How many people can fit into the Magic Kingdom?

[byoung]

I will continue to stay away on the crowed days.

 

[ujpest_doza]

May i cheekily suggest that attendance figures are closely guarded secrets for Tax reasons?? eg fewer people reported as being there means lower reported income to the IRS means less tax paid.

 

[GoofyDad869]

Interesting point. I also wonder how the Fire Marshall determines the maximum occupancy? Technically (in my interpretation), when you are at Magic Kingdom you are on the rooftop of a building (Utilidors underneath). That would limit the number considerably versus calculating the number of people allowed per occupiable acre.

 

[CarolB]

Actually, it is 72,000.

That's the numbers I have heard from other CM's who work there. We were at MK on 12/27/05 when they closed the park for awhile because they had reached that "magic number" give or take....and it was impossible to even move! We headed over to Epcot for a while. They (MK) re-opened (to entering guests) later in the afternoon, as the crowd lessened, but we didn't return. We assumed it was still way too crowded for us! I know they were anticipating 72,000 in MK on Christmas Day this year and I assume they reached it (based on DD's comments) but we stayed far away until the final Spectro parade and then never ventured past Main Street.

 

[WillCAD]

Interesting point. I also wonder how the Fire Marshall determines the maximum occupancy? Technically (in my interpretation), when you are at Magic Kingdom you are on the rooftop of a building (Utilidors underneath). That would limit the number considerably versus calculating the number of people allowed per occupiable acre.

It's not really the rooftop of a building. MK is built up above the previous grade (I think it's 14 feet?), but the whole thing isn't one giant basement; it's basically a man-made hill, with the Utilidor system built into it. Except in areas where you are actually on top of a Utilidor, most of MK is built on dirt that was trucked in to build up the grade, so I don't think that is a factor in determining ocupancy.

My guess is that the total occupancy of all the buildings and line queues might have something to do with it, or it might be a simple matter of the acreage of the park, or some combination of the two.

The whole build-up thing is fascinating, though. It's like a land version of how they built whole new islands for the airports in Hong Kong, Kobe, and Osaka, except they didn't build MK out to sea!

 

[civileng68]

It's not really the rooftop of a building. MK is built up above the previous grade (I think it's 14 feet?), but the whole thing isn't one giant basement; it's basically a man-made hill, with the Utilidor system built into it. Except in areas where you are actually on top of a Utilidor, most of MK is built on dirt that was trucked in to build up the grade, so I don't think that is a factor in determining ocupancy.

My guess is that the total occupancy of all the buildings and line queues might have something to do with it, or it might be a simple matter of the acreage of the park, or some combination of the two.

The whole build-up thing is fascinating, though. It's like a land version of how they built whole new islands for the airports in Hong Kong, Kobe, and Osaka, except they didn't build MK out to sea!

To a previous poster, epcot actually does have a fire code occupancy limit.

You are right however.

There is a specific formula and process used to determined occupancy codes. It's not just a number they throw out.

They determine it by the TYPE of building, the AGE of the building (for this reason, occupancy rates can change unless refurbishment to buildings is done), the roof style of the building, the square footage of the building, landscape, nearby water, number and location of accesses, and even windy areas.

They literally take every "building" structure and determine an occupancy rate for each. Then they take the square footage and size of walking/standing/queue areas, etc, and determine that.

There are many many factors.

Because occupancy rates can change due to the reasons I listed above, my understanding is that in 1985, the occupancy rate was 100,000 people (though it was not "strictly" enforced, even by legal entities) and that since then, due to the various reasons I listed above, the number has been reduced over the years, which is to be expected.

 

[Dznefreek]

May i cheekily suggest that attendance figures are closely guarded secrets for Tax reasons?? eg fewer people reported as being there means lower reported income to the IRS means less tax paid.

Wrong, taxes are paid on general revenue not a body count.

Attendnace figures are probably guarded to prevent compeditors from planning strategies to get Guests away from Disney.

I think they increase attendance by opening new shows, attractions, and things like Mardi Gras not by knowing how many people are there.

 

[civileng68]

Wrong, taxes are paid on general revenue not a body count.

Right. And correct me if Im wrong, because Im not 100% sure here but, Disney is located 1/2 on Orange Co. and 1/2 on Osceola Co. and Disney purposely does not use most of the land on Orange Co. so as not to pay taxes to Orange Co. since Orange Co. would not give them a tax break. Disney asked Orange Co. for a big tax break if Disney built and maintained it's own roads on that side and never requested any funding for them from the Co. Orange refused, obviously wanting disney tax money.

However, Osceola Co. agreed to the deal and Disney is basically, legally and rightfully per their agreement with Osceola Co. getting away incredibly cheap on taxes.


Im sure it's more for competitive reasons. If those numbers are made public, and Universals numbers are better (just hypothetically), you can be 100% sure, those numbers would show up in Universal advertising, and vice versa if the situation was reversed. Though Disney is likely not intimidated by Universal, it's only smart business practice, not to release those numbers.

Also, as if we can't tell patterns on our own anyways, Im sure they dont want to make public day patterns of heavy traffic (aside from the obvious), for security reasons.

 

[HumphreytheBear]

Right. And correct me if Im wrong, because Im not 100% sure here but, Disney is located 1/2 on Orange Co. and 1/2 on Osceola Co. and Disney purposely does not use most of the land on Orange Co. so as not to pay taxes to Orange Co. since Orange Co. would not give them a tax break. Disney asked Orange Co. for a big tax break if Disney built and maintained it's own roads on that side and never requested any funding for them from the Co. Orange refused, obviously wanting disney tax money.

However, Osceola Co. agreed to the deal and Disney is basically, legally and rightfully per their agreement with Osceola Co. getting away incredibly cheap on taxes.

.

Correct, but backwards. MOST of the built up WDW is in Orange County. The All Stars, Animal Kingdom Lodge and a portion of the AK park (perhaps some of Pop, I am not sure on that one) are the only things that are built in Osceola, everything else is in Orange County.

In order to accomodate this tax difference you will see that the prices on items, for example in the gift stores are different at the Osceola locations than you would see in the other locations. The prices in these locations appear lower, but they will work out the same at the register, the price tag shows a lower price in order to accomodate for the higher taxes in Osceola county, this way you are not paying more for an item at the All Stars than you would pay for it at Downtown Disney.

 

[WillCAD]

I think they increase attendance by opening new shows, attractions, and things like Mardi Gras not by knowing how many people are there.

Quite true! I just meant that knowing when your competition is at it's strongest and weakest allows you to better plan WHEN to open new attractions or plan special events.

The attendance figures would also allow you to know which feature of your competition are the most popular, thus allowing you to plan what kind of new attractions to build.

Disney certainly does it; witness the heavy investment Disney has made in thrill rides like Test Track, Mission: Space, and Expedition Everest since Uni opened Islands of Adventure. IOA is a thrill park, no two ways about it, and it's very popular among thrill ride enthusiasts. Disney, on the other hand, has always shied away from being too heavy on the thrill rides, preferring to put in an even mix of thrills and relaxing attrations so as to make the parks attract a wider demographic.

I don't think the attendance figures are that big a secret. The general public may not know them, but I'm sure there are hundreds of people in WDW management who know them. And I'm also sure that it's not terribly difficult for the management at Uni and SeaWorld to get hold of them, either.

 

[jgmklmhem]

Just to give reference: (stats are based off of numbers reported for the year 2005 in Amusement business)
Average daily attendence:
WDW
MK 44,100
EPCOT 27,100
MGM 23,500
DAK 22,400

DLR
DL 39,700
DCA 15,900

Others:
Sea World Orlando 15,300
Universal Orlando 16,700
Islands of Adventure 15,800

 

[civileng68]

Just to give reference: (stats are based off of numbers reported for the year 2005 in Amusement business)
Average daily attendence:
WDW
MK 44,100
EPCOT 27,100
MGM 23,500
DAK 22,400

DLR
DL 39,700
DCA 15,900

Others:
Sea World Orlando 15,300
Universal Orlando 16,700
Islands of Adventure 15,800

While obviously due to the number of parks and size of the property, it is still amazing to see these numbers and now sort of get an idea for how much MORE money WDW is bringing in, as opposed to DL (just on tickets alone, let alone imagining other sales). Wow!

 

[jgmklmhem]

While obviously due to the number of parks and size of the property, it is still amazing to see these numbers and now sort of get an idea for how much MORE money WDW is bringing in, as opposed to DL (just on tickets alone, let alone imagining other sales). Wow!

Not to mention Hotel revenue...3 hotels at DLR versus over 15 at WDW plus DVC.

 

[Poohbear123]

My DH's friend, who does not like Disney, asked me how many people are at the parks each day, "like 5,000?" I told him about 25-35 THOUSAND per day! That shut him UP quick!

 

[ujpest_doza]

Quote:
May i cheekily suggest that attendance figures are closely guarded secrets for Tax reasons?? eg fewer people reported as being there means lower reported income to the IRS means less tax paid.

Wrong, taxes are paid on general revenue not a body count.

It was a joke, but the body count should give eagle eyed tax inspectors a good idea of revenue streams.

By not disclosing body counts or hotel capacity used an unscrupulous financial controller can in theory manipulate reported profits and revenues in order to pay less corporation tax.

I know it isn't really feasible as we are talking about a company listed on Wall Street as opposed to a small private company and also because cash transactions, particularly for park tickets and hotel stays, are very rare.

 

[civileng68]

It was a joke, but the body count should give eagle eyed tax inspectors a good idea of revenue streams.

By not disclosing body counts or hotel capacity used an unscrupulous financial controller can in theory manipulate reported profits and revenues in order to pay less corporation tax.

I know it isn't really feasible as we are talking about a company listed on Wall Street as opposed to a small private company and also because cash transactions, particularly for park tickets and hotel stays, are very rare.

Also remember this, the state and I know the county are providing very healthy tax relaxations for Disney, to keep them happy in their current location (as many cities, counties and states do to bring in new business and keep it there).

 

[G8RFAN]

FL State sales tax is 6%. Counties can issue a sales surtax on top it it. In Orange, it is .5% since I believe 2001 and in Osceola it is 1% since 1990. Sales tax does impact the consumer which I did not know WDW was adjusting prices to reflect the difference, however, it does not make any significant impact as to the decision of infrastructure and where WDW decides to develop. Real estate taxes through each county's millage rate is the primary impact a County can manipulate to encourage or discourage businesses to develop and expand within a county in Florida without directly helping with bond issues. Bed taxes can also be manipulated by the counties to help fund public projects; however, these are also taxes are are passed directly to the consumer like sales taxes.

 

[G8RFAN]

It was a joke, but the body count should give eagle eyed tax inspectors a good idea of revenue streams.

By not disclosing body counts or hotel capacity used an unscrupulous financial controller can in theory manipulate reported profits and revenues in order to pay less corporation tax.

I know it isn't really feasible as we are talking about a company listed on Wall Street as opposed to a small private company and also because cash transactions, particularly for park tickets and hotel stays, are very rare.

I know it was tongue and cheek, but actually, since there are AP holders, and multi-day passes that significantly change the "per body" revenue vs the single day ticket purchaser, any auditor wouldn't know where to start to confirm through attendance what ticket booth revenues were unless Disney were to provide them with ticket type statistics scanned each day at the gate which once again relies on corporate governance. Plus, most of the time in the public capital sector, you see fudging to improve revenues and earnings, not to hide and minimize taxes unless some CFO's compensation package was designed around reducing tax exposure.

 

[disneyfanintn]

We were at Magic Kingdom on New Year's Eve. We actually took the bus over around 2pm. The bus driver told us there were 65,000 people in the park. While we were in the park, my son was trading pins with a manager and I stated the park wasn't as near as pack as I thought they would be, and he told me "Not yet anyway". The park did get much more crowded. The 11:50pm fireworks were packed, there were people sitting, laying and standing everywhere.

 

[Cinderumbrella]

While we were at MNSSHP this past Halloween a CM told us that for special ticket events like MNSSHP and MVMCP they will only sell 1/3 of maxium capactity and for Halloween they sold 22,000 tickets (and said that night was sold out) so if you do the math, 66,000 would be about right.