Home that is jointly owned...help!

[Kallista]

Yes. You can force the sale of the property. It's a called a partition by sale.

You'll need to get a real estate attorney to do it for you. I would guess that the legal fees will be between $5000 - $10000.

 

[eliza61]

Yes. You can force the sale of the property. It's a called a partition by sale.

You'll need to get a real estate attorney to do it for you. I would guess that the legal fees will be between $5000 - $10000.

So with these kind of fees, op do you need the money from the sale of the house or you guys don't want to be financially responsible for it?

What does BIL say when you ask him to sell? Simply tell him that obviously if he wants to continue to use the house he must be financially responsible for the house. (insurance, property tax and up keep). As I said, contracts can be written pretty much to cover any scenerio.

If he claims he cannot afford to do that, well then case closed. If you cannot afford some thing you do not get it.

 

[eliza61]

I find it amusing that people are predicting bad consequences if you force a sale, because I would be so mad at this selfish BIL that he would have already suffered some bad consequences! He's using it as a vacation home but he can't afford to buy it? So he wants you to continue to subsidize his vacations by partially owning this home and letting him use it whenever he wants? And you're supposed to be concerned that he'll get mad when you put a stop to it? Please. Tell him that you have no choice because you want/need the equity, and have at it.

Becasue this is not some random stranger, op is talking about. This is her husbands brother. Yeah he maybe behaving badly but it still is her husbands brother and family relationships do and can affect marriages. So yeah, I think she needs to be concerned how this will affect her hubby because as anyone who has a relative from Hell can tell you, it can affect your entire life.
Suppose the siblings are close? what happens if his father decides to suddenly stops being "indifferent" and doesn't want to sell? This is her husbands father. not so easy now to say "oh well"

 

[tlbwriter]

Becasue this is not some random stranger, op is talking about. This is her husbands brother.

Yes, which is why I would be quite angry that he was trying to force me to subsidize his vacation home. The brother is the one who set the tone. Why is it okay for the BIL to be the one who controls the property that three people own, but if one other owner tries to control it, he can't, because it's not right? You can talk all you want about how the OP and her husband should be kind to the brother, but the brother is the one who put them in this situation by being selfish. I, personally, am not inclined to repay selfish behavior with kindness, especially when the kindness is costly. And if it meant my selfish brother got mad at me, I'd live with that. Better him mad at me than me mad at him.

what happens if his father decides to suddenly stops being "indifferent" and doesn't want to sell?

Then maybe *he* can buy out the OP and her husband.

 

[dis-happy]

How is the rental market? Can you get a renter in there and then you all derive income from the property?

Otherwise, I'd give a specific timeline (like 12 to 24 mos) for the brother to get his act together. Tell him at that point you are going to force the sale if he can't buy you out. This can all be done nicely without causing a major family rift.

 

[eliza61]

Yes, which is why I would be quite angry that he was trying to force me to subsidize his vacation home. The brother is the one who set the tone. Why is it okay for the BIL to be the one who controls the property that three people own, but if one other owner tries to control it, he can't, because it's not right? You can talk all you want about how the OP and her husband should be kind to the brother, but the brother is the one who put them in this situation by being selfish. I, personally, am not inclined to repay selfish behavior with kindness, especially when the kindness is costly. And if it meant my selfish brother got mad at me, I'd live with that. Better him mad at me than me mad at him.



Then maybe *he* can buy out the OP and her husband.

Oh hey, in no way saying that BIL doesn't need to do a lot of growing up but to simply force him into selling could lead to some really bad blood.
So I do think that needs to be taken into consideration.
Now I also come from a big, close family and so does my dh. so I could not simply dismiss my siblings and father as easy as you can and if taking a little extra time to find a solution that would make all parties happy is what it would take to keep my family intact. Unless I really needed the money, I wouldn't have a problem with that. Especially since there are many alternatives to have him pick up financial responsibility without forcing him sell. My experience is pretty much you can get a contract that will make every one happy.

Now if he then decides to break the contract or he cannot live up to it, that's a different story.

 

[tlbwriter]

Oh hey, in no way saying that BIL doesn't need to do a lot of growing up but to simply force him into selling could lead to some really bad blood.
So I do think that needs to be taken into consideration.
Now I also come from a big, close family and so does my dh. so I could not simply dismiss my siblings and father as easy as you can and if taking a little extra time to find a solution that would make all parties happy is what it would take to keep my family intact.

Well, my siblings and father wouldn't have taken advantage of me the way this brother is, so it's a moot point. But if they did, it would make it easy for me to dismiss them. I wouldn't be worried about bad blood because it would already be there, KWIM? If someone strikes first (even if it's my sibling) I'm not going to hold back for fear that I'll make them mad.

 

[Pigeon]

OP, sorry you are dealing with this. Personally, I would try to have a meeting and lay out the costs and responsibilities and see if you can get your BIL to recognize the reality of the situation.

My ILs own a vacation home that they want to get rid of. My BIL is pressuring my dh big time that all the siblings should buy the vacation home together. That's my worst nightmare. This BIL is the only one who would get signficant use out of it (he'd be there every weekend, we would get there maybe for a week or so per year), and he and his family are unbelievable slobs. If we were to take two weeks vacation there, we'd have to spend the first week de-sliming the place. No thanks.

 

[tlbwriter]

My ILs own a vacation home that they want to get rid of. My BIL is pressuring my dh big time that all the siblings should buy the vacation home together. That's my worst nightmare. This BIL is the only one who would get signficant use out of it (he'd be there every weekend, we would get there maybe for a week or so per year), and he and his family are unbelievable slobs. If we were to take two weeks vacation there, we'd have to spend the first week de-sliming the place. No thanks.

That does sound like a nightmare. I was on another board where siblings shared a vacation home (it had been willed to them by the parents) and it was a constant source of strife. Even the ones who got along were starting to hate each other!

 

[mom to minnie&mickey]

Well, my siblings and father wouldn't have taken advantage of me the way this brother is, so it's a moot point. But if they did, it would make it easy for me to dismiss them. I wouldn't be worried about bad blood because it would already be there, KWIM? If someone strikes first (even if it's my sibling) I'm not going to hold back for fear that I'll make them mad.

Agree with everything you have posted tlbwriter. You are one smart cookie. In life I have found that "users" usually test the waters and if they find no opposition then their path is paved and they continue until called out. It is then that they cry out as if THEY are the injured party (when you cannot defend, attack.) OP your dh is under no obligation to partially finance his brother's vacations. Your bil is well aware that he has it made and obviously does not care what you think, so what relationship are you afraid to damage?
The bil is playing all of you. Tell him you cannot afford your share of the expenses (taxes, insurance, maintanance etc.) and if he refuses to buy you out then you have no option but to rent out your share (one month in each season) and do it. If he is benefiting from this co-ownership, then you all should. Otherwise no one should be staying there for free. In any case, with a brother like that hurting the relationship would be the last thing on my mind, since it obviously is not on his! Good Luck.

 

[disneyfamily71]

OP here...thanks to everyone for all your responses. A little background...DH and I could use the money as we were both unemployed. Needless to say things have been rough. We rarely see BIL, maybe on holidays. He and DH rarely speak on the phone. We see FIL about once a month and he and DH talk once or twice a week. We would like to sell our share of the property and DH has made this very clear to BIL. BIL says he doesn't have the money to do this. I am well aware BIL is taking advantage of the situation. He has got it made. FIL does not have the money to buy us out, he doesn't seem to have much to say about the issue. He is closer to BIL than to DH. If anything, I think he is sentimental about the place. He had heart bypass surgery last Sept and had a significant loss of income. We cannot rent the place out due to restrictions in the area where the property is located. I am hoping the 3 of them can sit down and have a serious discussion about this before doing anything drastic.

I think it comes down to the fact that DH doesn't want to make waves with his family. I say make waves, but it is his family.

To make it clear, I think BIL is an idiot. He gets on my last nerve. Always has, always will. I know that sounds rude, but it's the truth. Ahhh...I feel better just having typed that.

Sorry if I rambled on but this whole situtation has me fired up. I feel a little better now that I have vented.

 

[Kae]

I would start going up on the weekends that you can, it is a shared home after all. that might change BIL mind a bit

Kae

 

[tlbwriter]

Sounds like you've got a lot of really good reasons to force a sale. I'd talk to FIL first, explain your predicament, and see if you can get him on your side. Sorry you have to mess with this. Are you paying any taxes on the property?

 

[SoonerSarah]

If this is currently costing you anything, I would force the sale.

Yes, it likely is going to cause family issues. But as you have said, DH and BIL do not have a good relationship, and rarely see each other. You do see FIL, but if he can not understand that you guys are unemployed, and no matter what your financial situation was like beforehand, the most logical and intelligent thing for you to do for your family is to unload everything that is not necessary.

I completely understand about sentimental value. But as Suzy Orman says, "People first, then money, then things." This is a thing. There are memories tied to it, but those memories are locked in minds, not exclusive to only when someone steps foot in the house.

Essentially, DH has to be your husband. He has to be Jacob and Megan's Daddy. He does not have to be BIL's Brother, or FIL's Son. Yes, that is harsh, but it is also harsh for them to hold you into a financial obligation knowing that you guys are unemployed and have children, and want to unburden yourself from this.

If something were to happen at/with this house, you guys are also ultimately liable. Is that something that you guys could do?

Put it into terms of something else that was passed onto family members. Suppose Grandma had some piece of jewelry that was worth the same value as the home. It holds sentimental value to FIL. BIL is the only one that uses the jewelry. You split the cost of insuring the piece of jewelry. Same situation exsists otherwise. Would you still hold onto it?

 

[Hannathy]

I would start going up on the weekends that you can, it is a shared home after all. that might change BIL mind a bit

Kae

I agree. Why don't you go up ? if it is on a lake I would be going up, possibly if he actually had to start sharing it he would be happy to buy you out. Don't your kids each want to take a few friends with them every weekend you go up?

 

[Mom2Ben02]

Ha ha - I agree, start going up. And don't you think that it would be easier to just leave a bunch of stuff up there, so you don't have to bring it every time? Like a Costco sized box of tampons? On the bathroom counter?

 

[cm8]

OP here...thanks to everyone for all your responses. A little background...DH and I could use the money as we were both unemployed. Needless to say things have been rough. We rarely see BIL, maybe on holidays. He and DH rarely speak on the phone. We see FIL about once a month and he and DH talk once or twice a week. We would like to sell our share of the property and DH has made this very clear to BIL. BIL says he doesn't have the money to do this. I am well aware BIL is taking advantage of the situation. He has got it made. FIL does not have the money to buy us out, he doesn't seem to have much to say about the issue. He is closer to BIL than to DH. If anything, I think he is sentimental about the place. He had heart bypass surgery last Sept and had a significant loss of income. We cannot rent the place out due to restrictions in the area where the property is located. I am hoping the 3 of them can sit down and have a serious discussion about this before doing anything drastic.

I think it comes down to the fact that DH doesn't want to make waves with his family. I say make waves, but it is his family.

To make it clear, I think BIL is an idiot. He gets on my last nerve. Always has, always will. I know that sounds rude, but it's the truth. Ahhh...I feel better just having typed that.

Sorry if I rambled on but this whole situtation has me fired up. I feel a little better now that I have vented.

If the both of you were employed would selling the house still be an option? I know times are hard for you all as you have stated, but I'm not sure that you would want to give your BIL ammo to play with. He could successfully argue that you did not care that he was using the home and not playing his part till you needed money and now you want to sell what is 1/3 his.

He could make it out to be a long drawn out process and you all lose more money then it would be worth. (sort of like the man or woman who is divorced and wants the judge to rule in their favor for money or things to maintain their upkeep and style of living).

If DHB was deeded the home would he be able to take care of the taxes, and upkeep. Who is responsible for all of it now?


The fact that your husband does not want to make waves speaks volumes. This has to be his decision and his alone. It could only end bad if your husband harbors resentment and anger towards you if something were to transpire between his father and his brother. I would not want to be in that place. It could make your life a living nightmare.

Could you live like that for the rest of your married life
Since you have already pledged your eternal love for your BIL, I would leave it alone. His brother probably feels the same way about you. It could later be turned around on you as being the one who started"this mess" and if it weren't for you they would still be friends and all that good stuff people say when the screw up and try to blame others

Good luck, I hope that things get better for you and your husband

 

[tink2dw]

I know you could use the money. But if there is no way to get any money out of the house and you can't afford the Taxes, Insurance and maintenance, Then you need to do a Quick Deed. A Quick Deed will deed the property to the FIL and the BIL and your DH will be permanently cut out of any ownership or fees for said property. Then there won't be any worries about moneys. But if you do this you will no longer able to use it as a deduction off your taxes!!

 

[TLuvsD]

I'd double check on the rental restrictions. Be sure from some independent source that you can't rent the place AT ALL. Chances are, you can rent it at least sometimes...and those are the times your family will take it's "turn" at the house. And of course, you want to lend it to the kids scout group/sports team/bithday party for a weekend, donate it to the school auction for a weekend. Since the property is one third yours, you want to use it one third of the time, including weekends and holidays. In short, make it impossible for BIL to use it constantly, without prior planning. If he doesn't like it, he can buy you out or put a usage agreement in place to take the financial burden off you. (Make sure you have insurance before doing the above.)

 

[tlbwriter]

What is the insurance status on the house? What happens if someone gets hurt there? If you end up keeping your interest in the house, I suggest an umbrella liability policy. They're not expensive at all, and it would protect you if something happens - party given by BIL, people at the house when it's unoccupied, etc.