How do you feel about this? Columbine Parents...

Originally posted by snoopy

Since that was not the case with the two boys at Columbine, I guess I am unclear on why the parents felt that the school let them down? Was there something specifically they cited that would place the blame with the school?
-------------------------------

It would appear that since some of the parents of the children who were killed filed lawsuits against the school, it didn't matter who was doing the bullying - the killers or the victims.. What DID matter is that bullying was in fact going on and the school did not address it.. No surprise there..
 
I still don't think their parents owe anyone an apology. The tragedy includes them, as they lost their children too and now have not only their grief but what must be a huge amount of guilt to go along with it. I pity them, regardless of whether or not their children were bullied or the bullies.

ITA.

I think the finger pointing, blaming and expecting apologies where there won't be any needs to stop.

Every parent, teacher and guidance counselor should take something from this awful tragedy and learn from it!

Regardless of whose fault it is, these kids are dead. Gone forever. I can't even imagine, and hope I never have to.
 
Maybe that is because they were the bullies?

___________________________________________________


That is a good possibility. I know those that lash out usually do because they are hurt but then again who knows on these two.
 
C.Ann, wasn't thinking you were being critical/. Thats' why I said in my previous reply I didn't know how I would react to my kid coming home wearing black nail polish and lipstick...because I don't know how I'd react. I'd like to think that I'd probably look into the situation a little further tha just thinking "kids will be kids" though. Maybe I'd lookinto it and find that my kid was a "good kid" who was trying to show some teenage individuality...I could only hope.

I went on to talk about my parents, because I DO know how they would have reacted!!!!!;)
 

Are those parents responisble for what those boys did? You bet they are. They "missed" an awful lot . They failed their children on many levels. It's not the shcool's fault, it's not the other kids' faults, it's not the jocks' fault, it's not the bullies fault. maybe they were trying to be the "cool"parent, maybe they were trying to be their kids' friends, maybe they just didn't feel like putting in the time and effort, the amount of commitment, that it takes to raise a decent kid. But what they didn't do was parent.

Again, they arent responsible. It's entirely possible to 'miss' alot of things. Its normal. NO parent, and i mean NO parent, knows, or catches everything their child does. And how on earth can you say it's not the 'bullies' fault? or its not the schools fault? Im sorry, but have you ever been bullied so much that you just cant take it anymore? Apparently, not alot of you have. Its hard. Both physically and mentally. Regaurdless of how you raise you kid, bad things can still happen. Those kids can still have breakdowns.
 
Melora---I hope I do as good a job raising my kids as you did, when mine get to be teenagers.

I'm glad to see so many people acknowledge how damaging bullying can be, and I hope that is one good thing that came from Columbine (whether or not the killers were the bullied or the bullies), is less tolerance for bullying in schools. I know a lot of schools have instituted conflict resolution programs and zero-tolerance for bullying, and maybe more parents will push for it now.

As others have pointed out, mental illness was probably a factor, too. But if my child were ever to do something so horrific, the very least I could do would be to apologize to the families of the victims. Even if I thought I had done everything in my power to prevent what happened, I would STILL apologize, hoping it would bring even a small amount of peace to those families.

The Harrises and Klebolds did fail as parents. The two boys had been in trouble, which was when their parents should have invaded their privacy (as Melora did) and gotten more involved in their lives. And they could have taken their kids out of that school if it was so bad. Not to mention that if Eric and Dylan were so depressed and/or angry I can't imagine they could keep that from their parents. The parents weren't poor, they had more options than alot of people. Even if they didn't KNOW what their kids were going to do, they do bear some level of responsibility, because they were the ones who knew their kids the best, and had the most power to intervene.

Unfortunately the violence just seems to continue. Last week, 4 high school students at a Baltimore area school were shot and badly hurt after a school dispute (involving bullying) escalated. Then I heard on the news last night that a teenage boy was fatally stabbed in D.C. after he and another young man were "slamming" each other (singing rap put-downs) and the young man lost his temper. Sometimes I feel like moving to Norway.
 
Not to mention that if Eric and Dylan were so depressed and/or angry I can't imagine they could keep that from their parents

:rolleyes: Okay, YES, you can infact hide that from parents. Most of you dont realize it, but its true. You'd be amazed at what your children hide from you. It's not all that hard to hide things... really.

Even if they didn't KNOW what their kids were going to do, they do bear some level of responsibility, because they were the ones who knew their kids the best, and had the most power to intervene.

Did they know their kids best? And what makes you think they had any more power of what happened than anyone else? What about the kids who harrassed the two boys? What about the school? What about the police?
 
Wouldn't we feel bad, horrified, and sorry if we gave birth to a Jeffrey Dhamer type?

I just wonder why the parents didn't notice the arsenal, or the fact that their son was so obsessed with guns,and death? Or some of the other signs, websites, etc.

You can't completely blame the school. Bullying doesn't always turn kids into mass murderers. Weren't these two boys also accused of bullying, or threatening some of the other kids at the school too?
 
This is still the most telling to me
In a story for Sunday's editions of The Post, Lozow related the first moments after the Klebolds learned of the shooting.

They had heard the gunmen may have been part of the Trench Coat Mafia, a loose group of students, including their son, who said athletes at Columbine bullied them.

"When early word came that the Trench Coat Mafia may be involved in the shooting, Tom ran downstairs to look for Dylan's trench coat, which he couldn't find," Lozow said.

"He was afraid Dylan might be involved. So he called me and offered to go to the school in hopes of negotiating with Dylan. It wasn't accepted."

Harris' parents, Wayne and Kathy Harris, have never spoken to reporters.

If they had no clue why was their first phone call to a lawyer?

I think they had clues and ignored them, if they had just tried to keep the boys apart it might have changed the outcome. The boys were on probation for a prior stunt and were making threats.

Part of why the school is being sued is not only because of the alleged bullying but that they didnt' act on the threats. The parents are also being sued.

Two good things have come out of the tragedy. 1) Bullying is taken more seriously and schools are trying to remove it from the environment. 2) Threats are taken seriously.

I don't believe there is any one cause for the tragedy, it was a combination of the many things discussed. I think it would be gracious of the parents not to make any excuses and even apologize if only to placate the other parents that have lost children. Are they to blame, no their child was. Could they have done things differently and maybe averted the tragedy? Very possibly just as the police and school administrators could have.
 
Originally posted by janette
This is still the most telling to me

If they had no clue why was their first phone call to a lawyer?

I think they had clues and ignored them, if they had just tried to keep the boys apart it might have changed the outcome. The boys were on probation for a prior stunt and were making threats.

Part of why the school is being sued is not only because of the alleged bullying but that they didnt' act on the threats. The parents are also being sued.

Two good things have come out of the tragedy. 1) Bullying is taken more seriously and schools are trying to remove it from the environment. 2) Threats are taken seriously.

I don't believe there is any one cause for the tragedy, it was a combination of the many things discussed. I think it would be gracious of the parents not to make any excuses and even apologize if only to placate the other parents that have lost children. Are they to blame, no their child was. Could they have done things differently and maybe averted the tragedy? Very possibly just as the police and school administrators could have.
-------------------------------------

Just for the heck of it, let's say they did have suspicions or knew there were some sort of problems.. Can anyone here state unequivocally that they DIDN'T do anything? That they hadn't spoken to a doctor or someone else?

I know on the DIS we're pretty open with family information because most of us don't know each other in "real" life, but if you were seeking help for your child with issues as serious as this, would you run all around town broadcasting it? If the parents had any hint that there were serious problems I'm sure there were many, many late night conversations between the two of them as to what to do about it but you know what? The very little help that IS out there is totally inadequate and short of having them institutionalized (which also is NOT easy), I imagine they were stuck between a rock and a hard place..
 
There is no question that the 2 boys spent many hours preparing for the attack on the school. They bought guns and practiced using them, they made video tapes, a web site, wrote journals.

Wouldn't any efforts have made at least a dent in the amount of time they seem to have had. I know as a parent that if my child was on probation for trouble they'd gotten into with a friend I'd at least try to limit the amount of time they spent with that friend.

This was not a hurt upset kid that went home got into the gun cabinet and brings a gun back to school. They knew what they wanted to do and from all reports were having a great time. They wanted to make a name for themselves and they did.

If they did try to get him help great, that still doesn't excuse their statements trying to shift blame.
 
I know on the DIS we're pretty open with family information because most of us don't know each other in "real" life, but if you were seeking help for your child with issues as serious as this, would you run all around town broadcasting it?
I would if they ended up shooting and killing 13 people. I mean, if they really took steps, you would think their lawyer would be telling the world that they were great parents who TRIED to get help. You would think thy would be the ones suing the school for ignoring their pleas for help or not doing anything to combat the probems the parents had been asking to be addressed (if those things happened) You don't hear a word, except "It's not our fault, we feel no need to apologize"
The two boys had been in trouble, which was when their parents should have invaded their privacy (as Melora did) and gotten more involved in their lives.
This is where I have a problem with the parents. They DID have clues. The kids were on probation for goodness sakes. Hello? Time to keep a closer eye on their comings and goings. Time to check out what the heck is going on with your kids! These kids weren't merely 'troubled' they were diabolical.

Even still, as a parent, my heart goes out to them. They learned the hard way. Unfortunately, other people were affected as well. In a horrible, awful way.

This is why I stress that is is so important to educate people about the signs of mental illness and push for better tools for early intervention, especially in teens.
 
Originally posted by poohandwendy
They DID have clues. The kids were on probation for goodness sakes. Hello? Time to keep a closer eye on their comings and goings. Time to check out what the heck is going on with your kids! These kids weren't merely 'troubled' they were diabolical.

-------------------------------

Have you ever HAD a child on probation? It is SUCH a joke - not to mention that any concerns voiced by the parents are immediately downplayed and treated as though they are TOTALLY insignificant.. Unless you have actually experienced this sort of thing it's easy to think that everything runs smoothly.. Only problem is we don't live in an "ideal" world.. Helpful programs and helpful doctors are far and few between and it can take years and YEARS to actually get anyone to LISTEN to you as a parent and take appropriate action..
 
Interesting article on Columbine:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/june99/columbine12.htm

-------------------------------

Dissecting Columbine's Cult of the Athlete

By Lorraine Adams and Dale Russakoff
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, June 12, 1999; Page A1

LITTLETON, Colo.—The state wrestling champ was regularly permitted to park his $100,000 Hummer all day in a 15-minute space. A football player was allowed to tease a girl about her breasts in class without fear of retribution by his teacher, also the boy's coach. The sports trophies were showcased in the front hall -- the artwork, down a back corridor.
Columbine High School is a culture where initiation rituals meant upperclass wrestlers twisted the nipples of freshman wrestlers until they turned purple and tennis players sent hard volleys to younger teammates' backsides. Sports pages in the yearbook were in color, a national debating team and other clubs in black and white. The homecoming king was a football player on probation for burglary.

All of it angered and oppressed Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, leading to the April day when they staged their murderous rampage here, killing 13 and wounding 21.

Columbine may be no different from thousands of high schools in glorifying athletes. But in the weeks since one of the worst school shootings in history, every aspect of what had seemed "normal" is now being reexamined. Increasingly, as parents and students replay images of life at Columbine, they are freeze-framing on injustices suffered at the hands of athletes, wondering aloud why almost no one -- not teachers, not administrators, not coaches, not most students, not parents -- took the problem seriously.

No one thinks the high tolerance for athletic mischief explains away or excuses the two boys' horrific actions. But some parents and students believe a schoolwide indulgence of certain jocks -- their criminal convictions, physical abuse, sexual and racial bullying -- intensified the killers' feelings of powerlessness and galvanized their fantasies of revenge.

It was clear in the first hours after the shootings that vengeance against athletes was a preoccupation of the two killers. Harris and Klebold began firing with the words "All the jocks stand up." They barked that "anybody with a white hat or a shirt with a sports emblem on it is dead."

But in the two months since that day, as pundits and politicians searched for an explanation of why, the national conversation moved away from those words, and even outside the walls of the school completely. It turned to the boys' families, where no clues have surfaced, to the mental illness of Harris -- he was on antidepressants -- to video games, to violent movies, to guns, which currently preoccupy Congress.

While the rest of the country looks elsewhere for explanations, the community here has resisted easy answers. Through their mourning and anguish, many parents and students have made a more difficult turn inward, to the culture of Columbine and the aspects of it that may have provoked two angry boys to such aggression. In the past two weeks, a task force has been formed to examine that atmosphere, and several of its members say that discipline, harassment and special treatment for athletes must be dissected without defensiveness.

"I don't think any one thing drove them to this," said member Joyce Hooker, a parent of two Columbine students. "But I think we need to say, 'Whoa. Why did they focus on athletes?' "

Their perspective is adolescent and simplistic, but dozens of interviews and a review of court records suggest that Harris's and Klebold's rage began with the injustices of jocks. The pair knew of instances where athletes convicted of crimes went without suspension from games or expulsion from school. They witnessed instances of athletes tormenting others while school authorities looked the other way. They believed that high-profile athletes could finagle their way out of jail.

In one episode, they saw state wrestling champion Rocky Wayne Hoffschneider shoving his girlfriend into a locker, in front of a teacher, who did nothing, according to a close friend. "We used to talk about Rocky a lot," said the friend, who asked not to be identified. "We'd say things like 'He should be in jail for the stuff he does.' " Another friend of Klebold's, Andrew Beard, remembers distinctly Klebold's rage at four football players' "getting off" after destroying a man's apartment last year.

Hoffschneider, who graduated last year and works in the Denver area at a construction company, declined to answer detailed questions. But he said in a brief interview that he never knew the killers and that any suggestion he escaped punishment for his misdeeds was erroneous.

Harris and Klebold were preoccupied with Hoffschneider, who became for many at Columbine a symbol of athletes' runaway sovereignty. On his Web site, Harris singled out Hoffschneider in the following passage: "LIARS!!!OH GAWWWWWWD I HATE LIARS. . . . Why must people lie so much! Especially about stupid things! Like . . . . my brand new hummer just broke down on the highway when I was going 250mph.' "

Athletes' torment of Harris and Klebold personally also was a factor. This past year, they and friend Brooks Brown were outside school when a carload of athletes, wearing their trademark white caps, threw a bottle at them, which shattered at their feet. Brown recalled Klebold saying, "Don't worry, man, it happens all the time."

Recalling many conversations with Harris and Klebold over the three years he knew them, Brown now feels the shooting "had to do with the injustice in our society and in the school."

"We all hated it -- hated the fact we were outcasts just simply because we weren't in sports," Brown said. "It's insane when you think about it, but it's real."

To some athletes and parents, this is guilt-induced revisionism. They point out that athletes moved in and out of a variety of cliques. Some were scholars, the majority well-behaved. These parents and students experienced a Columbine where camaraderie was strong, discipline evenhanded and harassment minimal. To say otherwise, they say, is to validate the mind-set of murdering madmen.

"They had no school spirit and they wanted to be different," Randy Thurmon, parent of a wrestler and football player, said of the killers. "Anyone who shows any kind of school spirit, any pride in the school, they're accepted."

The new introspection also has been resisted by Columbine school officials, who ignored the task force's invitation to their first meeting, members said. Coaches, teachers and principal Frank DeAngelis denied requests for interviews, according to Jefferson County schools spokesman Rick Kaufman. Kaufman said he would answer written questions, but then did not. He broke an appointment for a scheduled interview Thursday. Messages left for coaches, teachers and administrators at home went unanswered.

But one school official who serves on the board overseeing all Jefferson County schools believes that these issues cannot be dismissed so quickly.

"I do believe that in all of our schools athletes can appear to have a different status. I think it's okay if kids are working hard and they're good role models," said Jefferson County School Board member David DiGiacomo. "But to give them special privileges, I think we have to be careful."

With the first media bulletins of the shootings, Stephen Greene was on his car phone, calling a school hotline about his son's safety. He got voice mail and screamed out a message: "I knew something like this in this school could happen."

Greene's sense of foreboding dates to 1996, the year Hoffschneider transferred to Columbine after being expelled from a private school for fighting. He had other blemishes on his record -- a 1992 arrest for criminal mischief and a 1995 arrest relating to a "missing person." As juvenile cases, their outcomes were sealed.

The summer before Hoffschneider entered Columbine, his girlfriend's parents alleged in court papers that Hoffschneider's mother and sister kicked in their door one morning. Edmund Lemieux, the girl's father, said the Hoffschneider family "was abusive and physical towards us."

"It was a serious situation at the school," he said. Lemieux said he and his wife kept three of their children from attending Columbine when they learned that Hoffschneider -- a 215-pound football player who would go on to become a two-time state champion in wrestling -- had transferred to their children's school. Calls to the Hoffschneider family were not returned.

Within a month of school opening in the fall of 1996, Hoffschneider and another football player were teasing Stephen Greene's son Jonathan, who is Jewish. Their favorite gambit was singing about Hitler when he made a basket in gym class, Greene recalls. The gym teacher, Craig Place, who was also Hoffschneider's wrestling coach, did nothing, Greene said.

"They pinned him on the ground and did 'body twisters,' " Greene said. "He got bruises all over his body. Then the threats began -- about setting him on fire and burning him."

Greene went to Place, DeAngelis and his son's guidance counselor. "They said, 'This stuff can happen.' They looked at me like I was a problem," he said. Greene called the school board, which notified the police. Hoffschneider and the other athlete were charged with harassment, kicking and striking, court records show, and sentenced to probation. But Hoffschneider was allowed to continue his football and wrestling.

He also attracted a following. "He created a tough little group of guys -- probably seven or eight boys that were involved in sports, mostly football, wrestling, who began to take control of the school," said parent Cecelia Buckner. "They all wore white hats."

One of the group was Anthony A. Pyne, a 230-pound football player with a tribal band tattoo on his left arm. (Pyne's mother said her son would not comment, on the advice of his attorney.) After Christmas, Pyne began to tease Aundrea Harwick in English class about her breasts. Harwick went to the teacher, Tom Tonelli, who was also a Columbine football and wrestling coach. He suggested she move to a different seat.

A similar event happened at a Columbine wrestling match at Arvada High School. Pyne, "in front of everyone," said Harwick, broadcast to all within earshot: " 'Her breasts are getting bigger.' They're laughing -- the jocks were." She told Coach Place; he told her to sit on the other side of the gym.

She then went to a woman at a concession stand, who called the Arvada police. The officer issued Pyne a ticket. Because he was a juvenile, court records are not available, but Harwick said he pleaded guilty and paid a $50 fine.

The next day at school, administrator Rich Long, trying to persuade the girl to drop the charges, told Harwick and her mother that "by her going and getting the police, she's ruining his possibilities of playing on the football team," Elissa Harwick recalled. Pyne played football anyway.

Views of the Greene and Harwick stories differ. Football player Christopher Meier, who was a sophomore at the time, said, "I'm not defending him" but that administrators treated Hoffschneider fairly. Friends of Harris and Klebold noticed something else. "He always got things that we never could get," said Tad Boles -- "respect."

In Harris and Klebold's junior year, an unlikely challenge arose to the jocks' unchecked power -- from Columbine's social underclass. "All of us outcasts got jealous," recalled junior Pauline Colby.

Just as jocks wore an unofficial uniform to school -- white baseball caps -- the outcasts donned black, most noticeably trench coats. When jocks branded them "the Trenchcoat Mafia," they embraced the name.

In line at registration for new classes that year, football players pushed a 4-foot-9 freshman and called her dirty because she dressed like a hippie. On another occasion a boy called "Little Joey Stair," one of the wraithlike Trenchcoaters who was friends with Harris and Klebold, looked up in a hallway to see three football players shoving him into a locker, saying, "***, what are you looking at?" remembered classmate Mikala Scrodin.

"Last year there was a group of seniors who picked on everyone, not just the lowest people. Pretty much everyone was scared to take them on; if anyone said anything, they'd come after you, too. I don't think teachers realized it was serious, they just saw it as kids joking around," said Kevin Hofstra, a Yale-bound soccer team captain.

Hoffschneider's circle -- known as "the steroid poster boys" -- had their cafeteria table. On the other side of the room, shy skinny boys -- among them Harris and Klebold -- claimed a table, too. The athletes threw Skittles candy at them, said senior John Savage. Once, athletes threw a bagel close to the table, and the cafeteria emptied for fear of a fight. In the boys' bathrooms, a graffiti war broke out -- "Jocks rule!" Came the rejoinder: "Jocks suck!"

In the halls, body slams were common. Trenchcoat students got pushed more than most. "A football player reached out and stepped on the cord of one of these girls' Walkmen and it ripped out and fell and broke," remembered Melissa Snow, who graduated in 1998. "She just didn't say anything. For those kinds of kids it's really hard to stand up to a bunch of football players, who are all standing around thinking it's really funny what this guy did to you."

Harris and Klebold absorbed it all. As the year went by, they drifted closer to the Trenchcoaters, but unlike most students, they seemed to take the taunting to heart. "They just let the jocks get to them," Colby said. "I think they were taunted to their limits."

That January, during one of their nocturnal pranks, Harris and Klebold were arrested on juvenile charges of felony burglary for stealing from a van. They got the lightest sentence available: a diversion program, with the charges expunged after 10 months of counseling and community service. In fact, their own light sentence has provoked questions among some parents that school officials were lax not only toward athletes, but toward all sorts of student misbehavior.

Days later, on April 6, Hoffschneider and four other star athletes were arrested for ransacking the Denver apartment of a 22-year-old man, according to court records. The arrests made the papers. Within days, the athletes were back at school. Nine months later they pleaded guilty and got probation.

Something had changed by Harris and Klebold's senior year. What began as rage -- held inside -- turned into a vicious plan of revenge. But if it started with athletes, as it evolved, it morphed into a plot to destroy the entire school.

On April 20, some of the jocks who had tormented Klebold and Harris had already graduated. Hoffschneider had, though his brother was in the cafeteria that day. Among those who died, six were athletes, but none of them was considered among Klebold's or Harris's chief taunters, or among Hoffschneider's crowd. Whether the killers even recognized them as athletes is difficult to know.

Researcher Alice Crites contributed to this report.



Copyright 1999 The Washington Post Company

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone still feel there was no "bullying" going on in Columbine?
 
You do realize the difference between an opinion piece and facts right?
All of it angered and oppressed Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, leading to the April day when they staged their murderous rampage here, killing 13 and wounding 21.
There is no evidence that this is true.
It was clear in the first hours after the shootings that vengeance against athletes was a preoccupation of the two killers. Harris and Klebold began firing with the words "All the jocks stand up." They barked that "anybody with a white hat or a shirt with a sports emblem on it is dead."
They also hated blacks, whites, geeks, christians, racists (ironic huh?) and jews.
"I don't think any one thing drove them to this," said member Joyce Hooker, a parent of two Columbine students. "But I think we need to say, 'Whoa. Why did they focus on athletes?' "
The investigation found that they shot randomly and cornered people that were available. They had a 'hit list'...none on the hit list were targeted. Btw, Tiger Woods was also on the hit list. The boys hated everyone and everything.

Thai article is nothing but irresponsible supposition.

Btw, I never suggested that there was no bullying in Columbine. I said that there is no evidence that Harris and Klebold were bullied. Feel free to show evidence that I am wrong. Btw, have you actually read anything that came form the actual investigation? Have you read the diaries left behind? Or the Governors Commision Report on the Columbine tragedy?
 
Originally posted by C.Ann
-------------------------------

Have you ever HAD a child on probation? It is SUCH a joke - not to mention that any concerns voiced by the parents are immediately downplayed and treated as though they are TOTALLY insignificant.. Unless you have actually experienced this sort of thing it's easy to think that everything runs smoothly.. Only problem is we don't live in an "ideal" world.. Helpful programs and helpful doctors are far and few between and it can take years and YEARS to actually get anyone to LISTEN to you as a parent and take appropriate action..
Exactly why I think things need to change and mental illness awareness and early intervention are critical.
 
Wow, C. Ann, that article was tough to read. Regardless of whether or not the killers were bullied, clearly there were problems in that school. And probably in most large schools across America. I think the larger the school, the more impersonal and the easier for these kids who are victims of repressed rage to fall through the cracks.

The problem is what do we do about it? How do we ensure our kids work out their differences through peaceful means? How can we instill in kids the ability to be accepting of people across the board? And how can we ensure that the "haves" such as the stereotypical jocks, cheerleaders, homecoming queens and their ilk can't torture and generally make life miserable for the "have nots" and those who do not fit in? Its an age old problem, but clearly one that is no longer solved with fists, making the playing field a lot more dangerous. :( I wish I had the answers. When I read articles like the one you referenced it makes me want to take my babies under my wing and not let them go. I also would like to mentor a kid who needed someone to talk to. Perhaps that is all some of these kids need, is just someone to talk to.
 
Originally posted by Divamomto3
http://groups.msn.com/RebelsRevenge/lastwords.msnw

WARNING: It's a graphic transcript of the final videotape that Klebold and Harris made. They talk extensively about their parents in it.
-----------------------------------------------

You're right - very graphic.. :( It also alludes to the fact that their parents were NOT aware of the magnitude of the problem..

Definitely two very sick young men.. Now the question that remains is "what brought them to that point?"
 
Originally posted by poohandwendy
You do realize the difference between an opinion piece and facts right?
--------------------------------
Thai article is nothing but irresponsible supposition.
-------------------------------------------

Btw, I never suggested that there was no bullying in Columbine. I said that there is no evidence that Harris and Klebold were bullied. Feel free to show evidence that I am wrong. Btw, have you actually read anything that came form the actual investigation? Have you read the diaries left behind? Or the Governors Commision Report on the Columbine tragedy?
--------------------------------------

Yes I do realize the difference between an opinion piece and facts.. So basically what you are saying is that anyone interviewed for this article that stated opinions that don't agree with your own can be tossed aside - correct?

When there are direct quotes, I don't believe those areas fall under the guidelines of "supposition" - unless it doesn't fit your preconceived notions..

Have I read the "actual investigation"? Would that be anything like the "actual investigation" of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey? Ever hear of CYA ??
 












Save Up to 30% on Rooms at Walt Disney World!

Save up to 30% on rooms at select Disney Resorts Collection hotels when you stay 5 consecutive nights or longer in late summer and early fall. Plus, enjoy other savings for shorter stays.This offer is valid for stays most nights from August 1 to October 11, 2025.
CLICK HERE













DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest

Back
Top