How many actually purchase seats for 1-yr-old?

[pednurse]

Restrained passengers in a plane have no better chances of surviving a crash compared to non-restrained passengers; whereas in a car your odds of survival are much higher if restrained. JMHO.

It actually has not much to do with a plane crash situation as most are rather catastrophic....it has mostly to do with turbulence, which I have experienced at times to be quite major (FA actually falling and being injured while up walking during flight and hitting unexpected turbulence). Same physics principles apply to the plane during turbulence as when a vehicle hits bumps in the road, whether they be large or small. I also have the same issue with school buses not having seat belts when kids can fall all over the place when the bus hits potholes around here. Sorry, but as a mom and a pediatric nurse, children's safety is a huge soapbox for me.....so when someone asks my opinion, I have no qualms in giving it. Now if I could only convince our local school system to install seat belts on the buses.....(my kids don't ride the bus, I drive them). Glad to hear your school system has them!

 

[jodifla]

It actually has not much to do with a plane crash situation as most are rather catastrophic....it has mostly to do with turbulence, which I have experienced at times to be quite major (FA actually falling and being injured while up walking during flight and hitting unexpected turbulence). Same physics principles apply to the plane during turbulence as when a vehicle hits bumps in the road, whether they be large or small. I also have the same issue with school buses not having seat belts when kids can fall all over the place when the bus hits potholes around here. Sorry, but as a mom and a pediatric nurse, children's safety is a huge soapbox for me.....so when someone asks my opinion, I have no qualms in giving it. Now if I could only convince our local school system to install seat belts on the buses.....(my kids don't ride the bus, I drive them). Glad to hear your school system has them!

I fly all the time, and have never experienced this incredible turbulence you talk about.

Can you post any stories about kids who have been injured because they are not in car seats? I can find none other than the Sioux City crash, which was about 15 years ago now, I think.

Seat belts on buses cause a whole other set of safety problems which is why most municipalities don't use them.

Will your family never ride a subway? Or a city bus? Or a shuttle bus?

 

[Stimpy]

Will your family never ride a subway? Or a city bus? Or a shuttle bus?

Ok, we are talking about airplanes here where people have the option of keeping their child safer in a child seat. It is not always possible to use a car seat, like on buses, subways etc. But if the option is there to help keep my children even a little bit safer, I will use it.

Why do people that are against buying an infant a airplane seat always seem to use that argument? Using that logic, would you not use a car seat in a car if it were cheaper (and not against the law)?

And yes, I fly often too. I have been in really really bad turbulence and have seen adults being bounced around. Consider yourself lucky that you haven't experienced that.

 

[pednurse]

Can you post any stories about kids who have been injured because they are not in car seats? I can find none other than the Sioux City crash, which was about 15 years ago now, I think.

As stated on the FAA's own website "In nonfatal accidents, in-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to airline passengers and flight attendants." Press release information from the FAA also states that from 1980 to 2004, there were 198 incidents of turbulence causing injuries (266 serious injuries and 3 deaths). Guess who was most likely to be injured.....people (including babies & children) who were not restrained using seat belts or safety seats. A research publication from the American Academy of Pediatrics (2001) reports "A child on the lap of an adult cannot be effectively restrained in a motor vehicle or aircraft crash. A child who travels on the lap of another occupant or unrestrained in a motor vehicle has a substantially greater risk of injury and death, compared with a restrained child. Hazards associated with the on-lap position are also well documented in aircraft crash investigations. Three children on the laps of adults were fatally injured and others nonfatally injured in the 1987 crash in Denver, CO, the 1989 crash in Sioux City, IA, and the 1994 crash in Charlotte, NC---which were all caused by turbulence. The NTSB has reported 2 crashes in which CSSs were used and provided protection to children." I could list many more as well, but will not lengthen this post more. You asked, I answered.

 

[Hannathy]

delete

 

[Hannathy]

Sorry about that I was doing 3 things at the same time and didn't mean to hit the submit button.

With your numbers it works out on average there were only about 11 people hurt a year in turbulence only 8 episodes of turbulence severe enough to cause injury a year. When you compare this to how many millions of flights there are a year and how many people fly a year it is an extremely small risk, backing up what another poster said and I agree with.

 

[jodifla]

As stated on the FAA's own website "In nonfatal accidents, in-flight turbulence is the leading cause of injuries to airline passengers and flight attendants." Press release information from the FAA also states that from 1980 to 2004, there were 198 incidents of turbulence causing injuries (266 serious injuries and 3 deaths). Guess who was most likely to be injured.....people (including babies & children) who were not restrained using seat belts or safety seats. A research publication from the American Academy of Pediatrics (2001) reports "A child on the lap of an adult cannot be effectively restrained in a motor vehicle or aircraft crash. A child who travels on the lap of another occupant or unrestrained in a motor vehicle has a substantially greater risk of injury and death, compared with a restrained child. Hazards associated with the on-lap position are also well documented in aircraft crash investigations. Three children on the laps of adults were fatally injured and others nonfatally injured in the 1987 crash in Denver, CO, the 1989 crash in Sioux City, IA, and the 1994 crash in Charlotte, NC---which were all caused by turbulence. The NTSB has reported 2 crashes in which CSSs were used and provided protection to children." I could list many more as well, but will not lengthen this post more. You asked, I answered.

Actually, this post proves my point. These were plane CRASHES, not just turbulence. The CRASHES killed the kids. Not the turbulence.

You left out a fact: There's a one in 8 million chance of being injured by turbulence on an airplane.

Not enough to worry about, in my book. And completely different from the stats regarding traveling in a car.

 

[thepeach80]

It was worth the $200 we're spending for Ilana to make sure she's safe and others are safe around her. It's also helpful to not have to hold her the entire flight as we have 3 kids to care for and only 2 adults.

Buses work on a different theory that makes it 'o.k.' to not have seatbelts, though not at such a young age. I am still VERY leary of taking the bus to get the parks etc, but will do so as statistically the amount of buses that crash in the US is super low. It's better to not have a seatbelt on a bus though than to have a lap only belt on a bus. Someone mentioned their school buses had seatbelts and I'm pretty sure they would be lap only would are not safe for anything but installing a carseat.

 

[all4fun]

I think something that is left out of the statistics posted by the FAA is that the only incidents they actually record are ones the require actual medical attention once the plane has landed. There are probably a lot more instances where unrestrained passengers had non-life threatening injuries that were "minor" than we realize. Sure, statistically you're pretty safe to not have a major injury or risk of death, but there's a greater risk of other types of injuries and the point is that minor injury (but still painful, nevertheless) might be prevented by using a car seat. I know when we flew w/ds it was also as much about his safety as it was about allowing us to have more room on a long flight. I knew we would all have been pretty miserable trying to hold a wiggly toddler for 6+hrs. And at that age, he also slept quite a bit in his car seat so IMO it was money well spent.

 

[Ronald Duck]

Well, it's been entertaining reading all your posts!

My daughter warned me when I started this thread that it might turn confrontational, and she was right. For what it's worth, as a statistician and a skeptical scientist I agree with those who aren't too concerned about an infant's safety on a plane when not belted in (at least relative to busses and cars). However, as a grandfather and father, my decision was to purchase the fare for my grandson, and it will be worth every penny in peace-of-mind for me and his parents!

Now, don't let me interrupt your arguments

 

[ruadisneyfan2]

Ok, we are talking about airplanes here where people have the option of keeping their child safer in a child seat. It is not always possible to use a car seat, like on buses, subways etc. But if the option is there to help keep my children even a little bit safer, I will use it.

Why do people that are against buying an infant a airplane seat always seem to use that argument? Using that logic, would you not use a car seat in a car if it were cheaper (and not against the law)?

And yes, I fly often too. I have been in really really bad turbulence and have seen adults being bounced around. Consider yourself lucky that you haven't experienced that.

I never said I was for or against buying a seat for a child under 2. It just seems that some comments sound like people who choose not to buy seats must not care about their child's safety. I was just wondering if the same people who pay for a plane seat for their baby to fly to WDW, turn around and carry their baby on the WDW buses and suddenly because it's a Disney bus then it's ok. You don't have to use the Disney bus. You could choose safety over conveniece and rent a car and use a proper car seat. Whether you're travelling by plane or road, it's a matter of safety vs. convenience (getting free Dis. transportation or a free plane ticket) and weighing the risks.
FWIW, I had planned on keeping my kids in a booster seat until at least age 6 long before there were even booster seat laws here. Our state law is booster until age 8 or 80 lbs whichever comes 1st and I'm all for it.

 

[Stimpy]

I never said I was for or against buying a seat for a child under 2. It just seems that some comments sound like people who choose not to buy seats must not care about their child's safety. I was just wondering if the same people who pay for a plane seat for their baby to fly to WDW, turn around and carry their baby on the WDW buses and suddenly because it's a Disney bus then it's ok. You don't have to use the Disney bus. You could choose safety over conveniece and rent a car and use a proper car seat. Whether you're travelling by plane or road, it's a matter of safety vs. convenience (getting free Dis. transportation or a free plane ticket) and weighing the risks.
FWIW, I had planned on keeping my kids in a booster seat until at least age 6 long before there were even booster seat laws here. Our state law is booster until age 8 or 80 lbs whichever comes 1st and I'm all for it.

Sorry, I did not intend to direct this comment at you or anyone personally. I was responding to the post right before mine. If you choose not to use a car seat on a plane, that is your choice to do so. I think everyone needs to make the choices they feel is best for their own families. I don't think badly of anyone who chooses to keep their child a lap baby.

And as a side note, I did respond about renting a car already. We do rent a car in order to avoid the buses as much as possible. The only time we use the Disney buses is to go to the MK. Plus the bus ride from our resort to the MK is a lot shorter than a 2.5 hour flight.

 

[tinkandpan]

We've always bought a seat for ourr kids. Honestly - it's not about the safety factor although that helps. It's all about not wanting them bouncing around on me for 3 hours!

 

[LuvTinkBell]

Actually, this post proves my point. These were plane CRASHES, not just turbulence. The CRASHES killed the kids. Not the turbulence.

You left out a fact: There's a one in 8 million chance of being injured by turbulence on an airplane.

Not enough to worry about, in my book. And completely different from the stats regarding traveling in a car.

I am a flight attendant, if chances are 1 in 8 million I have been flying too long . I have been injured in turbulence 3 times in my 14 years of flying. Thank goodness it did not warrant my needing medical attention. A flight I did not work, but my good friend did, hit bad turbulence which sent many to the hospital. The safety investigator got on and had tears in his eyes from all the blood on the ceiling of the airplane. They hit while the seatbelt sign was off, and many people were unrestrained at the time.

My husband and I flew ONE time, home from Philly to Chicago, and had to hold DD on our laps, and check her carseat. We got the last 2 seats on the airplane or had to stay another day. There was a snowstorm coming so we could've been stranded for days. I was a nervous wreck the whole time, but with no other flight available and I knew the flights the next day were pretty full, and if the snow hit (which it did) we both would have missed work for a few days. (We travel on free passes, and you have to take what you get, and the ticket agents used to try to NOT give my kids seats when they were under 2 and I insisted, sorry to those that got left at the gate...)

During turbulence we secure the carts, the galleys, the coffee pots....so why not that which is most precious to us? Our babies! I'd love to see it go into effect that ALL passengers must have a seat.

My girls are 5 and 8, they both still use big kid boosters with backs (my 8 yr. old just hit 40 pounds a few months ago, she is tiny) So this year when we fly we also have a baby boy and will lug 3 carseats. Although the ones for the girls are not permitted on the airplane as they don't have 5 pt. harnesses and use the car seatbelt so they get checked. And I am off work on a voluntary layoff so I will be paying full price for all 5 of us to go as I have no flight benefits right now. We want to go to Hawaii but thanks to the free flights all these years the girls want another trip to Disney and we've gone every year since the 8 yr old was 2.

I agree the risk of being injured is low. But I have been in turbulence where it is hard to hold onto something and that was bad. I would hate to see worse turbulence. I also feel my kids understood they had to sit in their carseats better than sitting in the aircraft seat, and it made them easier to deal with.

 

[jessica52877]

We flew once when I did not buy DS a seat, he was 9 months old at the time and all was fine. He went right to sleep from gate to gate. If he was much older or bigger, I would have bought a seat, and did the next time. I do not think it is safer if there is turbulance, but if the plane were to crash, IF you were allowed to hold onto him I feel he would have a chance.

When I was a child, about 8, a plane crashed near Chicago, the only survivor was an infant, found a couple of days later sandwiched between her mother bending over. It was reported that that was why she lived.

That is a big IF though, now a days I believe they make you put your infant on the floor. Had I Known that when ds was young I am not sure if I would have carried him on as a lap child.

 

[Hannathy]

That is a big IF though, now a days I believe they make you put your infant on the floor. Had I Known that when ds was young I am not sure if I would have carried him on as a lap child.

NO THEY DON'T!!!! You hold them facing you with your arm braced across them as you lean forward.

 

[jessica52877]

NO THEY DON'T!!!! You hold them facing you with your arm braced across them as you lean forward.

That is so great to know! I was watching a documentary on a plane that crashed (well emergency landed, caught fire, etc and about 1/2 the people survived) and that is what was reported from the flight attendants. That makes me feel so much better as the thought of an infant on the floor is atrocious! I wonder if it was because it wasn't in the US.

 

[grlpwrd]

I won't partake in this incessant argument on these boards about carseat safety on airplanes, but I will just say I have worked for 2 different airlines plus my dh is a senior design engineer who started his career at Boeing. Sorry and I mentioned this before in other threads, but I don't give much credence to opinions on a message board when it comes to my kids' safety. No offense to all...

We have always bought a ticket for our kids when they were/are under 2. Always have, always will.

There is now the CARES airline-safe harness for toddlers. This harness fits around airplane seats and through the lap belt to form a 5-point harness to keep your child safe on the plane and is used for kids from 22 to 44 lbs.

My littler one has been riding in her Sit n' Stroll car seat/stroller combo. It was pricey, but we have used it for many trips. It's wonderful because she is more agreeable in her carseat, she is safer (we don't have the recalled one), and it quickly changes from carseat to stroller and vice versa.

Your child, your choice.

 

[Stimpy]

There is now the CARES airline-safe harness for toddlers. This harness fits around airplane seats and through the lap belt to form a 5-point harness to keep your child safe on the plane and is used for kids from 22 to 44 lbs.

Your child, your choice.

We have the CARES and LOVE it!!! We got it right when it came out and have used it several times already. We've had a flight attendants ask us about it & they thought it was great.

 

[Nanu57v]

We've bought a seat for DD each time. We got a great deal for United on an infant rate (half the adult SALE price), and with Southwest we just used the DING fare...I didn't know about the free seat though...actually the agent told me that I couldn't get my money back if the flight wasn't full It was a piece of mind thing. What if something happened and then I'd feel really guilty for trying to save some money.