How far would $2 billion have gone in expanding the monorail?

The problem with building some kind of rapid transit system at WDW is the poorly planned layout of the resort. The original WDW layout was great for a monorail system, with the MK connected to the TTC and resorts on a single loop.

What Disney should have done was to construct a monorail superloop encircling the property and add parks and resorts along the route as needed. That way the basic infrastructure would already be in place for future expansion and all that was needed is to build more stations where necessary. Something similar could have even been done using a private road and buses instead of a monorail.
 
I feel like the long-term plan is to dismantle the monorail. New ferry dock, a billion new bus stops at the front of MK...I dunno. Hope I'm wrong.

^This is the thought I had when I saw the pics of the new ferry dock. They are starting to have too many problems and its costing too much to keep up. I hope not we LOVE the monorail. But that's likely the long term plan.
 
The biggest problem with monorails is that, from a purely logistical standpoint, there exists much better transportation systems. When a monorail breaks down then all of the other monorails on that track can't move. If a bus breaks down, they pull off to the side of the road and none of the others are affected. Disney can also easily add in more busses from Mears whenever the crowds get higher, they can't do that with a monorail.

I love the monorail to death and I could go for a little more expansion, but I don't think that every resort and every park needs one. And I think if you start making people transfer too much or stop too much it becomes confusing. Disney puts a lot of effort into making sure that you don't transfer on their transportation systems (with few exceptions).

I think this is why you see disney expanding their bus fleet more than anything else. It's not because they are being cheap but they realize that it's the best way to get you from Point A to Point B without a huge wait.
 
Anyone at Disney authorizing a $2 billion expansion of the monorail should be sure to have their resume up to date.
 

I'd love to see a DTD-HS-AK monorail. This way, while staying at Boardwalk, I can get to both DTD and AK without buses. Seriously, if I could take a monorail to DTD, I'd go once a trip! Now its once every 3 trips, only if the trips are long, and only if we haven't been to Fulton's in a while.

Actually, I'd extend that to a AKL - AK- Blizzard Beach - HS/Boardwalk - Typhoon - DTD. Then all the Deluxe resorts would have "access" to a monorail. AKL would be an end point. Epcot resorts would have access via Swan-Boardwalk-HS stop. OKW and SS would have access via DTD.

Win-win-win!
And offsite guests looking to avoid paying for parking would then be able to get TO any park easily, quickly, and free.
 
I am pretty sure the monorail costs more than other light rail designs that have been created since. Any new rail line needs to have an ROI within about 5 years - maybe 10 but I doubt it. So the sum of energy, maintenance, and operations labor needs to be a much better sum than the equivalent bus routes.

That's going to be a tough one.
 
Talked to an engineer who had done some research. For the monorail to be expanded and new codes set, at bare minimums, you're talking almost 1/4 million for maybe, at most, 200 ft. of rail. That's a lot of cheese.
 
Talked to an engineer who had done some research. For the monorail to be expanded and new codes set, at bare minimums, you're talking almost 1/4 million for maybe, at most, 200 ft. of rail. That's a lot of cheese.

That's roughly $6.6M per mile, and sounds about right for the rail infrastructure itself (beams/supports/electrical). It sounds even more credible when you consider that the original construction cost was about $1M per mile in 1970 dollars.

People are quick to point out how public monorail systems cost a fortune to build and therefore it would cost Disney hundred of millions if not billions to construct several miles of new rail. But the WDW monorail tracks differ substantially from municipal systems and Disney owns the ROW. Take a look at the support columns and beams. There are approximately 25 supports per mile of rail, each consisting of about 30 yards of concrete. The rails themselves are precast. Long story short, I think the engineer you talked to is spot on.
 
They could have built a tone of nice costers. EE cost 100 mill in 2006. Adjusted for inflation that would be 116 mill now. They could had built 17 of them for 2 bill. 4.25 new major rides per park or fast pass plus with a rubber bracelet, what would you prefer?
 
Laketravis said:
That's roughly $6.6M per mile, and sounds about right for the rail infrastructure itself (beams/supports/electrical). It sounds even more credible when you consider that the original construction cost was about $1M per mile in 1970 dollars.

People are quick to point out how public monorail systems cost a fortune to build and therefore it would cost Disney hundred of millions if not billions to construct several miles of new rail. But the WDW monorail tracks differ substantially from municipal systems and Disney owns the ROW. Take a look at the support columns and beams. There are approximately 25 supports per mile of rail, each consisting of about 30 yards of concrete. The rails themselves are precast. Long story short, I think the engineer you talked to is spot on.

I try to hang out with smart people. Makes me seem credible! ;)
 
That's roughly $6.6M per mile, and sounds about right for the rail infrastructure itself (beams/supports/electrical). It sounds even more credible when you consider that the original construction cost was about $1M per mile in 1970 dollars.

People are quick to point out how public monorail systems cost a fortune to build and therefore it would cost Disney hundred of millions if not billions to construct several miles of new rail. But the WDW monorail tracks differ substantially from municipal systems and Disney owns the ROW. Take a look at the support columns and beams. There are approximately 25 supports per mile of rail, each consisting of about 30 yards of concrete. The rails themselves are precast. Long story short, I think the engineer you talked to is spot on.

That makes more sense to me. I've never understood the $100-150M/mi notion of a monorail. It seems like, just by looking at it, that it should be cheaper to build than roads, subways, light rail, etc. It's support columns with a beam and power. It's always boggled me that you'd see, "Oh, building a monorail is too expensive," but then you see cities build and expand their subway systems with no thought to the cost as if it's cheaper.

All that being said, while monorails are sexier, the buses make more sense. They can funnel them to where they're needed in the case of an event or large crowd, everything doesn't stop because one breaks down, etc. They're not sexy. They're pretty boring, but they really do make the most sense.

As for the dream of expansion, which I think we all know isn't going to happen, They'd really need to tie in parks and resorts. It wouldn't be of much use just connecting parks (not that anyone has suggested it) as it's really be an expensive park-hoppers train. Connecting parks/resorts without making it suck because of all of the stops would be a challenge.

Regarding ROI, I don't know how you'd even quantify that. On the one hand it may pull in a few more people (I wouldn't guess a lot) and you may be able to charge a little more at the deluxe hotels that it stops at but it doesn't seem like it'd really pay off any any way.

Another thing to consider is that, while the loop around Bay Lake is quite nice and scenic, the line to Epcot is pretty boring. You get some interesting things to look at when you approach Epcot and go through it but the rest of it is a lot of yawn. It's pine trees and a road. If anything, you have a better view from the road looking up at the Epcot monorail as you approach the Magic Kingdom.

As it is, I think they're approaching the "better fix it or get rid of it," choice. It used to be that I'd just park at Epcot or the Magic Kingdom and then ride the monorail over to the other one at the end of the night knowing I could get back. Now I'm not so sure so I just drive between the two. It's actually pretty rare when I ride the Epcot track in part because it's boring but also because of the weird schedule that they keep with it, now.

If they keep the monorail then it seems like maybe they need to consider building a small maintenance shop over by Epcot where they can service and park the Epcot line trains without affecting the other lines with track switching. I think they're also overdue for getting new trains. I think, if I remember correctly, that they typically replace them around the 20-year mark and this current set is approaching 25 years.

If they did get rid of them people would initially complain but as the pylons were pulled up and the track removed people would have fond memories but get past it like any other ride that's been removed.
 
They could have built a tone of nice costers. EE cost 100 mill in 2006. Adjusted for inflation that would be 116 mill now. They could had built 17 of them for 2 bill. 4.25 new major rides per park or fast pass plus with a rubber bracelet, what would you prefer?

Thank you now I am going to be depressed for the rest of the day thinking about all the new rides we could have gotten instead of these magic bands. :(
 
Am I the only one who thinks the magic bands were a great idea?? On our last trip to Disney I can't even count the number of problems people encountered with paper tickets. They were a pain in the butt. Additionally, the added bonus of not having to carry around a room key, fast pass tickets, and being able to link your credit card to it seem like a huge time saver. It's a completely new system so of course it's expensive, but it will pay for itself.

Disney is so slow when it comes to adding new parks and attractions. Just a fact of it. I'm looking forward to this upcoming trip with the magic bands. Maybe my thoughts will change once I experience them, but so far it seems really cool.
 
Thank you now I am going to be depressed for the rest of the day thinking about all the new rides we could have gotten instead of these magic bands. :(

They could make the Monorail an attraction since it's so iconic, then you could use your Magic Band at the FP+ scanner to get on it. It's called synergy!!
 
Am I the only one who thinks the magic bands were a great idea?? On our last trip to Disney I can't even count the number of problems people encountered with paper tickets. They were a pain in the butt. Additionally, the added bonus of not having to carry around a room key, fast pass tickets, and being able to link your credit card to it seem like a huge time saver. It's a completely new system so of course it's expensive, but it will pay for itself.

Disney is so slow when it comes to adding new parks and attractions. Just a fact of it. I'm looking forward to this upcoming trip with the magic bands. Maybe my thoughts will change once I experience them, but so far it seems really cool.

They are nice until you lose one while at the park. Half way through Lights Motor, Action I looked down to see mine was gone. No clue where it fell off. It later showed up on MDE as "Lost".
 
They are nice until you lose one while at the park. Half way through Lights Motor, Action I looked down to see mine was gone. No clue where it fell off. It later showed up on MDE as "Lost".

This is the one thing I'm crazy concerned over. Especially with my DDs. To they fit secure or will they fall off easily.
 
Am I the only one who thinks the magic bands were a great idea?? On our last trip to Disney I can't even count the number of problems people encountered with paper tickets. They were a pain in the butt. Additionally, the added bonus of not having to carry around a room key, fast pass tickets, and being able to link your credit card to it seem like a huge time saver.

Honestly? I think it's ridiculous that people cannot manage to carry two or three credit cards in their pocket all day, and manage to use them at the correct places. I bet many people use more credit cards than you'd need for a Disney Day just doing their holiday shopping!

They could have built a tone of nice costers. EE cost 100 mill in 2006. Adjusted for inflation that would be 116 mill now. They could had built 17 of them for 2 bill. 4.25 new major rides per park or fast pass plus with a rubber bracelet, what would you prefer?

This was my first thought: How many really amazing new attractions could we have had for even HALF the cost of MM+? Disney's still dumping unnecessary money into this, sending magic bands every time someone goes to a park. As they have this whole thing computerized, tell people to KEEP their RELOADABLE magic bands for another trip, or pay for new ones (like refillable mugs). Many, many of us were able to keep track of park passes with unused admissions on them, back in the days when passes were good FOREVER (without an additional charge).

Of course, magic bands were available in a matter of months after announcement; how long do you suppose it'd take Disney to construct all those new rides? :rotfl2:
 
This is the one thing I'm crazy concerned over. Especially with my DDs. To they fit secure or will they fall off easily.

In this instance it was the second trip I had worn the band and noticed that the snap felt less tight. I believe it might have fallen off while drying my hands. Good thing I still have 2 extra bands left.
 












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