Hillary Clinton --- Is this true?

[WillyJ]

Be my guest Bet. . I did address it to Kendra, but I'd be interested in anyone's opinion on either side. .


MHopkins;

That's probably the smartest reply in this thread so far.. LOL!!

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by WillyJ

Do you really believe that Kerry is that awful with no redeming qualities and that Bush is that great and that his every intention is truly only what's best for country with no thought to anything else?

I'm not speaking for Kendra but that's basically my position. I don't think there is any politician that's never looked out for themselves first at one time or another.

But aside from that, do you really think one is "evil" and one is "good"?

No, I think one (Kerry) is a bad choice while the other(Bush) is the better choice.

Neither one is evil. But that hasn't stopped people from calling them that.

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by WillyJ
I'm curious Kendra. . and I promise I don't mean this sarcastically; I'm honestly curious:

Do you really believe that Kerry is that awful with no redeming qualities and that Bush is that great and that his every intention is truly only what's best for country with no thought to anything else?

See, I think they are both politicians and little rich-boy Yalies who both get the money to run their campaigns from the same special interest groups and there are much more similarities between them then differences. . .

But aside from that, do you really think one is "evil" and one is "good"?

Thanks, WillyJ, for being kind!

I agree with you; Yes, they are both silver-spooned politicians from Yale.

In general, i do think that Bush is a better leader--having already proven himself, whereas Kerry's 20 years of Senate service and silence about that fact at the DNC speak for themselves.

This is probably the most important Presidential election, ever--because we are at war with the criminals and other terrorists. John Kerry sees this as a legal matter to be handled by the Justice Department and the UN. Clinton's presidency has already proven this to be ineffective. Bush understands that we're at war with fanatic murderers who would readily use nuclear and chemical weapons against us. This isn't a matter of the Justice Dept. or the UN--it's a situation best handled by the military.

So, to answer your question fundamentally. . .Bush "gets it" and Kerry doesn't. That is the basis of my criticism of Kerry.

No, of course I don't think that Kerry's evil, and no, I don't think that Bush is all good. They differ so vastly on the major issues that one really has to make a decision based upon those differences. For some people, that issue is abortion (my mom's major issue, for instance--she's pro choice), or affirmative action, or restructuring the health care system, or tort reform. For me, the core issue is prevention of another major attack and destruction of the terrorists who want to destroy our country. I believe that Bush is best-suited to lead us in this war. He recognizes we are at war, and Kerry doesn't.

Thanks for being kind!

Side note: For my entire adult life, I was a confirmed and loyal democrat. Yes, I voted for Clinton. Yes, I voted for Gore. Since the impeachment of Clinton, and subsequent terror attacks, the Democratic party's Business-as-Usual approach caused me to totally reevaluate my political beliefs. ------

Anyways, I decided that my belief system were actually centrist and right, rather than left. To me, a President committing habitual adultery (indiscreetly), ought not to be an event minimized by the party's faithful, but rather a cause for removal of that President. The subsequent perjury was confirmation that Clinton needed to be removed. The fact that the entire Establishment of the Democratic party rallied to the defense of the adulterer, perjurer, philanderer, and sexual harasser, was the point at which I decided to leave the party. Now, I don't ever see any cause to return.

 

[WillyJ]

Thanks for you're reply Elwood. . . I do think the "demonizing" of both candidates has gotten way out of hand this election. . .


Personally I wish we had a viable third choice because I'm not real fond of either Kerry or Bush. . . but I don't think either is "evil" as well. . .

 

[bsnyder]

I'll just say ditto to this part of Kendra's post:

I agree with you; Yes, they are both silver-spooned politicians from Yale.

In general, i do think that Bush is a better leader--having already proven himself, whereas Kerry's 20 years of Senate service and silence about that fact at the DNC speak for themselves.

This is probably the most important Presidential election, ever--because we are at war with the criminals and other terrorists. John Kerry sees this as a legal matter to be handled by the Justice Department and the UN. Clinton's presidency has already proven this to be ineffective. Bush understands that we're at war with fanatic murderers who would readily use nuclear and chemical weapons against us. This isn't a matter of the Justice Dept. or the UN--it's a situation best handled by the military.

So, to answer your question fundamentally. . .Bush "gets it" and Kerry doesn't. That is the basis of my criticism of Kerry.

One of my big fears is that after the next attack, we'll have a collective knee jerk reaction and implement some very draconian measures that grossly limit our current freedoms. And that could maybe be prevented if the reactionaries would allow some sensible and measured responses now, on immigration, intelligence collection and yes, military action.

But Bush is fighting two wars....one against the terrorists and one against the constant and unrelenting criticisms of the far left.

There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism and opposition, that's one of the basic functions of our two party system. But it's gotten far, far beyond that.

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Vast majority?? Really now.

What's so funny about your response is that it's typical and expected. But what's even funnier is that the OT is about Hillary not Kerry.

As is your post.

Yes, a vast majority, really now. Had you bothered to check before you posted, you'd see that it was absolutely true.

Because neither you nor Kendra will allow facts to enter into your postings, I did a quick scan of the past 10 pages of posts with some not so surprising results. Btw, I didn't include any political threads that could possibly be considered by anyone to be non-bashing. For instance, this thread was not included in the count.


Liberal Bashing 6, Conservative Bashing 1. I'd say 6 to 1 is a vast majority.

I thought the same as you, when I read her response.

What a surprise, you and Elwood think alike. Facts are facts, even when you don't like them. There are many more Kerry bashing threads than Bush. That's the way it is whether you want it to be or not.

Edited to add...I changed the labels Kerry and Bush bashing to liberal and conservative...just trying to be accurate...

 

[Kendra17]

Originally posted by peachgirl
As is your post.

Yes, a vast majority, really now. Had you bothered to check before you posted, you'd see that it was absolutely true.

Because neither you nor Kendra will allow facts to enter into your postings, I did a quick scan of the past 10 pages of posts with some not so surprising results. Btw, I didn't include any political threads that could possibly be considered by anyone to be non-bashing. For instance, this thread was not included in the count.


Kerry Bashing 6, Bush Bashing 1. I'd say 6 to 1 is a vast majority.




What a surprise, you and Elwood think alike. Facts are facts, even when you don't like them. There are many more Kerry bashing threads than Bush. That's the way it is whether you want it to be or not.

Peachgirl,

What to you constitutes Kerry bashing? Pointing out his political record? Mentioning his inconsistent voting record? Questioning his platform? Taking issue with the shrillness of his colleagues screams (they DO scream. . .the republicans don't. . .that's just kind of true)

Even questioning the possibility that he may implode, as I was severly flamed for before, isn't bashing, I don't think.

However, calling Bush a moron, a liar, etc., a racist, etc., is actually bashing and insulting.

What about personal insults made from one poster to another? Did you do a quick scan on that? Did you find that more Kerry supporters are snide and insulting or that more Bush supporters are? I didn't do a quick scan on that, but I'd bet you that it's NOT the Bush supporters.

Lastly, I have never neglected the facts in posts. I let my politics be known, as all of us do, but I use real news stories to start discussions and talk about what's going on. Yes, I use strong language-- maybe a bit too strong. However, I clearly differentiate from my opinion and from a fact i'm reporting. And, if I state my opinon, I have some type of fact to back it up. I have never, once, stated something inflammatory regarding anyone without some information as to why I'm saying it. I haven't seen Elwood or LuvsDisney or any other Bush supporter do that, either. I have, though, seen many Kerry supporters do this. '

At the risk of starting a new reason to ire a bunch of posters, I'll refrain from mentioning their names. . .but, I certainly CAN. . .they're very easy to find, and they're on this thread, too.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by WillyJ
And I thought this thread was about whether or not the guy in the pics "hand signal" meant anything significant?

I don't think it was Peach Girl who brought up Kerry and Yucca Mountain and Abraham Lincoln and 9/11 and. . .

You're correct. I was the one that brought up Yucca Mtn., but peachgirl was the individual that started the bashing. I've posted all the responses to my original post. Please take the time to read below or just go to the beginning of the thread.

She complains about people bashing political members/parties, but she's the one that started the bashing on this thread

Second Post
I'm sure she can stick her tongue out like that, but how does she turn her face green?

Third Post
LOL! Snopes doesn't allow their photos to be shared with other websites, that's why you got that big green nasty up there!

Fourth Post
if that's true, i think that's sort of classless of the soldier. airforcerocks posted on here awhile back about how she had to shake oliver north's hand at work, and eventhough she wasn't thrilled about it, she handled herself appropriately.

Fifth Post
I love snopes! They have the best pictures and stories.

Sixth Post
I like Snopes too. Whenver I get those annoying forwards, I always reply with a link to Snopes.

Seventh Post (by peachgirl)
I agree. The only one who looks bad in that photo is the soldier. It was hardly the appropriate behavior for a man in uniform.

Btw, can the Republicans find anything positive to say about the politicians in their party?

It's a rhetorical question as this thread is just further proof that they can't.

Btw, I certainly hope no future POW's use that signal since it would be pretty obvious to the enemy what they were doing.

Nice job, soldier.....

 

[peachgirl]

peachgirl was the individual that started the bashing.

Since you're talking about me....

No, I didn't. You did, with your very first post.

Still that sig line.....When you post a comment that means Democrats don't want to work, that's pretty much bashing wouldn't you say?

Sorry, but I find your claim that you really only started this thread to get an honest answer to be disingenuous to say the least.

For instance, there's a thread that asked if anyone had any information about the incident in which Laura Bush was speeding, ran a stop sign and killed someone as a result. The op claims they just want details...I suspect that's not true just as I suspect your question wasn't.

Again my apologies, but when the bashing is running 6 to 1 against liberals, it gets a little tiresome.

Btw, I included neither in my count of liberal vs conservative bashing.

 

[peachgirl]

Keep in mind, I only counted threads, not individual posts...


"What to you constitutes Kerry bashing? Pointing out his political record?"

No, didn't see any threads like that and wouldn't have counted them if I did.

"Mentioning his inconsistent voting record? Questioning his platform?"

No, didn't see any threads started with that subject and wouldn't have counted them if I did.

"Taking issue with the shrillness of his colleagues screams (they DO scream. . .the republicans don't. . .that's just kind of true)"

I do believe there was one thread that had that subject and while I disagree with that position, I didn't count it as bashing.


"What about personal insults made from one poster to another? Did you do a quick scan on that? Did you find that more Kerry supporters are snide and insulting or that more Bush supporters are? I didn't do a quick scan on that, but I'd bet you that it's NOT the Bush supporters."

No, didn't read indivual threads. I think you're wrong, but since I don't want to do the work to prove it, I won't claim it as fact one way or the other. You do the count and we'll talk about it. Otherwise, that's just a guess on both our parts.

Even questioning the possibility that he may implode,

Oh that was definitely bashing in my opinion, but just to be overly fair and as I knew you'd want to argue that one, I didn't count it.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by peachgirl
No, I didn't. You did, with your very first post.

Sure, I ask a question about the finger and you start the bashing

Still that sig line.....When you post a comment that means Democrats don't want to work, that's pretty much bashing wouldn't you say?

Where did I say that, "democrats don't want to work?" Please refrain from putting words in my mouth. It's common knowledge that the democrats are easier on individuals that want to stay unemployed. I'm all for assisting the "needy," but if they receive government funds then they should be required to work a minimum of 40 hours, unless there are medical circumstances.

So, everytime I post a question or respond to a thread you'll consider my posts as "political bashing?" What about your avatar and countdown clock? I see you didn't take the time to read John 8:7.

For instance, there's a thread that asked if anyone had any information about the incident in which Laura Bush was speeding, ran a stop sign and killed someone as a result. The op claims they just want details...I suspect that's not true just as I suspect your question wasn't.

May I suggest you submit an employment application to the CIA, FBI or Homeland Security. Not all post are directed to bashing. I was raised military and never heard about the hand signals. I went to snoops and they did not confirm or deny this picture. So, I posted the question in hopes that one of the many military families that frequent these boards would respond. As I said before, you need to lighten up!

 

[peachgirl]

So, everytime I post a question or respond to a thread you'll consider my posts as "political bashing?" What about your avatar and countdown clock? I see you didn't take the time to read John 8:7.

Yes, and save the bible thumping for someone else, it's wasted on me when it's used in a political debate. Apparently you didn't read what I posted either, because I already addressed the issue of my avatar and countdown clock. But, exactly how does my countdown clock insult any individual voter? How does my "no Bush" avatar insult anyone?

So, I suppose a sig line that says...."If you're wealthy, vote Republican...kids may starve, but you'll get richer"...wouldn't be insulting?

It's common knowledge that the Republican party favors those who are wealthy.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Yes, and save the bible thumping for someone else, it's wasted on me when it's used in a political debate. Apparently you didn't read what I posted either, because I already addressed the issue of my avatar and countdown clock. But, exactly how does my countdown clock insult any individual voter? How does my "no Bush" avatar insult anyone?

Cool, I can leave the bible out (I'm not too religious either). However, I find it funny that you are consistanly bashing my signature, but find "excuses" for yours. How is my signature insulting "any individual voter?" I'm directing my comment to the entire political party, I'm not directing it to an individual. The difference is that your are making a direct, personal attack against one individual, while I'm attacking an entire poltical party.

As for your avatar ---- I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States. What amazes me is the number of times you have commented on my signature. I've never made a comment on your signature/avatar, until this thread. What happened to free speech? Basically, your comments to my signature line is childish and getting old. Suck it up ---- I have no plans of removing it, like you have no plans of removing yours.

It's common knowledge that the Republican party favors those who are wealthy.

It's also common knowledge that the Republicans are pro military. Why should I vote for a democrat that's soft on national defense?

 

[peachgirl]

How is my signature insulting "any individual voter?" I'm directing my comment to the entire political party, I'm not directing it to an individual.

Ok then, you're just insulting every individual who votes democratic. You're right, you're not insulting just one person, you're insulting millions.

The difference is that your are making a direct, personal attack against one individual, while I'm attacking an entire poltical party

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President???? You're right, insulting an entire group of people is ever so much better than just insulting one.

I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States.

I'm not at all sure there are. I've never had anyone complain about my avatar or my countdown clock except you.

As I said, I hardly think it's "disrespectful" to voice my opinion using what is more like a internet "bumper sticker" that says I don't like this President. Perhaps it's "un-American" too, right?

If my avatar or my countdown clock portrayed Bush in a negative light you might have a point. If I said..."X" number of days until that brainless idiot is out of office", that would be insulting and disrespectful. Saying that I want Bush on permanent vacation isn't.

Basically, your comments to my signature line is childish and getting old.

As you say suck it up. It's staying. Well, at least until this election is over and Bush is on permanent vacation.

 

[peachgirl]

How is my signature insulting "any individual voter?" I'm directing my comment to the entire political party, I'm not directing it to an individual.

Ok then, you're just insulting every individual who votes democratic. You're right, you're not insulting just one person, you're insulting millions.

The difference is that your are making a direct, personal attack against one individual, while I'm attacking an entire poltical party

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States.

I'm not at all sure there are. I've never had anyone complain about my avatar or my countdown clock except you.

As I said, I hardly think it's "disrespectful" to voice my opinion using what is more like a internet "bumper sticker" that says I don't like this President. Perhaps it's "un-American" too, right?

If my avatar or my countdown clock portrayed Bush in a negative light you might have a point. If I said..."X" number of days until that brainless idiot is out of office", that would be insulting and disrespectful. Saying that I want Bush on permanent vacation isn't.

Basically, your comments to my signature line is childish and getting old.

As you say suck it up. You're right, mine is staying right where it is. Well, at least until this election is over and Bush is on permanent vacation.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Wow, I must have you really flustered --- doubling posting.

Originally posted by peachgirl
Ok then, you're just insulting every individual who votes democratic. You're right, you're not insulting just one person, you're insulting millions.

Nope, I would disagree with you. Where did I say I'm insulting people who vote democratic? I said, "I'm directing my comment to the entire political party." I've had many democratic friends who think this signature thread is quite funny. Please, don't try to put words into my mouth or twist my words, it just makes you look silly.

Are you sure you're a democrat/American? I thought democrats/Americans were for free speech and the right to voice their opinions. Any chance you're related to John Kerry? Remember that verse I asked you to read? The one about casting the first stone .........

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

There you go again, twisting my words. What I said was, "I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States." I'm sure your parents raised you to show respect, didn't they?

I've never had anyone complain about my avatar or my countdown clock except you.

I could have said the same. However, just recently you started to spout disapproval of my signature thread. Then the rest of the liberal democrats jumped on the bandwagon. The difference between the democrats and republicans is that the republicans don't give a damn about petty little things like this, while the democrats want to whine all the time --- boo hoo.

As I said, I hardly think it's "disrespectful" to voice my opinion using what is more like a internet "bumper sticker" that says I don't like this President. Perhaps it's "un-American" too, right?

Wow, we may agree on something??? Look at my "Vote Democrat ---- It's easier than working" as an internet bumper sticker. As for the "un-American" --- if you think it's un-American Iwon't argue with you, everyone has a right to voice their opinion. If you think it's un-American then stick with that story.

If my avatar or my countdown clock portrayed Bush in a negative light you might have a point. If I said..."X" number of days until that brainless idiot is out of office", that would be insulting and disrespectful.

And if I said, "that all democrats were flip-flopping, spineless, whining, lazy, bums who don't give a damn about America and expect something for nothing," that would be insulting and disrespectful.

As you say suck it up. You're right, mine is staying right where it is. Well, at least until this election is over and Bush is on permanent vacation.

And mine is staying too. The question should be, "How many more "complaints" will I have to listen from you, concerning my signature line? As I said, I don't give a damn about other people's signature thread, countdown clock or avatar. The only reason I mentioned yours was because of your constant harassement about mine. Get over it, it's staying until the election --- so get use to it!

 

[peachgirl]

I said, "I'm directing my comment to the entire political party."

Last time I checked, the "entire political party" was made up of people.

Are you sure you're a democrat/American?

Typical and predictable.


My statement:

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

Your reponse:

There you go again, twisting my words. What I said was, "I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States."

No, that is not what you said as far as my response goes. It doesn't help your credibility when you quote my statements and pretend I was responding to a statement that had nothing to do with my statement. Talk about twisting words!This is what you said that I was responding to:

The difference is that your are making a direct, personal attack against one individual

Nice try though....

However, just recently you started to spout disapproval of my signature thread. Then the rest of the liberal democrats jumped on the bandwagon.

Actually, that's an out and out lie. I wasn't the first one, and I'm quite sure you know it. If you need the link to prove it, just let me know.

The difference between the democrats and republicans is that the republicans don't give a damn

Something we can agree on.

"How many more "complaints" will I have to listen from you, concerning my signature line?

As many as I choose to post. Quit whining, remember Republicans don't whine over petty things????

Get over it, it's staying until the election --- so get use to it!

I would humbly suggest that you are the one who should get used to it.

 

[we3luvdisney]

You are related to John Kerry!

Originally posted by peachgirl
Last time I checked, the "entire political party" was made up of people.

Yes, and President Bush represents the entire Republican party. Shall we continue to split hairs?

Typical and predictable

Nope, what's typical and predictable is your excessive whining about something as petty as this.

No, that is not what you said as far as my response goes. It doesn't help your credibility when you quote my statements and pretend I was responding to a statement that had nothing to do with my statement.

So, you didn't say,

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

I responded to your quote, "I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States." There ARE people in this country that may feel your items are insulting to the highest office in the USA.

Again, the difference between us is that my signature line deals with an entire political party. However, you seem to receive enjoyment by selecting individuals and insulting them. It's been apparent by your countdown clock & avatar and your childish responses to my signature. Again, did your parents raise you this way?

Actually, that's an out and out lie. I wasn't the first one, and I'm quite sure you know it. If you need the link to prove it, just let me know.

I stand corrected. Someone beat you by 4 minutes. However, I do believe you are the only one that keeps harping about it. You constant barrage makes me wonder if you're still in high school?

As many as I choose to post.

Gee, that was an intelligent response. This truly shows your age!

I would humbly suggest that you are the one who should get used to it.

I'm not the one that has this obsession/fetish/fixation over other people's signature line.

 

[peachgirl]

Yes, and President Bush represents the entire Republican party. Shall we continue to split hairs?

As long as you want to, we will. What difference does it make that Bush represents the entire Republican party? I'm not insulting him. We are allowed in this country to say that we don't want our President to be re-elected and it's not considered attacking him.

So, you didn't say,Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

Yes, I did say that. However, you did some creative editing. I was NOT responding to the following...

I'm sure there are people that feel it's disrespectful to the highest office in the United States." There ARE people in this country that may feel your items are insulting to the highest office in the USA.

Here's what I really said in that thread....

I quoted you directly:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The difference is that your are making a direct, personal attack against one individual, while I'm attacking an entire poltical party"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then I responded:

Have we really gotten to the point where saying that we don't want a President re-elected is insulting to that President????

As you can plainly see, my response was not to the quote you claim.

However, you seem to receive enjoyment by selecting individuals and insulting them. It's been apparent by your countdown clock & avatar

Who's whining now? Again, explain to me how a "no bush" avatar or a countdown clock to the day that Bush leaves office is insulting or attacking anyone.

Someone beat you by 4 minutes.

Actually, that's not true either. The post you're referring to simply said "Excellent point", and nothing more. There were many posts before I actually voiced my opinion. I count at least 5 other posters in less than 2 pages who complained about your signature line.

I'm not the one that has this obsession/fetish/fixation over other people's signature line.

Hmmm...sure sounds like an awful lot of whining about a silly avatar and countdown clock to me. You're really beginning to sound like a spoiled two year old having a temper tantrum.

 

[we3luvdisney]

Originally posted by peachgirl
As long as you want to, we will. What difference does it make that Bush represents the entire Republican party? I'm not insulting him. We are allowed in this country to say that we don't want our President to be re-elected and it's not considered attacking him.

And I have every right to have my signature line.

Yes, I did say that. However, you did some creative editing. I was NOT responding to the following...

Nope, I selected the quote option at the bottom of your thread and posted to your statements. There was no "creative editing." Go back and read your post and look at my response post to your post.

Who's whining now? Again, explain to me how a "no bush" avatar or a countdown clock to the day that Bush leaves office is insulting or attacking anyone.

I lean toward the republican party, we don't whine. I'll leave the whining to you, because you do it so well. I can see it now, you're probably fuming over your keyboard because someone dares to confront you on your childress, asinine, non-intelligent posts.

What's really amazing is that you are making yourself look like an *** by continuing this disagreement.

Actually, that's not true either. The post you're referring to simply said "Excellent point", and nothing more. There were many posts before I actually voiced my opinion. I count at least 5 other posters in less than 2 pages who complained about your signature line.

Ask me if I give a damn! The only person that really seems to care is you!

Hmmm...sure sounds like an awful lot of whining about a silly avatar and countdown clock to me. You're really beginning to sound like a spoiled two year old having a temper tantrum.

Let's not forget who started the signature line bashing on this thread first. Again, how original --- I indicate that you must be in high school because of your non-intelligent post and you come back with this line. This is so typical --- just another democrat without an original thought in their head.