments in the area. Most familieas are 2 income (about $175k combined) with rather young kids. Since it is widely known by neighbors that we are into Disney (decorations, flags discussions) we are constantly asked to help with Disney trip plans over the next 2-5 years. I don't think Disney is running out of new guests. In fact based on this area, the next few years for Disney should be great.
I have had an AP for several years and don't like the possibility of loosing some of the perks offered with the pass. I am staying at Swan for first time in September and will very likely stay there or offsite for December trip. The true AP advantage to me is park visits. I normally am in parks at least once a month and then 2 trips for 7 days each gives me more than my monies worth for the AP. I guess Disney is betting that AP holders will either continue to come or drop AP and take advantage of packages which is their best "option" finacially.

 

[DisFlan]

Room discounts (or no discounts) are only one aspect of the problems at WDW. I'll hazard a guess here that they're actually just the straw that's breaking the camel's back for loyal WDW patrons.

I'm fairly new to the Disboards, but I've been going to Disney World since 1977. Except for our first two trips, we've always stayed on site Deluxe and paid rack rate about half the trips. In the past this didn't bother us because we felt we got good value for $$ spent. That began to change about two trips ago. The cost and hassle factors at Disney began to climb appreciably about that time. Whereas we had always felt we'd gotten a big bang for the bucks spent on the Magic Factor, we began to feel a creeping sense of unease about what all the Magic was beginning to cost us for the same vacation. Even Disney reaches a point of diminishing return.

We love WDW, but we no longer just plunk our money down, dive in and simply enjoy the "suspension of disbelief" while we're there. Disney has made it increasingly harder to do that. The monumental increase of on-site "ads" for both Disney and non-Disney products, increasing resort/ticket/food expense and Disney's lessening attention to detail (THE biggest single factor) have all led us to often feel more like cash cows than Walt's honored guests. On our last trip, we came away with the feeling that we had merely been supporting WDW until things improved. This saddened me deeply. We should have come away feeling we'd enjoyed the top-rate, premium vacation we were used to. We didn't.

We still love the Magic. But it seems like we have to work harder to find it. I doubt we are alone in this.

We live in a gorgeous, prime vacation area (near Branson). Our own economy is highly based on tourism, and we've already begun to spend more time closer to home. We'll still go to WDW, but it won't be as often as in the past.

 

[photobob]

I would say that if I couldn't get a room only discount, i'd stay onsite but at a lesser resort. I usually have a price range I'm looking for and I try through discounts to stay at the nicest onsite resort available in that range. I lucked up this time with a tremendously low rate at POFQ and got upgraded to YC. I'd hate to see room only discounts disappear. I don't like packages. i like to do everything myself, it is usually much cheaper that way. My feeling is that with discount rates you can entice more people to come and maybe stay longer. The key is to get the people there, once you do that they will spend the money...

 

[faithinkarma]

I'm fairly new to the Disboards, but I've been going to Disney World since 1977. Except for our first two trips, we've always stayed on site Deluxe and paid rack rate about half the trips. In the past this didn't bother us because we felt we got good value for $$ spent. That began to change about two trips ago. The cost and hassle factors at Disney began to climb appreciably about that time. Whereas we had always felt we'd gotten a big bang for the bucks spent on the Magic Factor, we began to feel a creeping sense of unease about what all the Magic was beginning to cost us for the same vacation. Even Disney reaches a point of diminishing return.

We love WDW, but we no longer just plunk our money down, dive in and simply enjoy the "suspension of disbelief" while we're there. Disney has made it increasingly harder to do that. The monumental increase of on-site "ads" for both Disney and non-Disney products, increasing resort/ticket/food expense and Disney's lessening attention to detail (THE biggest single factor) have all led us to often feel more like cash cows than Walt's honored guests. On our last trip, we came away with the feeling that we had merely been supporting WDW until things improved. This saddened me deeply. We should have come away feeling we'd enjoyed the top-rate, premium vacation we were used to. We didn't.

We still love the Magic. But it seems like we have to work harder to find it. I doubt we are alone in this.


Bravo DisFlan ! You are definitely not alone. You certainly described my sentiments exactly. 10 years ago, I would not have thought it was possible for Disney to alienate me. But they have systematically chipped away at " the magic". Once the magic is gone, Disney has lost its advantage over other vacation choices.

And the other choices are definitely becoming more appealing. A bit of perspective.......Just this weekend I received a travel brochure. For $799 per person, we can have a 4 day Thanksgiving vacation in Ireland. This would include flight, first class hotels, escorted tour, most meals. All this for what we are paying for 3 nights Polynesian conceirge. Sure makes you think.

 

[AirForceRocks]

We'll go anyway, and stay onsite at either a Disney resort or SoG. I've already booked CSR at rack rate for our August 2004 trip. As soon as I can, I'm going to book a back-up room at SoG, just in case there aren't any discounts next year.

I'm hoping for FL resident discounts next year like they had this year - if they are the same, we may end up at WL...if there aren't any discounts, then we'll stay at SoG for less than rack at CSR.

 

[DisFlan]

faithinkarma-

My SIL and BIL recently spent two weeks in the UK and Ireland for TWO THOUSAND dollars less than we spent on our last 5 day WDW trip. This included air, top hotels, meals and unlimited use of a car! I'm still hearing about it.

But to be fair, they'll be accompanying us to WDW for 6 days next March. My BIL has never been before, and right now he thinks it'll just be a big waste ("Tickets are HOW much??"). We're staying at a 2 bd in Old Key West, and I'm praying this trip will have lots more pixie dust than the last one. He mainly agreed to go for their 3 year old daughter. He agrees that Disney World is a "right of passage" for any little kid. He says that if the trip is a bust she might be too young to remember. I'll bet otherwise. Pooh is already her favorite character.

I'm hoping this next trip will UN-alienate us - back to the way we used to feel about WDW. If it doesn't, I can almost guarantee that next time around my husband will be playing golf in Ireland or Hawaii instead of Eagle Pines or the Magnolia.

 

[DisFlan]

sorry- double post! not sure how I did that.

 

[bsears]

DisFlan,

It will be really interesting to see what your BIL's reaction is to this trip. Having never experienced Disney in its " glory days ", he might well be impressed.

We also have a trip planned for this fall. 2 nights AKL, 5 nights DVC rental at Boardwalk, 3 nights Poly concierge. This will be only the second visit for my brand new DH, so I am curious to see what he thinks of it also.

I'm afraid that at this point, my own expectations are quite low. But I am still hoping. If I am " alienated " back, I can see a DVC purchase in the near future.

 

[clutter]

Well, we've booked the first 4 (maybe 5) days of our 9 day trip at Hotel Royal Plaza. The ONLY reason we may do a disney resort (and I'm torn between ASMu and CBR) is because our May trip was cut short due to a death in the family. It'll be a good test, doing on and off site the same trip, because I'll know for sure how much we'll go back in the future.

Disney seems to think that one size fits all. Well, DVC doesn't work for us (unless I can buy enough points for 15 days for $125/month! I'll have to stop at one of their marketing pavilions to see if they can do that!!!), since we don't need all that space. UPH's are a waste of our money, since dd's too young to really enjoy DQ, and I'd rather be at work than go to a water park for the day (plus, I'd rather go when it's too cool to swim!).

Miko mentioned that there are a lot of future customers out there. I agree. But the vast majority of the ones I know are planning to go one time in their kids' lives. Their impression is that Disney is expensive (it is, and it's getting more so), so only worth a one-time trip. The few I know that go more frequently generally put other add-ons, like visiting relative, friends, sea world, in their trip.

Oh well, if it works for disney, it'll be the new reality. But if it doesn't......

 

[missypie]

We spent last spring break at DLR ... $139 a night at the DLH (a "deluxe", I assure you) and $613 for 5 days of Parkhopper passes for the 5 of us. Quite a deal.

Next spring break it's DLP for us. We're staying off site in a 2 bedroom flat for $200 a night including tax. I'm going to keep track, because I just bet the trip to Paris will cost less than the same amount of time at WDW.

 

[DisFlan]

bsears-

I'm waiting to see my BIL's impression, too! We'll either have a great time - or it'll be a long week. I'm counting on his daughter's happy face to move him toward liking WDW.

We've discussed DVC in the past, too, and if this trip goes well we'll look into it. I plan to check it out while we're there. Our son and his wife (both were in the WDW college program) will be with us, too. They are already WDW-lovers. They've only been married a year, but we can see lots of future trips with grandchildren. Kids make their own magic at Disney, and I wouldn't miss those little smiling faces for anything!

I hope your DH enjoys every minute of your trip this fall!

 

[Purrrrfecta]

The "Disney experience" is simply not as magical as it once was. In years past, you would virtually never encounter a rude or unhelpful CM. That is part of what you were paying for. The excellence of the staff. Sadly, now you do. And it detracts from the experience.

How right you are!
I can tell you that my vacation at the Beach Club in 1992 was absolutely MAGICAL!
However, things have changed. When I stayed at AKL in December I was left with a sour taste in my mouth. It just was not the same despite being treated really well by the barmaid by the pool.
It felt like I was staying in a place........just a place...... Yes, there was a special theme, but I didn't feel special. NOt like I did at the Beach Club. Even when staying at the CBR I felt some magic, but no more.

My mother wants to stay at the Poly or Floridian. I told her $540 and $620 respectively a nite for the concierge level.

I CAN'T LET HER DO IT! I am teacher, and I know I can stay at the Swan or Dolphin concierge for $220.

Unless my mother is going to be treated the way I was at the beach club for $149 a nite including taxes in 1992, she is not going!

So then what about a moderate? Sorry, no can do. I love DD, and the Hilton is right across the street. Stayed there in their tower. Concierge great, beats having to eat in a food court atmosphere all the time as well!

 

[BethC1952]

It's definitely worth the money for me. I will continue to go to WDW, and will happily pay rack rate. I have never had anything but a magical experience (and yes, I've been there recently). Part of the reason for that is that I bring my own magic with me.

My stay at WDW is a time away from reality with the people I care for most. I budget my trip so that I can afford it, and pay for it entirely before I leave, no credit cards, no charging it, so there are no financial worries once I'm there. I don't have a need to stay at a deluxe resort, I'm happy as can be at the moderates and values. There are some many different things that I can do while at WDW that each day feels like a new vacation. I don't feel pressured to spend money on "stuff" (well, except for food!), but I love shopping and looking at the things I would never buy anyway!

I will continue to vacation at WDW as long as I can afford to do so. I would be pleased to see discounts, but I don't depend on them for my trip.

Beth