Homework rant

[Art 1]

Sorry to disagree with you. My daughter took regular classes and didn't do well in high school at all. She then went to community college and became an honor roll student. She transferred to a college ranked 17th by Newsweek and graduated with her degree in Biology and her Masters in Entomology (with a full scholarship). No, she has never taken an AP class or an Honors Class and she can't speak a foreign language. Plus, she had no major after school activities to list on her college application.

Oh dear. I think she was referring to right out of high school.

 

[goofy4tink]

And transportation is not a problem getting kids together for study groups? If a child is having issues a kid should be able to go before or after school very easily and get help in a very quick amount of time (unless it is a paper) and unless the child rides the bus, but a good teacher should easily be able to make time prior to class.



I think that is okay every now and then, but if it is a constant thing then no. Your original post made it seem like it was a 'go to' answer. My guess is that maybe it is a misconception. However, how would you feel if you were a friend, and weekly you would have to answer questions after school about a problem. It would be like a neighbor who comes over and asks to borrow or help for a project. It can become tiring. What can result is that a student will just start copying answers for his homework.



It comes off as taking advantage of your friends when you expect that a students friends should have to do that, and that a teacher has no obligation. Most students do not need hours but 5 to 10 minutes of alone time. And a teachers obligation is to make sure that a kid can get to the next advancement. If not, then the kid should be held back. Tutoring is another discussion.

Kids get together. They figure it out. And as far as only needing 5-10 mins of extra 'alone' time? Not always the case. I know there were plenty of times that an extra 10 mins of time with the teacher wasn't going to help at all. But, she never did 'get' math. Still doesn't.

And that is the problem with homework. When a question arises someone has to be available. Who do you ask? And where do you get help? It becomes a burden not only for the child, but for others surrounding the child.

And there's the issue! No, no one does have to be available. Generally speaking, the purpose of homework (at least according to all the teachers I've asked) is to see if the student is 'getting it', or if there are a lot of students in that class that need more work on a particular area. It is to determine if a test is going to be readily passed by the majority of kids.
Now, if a child is taking an AP/honors class and gets bogged down, not knowing what to do? And this happens a lot? Perhaps they need to step back and take a level down in the class, if at all possible.

If I were a student and I got to a problem that I didn't understand, here would be my steps...
1) Call/text a friend.
2) Call/text/email the teacher
3) Check with a parent/older sibling
4) Try the internet
5) Skip the problem

I don't see where you get that someone HAS to be available.

Well now....that sure works for me. That's pretty much how it went in our house!!

 

[Liberty Belle]

Finland is currently ranked top in the world for education. Finnish kids spend fewer hours in school, and are assigned less homework than almost any other nation in the top 40. Both homework and standardized testing are discouraged and rarely used in Finland. I think the typical Finnish child takes on standardized test in their school career, at age 16.
Finland also has the smallest gap between their lowest achieving students and the highest achievers.

South Korea came in second on the last round of testing (those two nations tend to go ask and forth in who is first or second BTW). They take the exact opposite approach and push huge amounts of time in school (though, even then a large part of the "school" hours Korean students put in are at private tutoring places outside of the normal school hours. They really push homework and outside studying, leaving virtually no time for outside interests.

Personally, if the two extremes tend to have similar results, I would rather take the, let's create well rounded people, have less stressful school experiences, and not focus on testing route
BTW--the thing both Finland and South Korea have in common is that both countries recruit the best of the best from among college students to beocme their teachers.





While I am not a proponent of overlaoding students with homework, I think it is downright silly to want the teachers to NOT teach so taht the kids can get the work done in class

I was reading about Finland and found all that interesting, too. Also, if I remember correctly preschool through university is free for all students and all students from preschool through high school get free lunch. I assumed taxes would be a lot higher, because of this and other social programs there, but when I looked into it, they were only a few percentage points higher.

Very interesting.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Oh dear. I think she was referring to right out of high school.

Oh dear?!

This poster's child did go to college right out of high school. I didn't do it, but a lot of people go to community college first for various reasons. Saving money is one of them. The hours are still counted toward their degrees.

 

[CaliBear]

I feel like the idea that there's too much homework has only come around in the past 5 years or so and has really taken off. I had 3 hours of week night homework in high school, easily, and I only took 2 AP courses. I don't remember any parents complaining about our work load.

In Singapore I see students doing homework in small groups for hours after school each day. They then head for the tuition centers in order to get ahead. This is standard in Asian countries- the tuition center culture. Hong Kong, parts of mainland China and South Korea even have celebrity tutors , but that's a whole other topic. My point is that Asian culture seems to reinforce the concepts of homework, practice of concepts learned in class outside of the classroom, advance learning, and small group learning, which includes students learning from one another.

On the most recent PISA (2009), Shanghai ranked first in every subject. The U.S. scored 31st in math, 23rd in Science, and 17th in Reading. Why is there so much support for our students to work less than their peers in other countries? I do not get it.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I feel like the idea that there's too much homework has only come around in the past 5 years or so and has really taken off. I had 3 hours of week night homework in high school, easily, and I only took 2 AP courses. I don't remember any parents complaining about our work load.

In Singapore I see students doing homework in small groups for hours after school each day. They then head for the tuition centers in order to get ahead. This is standard in Asian countries- the tuition center culture. Hong Kong, parts of mainland China and South Korea even have celebrity tutors , but that's a whole other topic. My point is that Asian culture seems to reinforce the concepts of homework, practice of concepts learned in class outside of the classroom, advance learning, and small group learning, which includes students learning from one another.

On the most recent PISA (2009), Shanghai ranked first in every subject. The U.S. scored 31st in math, 23rd in Science, and 17th in Reading. Why is there so much support for our students to work less than their peers in other countries? I do not get it.

I wouldn't mind homework so much if it were meaningful. When it's just busy work, it's pointless, frustrating, and detrimental, to many students.

 

[Aliceacc]

Thank you!

Thank goodness, finally, my son has a teacher like you this year. Even though he has an IEP (ADHD) which includes a reduced workload (he consistently scores very superior on his MAP tests), his past teachers would not reduce his workload. This year, the teacher only gives out about 10-20 minutes of homework a night, period (4th grade). He's now completing his work even if he knows it's busy work because he sees it's not that big of an issue/not going to take him long. Before, he would not even attempt to do it.

If it's on his IEP, it's not a matter of the teacher's discretion. I would be speaking to someone in the district Special Ed office if the stipulations on his IEP are not being met.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I feel like the idea that there's too much homework has only come around in the past 5 years or so and has really taken off. I had 3 hours of week night homework in high school, easily, and I only took 2 AP courses. I don't remember any parents complaining about our work load.

I know that my child has gotten more homework, at least at certain stages, than I did.

I attended 4 different schools on 3 different continents for Kindergarten and 1st grade. In all that time, I got homework once. One assignment near the end of first grade to make a pinwheel out of a piece of paper, a pencil and an thumbtack. It was memorable because my parents made a big deal out of how cute it was that I had homework like a "big kid". My sister certainly didn't have homework at that age.

My son went to Kindergarten at one of the same schools I had attended for about 4 months in first grade. This was not the school that had the homework. They had homework every single day.

 

[Liberty Belle]

If it's on his IEP, it's not a matter of the teacher's discretion. I would be speaking to someone in the district Special Ed office if the stipulations on his IEP are not being met.

It was just added to his IEP last year and the teacher said she was reducing it if the volume caused problems. By the time she'd reduce it, the damage was done. He was frustrated and ramped up. I cannot tell you the difference in my child this year with his wonderful teacher (and new school). About a year ago he was diagnosed with depression and anxiety and his therapist just told me he didn't need to see him anymore and his psychiatrist says he wants to start reducing his medication dosage. He went from a child who did not want to leave my side in our home due to anxiety and having stomach aches every single morning, to a carefree child who now loves school. It's simply amazing.

 

[CaliBear]

I know that my child has gotten more homework, at least at certain stages, than I did.

I attended 4 different schools on 3 different continents for Kindergarten and 1st grade. In all that time, I got homework once. One assignment near the end of first grade to make a pinwheel out of a piece of paper, a pencil and an thumbtack. It was memorable because my parents made a big deal out of how cute it was that I had homework like a "big kid". My sister certainly didn't have homework at that age.

My son went to Kindergarten at one of the same schools I had attended for about 4 months in first grade. This was not the school that had the homework. They had homework every single day.

I never had homework in kindergarten or first grade. We had to read or complete work we didn't finish in class in older elementary grades, but I think formal homework came in middle school. I can understand parents not wanting homework for young children. The PISA scores I mentioned above are for secondary school. I should have been more clear.

 

[sam_gordon]

I wouldn't mind homework so much if it were meaningful. When it's just busy work, it's pointless, frustrating, and detrimental, to many students.

But where's the line between "meaningful" and "busy work"? Doesn't it vary by kid? What might help one student could be pointless and frustrating to someone else. So what should a teacher do?

 

[Liberty Belle]

But where's the line between "meaningful" and "busy work"? Doesn't it vary by kid? What might help one student could be pointless and frustrating to someone else. So what should a teacher do?

Yes, I think so. I don't know, maybe give a very short quiz at the end of the day and if a kid passes, he doesn't have to do homework? I'm talking about elementary. I know this would be more difficult in high school.

 

[sam_gordon]

I never had homework in kindergarten or first grade. We had to read or complete work we didn't finish in class in older elementary grades, but I think formal homework came in middle school. I can understand parents not wanting homework for young children. The PISA scores I mentioned above are for secondary school. I should have been more clear.

My elementary kids (1st & 3rd grade) have homework just about every night. It's usually one sheet, maybe two. It takes them about 10-20 minutes while they're watching TV.

Although my 1st grader has a group research project.

 

[Poohbug]

My 4th grader always has homework. Sometimes it will take 3-4 hours to finish. Every night is 20 min. of reading or writing, then spelling Mon-Thurs., then math worksheets at least two times a week, then Social Studies(right now learning US states and capitals) and now recorder practice. I would like to have him practice math facts but by the time all the other work is done, I feel bad giving him more work.

I don't take the kids out for vacation anymore but I would always get homework for them to do on vacation when they were younger. I don't have a problem with them making up work but I was not happy when we returned the huge packet of work after vacation and the teacher did not even look at it.

Don't even start on testing with me. DS does not test well. He does fine with normal classroom testing but those WKCE test and the like are horrible. He is nine and his results have his math and reading at a first grade level. He is not the best reader but I know he can read at grade level.

 

[E-P-C-O-T]

You want to talk about homework?

DD is in Pre-Pre-K and had an HOUR of homework today Yes, an hour, I am not exagerating and I was sitting with her while she was doing it (of course) and there was no playing around, she was actually doing her work. I felt so bad that I promised her that I would give her 3 stickers on her chart (it's for her occupational therapy) and she will get her Lalaloopsy doll on friday. I am going to talk to her teacher tomorrow, I know they want to prepare the kids, but, this is preschool

 

[happygirl]

My elementary kids (1st & 3rd grade) have homework just about every night. It's usually one sheet, maybe two. It takes them about 10-20 minutes while they're watching TV.

Although my 1st grader has a group research project.

really?? To me that insane

 

[Boston Tea Party]

really?? To me that insane

Why?

What is insane?

That students that young will begin to research?

Or that students that young are expected to work together?

If not first grade, when?

School is not the same as when you were enrolled. The WORLD is not the same as when you were enrolled. Students are being prepared for life and all of its challenges.

How is that insane?

 

[Boston Tea Party]

Yes, it will get worse. But it didn't hurt my two. It made college a breeze for them. Easier in fact than HS.

Absolutely. My daughter carried all AP classes when offered. She spent HOURS every night doing homework. I saw her on weekends and breaks. There were many nights with very little sleep but it was worth every moment. (For weeks I was waking up at 2 AM and didn't know why. It was because that was the time that she was going to bed and the upstairs noises of her doing so would wake me.)

Consequently, she has a scholarship to an excellent college and can manage her work in a way that leaves time for networking, volunteering, and other activities.

She is well prepared for the collegiate academic environment and that, in turn, is preparing her for grad school.

Students cannot perform at such a level without many hours of work outside of the regular classroom instruction time. Like the saying goes with regard to college work: for every one hour in class, three hours of outside class study is needed.

And 20 minutes of math work per night at a high school level does not even begin to cut it.

 

[SavvyMom]

My kids spend more time writing the answer than actually doing the work. The work is a joke. They are gifted, it's like sending home a worksheet asking what sound the cow makes.

That is a Common Core requirement. It's not enough to KNOW the answer, you must know and be able to explain HOW and WHY you got the answer.

 

[Aliceacc]

And 20 minutes of math work per night at a high school level does not even begin to cut it.

How on earth could you begin to judge that?? I've been teaching since 1980. I've taught everything from Math 7 to Calculus. I've taught high school courses for which my kids received college credit. I teach 2 different math SAT prep courses. I spent 7 years as Department Chair before taking 5 years off to be home with my kids.

You have absolutely no idea how I teach, who I teach, or what standards I hold my kids to, aside from what I've posted here. You have no idea what colleges my kids have gone to, or what they've majored in, or how many of them have gone on to find success as math majors. In the next two months, I'll be writing close to 40 college letters of recommendation for kids I taught last year as sophomores. I'm moderator of the National Honor Society and have over 600 kids in that activity. Please believe that I'm fairly well versed in what colleges require, both in terms of material and work ethic. Oh, and let's not forget extra curricular activities. Anyone who knows anything about college admissions know that most of the strongest schools want a well rounded student body. Look at all the high school Validictorians from all over the country who get denied or wait listed at the Ivys. And, as a parent, I want that for my kids too. As much as I strongly value education, I want my kids to be well rounded with a variety of interests.

I'm glad your daughter found a system that worked for her. But know that each kid is different, and those 2 am nights would NOT work for everyone. Lots and lots of kids find it helpful -- not to mention healthy--to get more than 4 hours of sleep a night, so those semi-all-nighters would prove counterproductive for lots of 16 and 17 year olds.

My system works very well for the kids in the college prep school in which I teach. Our kids take 6 major subjects per day, with classes of 40 minutes. Your ratio of 3:1 would mean an additional 12 hours of work beyond the school day. So my students would be up at 6:30, on the bus by 7, in homeroom by 8, finish school at 3, get home by 4 pm, grab a sandwich, work on schoolwork from 4:30 pm until 4:30 am, take a nap, and then be back up at 6:30??

Sorry, this doesn't sound like sound education or parenting.