Homeschooling

[LisaR]

There should at least be a test to make sure the parent is competent.

Why?? They don't make adults take a test before they have children so why should they take one before homeschooling their kids? If a parent is going to screw their kids up, they can do a great job of it whether their child is in school or at home.

 

[rentayenta]

Kudos to anyone who can home school effectively. It would put me over the edge. I am well educated but not in education.

 

[Buckalew11]

HSing is just like any other way of getting an education--it can be good and it can be bad.
So far we are into our first year of HSing HS and my DD is loving it. I think she is learning more academically at home than she would at school. Her social life is not the same but since it is more positive, it is better so that is OK too. I do not have a college degree but my DH does. However, I think I am a better teacher than he is and he'd probably agree, LOL. Honestly, at this level it is a lot of independent study.

I chose her curriculum but had to have it approved by her umbrella school. They, in turn, will help us with transcripts for college. She'll take regular acheivement tests every year to make sure she is on task. She'll take SATs and go on to college. The college that she has chosen has a HS liason and we'll be talking with her to make sure we're staying on task for what they require also.

I was never a fan of HSing in the past but when DD asked to be HSed last May, I thought it was only fair to look into it. After looking in to it, I decided that we'd try it. So far, not a single regret.
There are some pretty big misconceptions out there about HSing, that is for sure.

OP, I think your friend needs to rethink her reason for HSing. Learning about evolution will not harm her child's faith. In fact, I think it is only fair to learn both ideas--esp. since they can mesh together.

People who HS younger kids with no structure--that is referred to as "unschooling". A very interesting way of doing things (and certainly not my cup of tea).

 

[Kae]

Why?? They don't make adults take a test before they have children so why should they take one before homeschooling their kids? If a parent is going to screw their kids up, they can do a great job of it whether their child is in school or at home.

Because if a parent does not have the knowledge or skills and it doesn't work out they put them back in the school system & they are behind. And then of course it is the School Sytems fault. Some people get mad at the school pull the kids out for maybe a year, then put them back in.

Now the parents that are good at HS do a great job & I believe that the majority are. But those are the parents that put real thought in to their choice.

Kae

 

[LisaR]

I totally agree. Teachers are now graded via the "No Child Left Behind" testing - shouldn't home teachers have to do the same?

How do home schooled kids graduate high school? Take the GED?

Then college - do they take the SATs - and just not have a school transcript?

I must confess - I know no one who home schools........

The reason teachers are graded based on test results is because they have a classroom full of 25 to 30 kids and it is almost impossible to tell which ones are truly getting the material. I do not think mass testing is the answer but it seems to be the best they have at the moment.

"Home teachers" do not have to do the same in most states for multiple reasons. The main one is that government officials know that state testing is a joke.

You would be hard pressed to find many people who support mass testing of students as a sole determinant of knowledge retention.

Look at the number of people on this message board alone who regularly complain about state testing and yet most seem to think homeschoolers should have to take those very same tests.

If you look at the statistics, homeschooled kids tend to do above their states average in SAT & ACT testing and they also have a higher rate of attending college. They managed to do that without state testing.

Reality is, there are people that do not have any business homeschooling their kids and there are plenty of really messed up public school kids. You can't win so you do what you feel is best for your own kids.

 

[Buckalew11]

You can't win so you do what you feel is best for your own kids.

Most likely this is true. Plus as a HS mom, please just keep your opinions to yourself. I got so tired of hearing it.

 

[LisaR]

Because if a parent does not have the knowledge or skills and it doesn't work out they put them back in the school system & they are behind. And then of course it is the School Sytems fault. Some people get mad at the school pull the kids out for maybe a year, then put them back in.

Now the parents that are good at HS do a great job & I believe that the majority are. But those are the parents that put real thought in to their choice.

Kae

This one statement that you make is one made by many people when this discussion comes up and I find it the most confusing.

You think MOST people that homeschool do a good job but because there are a few that aren't doing a good job, ALL parents should have to pass a test to HS.

I would think this is a logical statement if it also applied to the teachers at a PS.

I think MOST teachers in the public school do a good job but the reality of it is, some don't. They have passed all the necessary tests and they still stink but they are allowed to continuing teaching.

So we limit HS to those that can pass a test but some teachers who have clearly passed a test to get where they are can't teach worth a darn. Passing a test doesn't prove a thing.

 

[wilderness01]

My neighbor homeschools her kids and loves it. However, when her oldest went to high school, she was put in a below average track because she was behind in her academics.

 

[Colleen27]

I totally agree. Teachers are now graded via the "No Child Left Behind" testing - shouldn't home teachers have to do the same?

How do home schooled kids graduate high school? Take the GED?

Then college - do they take the SATs - and just not have a school transcript?

I must confess - I know no one who home schools........

There are a million different approaches, so the answers vary.

No, parents shouldn't have to pass a test to educate their own children, and more than they should have to pass a test to raise them. Teachers are "graded" because that is a measure of their job performance; the state has no grounds for taking the same interest in parenting skills.

As far as high school goes, a diploma matters very little in the long run. I have no idea where mine is, and have never been asked for it. Homeschoolers build a transcript through alternative assessments - SATs, SAT II subject-specific tests, AP exams, community college coursework, essays, etc.

I know many homeschoolers, ranging from completely unstructured "unschoolers" to those who follow a very traditional school-like model and everything in between. Most are excellent teachers and have successful, bright kids. A few are too disorganized or uncommitted to do well, but those are the folks that tend to homeschool for one year and then decide sending the kids to public school is easier.

 

[mirmartinez]

I am sure most parents who home school think they are capable.
However, I think a test or some criteria to determine if the parent is competent is a good idea.
Sometimes we are blind to our own deficiencies.
That blindness could damage a child's future.

 

[mickeymedic]

Homeschooling can be done quite effectively these days with the help of any number of pre-packaged curricula. It takes quite a bit of time and dedication on the part of the parent(s), but it can be done successfully - even if the parent only has a GED.

That said, I agree that there should be some sort of screening process to ensure that the parents fully understand what they are getting into. They should also be subject to some sort of testing to ensure that the kids are making satisfactory progress. I was homeschooled for grades 3-8 back in the 80's when homeschooling was still pretty new. I took standardized tests each year - but I don't know if this was mandatory or voluntary.

 

[Colleen27]

I am sure most parents who home school think they are capable.
However, I think a test or some criteria to determine if the parent is competent is a good idea.
Sometimes we are blind to our own deficiencies.
That blindness could damage a child's future.

That's a reality of life, though. There are many, many things parents do or don't do that could damage a child's future. There's no way to control them all and I don't understand why homeschooling is so often singled out as one that should be the business of the state, particularly since the state is doing such a poor job of providing education in so many places.

 

[Kae]

This one statement that you make is one made by many people when this discussion comes up and I find it the most confusing.

You think MOST people that homeschool do a good job but because there are a few that aren't doing a good job, ALL parents should have to pass a test to HS.

I would think this is a logical statement if it also applied to the teachers at a PS.

I think MOST teachers in the public school do a good job but the reality of it is, some don't. They have passed all the necessary tests and they still stink but they are allowed to continuing teaching.

So we limit HS to those that can pass a test but some teachers who have clearly passed a test to get where they are can't teach worth a darn. Passing a test doesn't prove a thing.

I do not HS. I do not have any close friends who HS. But I know of quite a few kids in my area who were HS now in college & doing very well. My DD's snowboarding teacher for one, I believe it can be done well. But I also have seen some kids parents take them out to HS(they get mad at the school) & they barely make a year & put them back in & quess what same problems & now they are a year behind. And I don't consider those parents Home Schoolers.

I believe there should be testing done for the students, some state guidelines. In the long run it would be best.

Kae

 

[Colleen27]

I believe there should be testing done for the students, some state guidelines. In the long run it would be best.

I'm curious (and not picking on you, just using this as a jumping off) - How do those of you who think the state should be testing homeschoolers envision that working? Many, many parents who homeschool do so because their children have special needs that are often poorly served in a public school setting (autism, aspergers, Downs, etc). Others do so in order to teach differently than the public schools (ie Christian-based curriculum, no evolution, etc), which is perfectly permissible if those children attended private school. Still others follow curriculum or educational styles that don't introduce material in the same order or at the same ages as the public school (often because the methods used by the public schools are not those best supported by educational and developmental research). How can you even begin to formulate standards for homeschooling that don't try to force all of these families to conform to the model of administering the public school curriculum at home?

 

[LisaR]

I do not HS. I do not have any close friends who HS. But I know of quite a few kids in my area who were HS now in college & doing very well. My DD's snowboarding teacher for one, I believe it can be done well. But I also have seen some kids parents take them out to HS(they get mad at the school) & they barely make a year & put them back in & quess what same problems & now they are a year behind. And I don't consider those parents Home Schoolers.

I believe there should be testing done for the students, some state guidelines. In the long run it would be best.

Kae

But testing won't fix that. What if the HS child fails the test? Are you saying that a child that fails should go back to school? Should the PS child that fails the test be forced to homeschool?

PS kids flunk the tests in large numbers year after year. If testing is the "proof" or measure as to the quality of education, we better start working on the PS first since there are a lot more of them.

 

[LisaR]

I'm curious (and not picking on you, just using this as a jumping off) - How do those of you who think the state should be testing homeschoolers envision that working? Many, many parents who homeschool do so because their children have special needs that are often poorly served in a public school setting (autism, aspergers, Downs, etc). Others do so in order to teach differently than the public schools (ie Christian-based curriculum, no evolution, etc), which is perfectly permissible if those children attended private school. Still others follow curriculum or educational styles that don't introduce material in the same order or at the same ages as the public school (often because the methods used by the public schools are not those best supported by educational and developmental research). How can you even begin to formulate standards for homeschooling that don't try to force all of these families to conform to the model of administering the public school curriculum at home?

I just wanted to comment on this. My son is dyslexic. I just had him retested two weeks ago. They had his old results from when he was 5 (he is 11 now).

The place I took him to did not seem very homeschool friendly when I spoke to them over the phone but that was really my only place to choose from. When they were done, the director of the place came up to me and said, "please do me a favor. Do not EVER put your son in PS. The way your son has progressed is just amazing to me. I can honestly tell you that I have never seen this much progress in my 21 years in this business."

I promise I am not saying this to pat myself on the back. Trust me, my son has made the accomplishments he has made because he wants to. He was the one that was determined to read. He made the effort and it has paid off. But I can honestly not imagine him being ABOVE grade level if he went to school. I am fairly certain he would have been ridiculed and labeled as lazy or dumb when he was younger which would have turned him off to reading for good.

We happen to have two dyslexic kids in our subdivision. One is a friend of my sons and the other is a friend of my daughters. These two are failing. They hate school with a passion and they are not getting the help they need. I have known them both for almost 5 years and it literally makes me want to cry because they are getting worse instead of better.

I should add that the county I live in is rated "the best school system in our state."

For the record, I did not HS my son because of his dyslexia. I was already HS my older child who does not have any LD. It was just the right fit for our family.

 

[CPT Tripss]

My neighbor homeschools her kids and loves it. However, when her oldest went to high school, she was put in a below average track because she was behind in her academics.

This took me back a lot of years . . . the pain of public schools!

DD was home schooled . . . decided she wanted to go to local school, mostly for the athletics . . . they put her into the non academic track as she did not score a certain score on one of the standardized tests (can't recall which one).
We met with the guidance staff, pointed out that she never took the tests in question and asked for a reconsideration of placement . . . response, rules are rules and she'll just have to learn to live with her placement. So, we went to a nearby Catholic Prep school. Their response, what's she good at? What does she like? She can challenge those subjects by a placement test.
End result, she did well in the challenge and her math and science abilities got her into a great career . . . amazing that a "top notch" public school couldn't figure out how to accomplish that.

 

[quasar4legs]

People homeschool for all sorts of reasons and employ lots of different methodologies to achieve their educaional goals. My son was at school from Kindergarten until then end of grade 5 when we started homeschooling.
Our family LOVED homeschooling and we live by the motto that 'education is not the filling of the bucket but the lighting of a fire'.

We spent lots of time travelling, attending the theatre, going to art galleries, museums etc.
Our son did heaps of activities with other homeschoolers including golf, drama, basketball, art lessons and science classes. We used distance education from several universities and he just picked things that took his fancy includuing a unit on WW2 and critical thinking. Making use of our local adult education college we did workshops on the crusades, the architecture of castles, the big bang, and a host of other topics.
He learnt the trombone and trumpet and played in a local community brass band. Our son had private tutors for french, latin, english and maths and eventually started universtiy at 15 using the SAT's to satisfy entrance requirements.
In all it was a wonderful time and was lots of fun but it was a fulltime job for me and I spent a lot of time researching and hunting down resources.

Homeschooling is not for everybody but it really worked for us.

Trish

 

[Cindy F]

I just started home schooling my daughter this year and was pretty appalled that $20 through PayPal to a church 125miles away and keeping an "attendance record" is all that is required. I think that is swinging the pendulum way too far in the opposite direction IMHO.

I purchased a pre-packaged 7th grade core curricula to include History, Geography, Science, Math, English and added French and Spanish. There are also an infinite number of on line resources including educational videos on YouTube. I have a master's degree and have taught students before but only adults.

I try to do a field trip a week, one 7th grade home school outing a week (with other home schoolers), and she has extracurricular classes/activities with other kids everyday but Friday.

We chose homeschooling because our state is dead last in public education and although I love the church, I didn't want her going to Catholic school.

We love it! I never thought it was something I would even want to try but, I'm so glad I did. I just hate that there are no minimum standards of anything in homeschooling here, no guidelines....absolutely nothing. I don't think that's fair to the children.

 

[bumbershoot]

I totally agree. Teachers are now graded via the "No Child Left Behind" testing - shouldn't home teachers have to do the same?

How do home schooled kids graduate high school? Take the GED?

Then college - do they take the SATs - and just not have a school transcript?

I must confess - I know no one who home schools........

And most people and teachers don't like no child left behind, and don't really see it doing anything positive.

Yes they graduate with a diploma; there are even graduations and proms in communities with a homeschool group that wants to do that.

I found out recently that a homeschool graduate can go to Disneyland or World Grad Nights, any one they choose!

Yes, all the tests that they want to take, they can take.

To get into college you have to have a transcript; with a homeschooler you generally have a very in depth transcript showing more than just As and Bs, but showing samples of work, etc.

You should look up homeschool on some of the best college websites! Duke has a lovely page on how they welcome homeschooled kids, and Harvard has info and some articles about their homeschooled students and how they have done, in their student newspaper online.

I remember working in the Admissions Office at my university one summer, doing something involving transcripts of incoming students (some sort of filing work? we normally sent out packets of info to interested sophomores and juniors, but this day we were doing something different), and seeing the skinny little HS transcripts with the thick, interesting homeschool transcripts!

I'm curious (and not picking on you, just using this as a jumping off) - How do those of you who think the state should be testing homeschoolers envision that working? Many, many parents who homeschool do so because their children have special needs that are often poorly served in a public school setting (autism, aspergers, Downs, etc). Others do so in order to teach differently than the public schools (ie Christian-based curriculum, no evolution, etc), which is perfectly permissible if those children attended private school. Still others follow curriculum or educational styles that don't introduce material in the same order or at the same ages as the public school (often because the methods used by the public schools are not those best supported by educational and developmental research). How can you even begin to formulate standards for homeschooling that don't try to force all of these families to conform to the model of administering the public school curriculum at home?

FYI my state does require testing or evaluating. Each state does things differently! States Rights and all that.




And in response to the OP, I wonder why this lady keeps asking you, since it doesn't seem you're an expert in it. But anyway, PA laws are in a pdf found here.