How is MK with no Legacy FP?

[bcrook]

If Disney's goal is to get people in and out the parks as quickly as possible, and to dissuade them from park hopping, they sure are doing some strange things to hide it.

Like offering FP+ options with return times scattered through the day. And expanding the bus station at the MK to accommodate direct buses between MK and DHS and DAK.

It is enigmatic. Not a clear message being sent.

Do they want customers to buy no expiration tickets or not? Can't find that option on their ticket page, but those of us around here know it is available.
Do they want off site customers to feel equal or not?
Do the want hopping or not? based on your comments it appears yes, but simply not allowing FP+ to work with hopping appears not
Do they want people to make ADRs or not? Those credit card guarantees definitely cause people to pause and think about it?
Do they want me in the park all day? Or do they prefer me at the the pool?

I am no longer sure what they want.

 

[bcrook]

From talking to some of the cms on the ground on Friday..."we" know more than they do.

They don't just need more staff, they need more "expert" staff...and not just in the fp+ kiosk lines. Their attraction cms manning the fp lines need more and better training, too. Heard attraction cms telling guests that only those with mbs could book fp+ at least a half dozen times. I would try to interject...but sometimes they just weren't getting it.

As an aside.(sort of)..craziest conversation during our stay? Talking to a couple n line, waiting to see Tink and Peri at mk last Sunday (the 12th)the dad said he was really glad they had not sprung for the extra $100 to use the fast pass system( they were resort guests). I spent the rest of our 10 min wait explaining how the system really worked, explaining fp+, and, since they has kttw cards, how they could use those instead. I also explained the fp+ only a ak, and the changes coming to mk on the 14th. He completely "got it" in that short time, and was very thankful for the explanation and very confused as to why he didn't get similar info from Disney.

The point of all this: if disney is this bad at educating their guests on a system that's been around for a LONG time...I shudder to see the mess that fp+ is for awhile.

It was terrible in October, the CMs had very little training... It seems this would be the easiest thing to fix.

 

[wisblue]

It is enigmatic. Not a clear message being sent.

Do they want customers to buy no expiration tickets or not? Can't find that option on their ticket page, but those of us around here know it is available.
Do they want off site customers to feel equal or not?
Do the want hopping or not? based on your comments it appears yes, but simply not allowing FP+ to work with hopping appears not
Do they want people to make ADRs or not? Those credit card guarantees definitely cause people to pause and think about it?
Do they want me in the park all day? Or do they prefer me at the the pool?

I am no longer sure what they want.

I think it's fruitless to try to draw conclusions while this is in transition and changing regularly. While the folks on these boards who are following the blow by blow and analyzing every step think things are moving slowly, if you take a step back and look at where it is now as compared to just a few months ago, there have been some very significant changes.

I suspect there will be a lot more changes in the next few months.

 

[Angel Ariel]

If someone can get 3 FPs at MK for any attractions and for times of their choosing, that is worth a little time in line. In the glory days of paper FP I saw people wait in long lines (10 minutes and longer) to get FP for just one attraction, like TSMM, Soarin, Test Track, or Space Mountain right at park opening. People apparently thought those waits were worth it to get a FP for those attractions. I waited in one once to get a second ride on TSMM shortly after it opened. Waiting 20 minutes or so to get 3 FPs at times of your choosing sounds like a better deal.

I can honestly say that I have never waited in a FP- line longer than 4-5 people deep (and even 4-5 deep happened to us rarely). Not at WDW or DLR

ETA: And to address the point brought up later, we did hit headliners as soon as we entered the park ,though we were not always there exactly for rope drop...depended on how well DD woke up and ate breakfast. I think these last 2 trips we probably averaged getting there by 30 mins after opening...we made RD ceremony once or twice (and it was a very rushed morning to do so).

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think Disney wants offsite to be physically in the park to be able to book FPs. Even if it means that they have to expend more labor costs to accommodate them. It probably has to do with availability. I don't think non-AP offsite is ever going to get prebooking abilities through the app.

I can understand Disney wanting offsiters to be in the park, but for the life of me I cannot understand why this precludes them from allowing those offsiters to use the app.

Disney's first mobile app, Mobile Magic, required you to be physically in the parks in order to see the actual wait times for the rides. It used your cell phone's GPS to determine your location, and if you weren't in the park all you saw was something like "ride now" or "moderate wait" or "long wait" (not the exact words, but the idea). If you were in the park, you saw the actual wait times.

There is no reason that Disney's app shouldn't be able to be programmed to recognize when someone is in the park and allow them to use the FP+ portion of the app.

 

[Laketravis]

The suits are under extreme pressure to get this rolled out, but the basic elements have not changed once they were introduced:

Limit 3
Same park
No attraction twice
Tiers
Only onsite guests can pre-book

The only thing that has changed has been the discontinuation of paper FP's park by park.

 

[wisblue]

The suits are under extreme pressure to get this rolled out, but the basic elements have not changed once they were introduced:

Limit 3
Same park
No attraction twice
Tiers
Only onsite guests can pre-book

The only thing that has changed has been the discontinuation of paper FP's park by park.

I wouldn't expect those elements to change during this part of the transition process.

The transition so far has been to gradually get more guests using FP+, then fewer having access to paper FP, then removing paper FP altogether (park by park) and giving offsite guests access to FP+ at the parks. It is creating a gradual increase in the load on the FP+ system. If people think this has been confusing, it would only be worse if some of these other elements were changed frequently at the same time.

Is it your opinion that, because these elements haven't changed in the last two months, they will all be this way 6 months or a year from now? Because of ride capacity I expect that tiering and no attraction twice are likely to stay. The others, maybe not. As I said before, I think offsite guests being able to pre- book will be the next to change, and that that will be gradual too.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

[NMAmy]

I don't think they care if you leave the park after your FPs are done. Of course, feel free to go eat, enjoy a parade, soak in the atmosphere. That is exactly the point IMO. The more people who stop riding rides, the more room there is for other people, and the less overcrowding there is, and the less they need to build more attractions. To me this seems like a system to get people to spend LESS time in the parks, or at least on the rides. They don't want you there from rope drop to closing. Spend more time golfing and swimming and bowling and yada yada yada all of the other great offerings at their resorts!

I think they may find they're mistaken. We've gone once a year or more since 2000. This whole mess HAS changed the way I've planned my upcoming trip--I switched from 2 rooms at Pop to 2 rooms at Shades of Green. I switched from 10 days at Disney to three days at Universal and 7 days at Disney. I'm renting a car for the length of stay for the first time ever. If we see lines like I've seen posted in some other threads, we'll hit the early EMH and then leave before lunch for the day. I've got some ADR's set up but I'm quite happy to cancel the lot if I see a mess like has been shown in other threads. We'll eat off-site and possibly come back for fireworks but we won't be spending any money in the parks. They've ticked me off and I refuse to give them more money to reward them for an inferior experience.

And, if it's awful, we've already got a plan B for next year's spring trip which doesn't include Orlando at all.

 

[catne]

I wouldn't expect those elements to change during this part of the transition process.

The transition so far has been to gradually get more guests using FP+, then fewer having access to paper FP, then removing paper FP altogether (park by park) and giving offsite guests access to FP+ at the parks. It is creating a gradual increase in the load on the FP+ system. If people think this has been confusing, it would only be worse if some of these other elements were changed frequently at the same time.

Is it your opinion that, because these elements haven't changed in the last two months, they will all be this way 6 months or a year from now? Because of ride capacity I expect that tiering and no attraction twice are likely to stay. The others, maybe not. As I said before, I think offsite guests being able to pre- book will be the next to change, and that that will be gradual too.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Sorry if you've already answered this...but do you really think they will ever allow off-site guests to prebook FP+

I thought the pre-booking was just going to be a Disney-hotel-guest perk. And everyone else would "get" to book in the park day-of.

Not arguing or disagreeing, just wondering. This is the first time I've seen someone mention the possibility that off-site will get to pre-book FP+ also.

I would love it if it really happens that way. We just had our first off-site stay in more than 20 years the past October (at a 5 Bed/5 Bath McMansion. It was ridiculously cheap compared to what the same money would have been at Disney...got 2800 sq ft house with attached pool & hot tub for the cost of 3 value rooms we would have needed for our group of 5 adults.)

Figured that was our first & only venture off site since they started the FP+ pre-booking for hotel guests. We didn't want the dregs of FP+, nor did we want to waste park time standing in line at FP+ kiosks.

 

[patty57]

Sorry if you've already answered this...but do you really think they will ever allow off-site guests to prebook FP+

I thought the pre-booking was just going to be a Disney-hotel-guest perk. And everyone else would "get" to book in the park day-of.

Not arguing or disagreeing, just wondering. This is the first time I've seen someone mention the possibility that off-site will get to pre-book FP+ also.

People have mentioned it, but it's speculation only. No one really knows anything except Disney...and they're not saying.

 

[wisblue]

Sorry if you've already answered this...but do you really think they will ever allow off-site guests to prebook FP+

I thought the pre-booking was just going to be a Disney-hotel-guest perk. And everyone else would "get" to book in the park day-of.

Not arguing or disagreeing, just wondering. This is the first time I've seen someone mention the possibility that off-site will get to pre-book FP+ also.

I would love it if it really happens that way. We just had our first off-site stay in more than 20 years the past October (at a 5 Bed/5 Bath McMansion. It was ridiculously cheap compared to what the same money would have been at Disney...got 2800 sq ft house with attached pool & hot tub for the cost of 3 value rooms we would have needed for our group of 5 adults.)

Figured that was our first & only venture off site since they started the FP+ pre-booking for hotel guests. We didn't want the dregs of FP+, nor did we want to waste park time standing in line at FP+ kiosks.

Yes, that is my opinion, or theory, or whatever you want to call it, but it is nothing more than that. At this point, most everyone's opinion on something like this is based on speculation more than anything else.

But, here's the main reason I feel this way. Several people on these boards have cited Disney executives saying that one of their main objectives with the whole MyMagic + project is to encourage guests to spend as much of their trip as possible on Disney property. One way to do that is to get guests to buy multiple day Disney tickets in advance, and a way to encourage them to do that is to tell them that once they have tickets, they can establish an MDE account, link those tickets to their accounts, and make FP+ reservations. Disney can use their relationships with travel agents and area hotels to get this message to their customers.

I don't expect offsite guests to be able to make reservations as early as onsite guests, but it would still be before they arrive at the park. Maybe 30 days for offsite compared to 60 for onsite.

The other thing is that the system being used right now with legions of offsite guests trying to make FP+ reservations is unnecessarily labor intensive and also inconvenient and aggravating for guests. I see it as a temporary stopgap only. I think they want the kiosks in the park to be used for people to make changes, not for hundreds of guests to inundate as soon as the park opens.

Time will tell if I am right about this. But I will be surprised if today's model is the final one for offsite guests.

 

[jco_direwolf]

I can honestly say that I have never waited in a FP- line longer than 4-5 people deep (and even 4-5 deep happened to us rarely). Not at WDW or DLR

In June there was a QUEUE (not people milling around but a real queue) to get into the FP queue for TSMM that was all the way down past stroller parking, they even had ropes up and a CM with a "End of Line" sign.

Just saying count your self lucky. Yes typically Legacy FP queue wasn't more than 5-10 people.

 

[crazymomof4]

From what I've read, you need to be staying on property to use the app. Off-site guests have to go to a kiosk to get the FP+'s.

Now that I think about it, that seems like it could take an off-site guest forever to accomplish. Even if you are near the front of that line, think about it, you have 3 people in front of you saying, "No, 3pm isn't a good time for us to ride Splash, can you make it for 5 instead? No 5pm ones left? Maybe 5:30? Hmmm, well nevermind, switch the Buzz Lightyear one to 5, and make the Splash one for noon. Splash is booked at noon too? Oh gosh, let me think for a minute...."

Oh yes! I can so see this happening! People aren't concerned with those behind them in line. For ex. woman in front of me at Walmart returns desk. She is asked for the receipt for the item being returned and tossed a fistful of receipts on the counter and says, "I think it's in one of these".

 

[Laketravis]

If Disney intends to provide offsite guests the ability to reserve FP's without being in the park, I can't think of any data or metrics they would acquire by first requiring them to be in the park that they couldn't measure by letting them reserve outside of the park.

Unless they are measuring guest tolerance levels for long lines, every other mathematical, operational, and statistical metric does not require on site same day presence.

Flipping a few software switches would allow these guests to link their tickets to an MDE account and begin reserving FP's like everybody else. Make the window different if you need to, but what can't you 'measure' that way that requires the guest to be in the park?

That is why I don't see this changing. It would have been much easier to just roll them into the current app and existing process.

 

[Mad Hattered]

If Disney intends to provide offsite guests the ability to reserve FP's without being in the park, I can't think of any data or metrics they would acquire by first requiring them to be in the park that they couldn't measure by letting them reserve outside of the park.

Unless they are measuring guest tolerance levels for long lines, every other mathematical, operational, and statistical metric does not require on site same day presence.

Flipping a few software switches would allow these guests to link their tickets to an MDE account and begin reserving FP's like everybody else. Make the window different if you need to, but what can't you 'measure' that way that requires the guest to be in the park?

That is why I don't see this changing. It would have been much easier to just roll them into the current app and existing process.

Yep.

 

[magicbob]

If Disney intends to provide offsite guests the ability to reserve FP's without being in the park, I can't think of any data or metrics they would acquire by first requiring them to be in the park that they couldn't measure by letting them reserve outside of the park.

Unless they are measuring guest tolerance levels for long lines, every other mathematical, operational, and statistical metric does not require on site same day presence.

Flipping a few software switches would allow these guests to link their tickets to an MDE account and begin reserving FP's like everybody else. Make the window different if you need to, but what can't you 'measure' that way that requires the guest to be in the park?

That is why I don't see this changing. It would have been much easier to just roll them into the current app and existing process.

Now you're just being absurd. Everyone knows that this is only a test and that the final product will look nothing like the test. They need to test the things they are not going to implement to verify that they don't work. This will affirm that they made the right choices in the secret plan they are holding back for implementation. The perfection that is FP+ doesn't need to be tested. It will be fabulous. WDW is purposefully using terrible conditions during the test only to make the final product look that much better when it rolls out. And besides, things aren't as bad as recent trip reports make it seem. They just need to make a few tweaks and then it will be perfect.

 

[Mad Hattered]

Now you're just being absurd. Everyone knows that this is only a test and that the final product will look nothing like the test. They need to test the things they are not going to implement. The perfection that is FP+ doesn't need to be tested. It will be fabulous. WDW is purposefully using terrible conditions during the test only to make the final product look that much better when it rolls out. And besides, things aren't as bad as recent trip reports make it seem. They just need to make a few tweaks and then it will be perfect.

Well....then there is that.

 

[crazymomof4]

Stand in line to get into a park to stand in line to get a reservation to stand in line to ride an attraction

That's exactly what I've been thinking! On what planet does this equate to a pleasant vacation experience? Recently we've only stayed onsite, but we used to occassionally take a 2 week stay in the Orlando area and stay off-site. We would do various area attractions including WDW. We planned on doing this type of off-site trip again in a few years. But that won't be happening if this is what off-site guests have to go through! I hope they have plans in place to improve this situation for off-site people!

 

[Mad Hattered]

That's exactly what I've been thinking! On what planet does this equate to a pleasant vacation experience? Recently we've only stayed onsite, but we used to occassionally take a 2 week stay in the Orlando area and stay off-site. We would do various area attractions including WDW. We planned on doing this type of off-site trip again in a few years. But that won't be happening if this is what off-site guests have to go through! I hope they have plans in place to improve this situation for off-site people!

Pssssst.....they don't want you to see Harry Potter, the new Harry Potter or the 3 new rides Universal will open before Avatar opens. That is not speculation, BTW.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I think they may find they're mistaken. We've gone once a year or more since 2000. This whole mess HAS changed the way I've planned my upcoming trip--I switched from 2 rooms at Pop to 2 rooms at Shades of Green. I switched from 10 days at Disney to three days at Universal and 7 days at Disney. I'm renting a car for the length of stay for the first time ever. If we see lines like I've seen posted in some other threads, we'll hit the early EMH and then leave before lunch for the day. I've got some ADR's set up but I'm quite happy to cancel the lot if I see a mess like has been shown in other threads. We'll eat off-site and possibly come back for fireworks but we won't be spending any money in the parks. They've ticked me off and I refuse to give them more money to reward them for an inferior experience.

And, if it's awful, we've already got a plan B for next year's spring trip which doesn't include Orlando at all.

I agree, they may very well be mistaken on this one. And I think there are a lot of people thinking like you...If I am going to get less, then I might as well spend less on it.