How does Disney know if you are using a child credit for an adult meal?

[Tam1067]

This is why threads like this get locked. A question was asked how disney knows when you are using a child credit for an adult meal, and that should be the focus of this discussion. I would like to hear if people have experienced this in their recent trips. Have you used child credits for adult meals? We know who opposes this, and you have stated your views and we got the point. So please let the thread continue without getting off the subject!

We returned just Tuesday of this week. I did use a total of 4 child CS credits to purchase breakfasts, none of which were marked as "child" breakfasts since the only breakfast at the CS spot in my resort was one with bacon and eggs. The Mickey waffles were non-child meals which I did purchase a couple of times with CS credits. I also purchased a drink and a cinnammon roll (a lousy return on my $ by the way--but the CS credit would have been unused otherwise) as a CS. Pastries are also not designated as a "child" meal for breakfast, so I guess technically I broke the rule there, even though the pastry costs less than the kids' bacon and eggs plate. One small box of cold cereal and a pint of milk would also be a CS meal at breakfast (according to the CM I talked to) which again is not an official "child" meal according to the signs posted, but is also a very poor use on even a child's meal plan account.

All the receipts we got back were, as of Tuesday, still pooled together with a "total" number of CS or TS credits left, and no distinction is made on that receipt. So, can you still use a child's credit to purchase an "adult" meal? I believe so. Should you do so? That's an entirely different question, and one many people here can argue about, as we've seen.

I hope I answered your question!

 

[bicker]

Have you ever considered not responding if you don't want to answer the question???

As I mentioned earlier, it isn't that I don't want to answer the question, it is that I believe it is wrong to provide information to facilitiate a transgression, and wrong to remain silent when that wrong is done by others.

I vote for Haley.

Haley has reviewed her comments and told me through email that she now agrees with me. Take it to PM if you want to verify that with her, as it is not permitted to have one-on-one personal exchanges in public threads.

 

[Letsbgoofy]

Okay, I have tried to stay out of this type of discussion, but I just have to add my .02.

I agree with Bicker and all others who post that using child credits for adult meals is wrong, as stated in the Disney brochure. I also agree that they should mention this to people asking "How does Disney know?"

Personally, I don't care what people do until it affects me; I'm not the moral police with anyone but myself an my son (okay, and my DH). But, if Disney stops the child credit misuse by making the "no sharing" rule for everyone, then the misuse of the system affects me. I want to be able to share with my DH. We aren't trying to save credits, but trying to eat in a way that still leaves us comfortable to tour the parks in the August heat. I'm a former waitress and a great tipper; no server will lose out if we split a meal.

The DP is a great deal (especially when it's free, but we had planned to pay for it). If everyone follows the guidelines set out by Disney, we can all enjoy the plan.

 

[QueenGoblin]

My only hope is if they do start enforcing the separation of childrens and adult credits that they will offer more variety on the children's menus or offer the option of purchasing a child's portion of an adult meal at the CS places. We are vegetarian and if we limit my daughter to the children's menu rather than pooling and sharing our CS credits, she will have mac and cheese coming out of her ears by the end of the week...and some cs places don't offer a veggie kids item. The TS places are great about accomodating veggie needs, but the CS places have a harder time.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Nice to see that we're (sort of) back on the topic---.

 

[bunny]

Aren't the Disney guidelines 1TS, 1CS, and 1 snack per person per day? So how does sharing fall under these guidelines? Even if you share you are still getting a TS.

So the answer to my original question is Disney doesn't know.

 

[texasmom]

So now at the end of my trip if i have 4 TS credits left (2 would be A and 2 would be C), and my husband and i go to a Signature restaurant requiring 2 TS credits each will they or not know that 2 are actually childrens credits??

I'm not tring to take advantage, actually most of our TS meals are for lunch - and are not at the most expensive places - BUT that being said i'll be paying for my kids to stay in the kids club and in addition paying for there dnr there since i can not use a CS or TS for a meal there.

So will i be able to use this?

Don't worry about if the TS is for an adult or child. There is no way the CMs can tell since the TS, Cs's and snack credits are in a "pool". I have a three year old and at some TSs there is just too much food. I did not order for him because it would have been a waste of food. He ate off my plate and we still had left overs. Should we waste it? I think not.
You can use you four total TS for as signature meal that requires two per person. That is not a big deal. I went in June and we had no problem. Some CMs were more than happy to help you figure the best way to use the DP in order to maximize it. We are going back in September. I will pay OOP for two meals for my 3 and 6 year old.

 

[richard_andmel]

I agree with Bicker and all others who post that using child credits for adult meals is wrong, as stated in the Disney brochure. I also agree that they should mention this to people asking "How does Disney know?"

Personally, I don't care what people do until it affects me; I'm not the moral police with anyone but myself an my son (okay, and my DH). But, if Disney stops the child credit misuse by making the "no sharing" rule for everyone, then the misuse of the system affects me. I want to be able to share with my DH. We aren't trying to save credits, but trying to eat in a way that still leaves us comfortable to tour the parks in the August heat. I'm a former waitress and a great tipper; no server will lose out if we split a meal.

I completely agree with this.

With no disrespect to OP - I cannot stand this topic anymore!

Why if someone doesn't like a topic would they feel the need to keep reading threads about it???

 

[crisi]

They probably can't tell currently on an individual level at the time of purchase. But they can tell on an aggregate level - and the data mining may even be complex enough to trace abuse back after the fact to an individual - though I doubt it.

The deal with them being able to tell at an aggregate level is that if its bad enough, Disney will take steps to compensate. Either they will add the systems to enforce, or they will add policies that will make the plan less flexible (everyone in the party needs to use their credits if one person uses their credits for TS and CS meals), or they will raise the price to compensate for the fraud. So anyone who does this under the "hee hee hee, I won't get caught" is harming other Disney guests. (Ever have privledges removed from you as a kid 'cause one of your siblings did something stupid? Not real fair, was it?)

My money would be on a change in policy - if you have your children with you, you need to use their credits and an increase in price. A change in systems will be expensive, policy costs nothing.

 

[JimMIA]

How hard can it be to seperate A and C credits, once and for all. Just put the whole issue to bed

I don't think it's that hard. I know it's a lot of work and expense, but it's a minor project compared to other things they do. I think they've already reviewed the early results with this meal plan, decided that it makes financial sense to segregate child and adult credits, and started working on implementation. That's why they changed the wording in the brochure.

Once they segregate the credits, a lot of the other issues will take care of themselves.

Want to pay OOP for a kids meal? Fine, because you will only be able to used the saved kids credit for another kids meal -- like CRT.

Want to use two Adult credits for a meal at Yachtsman? No problem.

Want to use 4 adult credits on a 2A card at a one TS restaurant? Naw, computer won't let you.

I think we will see that change by the start of the 2007 DP. I'd think their real target date would be just before the CP packages begin, because those are large-ticket items they'd love to control if they can. In fact, I think that change is what is holding up the announcement of the '07 plan and the '06 CP packages.

 

[JimMIA]

They probably can't tell currently on an individual level at the time of purchase. But they can tell on an aggregate level - and the data mining may even be complex enough to trace abuse back after the fact to an individual - though I doubt it.

Actually, if you just wanted to look at a small sample, like a few thousand guests, you could do that easily with Excel. Narrowing it down to individual records that meet some criteria is simple.

If you wanted to look at every meal, on every ressie number at WDW for the entire year, that's just as easy -- you just need more processing capacity. Assuming millions of records and tens of millions of entries, it would probably take a week or less using ACL, which I'm sure is on every Disney auditor's laptop. I've seen 4 million records analyzed in much greater depth than we're talking about over a weekend.

The deal with them being able to tell at an aggregate level is that if its bad enough, Disney will take steps to compensate.

Right. The aggregate is what they are interested in to make a policy decision. For that purpose, they don't care WHO the problem is, they just want to know whether a problem exists, and if so, to quantify it so they can analyze cost/benefit scenarios. As I said above, I think they finished all this analysis a while ago.

 

[Lewisc]

I think Disney would like to get the change done, or at least reduce abuse, before free dining.

Guests are using "banked" credits in the WS restaurant. I don't think it matters if a family is using "child" credits for an adult dinner at Le Cellier or using "child" credits for an adult CP package. Guests can't split meals when they book a CP so I'd think the problem may actually be less with the CP. Everyone at the table has to either use a credit or pay cash.

I think we will see that change by the start of the 2007 DP. I'd think their real target date would be just before the CP packages begin, because those are large-ticket items they'd love to control if they can. In fact, I think that change is what is holding up the announcement of the '07 plan and the '06 CP packages.

 

[carone0318]

My only hope is if they do start enforcing the separation of childrens and adult credits that they will offer more variety on the children's menus or offer the option of purchasing a child's portion of an adult meal at the CS places. We are vegetarian and if we limit my daughter to the children's menu rather than pooling and sharing our CS credits, she will have mac and cheese coming out of her ears by the end of the week...and some cs places don't offer a veggie kids item. The TS places are great about accomodating veggie needs, but the CS places have a harder time.

This is how I feel also. My concern is with the CS meals. My kids are not going to want to eat chicken fingers every day, maybe half of the days we are there , but the kids CS menus are lame. My intentions are not to cheat the system, but just to get my kids something to eat that they would want and enjoy. I keep searching high and low to find a variety in regards to CS. I think that we will be ok with most of the parks, the one with the weakest selections to me is MK.

Let's hope if they re-evaluate the current system that they re-evaluate what they offer on the children's menu. This is my only concern with the DDP; otherwise, I am looking forward to using it in about 25 days, but who's counting !

 

[crisi]

Actually, if you just wanted to look at a small sample, like a few thousand guests, you could do that easily with Excel. Narrowing it down to individual records that meet some criteria is simple.

If you wanted to look at every meal, on every ressie number at WDW for the entire year, that's just as easy -- you just need more processing capacity. Assuming millions of records and tens of millions of entries, it would probably take a week or less using ACL, which I'm sure is on every Disney auditor's laptop. I've seen 4 million records analyzed in much greater depth than we're talking about over a weekend.
.

Depends on the data they keep.

For instance, if my family of four goes to Alfredo's - uses two adult credits and pays for two kids out of pocket, the next night goes to FF and does the same, they can only trace it back if they tag my orders with a Dining Plan ID that comes back to me. If, to the register at FF, its "four credits for two adult meals" and not "four of crisi's credit's for two adult meals" they can't get back to me.

I don't know how the data is collected. I've done lots of this sort of data analysis too, and sometimes you just need processing power, and sometimes the DBA looks at you like you are nuts and says "we never figured anyone would want to trace that that way."

If they CAN tie you to your ADR to your order to your dining plan credits, then they just need to crunch. But I suspect that at least pieces of this trail are missing (since they usually can't track me to my ADRs since they've usually misspelled my name!).

 

[crisi]

This is how I feel also. My concern is with the CS meals. My kids are not going to want to eat chicken fingers every day, maybe half of the days we are there , but the kids CS menus are lame. My intentions are not to cheat the system, but just to get my kids something to eat that they would want and enjoy. I keep searching high and low to find a variety in regards to CS. I think that we will be ok with most of the parks, the one with the weakest selections to me is MK.

Let's hope if they re-evaluate the current system that they re-evaluate what they offer on the children's menu. This is my only concern with the DDP; otherwise, I am looking forward to using it in about 25 days, but who's counting !

While I agree that the children's menus are usually pretty bad at CS restaurants, the answer here may be "the dining plan can't be all things to all people." It may not be a good deal for your family. It would be great if this were a good fit for everyone - its such a good deal (even without using kids credits for adult meals) for most people. But it isn't and I don't think it ever will be. If not being able to use kids credits for adult meals puts you over the edge into "bad deal," you can still pay out of pocket.

 

[lisaross]

i am crazy for feeling the least bit guilty

I am going to be on the ddp for 2 adults and 2 children. Pretty much will be using the plan to make our trip the most enjoyable one. I will not be "wasting" food just to order. I will not be ordering the most expensive thing on the menu - i will order what i feel like eating. For that matter i'm using most of my TS credits for lunch - yes lunch - maybe not the best use if i want to get my monies worth BUT i just want an enjoyable vacation. If we're all hungry then yes we'll order what were entitled to BUT if not then we'll share appetizer/desserts etc. One night yes we will be using 2 childrens TS credits for my husband and i to eat at a Signature Restaurant but this is BECAuse my kids will be in the kids club where i will be paying $10.00 per child per hour and yes it think this is fair, BUT i can NOT use any of there credits for dinner at the kids club! So is Disney loosing $$ on me NO!

lisa

 

[Pedler]

Depends on the data they keep.

For instance, if my family of four goes to Alfredo's - uses two adult credits and pays for two kids out of pocket, the next night goes to FF and does the same, they can only trace it back if they tag my orders with a Dining Plan ID that comes back to me. If, to the register at FF, its "four credits for two adult meals" and not "four of crisi's credit's for two adult meals" they can't get back to me.

I don't know how the data is collected. I've done lots of this sort of data analysis too, and sometimes you just need processing power, and sometimes the DBA looks at you like you are nuts and says "we never figured anyone would want to trace that that way."

If they CAN tie you to your ADR to your order to your dining plan credits, then they just need to crunch. But I suspect that at least pieces of this trail are missing (since they usually can't track me to my ADRs since they've usually misspelled my name!).

They can provide you a print out at the resort of the places you have used credits and the number of credits you used for the trip so they are tracking credit usage by reservation by place used. I don't remember if the report had the dollar amount of the bill. One of the receipt at the restuarants had that information on it. If they stored the dollar amount of each use of credits along with the other information then they could run a report showing the average dollar amount spent per credit type (TS, CS, Snack) per reservation.

 

[matt&jakesmom]

It seems that everyone is "obsessed" with the dining plan, but maybe in the wrong way. My family and I used it last year and loved it. It saved us money and we got to eat at other restaurants that normally we may not have eaten at. When I had a question about it I asked a CM. We are using it this trip upcoming and I will do the same-if I have a question I will ask a CM. But most of all my family and I will enjoy the food and just being in Disney.

 

[DisneyKidds]

They can provide you a print out at the resort of the places you have used credits and the number of credits you used for the trip so they are tracking credit usage by reservation by place used. I don't remember if the report had the dollar amount of the bill. One of the receipt at the restuarants had that information on it. If they stored the dollar amount of each use of credits along with the other information then they could run a report showing the average dollar amount spent per credit type (TS, CS, Snack) per reservation.

They obviously track total credits and use (number of credits and location) by individual reservation. Since they don't track adult and child credits seperately, and I would imagine the system doesn't keep a record of what was ordered, it would seem the best way to detect abuse would be to design a test that looks at the party size and makeup vs. the number of credits used at each individual location. When a party of 2 adults and 2 children consistently uses only 2 TS credits and most sit down places I think it would be pretty indicative of a problem. I would imagine that would be a pretty easy test to design....and I wouldn't be surprised if it was already functioning.

 

[JimMIA]

Depends on the data they keep.

For instance, if my family of four goes to Alfredo's - uses two adult credits and pays for two kids out of pocket, the next night goes to FF and does the same, they can only trace it back if they tag my orders with a Dining Plan ID that comes back to me. If, to the register at FF, its "four credits for two adult meals" and not "four of crisi's credit's for two adult meals" they can't get back to me.

I don't know how the data is collected. I've done lots of this sort of data analysis too, and sometimes you just need processing power, and sometimes the DBA looks at you like you are nuts and says "we never figured anyone would want to trace that that way."

If they CAN tie you to your ADR to your order to your dining plan credits, then they just need to crunch. But I suspect that at least pieces of this trail are missing (since they usually can't track me to my ADRs since they've usually misspelled my name!).

Well, it certainly does depend on what they capture and what they save, but all of your DP stuff is tied to your room. Likewise, each meal transaction has to tie back to your room for the credits to be deducted. So they would have to be able to track your credit entries and tie them to something at the restaurant -- ADR number, order number, individual waiter sales...something. Otherwise, if there was some discrepancy, they'd have no way to resolve it.

I think it's likely that those are two distinct systems, which only talk to each other in terms of DDP credits -- not items ordered, ketchup/mustard, or $s. So you'd probably have to download data from two databases, throw them together, and then do the analysis. But it shouldn't be a biggie to do that and track things down to whatever level of detail you want. I'm sure they could tell you what a party had for dinner if they had to. The only question in my mind would be how long they might save some of the data. You'd be amazed (or appalled) at what can be gleaned from some of this restaurant data.

I'm sure Disney'd be much more interested in the aggregates, though. Individual information is usually most useful in forensic situations.