How can we educate the renters

[mydogdrew]

It's not easy but it does not need to be overly complicated.

1. Give a higher priority to those who seem to know the system and offer all the required info to make a reservation. A couple emails before calling MS is necessary to establish that they are responsive and committed. Make it clear you are not a travel agent.

2. Give a priority to larger point requests.

3. I hate to say it but give a priority to requests for SSR, it's just easier to book.

4. Don't make reservations inside of 60 days or so unless you are very comfortable with the individual.

5. Never borrow points without cash in hand.

6. If they question your price, on to the next.

7. Don't feel obligated to respond in the order of receipt. It's your contract and if the 7th person seems like a smoother deal than the 1st - go with it.

8. When possible transfer points in as large amount (1X) as possible. This is easy.

9. Don't buy too large of a contract (or you'll be renting every year).

10. Keep in mind that renting is only going to be more difficult in the future.

I have met some great people along the way and your knowledge of all things Disney will help some folks out. That's a good thing.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Dear Carol

My Apologies to you

I did not mean for my prior post to be mean spirited or to be taken as any type of debate. I truly am interested in your impute. I realize that renting points is hard work. The bottom line for me is what we all can do to make the process go better for both parties. The stickys although they give a lot of information do little in making the process go smoothly.
Again my apologies to you.
Sincerely
Cyril PB

No problem, Cyril. I only provided the link(s) to show that we have had postings in the past directed towards renters and how they should educate themselves before renting.

As far as a forum to discuss renting, well that is allowed here on our DVC Operations board. Questions and answers regarding renting are posted all the time and I don't believe anyone has ever complained about having that type of discussion here on our boards.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I am considering renting my '09 pts. to pay for a Disney cruise. Most all of the responses have been to rent your points instead of using them for a cruise. Yet here on this thread, most here are saying they would never rent out their points. I think this topic hits some posters nerves, and they should explain thier position. Sometimes, it does benefit to rent. I think it was unfair to the OP how some of these responses were.

 

[DVC Mike]

I think the DVC system is somewhat complex and takes some time to understand. Many rental difficulties or misunderstandings are from good people with good intentions, who misunderstand the subtleties of the DVC system. Renters don't understand how renting a reservation from a DVC member differs from booking through CRO, and many new DVC members don't understand all the rules enough to anticipate problems -- either for the renter or for the owner.

If you're going to rent, do so to folks who have done some homework in advance to understand what is involved, or to family and friends, or to other DVC members. Otherwise, be prepared to spend some time explaining how DVC works to a lookie-loo...

The OP was raising the issue of how to educate the uninformed renter about DVC.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Sometimes, it does benefit to rent.

True, it is a benefit sometimes but you need to weigh the hassles involved in renting with the benfits derived from it.

We used our rental money to cruise a few years ago. This April we are on another Disney cruise and instead of renting points to pay for it, we saved up to pay for the cruise because it wasn't worth the hassle of what I went through the last time to do it again.

Anyone with the time and inclination can give renting a try but I probably won't be doing it again unless some unforseen circumstance arises that gives me no alternative.

HBC

 

[DisDaydreamer]

At least some portion of all of these private "rentals" results in less cash customers for Disney. This increases the amount of unsold DVC held points which increases the costs of exchanges for everyone. we are seeing this now in higher fees and less choice and higher point requirements. Personally, I think this renting thing is devaluing the whole ownership. just my two cents.

I have a hard time deciding where I fall on this issue. I think bottom line for me, if someone for some reason cannot use their points then they should be able to rent them. I own points for this year (own them) like anything else I own, I should be able to sell, transfer, or rent my property.

That being said, the problem from my point of view, is that it became a small industry and really did hurt sales. I think Disney should do everything in their power to stop commercial renting.

They have started to address this, but really allow too much to happen still with up to 20 reservations per year to happen before they are alerted to investigate. There must be some better way to monitor the style or pattern of making reservations to catch those who rent for ongoing for profit.

I think the down side to the crackdown has been the one and only point transfer per year (in or out). This really stops happy owners from making a reciprocal transaction. What I mean is I can't trade (transfer) my BWV points for VB points directly. If they would just allow two transactions per year it would solve the problem, and still prevent most commercial transfers.

I think with this one transfer rule, Disney has prevented many happy owners from finding an amicable or recipricol solution to unexpected problems. It is definitely in Disney's favor to do this. It makes people feel like they have to have more points or points in other resorts. I guess anything could be calculated to be a cost to owners by having Disney having lost revenue and passing it on to the DVC owners.

But then, DVC is a whole separate entity... so how do they pass on the cost of lost revenue to the owners.

I can't figure this all out... I need crisi to chime in and explain the bottom line to me.

crisi... calling you... please sort this out for me.

 

[Dean]

I think many DVC members make this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. While technically you may be renting your points, you really are simply securing a reservation and renting that reservation. That means it's a case of X room type for Y dollars for Z nights. One simply needs to keep early in their use year, avoid or minimize borrowing, have a simple but consistent policy that includes non refundability, have a set price without any negotiation and refuse to put any effort into it until the other party has agreed to the terms and is committed to securing the reservation. Then you just call and schedule at the appropriate time and the other party pays your deposit/amount at the appropriate time or you cancel if needed to protect yourself.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

True, it is a benefit sometimes but you need to weigh the hassles involved in renting with the benfits derived from it.

We used our rental money to cruise a few years ago. This April we are on another Disney cruise and instead of renting points to pay for it, we saved up to pay for the cruise because it wasn't worth the hassle of what I went through the last time to do it again.

Anyone with the time and inclination can give renting a try but I probably won't be doing it again unless some unforseen circumstance arises that gives me no alternative.

HBC

Fair enough, I respect your perspective on this. And it is through these boards that we owners also educate ourselves. I do think the DVC system makes renting very confusing for the renter, and very laborious for the owner. When to try it and when to just use the points, well I guess that is just a personal decision. But the testimonials are very important for new owners such as myself....and I think the other OP was just trying to get some advice.

 

[JimMIA]

My approach to OP's original question is that I've learned several important lessons in life. One of the lessons I've learned is "I can't change 'them'." There are simply too many of "them."

So...if something is not what I wish, my best approach is usually to change the one thing I have control over...me.

I personally don't rent, because I find it more trouble than it is worth -- to me...at this point in time. I don't have anything against what some call "casual renting." I'm glad we have that option -- and although I don't do it, I hope we never lose that option.

If I WERE a renter, however, my objective would not be to try to educate the masses in the nuances of DVC rentals. My approach would be like mydogdrew and Dean above -- to work out a strategy that works for me. I gave some of those ideas in my first post above: lurk and select, following criteria that make sense for your particular situation.

No matter what approach you take, I think anyone renting should realize that if they want princesses, they should go to the Akerhaus character meal. To find a prince or princess in DVC rentals, you're probably going to have to kiss quite a few frogs. It takes time, there will be frustrations along the way. That goes with the territory.

IMHO, the best response to that reality is to adjust my strategy...not try to reform the beast.

 

[icydog]

I think many DVC members make this a lot more complicated than it needs to be. While technically you may be renting your points, you really are simply securing a reservation and renting that reservation. That means it's a case of X room type for Y dollars for Z nights. One simply needs to keep early in their use year, avoid or minimize borrowing, have a simple but consistent policy that includes non refundability, have a set price without any negotiation and refuse to put any effort into it until the other party has agreed to the terms and is committed to securing the reservation. Then you just call and schedule at the appropriate time and the other party pays your deposit/amount at the appropriate time or you cancel if needed to protect yourself.

Once again, Dean and I are in agreement. I don't understand the problem. If you have points to rent:
1. Make sure you and the rentee are on the same page with pricing, room size, travel dates and extras like the dining plan and Magical Express.
2. Once you both have agreed about all the above criteria then, and only then, do you check for availability with MS
3. Once you know there will be a villa to meet the rentees needs you email him the information and figure out how he will pay you
4. You make the reservation only after you've been paid
5. You get the confirmation number and send it to the rentee
6. You mail the confirmation letter to the rentee as soon as you get it
7. You follow up with the rentee when he has returned home to find out if they had a nice time. If you did a good job with 1-6 they will be writting to you to tell you what fun they had because you made the process as painless as possible and as professional as you know how to make it.

That's the whole process in a list, in a nutshell, all inclusive, whatever you want to say, but if I rented my points that's the way I'd do it.

 

[DisDaydreamer]

Once again, Dean and I are in agreement. I don't understand the problem. If you have points to rent:
1. Make sure you and the rentee are on the same page with pricing, room size, travel dates and extras like the dining plan and Magical Express.
2. Once you both have agreed about all the above criteria then, and only then, do you check for availability with MS
3. Once you know there will be a villa to meet the rentees needs you email him the information and figure out how he will pay you
4. You make the reservation only after you've been paid
5. You get the confirmation number and send it to the rentee
6. You mail the confirmation letter to the rentee as soon as you get it
7. You follow up with the rentee when he has returned home to find out if they had a nice time. If you did a good job with 1-6 they will be writting to you to tell you what fun they had because you made the process as painless as possible and as professional as you know how to make it.

That's the whole process in a list, in a nutshell, all inclusive, whatever you want to say, but if I rented my points that's the way I'd do it.

Well said from someone who has not rented points before. Murphy's law trumps all sensibility. Don't mean to be snarky, but what happens when step 2 or 3 or 4 don't work out... What if you can't get the reservation wanted... I know... you start over with a new prospect.... What if that prospect doesn't get you all the money in your timeframe... I know... you start over with a new prospect. Forget it. Like Deb says.. find someone you know and rent or give them the points. It is just not worth the stress and hassle.

 

[Dean]

Well said from someone who has not rented points before. Murphy's law trumps all sensibility. Don't mean to be snarky, but what happens when step 2 or 3 or 4 don't work out... What if you can't get the reservation wanted... I know... you start over with a new prospect.... What if that prospect doesn't get you all the money in your timeframe... I know... you start over with a new prospect. Forget it. Like Deb says.. find someone you know and rent or give them the points. It is just not worth the stress and hassle.

Things won't always work out certainly. I've had a handful of issues over the years, usually from DVC members rather than from non members including one member of this board. The process that I summarized and that Marylyn laid out more specifically does work. I have 12 years of experiencing in renting DVC and non DVC timeshares to say so. While I want to be fair to any renter, I must protect myself first. If that means they can rent cheaper somewhere else or they are not comfortable with my terms, better to know up front and save everyone a lot of hassle. If you agree in principle and the time is not available, you both move on. Sometimes a renter wants a specialty item like BWV standard view or BW view. I query up front if they want the preferred view if the other is not available, that way be both know and can move forward. My terms are 25% when you see the confirmation and the remainder at 120 days out all non-refundable. If I am not working with borrowed points and am early in my use year, I have plenty of time to make alternate arrangements if needed. It also gives me time to be patient. I'm not sitting there looking at the calendar and canceling if someone is a day late, it simply gives me time to remind them and ascertain if they are likely to come through. But if they jerk me around or don't follow through, I have options and can move forward.

I have said before and will say again, the risks in renting done properly are infinitely smaller than the inherent risks in any of the exchange options. Thus I'd assume that anyone who thinks the risks in renting are unreasonable would feel the same about the exchange options to be consistent.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Cyril, I was one who said I wouldn't rent, but if we needed to we would rent to friends or give our points to friends or relatives. Luckily for us, we haven't needed to give them away or sell them to friends.

I bought my DVC points for my family's personal trips. I never bought to subsidize anyone else's vacation. We did a DCL cruise several years ago and used points for all three of us. Used up a whole lot of points. But that was the purpose of buying the points. To use them to take vacations.

We recently decided to go places where our points can't take us. So we sold two of our contracts and are working on selling a third. Plus we were just tired of giving DVC so much money in dues every year. So we take fewer DVC vacations and more other vacations. Works for us.

 

[rinkwide]

...the risks in renting done properly are infinitely smaller than the inherent risks in any of the exchange options...

Spend some time over on the resort boards and you might end up thinking the same about the CRO.

 

[Gary K. D.]

I think most of this comes down to the relative availability of points offered by the owners. The more points that are offered, the less the rental fee per point is charged. I am higher than most of the point offerings that I see on the Board today so that I do not get into calling Disney repeatedly to establish availability if the rentor is not willing to pay my price. With the premium Resorts @ $4.50 per point maintainence and a current cost of over $4.50, I am not going to compete with those foolish enough to offer points @ $10..00 or less. As long as the rentors feel that they can play one member off against the other to beat them up on the price and the owners are willing to play that game, those members willl always be repeatedly calling for availability and come up dry when the inquiror has found the points a few cents cheaper.

IMO Education of the renter is not the problem...education of the member is. There are always more people to desire to rent points from members than there are points available and if you offer your points at your home Resort over 7th month window, you won't get into repeated calling for availability for next week or next month..

Just my thoughts.

 

[icydog]

I think most of this comes down to the relative availability of points offered by the owners. The more points that are offered, the less the rental fee per point is charged. I am higher than most of the point offerings that I see on the Board today so that I do not get into calling Disney repeatedly to establish availability if the rentor is not willing to pay my price. With the premium Resorts @ $4.50 per point maintainence and a current cost of over $4.50, I am not going to compete with those foolish enough to offer points @ $10..00 or less. As long as the rentors feel that they can play one member off against the other to beat them up on the price and the owners are willing to play that game, those members willl always be repeatedly calling for availability and come up dry when the inquiror has found the points a few cents cheaper.

IMO Education of the renter is not the problem...education of the member is. There are always more people to desire to rent points from members than there are points available and if you offer your points at your home Resort over 7th month window, you won't get into repeated calling for availability for next week or next month..

Just my thoughts.

I have to agree. I rarely call for availability. I only call when a price has been established and when the room and time of yr is set. Then I call. Yes I also agree $10 a point is ridiculous but some people are desperate.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Once again, Dean and I are in agreement. I don't understand the problem. If you have points to rent:
1. Make sure you and the rentee are on the same page with pricing, room size, travel dates and extras like the dining plan and Magical Express.
2. Once you both have agreed about all the above criteria then, and only then, do you check for availability with MS
3. Once you know there will be a villa to meet the rentees needs you email him the information and figure out how he will pay you
4. You make the reservation only after you've been paid
5. You get the confirmation number and send it to the rentee
6. You mail the confirmation letter to the rentee as soon as you get it
7. You follow up with the rentee when he has returned home to find out if they had a nice time. If you did a good job with 1-6 they will be writting to you to tell you what fun they had because you made the process as painless as possible and as professional as you know how to make it.

That's the whole process in a list, in a nutshell, all inclusive, whatever you want to say, but if I rented my points that's the way I'd do it.

Actually, I do think that is well said......and I have rented out points, probably a half a dozen times or so. I pretty much follow the outline above, except for the get the money first part. I don't find that terribly fair to the renter, and there is little risk in making a reservation that can be cancelled if deposit and payment terms aren't followed. That said, I never borrow points to secure a rental reservation, unless I know the person and we are clear on cancellation terms.

But I really do find renting to be a very easy thing to do. Perhaps I've been lucky. Perhaps I haven't rented frequently enough to run into significant problems. I don't really know. What I do know is that I'm very selective in the times I rent, as well as the rental request posts I respond to. That has really led to a number of very enjoyable transactions, opportunities where I've had the pleasure to help people have a great vacation (I've had several repeat customers, and that helps), while I pick up some extra cash for points I otherwise wouldn't have used. Heck, we just finished making our plans for next year and I determined I had some points available to rent. I spent an hour looking over the R/T board and contacting a previous renter who was interested, and in no time I had a couple hundred points rented and my dues will be covered for the year. Yes, I'll have an hour or so of leg work to do getting a transfer made and securing a reservation when the 11 month window opens, but the effort is well worth it, IMHO. Should one of the committments I have fall through I've invested very little time and effort.

As long as the rentors feel that they can play one member off against the other to beat them up on the price and the owners are willing to play that game, those members willl always be repeatedly calling for availability and come up dry when the inquiror has found the points a few cents cheaper.............and if you offer your points at your home Resort over 7th month window, you won't get into repeated calling for availability for next week or next month.

I also agree with these thoughts. I won't respond to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who wants to rent here, there or the the other place within the seven month window. I pursue people who seem to know what they want at the resorts I own, and want it between the 7 and 11 month window. I price firm and point out the value of securing early reservations from a member with good references. If someone is only willing to pay $10 and price is more important to them than service and piece of mind, I tell them they know where to find me if they change their mind. It is better to be patient and find the right customer than it is to make a full court press to rent to anyone as soon as possible.

That said, I agree with the OP that if many of the people who wanted to rent were more educated, it could make the process easier for everyone. Used to be the R/T board was a place where questions could be asked and answered. Now it is much more of a restricted classified. Perhaps another board strictly related to rental Q&A could be useful, but I suspect that aspect of the original R/T board was curtailed for a reason.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...That's the whole process in a list, in a nutshell, all inclusive, whatever you want to say, but if I rented my points that's the way I'd do it.

I have to agree. I rarely call for availability. I only call when a price has been established and when the room and time of yr is set. Then I call. Yes I also agree $10 a point is ridiculous but some people are desperate.

I'm confused. I thought you said you didn't rent points. Not that it really matters.

 

[icydog]

I'm confused. I thought you said you didn't rent points. Not that it really matters.

"...That's the whole process in a list, in a nutshell, all inclusive, whatever you want to say, but if I rented my points that's the way I'd do it."

Good point and well taken:

I have been talking about renting my excess points for years now on this forum. I thought everyone on the disboards knew that. I was speaking with my tongue firmly in my cheek when I made this statement. I also figured folks, once they saw my to do list, would know that I rented points out. I made a whole long list and then said If I rented my points that's how I'd do it.
As an aside, and maybe because it has happened before on the disboards, but I may have done some subconsious covering because I also don't wish to incur the wrath of those who don't like me because I rent some of my points out.

"I only call when a price has been established and when the room and time of yr is set. Then I call".

This is a trueism. I only call when the rentee has seen my price and has picked a date, a resort, and the villa size. When we are both on the same page-- then I call.

 

[keys2kingdom]

I'm confused. I thought you said you didn't rent points. Not that it really matters.

snicker, snicker