How Involved is your DS/DD in the College Search Process?

[golfgal]

OP - what about The Ohio State ? I understand that for Ohio residents it is cheaper than out of state residents..


When DS#1 was looking ( in the Midwest) he went Cornell (IA) , Beloit ( WIS), Bradley ( ILL) Earham ( IN) , Knox ( ILL) Roanoke (VA).. all small schools and all private.. very expensive.. but the merit aid was close to tuition.. In fact because the U of ILL in Urbana is so expensive ( $30,000 + for 2009 -20100) for instate students and gives very little aid to them .. the smaller and private schools with merit aid was cheaper..

Thank you for posting this, I was beginning to think I was going crazy that NO ONE else has figured this out. .

 

[MrsPete]

Mrs. Pete -- Your daughter shouldn't be so sure that she would turn down Carolina.

Nah, I know my kid. She claims (right now as a sophomore) that she wants to apply just so she'll know whether she could've been admitted to the school that attracts soooo many students, but she doesn't want to go there. I think she'll do exactly that: Be admitted and turn them down.

I did something similar: I applied to one extremely prestigious school -- knowing full well I couldn't afford it, wouldn't even have been able to buy a plane ticket to get there -- but I know that I was admitted. I liked knowing that I was good enough to be admitted, even though I couldn't go.

I think Davidson is even harder to get in than the statistics indicate. Only the very top students would consider it

Sure, many of our students self-select out of Davidson. I can see that.

Getting a little off-topic: I don't encourage my students to apply EVERYWHERE willy-nilly. Using that "shotgun approach" means that they haven't put enough thought into what they really want from college. Instead, I encourage them to pick no more than 3 realistic schools -- schools that meet their needs, schools they can afford, schools where they're likely to be admitted -- and apply there. Then, if they want, I encourage them to apply to ONE dream school, one stretch school; Davidson isn't tops on a whole lot of students' lists. It just isn't on their radars.

Yeah, With a lot of safety schools, you don't have essays or the such, you just fill out the application and pay the fee. I remember when I was applying to University of California schools, it was just one application and you marked every box of schools you'd consider.

And don't forget that a community college can be a safety school. Students can pretty much wait 'til after graduation and still be admitted to the ones in our area.

Something is not right with this story. I don't think your friend was telling you everything. Yeah, I have read college confidential way too much...

Yeah, I noticed that too, but it was a friend-of-a-friend story, and I figure something was lost in the translation. Kind of like my aunt bragging about my cousin being awarded a Morehead Scholarship. He used that scholarship at App State. Yeah . . . sure he did.

Well obviously but if you look at the scholarships I posted, they are automatic scholarships based simply on grades-renewable yearly. At St. Ben's the $16,000 is about 1/2 of the years costs so that is pretty substantial just for doing well in high school and walking through the door at that college, heck, you don't even have to apply for that one, you are automatically given that if you qualify based on your high school transcript--which is exactly what I have been saying all along. The aid given by the private schools far exceeds that of state schools and if you are a good student you can expect to pay little to nothing for college around here.

Compare that to NC: An in-state student can attend one of the UNC-system schools for 8K-12K per year (that's tuition & fees, dorm room & meal plan). Our public schools are an excellent value; our private school vary, but none of them dole out scholarships in the manner you're describing.

A link with NC college costs from 2007 -- first one I saw; it's slightly out of date, but not tremendously so: http://eslmi03.esc.state.nc.us/soicc/planning/c2c.htm#PUB4

WHERE do private schools in your area get the money? I expect they count upon their graduates to fund these scholarship funds after graduation? Endowment pretty much means "gifts from our previous graduates".

There are plenty of private colleges here that pretty much automatically give good students big scholarships, but these schools are not nearly on the level of our top state and private schools . . . If you are a good student here, you might pay little or nothing at a so-so private school. How many good students want that when they could go to one of the best state universities in the country?.

Exactly. The private schools here that give out big-money scholarships are the ones I'm not particularly enthusiastic about my daughters attending. If they were offered a big-time scholarship to Duke or Wake Forest, I'd be thrilled -- those are excellent schools! But that's not what happens -- not here. The private schools that give out big money scholarships (to a very, very small number of students) are the borderline schools: Wingate, Lenoir Rhyne, etc. I would not particularly be happy for my daughters to attend one of those schools. My oldest daughter, a sophomore, has always had a GPA way over 4.0 along with excellent extra-currriculars and demonstrated leadership, and I'd rather see her at one of the UNC-system schools with a couple small scholarships rather than at one of those borderline schools on a full scholarship. She'll come out with much more in the long run.

The problem with a school providing all "demonstrated need" is that those of us with decent incomes and savings don't qualify for much. I'm not sure the rest of our family would be able to eat if we were contributing what the formulas say we can to their education. To use golfgirl's link to Carleton as an example . . . a family that makes $100,000 a year is supposed to pay $20,000 after the $30,000 in grants and loans. After taxes, insurance, a minimal 401K contribution, etc., someone who makes $100,000 a year is going to clear about $60,000. If 1/3 of that goes to one child's college expenses, that leaves just $40,000 per year for the rest of the family.

Having started saving for my daughter's educations since before the first one was conceived, I understand where you're coming from: It's unfair to withhold money from those who scrimped and saved, while giving it to families who didn't work as hard. But the obvious answer to the "we wouldn't be able to eat" is that they don't expect you to pay that "estimated family contribution" out of this year's salary -- they expect that you've been saving it for years in anticipation of the child going to college.

However, having been the child of parents who didn't save, I am very grateful that financial aid money was there for me when my parents won't. It didn't completely fund my education, but it along with some scholarships and a whole lot of hard work put a debt-free education with my grasp. Since then I've paid that amount back many, many times over in taxes, so I was a good investment for the government.

In reference to your bolded quote, in my experience this is not true. I am on the East coast, and the better schools seemed to give out much less money. This may be due to geographic/regional differences, I'm not sure. Perhaps because so many people want to go to east coast schools anyway, they have less incentive to entice students?

I'm also in the East, and over the years I've seen very few students fall into the "private school was cheaper for me" camp. You may have hit the nail on the head with your guess that more people want to go to school here, and they DON"T NEED to entice students to attend.

 

[MrsPete]

Thank you for posting this, I was beginning to think I was going crazy that NO ONE else has figured this out. .

What I've figured out is that this is true for small areas of the country -- not my area.

 

[tekmom]

Agree. My son has been accepted to four of the eight schools he has applied to already. Two were private with $20,000 per year plus honors college and $20,000 per year, respectively. The other two were public. Still waiting on four, two public, two private. If he gets accepted to the other two publics, he's taking one of those because they are just much better schools than the two privates that he's been offered merit scholarships from...and cheaper. East coast here, also.

 

[tar heel]

I think state universities in Minnesota must be more expensive than they are in North Carolina!

Mrs. Pete -- I hate to say it, but the state universities now start at pretty close to the high end of your range -- Chapel Hill lists over $15,000 as what is required now. Room and board is more than tuition and fees, too. I feel like I'm an expert on this since I've been paying tuition to North Carolina state universities every semester since fall 2002 -- three different schools and sometimes two at a time. The fees do vary a good bit -- my middle son started at Western Carolina, which is one of the least expensive. Tuition and fees have gone up every single year, too. I have to keep reminding myself that is still an incredible bargain.

 

[tar heel]

Mrs. Pete -- I should have added that the state schools that are $12,000-$1,500 are the top ones, and I think these are the ones both your children and mine are considering.

 

[golfgal]

I think state universities in Minnesota must be more expensive than they are in North Carolina!

Mrs. Pete -- I hate to say it, but the state universities now start at pretty close to the high end of your range -- Chapel Hill lists over $15,000 as what is required now. Room and board is more than tuition and fees, too. I feel like I'm an expert on this since I've been paying tuition to North Carolina state universities every semester since fall 2002 -- three different schools and sometimes two at a time. The fees do vary a good bit -- my middle son started at Western Carolina, which is one of the least expensive. Tuition and fees have gone up every single year, too. I have to keep reminding myself that is still an incredible bargain.

The costs for next year at the state schools with room/board are about $17,500, University of MN is close to $20K, which would be more comparable to the University of NC.

Mrs. Pete, yes, the schools around here get a lot of money from alumni and from various foundations-3M has a HUGE one called the McKnight Foundation and they are VERY generous. There are several others around here like that as well. Most of the privates schools around here have huge endowment funds.

 

[tar heel]

Our best private schools also have big endowments as does UNC-Chapel Hill. Both Duke and Wake Forest are on the list of top endowments. When you consider endowment on a per student basis, Davidson also gets on that list. None of these schools do any kind of automatic scholarships. Davidson does meet the "demontrated financial need," though.

This is an interesting discussion, but our family decided after lots of research with our oldest that we were doing state universities. Our middle son didn't look at any private schools, and I doubt our youngest will (although my fil is pushing his alma mater).

 

[golfgal]

I think state universities in Minnesota must be more expensive than they are in North Carolina!

Mrs. Pete -- I hate to say it, but the state universities now start at pretty close to the high end of your range -- Chapel Hill lists over $15,000 as what is required now. Room and board is more than tuition and fees, too. I feel like I'm an expert on this since I've been paying tuition to North Carolina state universities every semester since fall 2002 -- three different schools and sometimes two at a time. The fees do vary a good bit -- my middle son started at Western Carolina, which is one of the least expensive. Tuition and fees have gone up every single year, too. I have to keep reminding myself that is still an incredible bargain.

Our best private schools also have big endowments as does UNC-Chapel Hill. Both Duke and Wake Forest are on the list of top endowments. When you consider endowment on a per student basis, Davidson also gets on that list. None of these schools do any kind of automatic scholarships. Davidson does meet the "demontrated financial need," though.

This is an interesting discussion, but our family decided after lots of research with our oldest that we were doing state universities. Our middle son didn't look at any private schools, and I doubt our youngest will (although my fil is pushing his alma mater).

They do have quite a few non-need based scholarships available though:

http://studentaid.unc.edu/studentaid/type/ssa_scholarships.html

It looks like a lot of these are pretty automatic-meaning there is no separate application for a lot of them-just need to meet the requirements.

I just looked up the endowment for where Dh and I went, the combined endowment for the schools is about 180 million for about 6000 students combined.

 

[Anne34]

I agree with the midwest being cheaper to go private with a good scholarship. In Illinois -- the flagship is about $29,000 (instate!) with the smaller schools running about $16-18,000. My dd is looking out of state for less than the flagship here in IL. It will be cheaper!

I grew up in WI and our state universities (except Madison) were very reasonable. I know they are still in the $16,000 range. There are many more options there that are all really good.

Good luck to all the students and parents. My our DD16 is still looking and going on college visits. She has been to many recruiting days at her school and has a good idea what she wants to do. Hopefully she will get into her first choice.

 

[MrsPete]

I think state universities in Minnesota must be more expensive than they are in North Carolina!

Mrs. Pete -- I hate to say it, but the state universities now start at pretty close to the high end of your range -- Chapel Hill lists over $15,000 as what is required now. Room and board is more than tuition and fees, too. I feel like I'm an expert on this since I've been paying tuition to North Carolina state universities every semester since fall 2002 -- three different schools and sometimes two at a time. The fees do vary a good bit -- my middle son started at Western Carolina, which is one of the least expensive. Tuition and fees have gone up every single year, too. I have to keep reminding myself that is still an incredible bargain.

Well, my website was 2007 prices -- I'd expect them to be a little higher. On that website Chapel Hill was listed at a hair over 12K, so that's believable. It IS an incredible bargain compared to other parts of the country and considering that this allows your child to support himself well for the rest of his life.

 

[golfgal]

Well, my website was 2007 prices -- I'd expect them to be a little higher. On that website Chapel Hill was listed at a hair over 12K, so that's believable. It IS an incredible bargain compared to other parts of the country and considering that this allows your child to support himself well for the rest of his life.

The school DS is attending next fall jumped $3000 from this year to next year-from $14,500 to $17,500. With funding going down and costs going up a lot of states have raised prices quite a bit. There was a post here a month or so ago about California's price increase (which is still less then we pay here).

 

[MrsPete]

This is an interesting discussion, but our family decided after lots of research with our oldest that we were doing state universities.

Our family has reached the same conclusion. My husband and I have already decided upon a few "rules" for college payments:

We can pay for a 4-year public university. We cannot fund a 5th year, nor can we pay for a private school. If they need a 5th year, they must figure out how to do that on their own. If they choose a more expensive private school, we'll pay the amount that we would've paid towards a UNC-school, and they must figure out how to pay the rest.

We will pay all fees, uniforms (one of our daughters'll do student nursing eventually). We expect them to pay for books out of summer earnings.

Our daughters have grades that may qualify them for in-state tuition in South Carolina (and other states) schools. If this happens, that would give them more options. One of our daughters is very interested in Clemson, so we'll be pursuing this.

We will pay for a dorm room or suite/meal plan OR if they choose the school near our home, we'll buy them a new car for the commute. We cannot fund both. We will not pay for an off-campus apartment; if they want an apartment (after freshman year), we will give them the cost of the dorm, and they can figure out the rest.

If they earn significant scholarships, then we'll use the college money we've saved towards buying them a new car.

We expect them to work part-time during college for their own spending money.

 

[QueenRocks]

We did the Virginia Prepaid Tuition Plan for our 3 children. They will attend state colleges and luckily Virginia has excellent state schools. Princeton review just released their list of the best value colleges and for state colleges, UVA was # 1 and Virginia Tech #8. Also in the top 100 were William and Mary, James Madison, and Mary Washington. Our oldest is a freshman at VT. My senior in high school does not want to go away to college, and we will get him a car for commuting since does not want to stay on campus.

 

[bluesaturn]

They do have quite a few non-need based scholarships available though:

http://studentaid.unc.edu/studentaid/type/ssa_scholarships.html

It looks like a lot of these are pretty automatic-meaning there is no separate application for a lot of them-just need to meet the requirements.

I just looked up the endowment for where Dh and I went, the combined endowment for the schools is about 180 million for about 6000 students combined.

I don't think these are automatic. I was under the impression that merit scholarships at UNC-Chapel Hill were very competitive, because it is such a good school. I would love to hear the scoop from MrsPete or tarheel.

 

[allison443]

I don't think these are automatic. I was under the impression that merit scholarships at UNC-Chapel Hill were very competitive, because it is such a good school. I would love to hear the scoop from MrsPete or tarheel.

I just read the linked page..they are not automatic. Competition is very intense for these scholarships at UNC.

 

[bluesaturn]

I just read the linked page..they are not automatic. Competition is very intense for these scholarships at UNC.

That's what I thought based on what I read in the link and everything I know about Chapel Hill. But I hate to assume. Thanks

 

[DVCLiz]

I think by automatic she meant not needing to be applied for separately. Believe me, every dime of merit money that Chapel Hill awards is FIERCELY COMPETITIVE.

 

[Julia M]

My oldest ds is a senior and I have found the application process to be difficult....mostly because of ds!!

He has been admitted to Boise State and received a WUE scholarship, which is nice. We are waiting on CA schools. We didn't even bother with the UC's or upper tier Cal States-he just doesn't have a chance there.

DH is very agaisnt ds going away, because he feels he is too immature, lacks initiative and is shy. I feel like CA schools are self destructing-kids can't get classes, tuition is rising and so on.

Well, I guess it will all sort itself out

 

[tar heel]

As far as merit scholarships go at UNC-CH, they are extremely competitive and there are no automatics. The Morehead-Cain is one of the most competitive scholarships in thecountry -- it covers summer experiences as well as educational expenses. My son applied to Carolina as a National Merit Finalist but was not offered any scholarship $. If he had actually enrolled, he would have gotten the $1,000 a year university-sponsored National Merit.