How big of a failure is My Magic "Plus" ??? An Interesting Read Here!!!

[wdwmom0f3]

We used the new system thanksgiving week and we loved it! I liked having fast passes ahead of time so I didn't have to run all over the parks getting them. It's funny because I remember saying years ago that Disney needs some kind of centralized fast pass distribution system so we didn't have to hop all over the parks to get them, and now fast pass plus is here. They read my mind!

While I do wish you could get more than three fast passes, and I hate the tiered system, which didn't effect me because mine were booked before that change was made, I do like the flexibility of being able to make changes if needed to the fast passes. I also like being able to sleep in one day and still have fast passes for e rides waiting for me. I found the bands to be very easy to use and it made things easy for me with my kids. I didn't have to worry about them losing their tickets, and they loved the freedom of being able to buy things as they needed something without asking for cash. I seriously wish I had them for everyday use!

 

[tjkraz]

I can't remember the exact amount of time but Uni recouped their WWoHP investment very quickly.

Since phase 1 of WWoHP was a pretty modest investment (one new attraction + shops...$250 mil total), it's certainly possible. Although I would be curious to see where you're getting this information.

Nevertheless, it's not just about WWoHP. We're also talking about Despicable Me, Simpsons expansion, Transformers, next phase of HP and more.

Props to Universal for spending the money. It was long overdue. But WDW still has far more to offer than US/IOA. Especially for folks who aren't into extreme coasters and simulators.

The main difference here is that US has injected a boatload of money just over the last 5 years. Disney has been investing for more than 40 years.

Uni did have room to grow and they stepped up. That doesn't mean Disney needs to stop innovating. The parks are getting tired. The new Fantasyland addition is a joke. The last thrill ride was EE in 2006 and family ride, TSM, in 2008. Bracelets and making ride reservations 60 days in advance will not attract customers like new attractions would.

That remains to be seen.

Like I said in another post, history has shown that most new attractions don't result in a dramatic uptick in attendance. And Disney has decades of data on attraction openings to back this up.

Disney reported record attendance in 2013 despite the supposed "tired" parks. The entire MDE / FP+ system gives WDW a significant technology advantage over US, Sea World, Busch Gardens and all other competitors.

Undoubtedly some people have grown disenchanted with WDW. But that happens all the time...and has been happening for years. MDE has the potential to replace one type of lost business with another type of new business. Time will tell if it works...

 

[Donut23]

I think you vastly overestimate the number of people who have never been to Walt Disney World, yet would suddenly be enticed by new attractions.

Disney has its bases thoroughly covered. They have characters which appeal to all ages: Mickey & Friends, princesses, pirates, Star Wars, Pixar, Muppets, Pooh. They have experiences to suit all ages and tastes: coasters, simulators, water rides, kiddie rides, stage shows, parades, fireworks, dining.

What could Disney unveil which would make someone who has never visited stand up and shout "NOW I have to go!"?

Meanwhile, there are millions of families who previously went to WDW and were completely disappointed with the experience. Most common reasons are crowd levels and wait times. Perhaps many of them should have prepared better or expected large crowds during peak periods. Nevertheless, they've vowed to never return after paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for a trip and not being able to ride a signature attraction like Space Mountain or Toy Story Mania.

Picture this group being told they can not only be guaranteed a ride on Toy Story Mania--with zero wait time--AND it can be reserved before they even leave home. Same for Fantasmic viewing, a photo with Mickey and a spot on Main Street to watch the parade.

NOW you've got people's attention.

FastPass+ isn't aimed at repeat guests who already know the best approaches to touring the parks. It isn't designed for people whose response to exhausted Soarin' FP supply is "oh well, we can just ride it later in the week or on our next visit."

If there are any big attendance gains to be realized from FP+, it's from people who have been to the Disney parks and never want to go back because they weren't astute enough to keep up with the pros. The people who refused to stand in a 75 minute Standby line for Haunted Mansion or POTC on the day after Christmas. Or who were foolish to arrive at DHS at 11am, thinking they could still get a FP for TSM.

This is the group who could be swayed to give WDW another try when given greater control over their vacation experience.

Time will tell and I am very patient.

I will say one last time. This was not created for our pleasure. That's just Disney spin to keep the huddled masses quiet.

I return the floor here to the debate and I'll go back to my position in the peanut gallery. I do enjoy watching the conversations.

Have a great 2014 everybody!

 

[tjkraz]

I will say one last time. This was not created for our pleasure.

Obviously Disney has financial motives for just about everything they do. But that doesn't mean guests won't benefit from FP+...which is what your comment seems to imply.

As it currently exists, FP+ addresses a number of shortcomings of the original system:

1) No longer any need to criss-cross the parks picking up FP tickets (often separating members of our party.)
2) Now have control of return times for attractions. I can pick any return time of my choosing rather than the old "take it or leave it" approach.
3) Don't have to plan an early park arrival in order to have any chance of getting a FP for select attractions.

There are also clear benefits to adding FP to things like Fantasmic viewing, parade viewing, character meet-and-greets, etc. I don't see Fantasmic often anymore but 60-90 minute wait times for that were ridiculous. And parades & character meets were similarly disappointing.

I "tested" FP+ a couple weeks ago and felt it enhanced our trip for all the reasons listed above. My wife and I even burned one of our FPs on the Town Square meet with Mickey. Picked a time around our arrival at the park and we were in-and-out within 10 minutes.

My only real complaint about FP+ is that I don't think 3 daily entitlements is enough. Take that up to 4 or 5...even if just for Disney hotel guests...and I'll be perfectly content.

Just because Disney has profit-making motives for the MDE program doesn't mean it won't enhance the overall experience for most theme park guests.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

They WILL fix it. It will NEVER be as efficient as it could be but the Beancounters will squeeze more $$$$$ out of us and the Spin will keep Uncle Bobby and other Grownups thinking they can continue to pour park $$$$$ overseas and ignore our special WDW because we are too stupid to notice.

Yeah...this is pretty much it.

Unfortunately they are 97% right by my estimate...lemmings

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Part of the reason is that Universal had far more room to grow. Disney has more guests than ever and still has all the biggest attended theme parks in the world. It amazed me how things have changed since 2000.

More guests are better but they bring problems when attendance is so high. That's why MM+ is so important. It will help manage crowds and provide a good experience to customers.

I dispute the concept of Disney suffering from "too much attendance"...

There attendance since animal
Kingdom has been pretty flat or in proportion only to population growth...

As been pointed out hundreds of times... They have now had more people drawn across the calendar... Reducing the amount of "slow times"...in some ways that may actually decrease crowds at peak times.

With All due respect - they are not implementing this new system to "ease crowd issues"...it's for limiting costs and to attempt to induce more spending

 

[Yellowstonetim]

I dispute the concept of Disney suffering from "too much attendance"...

There attendance since animal
Kingdom has been pretty flat or in proportion only to population growth...

As been pointed out hundreds of times... They have now had more people drawn across the calendar... Reducing the amount of "slow times"...in some ways that may actually decrease crowds at peak times.

With All due respect - they are not implementing this new system to "ease crowd issues"...it's for limiting costs and to attempt to induce more spending

Yes nobody on these boards complains of long lines and too many people. And Magic Kingdom has almost 3 times the attendance of Universal in 2012 after Universal had a 2.5% increase!!!!

When it comes to crowds, Disney is in a completely different realm than Universal and therefore has a completely different crowd management issue. Compounded by 4 parks. And the Disney World park with the least attendance, Animal Kingdom, has more than half again as much attendance as Universal!!

1. Magic Kingdom: 17,536,000 (+2.3% change)
2. Disneyland Park: 15,963,000 (-1.1% )
3. Tokyo Disneyland: 14,847,000 (+8.5%)
4. Tokyo Disney Sea: 12,656,000 (+8.5%)
5. Disneyland Park, Disneyland Paris: 11,200,000 (+1.9%)
6. Epcot: 11,063,000 (+2.2%)
7. Disney’s Animal Kingdom: 9,998,000 (+2.2%)
8. Disney’s Hollywood Studios: 9,912,000 (+2.2%)
9. Universal Studios Japan: 9,700,000 (+14.1%)
10. Islands of Adventure: 7,981,000 (+4%)

11. Disney California Adventure: 7,775,000 (+22.6%)
12. Ocean Park (Hong Kong): 7, 436,000 (+6.9%)
13. Everland (South Korea): 6,853,000 (+4.3%)
14. Hong Kong Disneyland: 6,700,000 (+13.6%)
15. Lotte World (South Korea): 6,383,000 (10.4%)
16. Universal Studios Orlando: 6,195,000 (+2.5%)
17. Universal Studios Hollywood: 5,912,000 (+15%)

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yes nobody on these boards complains of long lines and too many people. And Magic Kingdom has almost 3 times the attendance of Universal in 2012 after Universal had a 2.5% increase!!!!

When it comes to crowds, Disney is in a completely different realm than Universal and therefore has a completely different crowd management issue. Compounded by 4 parks. And the Disney World park with the least attendance, Animal Kingdom, has more than half again as much attendance as Universal!!

1. Magic Kingdom: 17,536,000 (+2.3% change)
2. Disneyland Park: 15,963,000 (-1.1% )
3. Tokyo Disneyland: 14,847,000 (+8.5%)
4. Tokyo Disney Sea: 12,656,000 (+8.5%)
5. Disneyland Park, Disneyland Paris: 11,200,000 (+1.9%)
6. Epcot: 11,063,000 (+2.2%)
7. Disney’s Animal Kingdom: 9,998,000 (+2.2%)
8. Disney’s Hollywood Studios: 9,912,000 (+2.2%)
9. Universal Studios Japan: 9,700,000 (+14.1%)
10. Islands of Adventure: 7,981,000 (+4%)

11. Disney California Adventure: 7,775,000 (+22.6%)
12. Ocean Park (Hong Kong): 7, 436,000 (+6.9%)
13. Everland (South Korea): 6,853,000 (+4.3%)
14. Hong Kong Disneyland: 6,700,000 (+13.6%)
15. Lotte World (South Korea): 6,383,000 (10.4%)
16. Universal Studios Orlando: 6,195,000 (+2.5%)
17. Universal Studios Hollywood: 5,912,000 (+15%)

Gee...there's a list of attendance? I had no idea...

Maybe there is some data out there on comparative size of the parks... Or maybe even the land mass that Disney world occupies and comparing that to all the other places on that list?
Wouldn't that be something?

Ok...but seriously...I sat for hours upon hours and looked at the hotel inventory and long term central forecasts...I kinda know the drill. The three or so annual trips since then probably helps too...and I people watch...no lines over ten minutes are tolerated... I.e. "Iets eat/drink instead"

Disney experienced large jumps in attendance roughly 85-97 as they brought new things online...the expectations on animal kingdom fell short and they have never had a significant "spike" since.

That's just the truth in numbers.

Of course Disney is huge in comparison to the others...but they had a 25 year headstart and huge land and economic opportunity cost advantages (as in the majority of the complex was constructed at a much lower cost than what Uni can do now...so much more was possible/ accomplished)

My opinion...supported by some data and a non-"laymans" experience...is that Disney's crowd manageability is not significantly more difficult than it was 15 years ago...probably better on the whole. The two biggest reasons are fastpass and spreading crowds out to what used to be "low" periods. (September free dining anyone?)

But frankly the assessments of when parks are "packed" or not around here are incredibly impatient/spoiled these days in the aggregate.

My anecdote was that I waited 2 hours to ride pirates in 1986 and about 1:45 minutes in 1992....when the ride was 13 and 19 years old respectively.

Or the two consecutive walk ons for me and my son on Everest in November at 10 am...it that "bear" of a 20 minute wait for tower of terror at 1 pm on a Saturday...

Yeah...life's tough these days...had to get radio tag bands meant for tracking and purchasing ease to "help the guest"

But what do I know?

 

[Yellowstonetim]

Gee...there's a list of attendance? I had no idea...

Maybe there is some data out there on comparative size of the parks... Or maybe even the land mass that Disney world occupies and comparing that to all the other places on that list?
Wouldn't that be something?

Ok...but seriously...I sat for hours upon hours and looked at the hotel inventory and long term central forecasts...I kinda know the drill. The three or so annual trips since then probably helps too...and I people watch...no lines over ten minutes are tolerated... I.e. "Iets eat/drink instead"

Disney experienced large jumps in attendance roughly 85-97 as they brought new things online...the expectations on animal kingdom fell short and they have never had a significant "spike" since.

That's just the truth in numbers.

Of course Disney is huge in comparison to the others...but they had a 25 year headstart and huge land and economic opportunity cost advantages (as in the majority of the complex was constructed at a much lower cost than what Uni can do now...so much more was possible/ accomplished)

My opinion...supported by some data and a non-"laymans" experience...is that Disney's crowd manageability is not significantly more difficult than it was 15 years ago...probably better on the whole. The two biggest reasons are fastpass and spreading crowds out to what used to be "low" periods. (September free dining anyone?)

But frankly the assessments of when parks are "packed" or not around here are incredibly impatient/spoiled these days in the aggregate.

My anecdote was that I waited 2 hours to ride pirates in 1986 and about 1:45 minutes in 1992....when the ride was 13 and 19 years old respectively.

Or the two consecutive walk ons for me and my son on Everest in November at 10 am...it that "bear" of a 20 minute wait for tower of terror at 1 pm on a Saturday...

Yeah...life's tough these days...had to get radio tag bands meant for tracking and purchasing ease to "help the guest"

But what do I know?

Animal Kingdom was 6 million in 1998 and 10 million in 2012. That is an increase of more than 50% in 12 years. I don't see how this would not affect lines. The idea that things have not significantly changed doesn't seem to be supported by attendance numbers even factoring a slight movement from peak to non-peak times. And a lot of people here talk about how much crowds have increased since 2000. That isn't just impatience. I noticed it too. Yes, it is hard to compare as Disney is so different in many ways, but other than Animal Kingdom, park size is not that different from many other locations.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Animal Kingdom was 6 million in 1998 and 10 million in 2012. That is an increase of more than 50% in 12 years. I don't see how this would not affect lines. The idea that things have not significantly changed doesn't seem to be supported by attendance numbers even factoring a slight movement from peak to non-peak times. And a lot of people here talk about how much crowds have increased since 2000. That isn't just impatience. I noticed it too. Yes, it is hard to compare as Disney is so different in many ways, but other than Animal Kingdom, park size is not that different from many other locations.

Animal kingdom opened on April 22, 1998... Or approximately 5 months into the year...

So the "increase" in attendance in 1999 was
Single digits if not actually a loss...

It went up in 2000 and then stayed flat or declined for several Years thereafter...and I can tell you that geopolitical events in lower manhattan only had "something" to do with that...attendance was dropping through August 2001 due to the post millenium drag at wdw. Animal kingdom was rating badly and very sluggish for a new park (something quickly continued at California adventure and studios Paris shortly thereafter...the fact that they were all overpriced, incomplete parks might have had something to do with that).

Another example that correlates was the Animal kingdom lodge... Which opened in April 2001 at the second highest rack rate at wdw...Eisner termed it as the "second flagship" Hotel at the grand opening...and was quickly slashed down because they couldn't get anybody in it. Eisner though... To be fair...made so much scratch off the lion king that he couldn't help but pat himself on the back as much as possible... Including over 2 billion dollars in construction costs in Osceola county, Florida to celebrate it. Grain of salt

Perhaps the fact that they took 1/4 of the room inventory at "Jambo" and converted it to timeshares 5 years later might be indicative of something as well...as it had never been done before...or since.

My point on this is that animal
Kingdom has vastly underperformed and it's as expensive as hell to operate. Evidenced by want can only generously described as "minimal" investment since. Whether its zoo, thematic, or poorly designed and constructed ( I contend it's equal parts all three)... The people just don't catch on to it still. It's still the " ok... We're done with that" park.

The other parks have had raw number growth consistent with the Increase in the traveling population - in most cases - and expanding markets.
MK 15-17, EPCOT 10ish, MGM 9-10 ish, ak 9-10ish

You can count on that...EPCOT has actually slipped and experienced some declines... Which is not "normal" in a Disney park. But people are dumbing themselves down more with each passing day.. .Frankly... And EPCOT is lost on an increasing number ( and some blatant mismanagement). Who wants to learn and respect? Please...

And we'll leave the heavy, unprecedented period of discounting that has propped up the numbers ... Even if prices have increased and DVC has provided an expanding guaranteed backbone ( rough estimate is about 4,000 large capacity units on property booked nearly 100% of the time...except Saratoga, of course )...completely untouched. (A good lawyer doesn't leave a huge fact out of evidence... But I'm playing a bad one on TV for this purpose)

And DVCers tend largely to lean towards " diners and strollers" than the type that shows up at rope drop and sprints towards fastpasses and lines...
The contracts are sold to grandpas and parents that travel frequently... So they appreciate the environment but often are " thrill is gone " on attractions...
Why on earth waste an hour on soarin when you'll be back in 4 months guaranteed?

Your point seems to be "they needed crowd control to " help" the poor paying customers with the growing throngs of attendees"

If that is the stance... And I definitely could be wrong here...
I reject every part of that stance, from every angle...past, present, and future.

And my whole dribble... Except the exact date of earth day 1998 (I was one day off dammit)... Was from memory... Didnt google anything else.

Just sayin

What they are most definitely doing... Bank this... Is squeezing more money out of everyone across the board... Even the discount packages... To post record earnings and profits. You food costs twice what it did in many places ten years ago... As do you're tickets. That's not " inflation".

 

[DebbieB]

Animal kingdom opened on April 22, 1998... Or approximately 5 months into the year...

So the "increase" in attendance in 1999 was
Single digits if not actually a loss...

It went up in 2000 and then stayed flat or declined for several Years thereafter...and I can tell you that geopolitical events in lower manhattan only had "something" to do with that...attendance was dropping through August 2001 due to the post millenium drag at wdw. Animal kingdom was rating badly and very sluggish for a new park (something quickly continued at California adventure and studios Paris shortly thereafter...the fact that they were all overpriced, incomplete parks might have had something to do with that).

Another example that correlates was the Animal kingdom lodge... Which opened in April 2001 at the second highest rack rate at wdw...Eisner termed it as the "second flagship" Hotel at the grand opening...and was quickly slashed down because they couldn't get anybody in it. Eisner though... To be fair...made so much scratch off the lion king that he couldn't help but pat himself on the back as much as possible... Including over 2 billion dollars in construction costs in Osceola county, Florida to celebrate it. Grain of salt

Perhaps the fact that they took 1/4 of the room inventory at "Jambo" and converted it to timeshares 5 years later might be indicative of something as well...as it had never been done before...or since.

My point on this is that animal
Kingdom has vastly underperformed and it's as expensive as hell to operate. Evidenced by want can only generously described as "minimal" investment since. Whether its zoo, thematic, or poorly designed and constructed ( I contend it's equal parts all three)... The people just don't catch on to it still. It's still the " ok... We're done with that" park.

The other parks have had raw number growth consistent with the Increase in the traveling population - in most cases - and expanding markets.
MK 15-17, EPCOT 10ish, MGM 9-10 ish, ak 9-10ish

You can count on that...EPCOT has actually slipped and experienced some declines... Which is not "normal" in a Disney park. But people are dumbing themselves down more with each passing day.. .Frankly... And EPCOT is lost on an increasing number ( and some blatant mismanagement). Who wants to learn and respect? Please...

And we'll leave the heavy, unprecedented period of discounting that has propped up the numbers ... Even if prices have increased and DVC has provided an expanding guaranteed backbone ( rough estimate is about 4,000 large capacity units on property booked nearly 100% of the time...except Saratoga, of course )...completely untouched. (A good lawyer doesn't leave a huge fact out of evidence... But I'm playing a bad one on TV for this purpose)

And DVCers tend largely to lean towards " diners and strollers" than the type that shows up at rope drop and sprints towards fastpasses and lines...
The contracts are sold to grandpas and parents that travel frequently... So they appreciate the environment but often are " thrill is gone " on attractions...
Why on earth waste an hour on soarin when you'll be back in 4 months guaranteed?

Your point seems to be "they needed crowd control to " help" the poor paying customers with the growing throngs of attendees"

If that is the stance... And I definitely could be wrong here...
I reject every part of that stance, from every angle...past, present, and future.

And my whole dribble... Except the exact date of earth day 1998 (I was one day off dammit)... Was from memory... Didnt google anything else.

Just sayin

What they are most definitely doing... Bank this... Is squeezing more money out of everyone across the board... Even the discount packages... To post record earnings and profits. You food costs twice what it did in many places ten years ago... As do you're tickets. That's not " inflation".

Until they tore down the north wing of the Contemporary and made BLT. Now doing the same at the Poly (converting buildings).

 

[Robbi]

Until they tore down the north wing of the Contemporary and made BLT. Now doing the same at the Poly (converting buildings).

At the CR, they didn't convert pre-existing rooms to DVC though. They're doing that at Rapa Nui and Tahiti, good. They need to do something at that resort. I guess they'll wait to see what the demand is before they build additional units?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Until they tore down the north wing of the Contemporary and made BLT. Now doing the same at the Poly (converting buildings).

Right on schedule... I Knew that would be the first comment...

The north contemporary wing was a very outdated and unpopular 160 rooms that were replaced with 330 high capacity units
With facility upgrades...

That's just a "tad" different than taking out about 200 rooms in a hotel that was 5 years old
When construction started...and the result was "less" units of DVC...which is not the standard business model.

The poly is a combination of taking one lodge out while building a significant new development...

And eventually the contemporary will be shaped like a "U" or have some type of new development on the south as well...one could safely bet.

I hear ya...but honestly it's not the same.

The closet is when they shut down the failed Disney institute and threw up the pastel monstrosity known as "Saratoga"...but even that doesn't really qualify as taking high end useful inventory out of play.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

At the CR, they didn't convert pre-existing rooms to DVC though. They're doing that at Rapa Nui and Tahiti, good. They need to do something at that resort. I guess they'll wait to see what the demand is before they build additional units?

Safe to say "the highest in DVC history"

We never got the full plans... But DVC reps at the kiosks seem to think it will be a grand Floridian type tower and the floating villas...

Though I believe no one with a nametag...that makes the most sense.

Honestly...I'm shocked the unit at the GF is only as big as it is...but they have some space issues. The poly does as well...which means they will build up and out as much as possible to attempt to maximize inventory...

My guess

 

[DebbieB]

Right on schedule... I Knew that would be the first comment...

The north contemporary wing was a very outdated and unpopular 160 rooms that were replaced with 330 high capacity units
With facility upgrades...

That's just a "tad" different than taking out about 200 rooms in a hotel that was 5 years old
When construction started...and the result was "less" units of DVC...which is not the standard business model.

The poly is a combination of taking one lodge out while building a significant new development...

And eventually the contemporary will be shaped like a "U" or have some type of new development on the south as well...one could safely bet.

I hear ya...but honestly it's not the same.

The closet is when they shut down the failed Disney institute and threw up the pastel monstrosity known as "Saratoga"...but even that doesn't really qualify as taking high end useful inventory out of play.

The point I was making is they are reducing the number of regular rooms and replacing with DVC. DVC is where they are making money. AKL's mistake was it's not in a good location. Close to AK but that's it.

I think SSR is where they got greedy. They built it too large without a good location. Now it is making the other DVC resorts harder to get under 7 months as members who bought there are booking elsewhere.

 

[artesian]

The point I was making is they are reducing the number of regular rooms and replacing with DVC. DVC is where they are making money. AKL's mistake was it's not in a good location. Close to AK but that's it.

I think SSR is where they got greedy. They built it too large without a good location. Now it is making the other DVC resorts harder to get under 7 months as members who bought there are booking elsewhere.

SO that might be true for some people but I'm probably in the minority when I'll say I like SSR. We just went through the last 3 years where we have indeed booked and stayed elsewhere but my entire fam agrees we love SSR. Next trip we are going back to SSR and will be our go forward.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

SO that might be true for some people but I'm probably in the minority when I'll say I like SSR. We just went through the last 3 years where we have indeed booked and stayed elsewhere but my entire fam agrees we love SSR. Next trip we are going back to SSR and will be our go forward.

I agree with you...

You're in the minority


Saratoga is problematic for three reasons:

1. It was sold in the bubble economy based on fake real estate prices and credit cards that consumers couldn't support
2. They built too many...got greedy
3. They charged too many points...got greedy
Should have a point identical to old key west... They are too similar for them not too.

 

[beer dave]

I agree with you...

You're in the minority


Saratoga is problematic for three reasons:

1. It was sold in the bubble economy based on fake real estate prices and credit cards that consumers couldn't support
2. They built too many...got greedy
3. They charged too many points...got greedy
Should have a point identical to old key west... They are too similar for them not too.

you always beat me to the punch, and probably are more thorough. I am always surprised at how many people on here love SSR. Thanks to them.

It is out last resort. pun intended.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The point I was making is they are reducing the number of regular rooms and replacing with DVC. DVC is where they are making money. AKL's mistake was it's not in a good location. Close to AK but that's it.

But the reality is they are not reducing regular rooms for the sake of reducing rooms... They are doing it on a somewhat limited basis around the magic kingdom because they have no space...minor dredging and taking a little slice of the existing to build larger scale developments at contemp and the poly. They could have done a bigger dredge/fill in...but obviously they don't want to.

They obviously will slam the place with DVC and not build any traditional rooms for some time.

But animal kingdom is different... They took out large portions of the " prime" rooms on the upper floors adjacent the lobby to convert to DVC in front of the kidani construction.

They have 500 DVC units total... Which is far more than the more popular spots and only trails the original and only old key west and the overbuilt Saratoga.

That is to flood inventory into those "less popular" spots. They could have 400 units built at beach club and never have an empty room... But they built 192...

Why?
To force people into the less popular areas to prop up food and sales there. Animal kingdom and Saratoga are the poster children for that...
And Saratoga is now being "addressed" with the downtown Disney redo...don't think that's not part of the reason as well.

 

[Robbi]

But the reality is they are not reducing regular rooms for the sake of reducing rooms... They are doing it on a somewhat limited basis around the magic kingdom because they have no space...minor dredging and taking a little slice of the existing to build larger scale developments at contemp and the poly. They could have done a bigger dredge/fill in...but obviously they don't want to.

They obviously will slam the place with DVC and not build any traditional rooms for some time.

But animal kingdom is different... They took out large portions of the " prime" rooms on the upper floors adjacent the lobby to convert to DVC in front of the kidani construction.

They have 500 DVC units total... Which is far more than the more popular spots and only trails the original and only old key west and the overbuilt Saratoga.

That is to flood inventory into those "less popular" spots. They could have 400 units built at beach club and never have an empty room... But they built 192...

Why?
To force people into the less popular areas to prop up food and sales there. Animal kingdom and Saratoga are the poster children for that...
And Saratoga is now being "addressed" with the downtown Disney redo...don't think that's not part of the reason as well.

I agree with most of what you've said. We like SSR. It's not our first choice of DVC accommodations but it's very nice and the cast members are wonderful. In future years, if I can ever convert my husband to love Disney, I could see us liking this resort best. It's quiet and close enough yet far enough away from the parks.
AKV is gorgeous but unless our grandson or future grandchildren wish to spend our entire week there, we'll probably stay a couple of nights at most. That could change if they would make it more enticing- I can't think what they could do expcet maybe provide special jeeps to take guests to AK or maybe build a mini theme park for kids. The animals are great and IMO, the lobby and rooms are some of the nicest at WDW. Boma is my favorite restaurant in all of WDW. That is not enough though to keep us there very long.