History of Occupancy Limits

[Leight19]

I have begun to look at adding on a contract with focus on resorts which could work for 5 people in studio or 1 bedroom. With this criteria and looking at room occupancy and sizes, it seemed a bit inconsistent which rooms fit 4 vs 5. This started me thinking whether occupancy limits are fixed or if they changed over time and some resorts still waiting updates. Does anyone know of any changes to occupancy historically? We’re these done as part of refurbs or other reasons? Any predictions on changes in occupancy limits for existing resorts moving forward (main one im pulling for would be increase of akv kidani studio to 5 and jambo value 1bedroom to 5 haha)?

 

[lehrsj]

Old Key West used to be 4 people for a one bedroom for many years. They added an additional sleeper chair and changed it to 5. There is plenty of room in Old Key West for this.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The chances of either AKV change is basically zero. Would have happened last refurb if they felt it possible.

 

[Leight19]

The chances of either AKV change is basically zero. Would have happened last refurb if they felt it possible.

Thank you for response. I thought last akv refurb was 2016 and was “soft goods” and the big refurb will be sometime ~2023? Was hoping that’s where we could see changes. That said given okw didn’t do 5 for studio not sure how optimistic I am for akv kidani studio but was hoping to get thoughts. Were the beach club, boardwalk, Boulder ridge studios originally 5 or when did that upgrade happen?

 

[DebbieB]

When I bought BWV in 1999, there was an unofficial 5 in a bedroom. They made it official a few years later after they added the pull down in a studio. The position of the breakfast bar and the connecting door prevented the pull down in a 1 bedroom. SSR resolved this during the current renovation by eliminating the breakfast bar.

 

[Marionnette]

Thank you for response. I thought last akv refurb was 2016 and was “soft goods” and the big refurb will be sometime ~2023? Was hoping that’s where we could see changes. That said given okw didn’t do 5 for studio not sure how optimistic I am for akv kidani studio but was hoping to get thoughts. Were the beach club, boardwalk, Boulder ridge studios originally 5 or when did that upgrade happen?

BCV, BRV and BWV were originally 4 in a studio. They had their hard goods refurb in 2016 (or thereabouts).

Personally, I don't care for how they retrofit those studios with the 5th sleeping surface. It took away almost all of the storage space in those rooms. What they gave us instead won't hold enough clothes for 2 people, let alone 5.

 

[Leight19]

BCV, BRV and BWV were originally 4 in a studio. They had their hard goods refurb in 2016 (or thereabouts).

Personally, I don't care for how they retrofit those studios with the 5th sleeping surface. It took away almost all of the storage space in those rooms. What they gave us instead won't hold enough clothes for 2 people, let alone 5.

I think this is good point I hadn’t considered. I also wonder how change would effect availability. At akv there’s the natural split of studios vs 1 bedroom based on party size so I wonder if change would make studios harder to book.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I also would never expect Value to upgrafd.

 

[drusba]

As to 1BRs:

The pre-AKV resorts, OKW, HHI. VB, BWV, BCV, BRV, and SSR all originally limited occupancy to 4* in the 1BRs. Sometime near the mid-2000's, exactly when is an unknown because DVC began doing it without making any announcement, DVC started allowing five in a 1BR as long as the members provided their own bedding for the fifth.

Then in 2007-09 came AKV, first Jambo and then Kidani, and both, except for the value rooms, added a sleeper chair in the living room of the 1BR (except for the values) and thus allowed 5 with sleeping spaces for all five.VGC and BLT came next, with VGC retaining the 4-person 1BR set-up while BLT added the sleeper chair. OKW added the sleeper chair during a 2010-11 refurb.Aulani opened in 2011 with the traditional 4-sleeping spaces in the 1BR. In 2012, VGF opened and added a pull down Murphy bed from the cabinet beneath the TV as a fifth sleeping space in the 1BR. In 2017, CCV opened with only 4-sleeping spaces and allows only 4 in a 1BR (the 1BRs are smaller than those at any other resort). Riviera has the Murphy bed addition like VGF.

The result: you can put 5 in a 1BR everywhere except CCV, but the fifth sleeping space is provided only at AKV, BLT, VGF, OKW and Riviera; at the others you need to provide your own bedding for the fifth.

As to Studios:

All studios allowed only 4 until VGF opened in 2012, and added the Murphy bed that pulls down from the cabinet below the TV. Poly and Riviera studios (other than Tower) both also have had the Murphy bed since opening and allow 5. During refurbs that occurred between 2014 and 2018, BRV, BWV, and BCV, all added the Murphy bed to their studios.

Result: VGF, Poly, BRV, BWV, BCV, and Riviera all allow 5 in a studios and have the extra bed for the fifth, the other resorts do not.

Be aware that adding a fifth sleeping space to the studios at resorts that still only allow four is a controversial issue. Some would like that but many of us have serious misgivings. The reason: it just adds further to the oversell of studios that began in 2010. It was then, during the Great Recession, that DVD significantly lowered the the minimum points a new purchaser could purchase from a160 to 100 and at times to 50 and 75, and that issue continues today. Meanwhile, at about the same time, DVD began a process of greatly raising new purchase prices to the effect that over the last 10-11 years, prices have increased greater than 100%,while during most of that time the economy was stagnant at best, and wages increased little. DVD also added new resorts with substantially higher point-per-night costs than the older resorts, further increasing the percentage of purchasers who could purchase only enough points to get studios. Adding to the problem, DVD added a lot of bungalows and cabins with highly excessive point costs, for which few could afford to buy enough points to use, but those gave DVD the oppurtunity to sell those extra points to those who could afford only cheaper rooms such as studios. And to top it all off, DVD added a fifth sleeping space to studios that previously allowed only four to further cause an oversell of studios.

The result of DVD's actions in the last ten years is the problem that now exists, in that it is becoming more and more difficult from year to year for members to reserve many of the studios even at 11-months out. And how does the modern DVD/DVC react in trying to fix the problems DVD has created? Not by deciding to raise minimum point purchase requirements and lower new purchase prices, and not by deciding to build a huge number of studios in the new resorts. Instead, its suggested way of fixing the problem is to create improper new point charts that significantly raise the total points that apply to reserving rooms during many years, thus decreasing the value of the members' points.



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[shaunacb]

VGC retaining the 4-person 1BR set-up

Thanks for this summary! As a family of 5, it is nice to have a list of rooms that sleep 5. One correction: We own at VGC, and the 1BR sleeps 5 (has the extra single pull down bed).

 

[Deb & Bill]

When we bought in 1997, they had a villa called a Studio Plus at BWV. It was dedicated studio with a tiny day bed where the connecting door would have been. It was about crib sized with a thin mattress on it. Like a deacon's bench. That made a fifth sleeping space for a child. It was a bit smaller than the bunk sized murphy bed. They didn't have this bench in the one bedroom.

 

[CarolynFH]

When we bought in 1997, they had a villa called a Studio Plus at BWV. It was dedicated studio with a tiny day bed where the connecting door would have been. It was about crib sized with a thin mattress on it. Like a deacon's bench. That made a fifth sleeping space for a child. It was a bit smaller than the bunk sized murphy bed. They didn't have this bench in the one bedroom.

Hmm, 1996 Thanksgiving (BWV had been open only a few months) we must have stayed in a studio plus, because it had two queens and the little day bed. It was perfect for the four of us (son and daughter). I remember when we booked it wondering how a studio was different from a hotel room and when we arrived seeing that it had a kitchenette, which a hotel room wouldn’t have. The fold out couches must have taken the place of the 2nd queen sometime after that.

 

[Evita_W]

There are numerous factors that play into this, including space available in the room, but the biggest issue is what fire codes will allow and there may even be some differences between counties. Considering parts of Disney World cover two different counties, they can be differences there too. And factors like is it somewhere like OKW where there are no corridors or is it AKL where everything is corridors? A lot of different factors all influence this.