How does Disney know if you are using a child credit for an adult meal?

[Sammie]

They probably can't tell currently on an individual level at the time of purchase. But they can tell on an aggregate level - and the data mining may even be complex enough to trace abuse back after the fact to an individual - though I doubt it.

The deal with them being able to tell at an aggregate level is that if its bad enough, Disney will take steps to compensate. Either they will add the systems to enforce, or they will add policies that will make the plan less flexible (everyone in the party needs to use their credits if one person uses their credits for TS and CS meals), or they will raise the price to compensate for the fraud. So anyone who does this under the "hee hee hee, I won't get caught" is harming other Disney guests. (Ever have privledges removed from you as a kid 'cause one of your siblings did something stupid? Not real fair, was it?)

My money would be on a change in policy - if you have your children with you, you need to use their credits and an increase in price. A change in systems will be expensive, policy costs nothing.

Actually what is going to happen is policy change now, systems change later in the year.

 

[QueenGoblin]

While I agree that the children's menus are usually pretty bad at CS restaurants, the answer here may be "the dining plan can't be all things to all people." It may not be a good deal for your family. It would be great if this were a good fit for everyone - its such a good deal (even without using kids credits for adult meals) for most people. But it isn't and I don't think it ever will be. If not being able to use kids credits for adult meals puts you over the edge into "bad deal," you can still pay out of pocket.

That's very true crisi. We are going to be there for free dining in September and I am looking forward to it as a way to try it out to decide if it makes sense for us to purchase it during future trips. It just kind of strikes me as odd that at a resort that caters so much to families and children that they wouldn't have better children's options at CS locations. I guess in September I'll let DD eat my meal and I'll let myself be the one to turn orange from too much mac and cheese. Seriously, I'm not complaining too loud since the free dining promo was a good deal for us, so I'm not going to worry about buying some stuf oop if we have to. But I do think this might be the deal breaker for us if we were to consider buying the plan in the future unless the children's CS items improved.

 

[JimMIA]

That's very true crisi. We are going to be there for free dining in September and I am looking forward to it as a way to try it out to decide if it makes sense for us to purchase it during future trips. It just kind of strikes me as odd that at a resort that caters so much to families and children that they wouldn't have better children's options at CS locations. I guess in September I'll let DD eat my meal and I'll let myself be the one to turn orange from too much mac and cheese. Seriously, I'm not complaining too loud since the free dining promo was a good deal for us, so I'm not going to worry about buying some stuf oop if we have to. But I do think this might be the deal breaker for us if we were to consider buying the plan in the future unless the children's CS items improved.

I agree about the kid's choices, both for CS and TS. However, the ability to use TSs for character meals overcomes that in my mind.

 

[crisi]

... It just kind of strikes me as odd that at a resort that caters so much to families and children that they wouldn't have better children's options at CS locations. .....

Instead of looking at it from a choice standpoint, look at it from a logistics standpoint.

There is a line 20 people deep at 12:00 noon, and there is only ONE choice for a children's meal. Line moves quickly. Perhaps even quickly enough that it doesn't get deeper.

Ever been at McDonald's behind someone ordering a happy meal for little Austin? "Would you like chicken nuggets or a cheeseburger sweetie?" And sweetie take four minutes to make up his mind and changes it three times after its made up. Fewer choices means they move more people through.

Even for the adult menus, there are few choices at any single counter service location (for a vegetarian, usually just ONE). This keeps the lines moving quickly. Its both the of Cosmic Rays and the reason people hate it - I'm SO CLOSE to the chicken, but I can't get there from here!

Disney generally does logistics very well - better than customer service.

 

[JoiseyMom]

They probably can't tell currently on an individual level at the time of purchase. But they can tell on an aggregate level - and the data mining may even be complex enough to trace abuse back after the fact to an individual - though I doubt it.

The deal with them being able to tell at an aggregate level is that if its bad enough, Disney will take steps to compensate. Either they will add the systems to enforce, or they will add policies that will make the plan less flexible (everyone in the party needs to use their credits if one person uses their credits for TS and CS meals), or they will raise the price to compensate for the fraud. So anyone who does this under the "hee hee hee, I won't get caught" is harming other Disney guests. (Ever have privledges removed from you as a kid 'cause one of your siblings did something stupid? Not real fair, was it?)

My money would be on a change in policy - if you have your children with you, you need to use their credits and an increase in price. A change in systems will be expensive, policy costs nothing.

A system change is not really expensive. They have a staff of programmers that are there to do enhancements and fix bugs in the system. This would be an enhancement, and wouldn't cause any increase in expense to Disney. The staff is already there working on the system, it is just another assignment to them.

 

[crisi]

A system change is not really expensive. They have a staff of programmers that are there to do enhancements and fix bugs in the system. This would be an enhancement, and wouldn't cause any increase in expense to Disney. The staff is already there working on the system, it is just another assignment to them.

I do IT project management. I don't know enough about Disney's system to really say if its expensive or not really expensive. I do know that a change like this to our systems at my company runs a minimum of six figures - just to update the documentation and put it through testing. That's if you don't need to do much but change a few data definitions. On the other hand, policy changes are (for us) almost free.

 

[Pedler]

I do IT project management. I don't know enough about Disney's system to really say if its expensive or not really expensive. I do know that a change like this to our systems at my company runs a minimum of six figures - just to update the documentation and put it through testing. That's if you don't need to do much but change a few data definitions. On the other hand, policy changes are (for us) almost free.

I can second this. Also remember this isn't just one system. You have the point of sale systems and there are more than one type of those. You have the central tracking system and then then interface in with the systems in the resorts to provide reports to the guests. I doubt Disney has the programmers just sitting around to handle this. Most internal IT programmers are typically assigned out on projects that can last months if not years. In some cases highly specialized systems like point of sale terminals require that the vendor or outside contractor be brought in.

And once you do determine what needs to be done, identify all systems impacted and create your testing plan you need evaluate your staffing needs and determine if you can handle it with internal staff or need to bring in an outside company. Then you need to cost out the project, do your ROI analysis and get budget approval (Someone's deparment(s) has to pay for this and none of them will want to.). When all of that is done you can start the project. Of course at some point you will have to have gotten this scheduled and if you are using outside vendors you need to do the whole RFP thing.

I also work in IT and work on enterprise scale database projects. Once an application goes live there is no such thing as a simple change. The analogy that we tell our clients is that changes to programs are like changes to building a house. To add a window to a house before it is built cost one amount, basically just the cost of the window and a bit of labor. Once the house is framed it cost more. When the house is finished and you have to cut through the sheet rock, sheething, remove siding, add the framing and the window then fix the sheet rock and siding and such it costs a lot more and takes a lot more time.

 

[Sammie]

A very good explanation, Pedler. I don't know alot about IT, but do know enough from my Disney friends that it is not an easy fix or a quick one for them and anyone that says it is, does not work for them.

For one thing as you stated someone has to pay for it. And very few people realize that with Disney everything is not just paid for by Disney. It is charged to different departments. For example resorts have to pay Transportation for all the transportation to their given resort. Which is one reason deluxe resorts are more expensive, more transportation options.

With the Dining plan, you have Food and Beverage, you have Tickets, you have Resorts, you have WDW Travel Co. So there are alot of different areas to get on the same page.

And one major problem is Disney is 24/7 year round. They do not close. So when do you change over without it affecting someone.

 

[Pedler]

A very good explanation, Pedler. I don't know alot about IT, but do know enough from my Disney friends that it is not an easy fix or a quick one for them and anyone that says it is, does not work for them.

For one thing as you stated someone has to pay for it. And very few people realize that with Disney everything is not just paid for by Disney. It is charged to different departments. For example resorts have to pay Transportation for all the transportation to their given resort. Which is one reason deluxe resorts are more expensive, more transportation options.

With the Dining plan, you have Food and Beverage, you have Tickets, you have Resorts, you have WDW Travel Co. So there are alot of different areas to get on the same page.

And one major problem is Disney is 24/7 year round. They do not close. So when do you change over without it affecting someone.

One thing I have found is that the larger a company is and the more departments a project crosses the harder it is to get approval (funding) to do the project. Everyone can agree that it should be done but it has to come out of someones budget and will effect thier P & L. If its a cross department project everyone thinks it should come out of everyone elses budget but not thiers. It is easier to get approval for a larger project that benefits and is paid for by single department than one that is multi department. Of course at the deparment level they all think IT should just eat the cost. (Get it... eat the cost... dinning plan... O.K. I shouldn't quit the day job.)

 

[crisi]

Large companies are insane. I'm $20k into labor on one and haven't gotten approval yet to move it out of Initiation (that's requirements gathering, costing, ROI calcs, etc.) - and probably won't until I spend another $10k in time. We are already delayed in that the staff of programmers the are sitting around waiting for my project are currently overbooked working on other projects - so I'm not in any rush to get approval until the resources start to align - or they'll get pulled AFTER approval. If mine doesn't make the cut in terms of value add (in other words, if the programmers time is better spent doing something else), we will have spent $30k to determine not to do any work.

At least I don't work for my husband's company - they outsourced their programming so there aren't even resources you can grab in their spare moments for a quickie task - his quickie task got costed at $80,000 - this was an enhancement to an Access database someone outside of IT had done in spare moments.