How does Disney know if you are using a child credit for an adult meal?

[bunny]

I am not trying to start a debate, since it now states in the Dining brochure this is no longer allowed. I just want to know how does Disney know? Are they really relaying on the integrity of their customers to police themselves? Obviously that is not going to be a good strategy. What methods are in place to enforce this? Is it by requiring everyone either be OPP or DP for every meal? I really can't see another way to do it. And I also think it would be virtually impossible to keep track for CS meals. Lastly I don't know why Disney would even bother. To book the DP, you need to pay rack rate for your room. Depending on available discounts, you could be paying $50 or more a night if you are staying in a deluxe room to take advantage of the dining. Therefore the dining plan now costs a family of 4 (2 adults, 2 children) $150 a night. If you divide that by 4 the price is $37.50 each which is appoximately the cost of an adult credit. So Disney is really charging alot more for the dining plan than its actual cost. By requiring that you purchase it for everyone in your room for every night you are there, they are also insuring they get all your food costs upfront and that you eat a TS every day. To me it seems the Dining Plan is a huge moneymaker for Disney now matter how people use it. Why is it becoming so complicated?

 

[Mom of 3]

I guess from what I understand Disney doesn't know if you are using a child credit for an adult.

For us we plan on using the credits how they were intended.

Anita
DH, DS10, DS6 and DS2

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'm interested to know as well. I have no intention of trying to abuse the system and use child credits for an adult meal, so before one of our meals I'll have to find out.

On our next trip we'll have the DDP. With the meals I currently have planned, it looks like our party of 4 (2 adults, 2 children) will have 4 TS credits left on our last night (which technically would be 2 adult and 2 child credits, if they were tracked as such). We intend on eating at Narcoossees that night, which is a signature restaurant. I have no idea what will happen. Technically, everyone in the party is supposed to use TS credits, but we wouldn't have enough credits to cover that. So, will they just take the 4 TS credits to cover 2 meals, allowing us to pay OOP for the other 2? If so, which meals will they apply the credits to? 1 adult and 1 child is what it should be, if credits are tracked. However, if they don't track credits and the server applies the credits against the 2 adult meals, should I correct them?

Anybody come across this?

 

[bunny]

I am just wondering why Disney changed their brochure if they aren't planning on enforcing it???

 

[Tam1067]

We just returned on July 18, and there is still no distinction in the "pool" of credits between child and adult meals. Your receipt says how many CS meals are left or how many TS meals are left--period.

That said, when you make your ADRs, you're asked how old the kids are, and your card does say right on it how many kids are on the plan and how many adults are. We didn't share any TS meals or try to get around the system at all, since we had one TS meal planned per day, and on the one day we went to an unplanned Kona Cafe lunch, I just paid OOP for everyone instead of trying to use 2 TS credits for the adults to get around the system.

CS is a different issue, though, because it's really hard for the guest to keep track. On that day we went to Kona for lunch, we ended up not spending our CS lunches that day, so we were "ahead" 5 CS lunches. Another day, one of my boys didn't order a lunch but got by on two snack credits for lunch, so we were ahead a total of 6 CS meals.

By the end of the week, we used those CS meals on breakfasts (not a good value moneywise since all we got was one item and a drink), but those were not noted as the kids' breakfast meal at our resort (there was one with eggs and bacon, but we don't eat that for breakfast normally). Unless there is a distinction on the receipts themselves, it's very very confusing to keep them completely separated, something I wouldn't have anticipated until I did it myself.

Now when you use your credits, the CM does ring everything up, so I believe the computer folks can go back and check, if they wanted to, to see how many guests are getting around the rules. But right now, there's nothing that automatically does it when you're there or to prevent you from doing it yourself.

 

[bicker]

I am just wondering why Disney changed their brochure if they aren't planning on enforcing it???

Two possibilities: (1) They're still relying on the fact that most guests will behave with integrity and honor the terms and conditions without having to be policed; or (2) They're planning on changing the computer systems to police the system to impose the terms and conditions uniformly.

 

[Pedler]

I I just want to know how does Disney know? Are they really relaying on the integrity of their customers to police themselves? Obviously that is not going to be a good strategy. What methods are in place to enforce this?

As Bicker said they are relying on the integrity of their customers to enforce it, at least for now. I think that the reason for the brochure change is that there was some ambiguity regarding the use of credits in the language of the old brochure and the way CM's were telling people to use the plan. Prior to the change I was all for using credits in any manner. Now that Disney has spelled out the rules we intend to follow them. Unlike some I don't need an enforcement mechanism to make a rule worth following.

My guess is that they can or have created a program to analyse how people are using the plan. They may not separate child / adult credits but they can most likely deduce how you used the plan by simply looking at how the credits were used with regards to average dollar amount and the type of credits you have. A family with 3 adult TS credits would have a higher average food cost per credit than the family with 2 adult and 1 child credit. Now with the change they may just take some time to analyse the data as it comes in for the next quarter or 2 and see what that does to the credit use now that they have explicitly defined this rule.

I can see Disney living with a certain amount of abuse of the plan the same way they do with refillable mugs. Sometimes the cost of fixing something is more than the benefit. Now that the rules are clear and if CM's are not offering up this type of advice then they may see what that does to utilization of the plan. While there seem to be a number of folks here at the DIS that have the view if it isn't enforced then a rule doesn't exist I would like to think that the majority of people that are looking for cost savings do so within the rules. (Note: start humming "To Dream the impossible dream..." )

 

[Pedler]

Two possibilities: (1) They're still relying on the fact that most guests will behave with integrity and honor the terms and conditions without having to be policed; or (2) They're planning on changing the computer systems to police the system to impose the terms and conditions uniformly.

I think that they probably are going to see how the integrity thing works first. The changes to the computer system would be quite involved considering how many different platforms it touches and then there is the whole training issue. By having the documented rule and CM's stop offering this advice should cut down on the use quite a bit. Then hold people to ordering the number of meals on their card. That won't cut down on the wholesale use of credits by people that don't want to waste a credit on their kid it would cut down on the situations where a family with 2 room reservations only gets it for one room and then shares the credits by buying meals for people in the other room or for their off site friends and family.

The creative ethically challenged people will always find a way around any system that relies on integrity. However the more road blocks you put in place the more people will give up trying to work the system. Fortunately the road blocks of limiting you to the numbers listed on the card don't have any adverse effect on people trying to stay within the rules.

 

[Lewisc]

It's kind of obvious when a family asks to pay OOP for kids meals. Sharing that includes a family deciding not to order any kids meals, have the kids eat off the adults plate is also obvious. Disney might decide to ban this type of activity. I guess they could decide to just put a hold on the account of families that orders this way. Manually look at their account and decide if they have any "adult" credits left. I think it would have been easier to just not track kids credits. Until the system is changed make it BOGO, an adult orders a meal (CS or TS) and they get to order the number of kids meals on the account.

Peddler--I suspect Disney has already crunched the numbers. My guess is they are going to separate the credits. From the posts on DIS it's obvious that relying on the integrity of the guests won't be sufficient.

 

[bicker]

I think that they probably are going to see how the integrity thing works first.

True: Disney is ever the optimists. However, just going by the chatter here on the DIS, apparently even after making things clear in the brochure, there are still people people willing to not only discard their integrity for a quick buck, but without enough shame to keep their transgressive nature to themselves. So I suspect that they'll be back to square-one in a few months, once they get the updated data, and see that counting on honesty of WDW guests is no longer a viable approach.

The changes to the computer system would be quite involved considering how many different platforms it touches and then there is the whole training issue.

Definitely. So many people fail to realize just how difficult it would really be, and fail to acknowledge that the significant costs that would have to be borne may have some negative impact on the plan, itself, one way or another. Disney won't necessarily just accept it solely as a cost of doing business.

By having the documented rule and CM's stop offering this advice should cut down on the use quite a bit. Then hold people to ordering the number of meals on their card.

Then we're still back to the "sharing isn't allowed" stuff. People want to share, and should be allowed to share as long as it isn't to "treat" (transfer benefits onto) folks not on the Dining Plan or to use child meal entitlements for adult meals. Relying on this will require Disney to prevent folks from doing this, and that's going to cause disapointment.

The creative ethically challenged people will always find a way around any system that relies on integrity.

Sad, sad, sad.

 

[Pedler]

Definitely. So many people fail to realize just how difficult it would really be, and fail to acknowledge that the significant costs that would have to be borne may have some negative impact on the plan, itself, one way or another. Disney won't necessarily just accept it solely as a cost of doing business.

When people post this is a simple change and Disney could do it if they wanted to quicky it shows that they don't really understand what is involved in changing an enterprise wide system. In particular one that involves multiple platforms and such. Just running the testing plan alone would take a long time.

Then we're still back to the "sharing isn't allowed" stuff. People want to share, and should be allowed to share as long as it isn't to "treat" (transfer benefits onto) folks not on the Dining Plan or to use child meal entitlements for adult meals. Relying on this will require Disney to prevent folks from doing this, and that's going to cause disapointment.
.

This is the one I really don't know how they could handle unless they simply say no sharing if you are on the dinning plan. If they did seperate child / adult credits then it would eliminate people using kids credits to treat family and friends. The other solution to stop people from tranferring credits is to enforce the limits listed on the card. It isn't perfect but that would cut down on most of it.

 

[HaleyB]

The short answer is that they don't.

Disney has been relying on the integrity of guests for a variety of things for years, and it seems to work. The DIS boards are by no means a sample of the 'average' guest. A huge number of people use only the information Disney gives them to plan their trip (yikes, I know).

People who read the DIS make up a tiny percentage of the guests on any given day. Same goes for the Unofficial Guide or Tour Guide Mike. The people who feel it is ok to do anything you can get away with make up a small percentage of the people here. Perhaps a vocal minority.

I think the change in wording was a clarification of the rules, I don't really see it as a huge change. I admit that it did seem like you could use saved children credits for adult meals the way it was worded in the past. Disney wanted to clear that up. I don't think they have nailed the wording yet, maybe they should run it by the people at the DIS next time

I agree a change in the computer system would be a large undertaking, and expensive. I have a feeling that if it comes to that they will rework the dining plan in other ways too and it will be the end of the current DDP and the birth of a new DDP.

 

[The Sweetness]

How hard can it be to seperate A and C credits, once and for all. Just put the whole issue to bed

 

[dbmarie]

I personally don't think forcing people to buy meals for everyone at the table would be a good idea, I don't use child ts for adult ts but my childern do share as do my husband and I at some restaurants simply because there is too much food. The dining plan includes alot of food for one meal and I don't want to carry leftovers through the park.

 

[decbysteph]

I'm just wondering what happens to left over TS credits? My DH and I will be using the Kids Clubs for babysitting my daughter on 2 nights so we can have a couple nights out. Should I just figure on them being lost? Can adults use them to order a "childs meal"?

 

[Mickey-4-Me]

With no disrespect to OP - I cannot stand this topic anymore!

For sanity reasons, I am going to completely stay off of the Dining Plan thread altogether.

Just a suggestion - bicker, Pedler, Lewisc, and the like should create a Members Only thread and gripe (I didn't want to be ejected for a different word choice.) until you are content. Trust me, EVERYONE that has EVER been on a (any) DINING THREAD remotely hinting to this topic knows your point of view.



Okay... I feel better.

 

[bicker]

How hard can it be to seperate A and C credits, once and for all.

As Pedler said -- very hard.

I personally don't think forcing people to buy meals for everyone at the table would be a good idea

I agree, but short of incurring that cost, there doesn't seem to be a way to get the self-proclaimed "pirates" to "tow the line".

I'm just wondering what happens to left over TS credits?

A certain amount of credits are projected to be left over. However, you could simply plan to use the credits for child meals for your children, while you pay OOP for additional meals for yourselves -- perhaps breakfast. Otherwise, if you'd end up leaving too many credits over, the Dining Plan is probably not for you.

 

[Mickey]

I agree with Mickey-4-Me, everyone understands your views and it is time to move on.

 

[bicker]

Thanks for your input. Sent you a PM.

 

[MNfamilycruiser]

It's kind of obvious when a family asks to pay OOP for kids meals.

I haven't ever posted on this topic - but I just wanted to bring up the point that people might have perfectly legitimate reasons to pay OOP for a kids meal.
I have one child who really doesn't eat much at dinner - however she eats quite a bit more at breakfast - kind of opposite of the rest of the family. What if I want to pay OOP for a few of her TS dinners and then use her TS for her breakfast a few days?

Or another instance - we have two 2TS meals booked - HDD and Flying Fish. However, the kids meals on the Flying Fish menu are basically the same as all other TS meals and NOT worth 2TS credits for them. It is a legitimate use to pay for them OOP and save their TS for them for a character breakfast at Ohana the last day.

I am planning on looking at menus and generally deciding when it will be better to pay OOP for someone (adult or child) and when to use a credit.

See - Disney can't assume that everyone paying OOP for children's meals is trying to cheat the system. Until the vacation is done and all the credits are used -they really don't know how you are going to use them!