High school girl sent to office and told to put band aids on her nipples

[DopeyDame]

Wait — this sounds like it discriminates against BOYS. Boys naturally grow facial hair — there’s nothing wrong with facial hair — it’s not distracting to anyone, and if it is, that’s their problem— why should the boys be singled out this way?!?!

I acutally do think it's a crazy rule. What's wrong with a beard? I'm not a guy and my son is still little, so maybe I'm missing some rationale, but why do schools have rules against facial hair? (Obviously in a parochial school they can have any rules they want, but I'm trying to understand the logic.)

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I acutally do think it's a crazy rule. What's wrong with a beard? I'm not a guy and my son is still little, so maybe I'm missing some rationale, but why do schools have rules against facial hair? (Obviously in a parochial school they can have any rules they want, but I'm trying to understand the logic.)

I don't know... couple of all-boys private schools around here have these same rules. They express it being part of having a "neat appearance". Perhaps easier to say "no facial hair" than to start detailing what a "neat beard appearance" might be (length, grooming, whatever else!)?!

This would just be so far down my list of things to worry about as a parent that I can't get worked up about it one way or the other. If I picked such a school because I thought it was the best fit for my son academically, socially, etc., we would just adhere to it. Hard to muster a moral objection to a clean shave... at least for me.

 

[DopeyDame]

Thwre has been a lot said here about blind compliance and what is or isn’t the school’s job vs a parent’s job.

I don’t think anyone here has said anyone should just blindly comply with anything. I don’t know about others but my kids were taught if you don’t agree with a rule then you work toward changing it. But in the meantime you follow said rule. Petitions, parent/student groups, going to the school board are all ways to change a rule. But every rule isn’t worth fighting.

But otoh, imo, we all comply with rules, laws, society norms, the norms of our peers, etc. Some of you live in places where the number of cars in your driveway is limited or you can’t cut down a tree making a mess in your yard or there is a rule about your garbage can. You are complying. Why are any of you so against your teens learning that sometimes you do just have to comply with rules?

As far as parenting, I am sure all school administrators would be thrilled if all their students were parented, taught right from wrong and appropriate behavior and yes how to dress appropriately for school and other things in their lives. But that isn’t reality. They can just pick certain kids for certain rules so they have to make them for all of them.

I'm going to guess there's a lot of overlap between the anti-school-dress code and anti-home owners association posters (and vice versa for pro-HOA and pro-strict dress code posters)
For me, I'd hate to live somewhere with a limit on the number of cars in my driveway, and I have no problem if the neighbors leave the garbage can out for an extra day. And I think the school was soooo far off base and totally inappropriate in handling this poor girl.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm going to guess there's a lot of overlap between the anti-school-dress code and anti-home owners association posters (and vice versa for pro-HOA and pro-strict dress code posters)
For me, I'd hate to live somewhere with a limit on the number of cars in my driveway, and I have no problem if the neighbors leave the garbage can out for an extra day. And I think the school was soooo far off base and totally inappropriate in handling this poor girl.

I am not a fan of HOAs at all, and I am totally fine with a well-defined and enforced dress code.

And as I've said many times, this school handled this particular situation horribly. Doesn't mean I'm against dress codes when enforced properly.

 

[luvsJack]

I'm going to guess there's a lot of overlap between the anti-school-dress code and anti-home owners association posters (and vice versa for pro-HOA and pro-strict dress code posters)
For me, I'd hate to live somewhere with a limit on the number of cars in my driveway, and I have no problem if the neighbors leave the garbage can out for an extra day. And I think the school was soooo far off base and totally inappropriate in handling this poor girl.

Oh, I do too. I would have been at the school and loudly complaining about her treatment had it been my dd. BUT, I also realize that there is a need for dress codes and compliance.

I live in the boonies so no HOA for me but every time I read a thread about trees someone can't cut, or garbage can rules, I think to myself "thank God for my woods and NO crazy rules". LOL I would guess its just what someone is willing to live with and I am willing to live with a dress code but not with someone telling me I have to park my kids car somewhere else because I can't have three cars in my own driveway.

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm going to guess there's a lot of overlap between the anti-school-dress code and anti-home owners association posters (and vice versa for pro-HOA and pro-strict dress code posters)
For me, I'd hate to live somewhere with a limit on the number of cars in my driveway, and I have no problem if the neighbors leave the garbage can out for an extra day. And I think the school was soooo far off base and totally inappropriate in handling this poor girl.

Not for me. I'm not a fan of HOA's but don't have a problem with a reasonable dress code.

That said, I agree this situation appears to have been handled very poorly.

 

[sk!mom]

Not saying you are wrong but if she had been in dress code violation, BOTH would have been in the wrong.

The older girl getting the tshirt for her would have solved any dress code violation, but she did it so the girl would not be embarrassed.

My point was that everyone assumes when they say “distraction” it’s automatically meant that the boys are distracted when that isn’t always the case.

Honestly no matter how many scenarios that your DD witnessed and you come up with here, you will not change my opinion on dress codes. Especially when the incident that started the thread and every example you put forward furthers my point that girls are being told that their bodies are the distraction. Not clothing with an inappropriate slogan or message but their bodies.

As a woman, a mom, and an educator that will never be ok with me.

I would urge those on both sides to do some reading on the implicit and explicit bias of dress codes.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I would urge those on both sides to do some reading on the implicit and explicit bias of dress codes.

I thought that's what I was doing here...

I have. I PERSONALLY (JMO) think it is mostly ridiculous in this day and age -- feels like looking for things to be upset about -- TO ME. I now understand better from this thread that there really are some people who take that idea to heart.

 

[sk!mom]

I thought that's what I was doing here...

I have. I PERSONALLY (JMO) think it is mostly ridiculous in this day and age -- feels like looking for things to be upset about -- TO ME. I now understand better from this thread that there really are some people who take that idea to heart.

Judging from the bolded, I’m going to guess that you are white and truly do not understand implicit bias. Please go watch the Starbucks video and read their response to it. Even they are recognizing it and feeling shame for it. This thread has been mostly about the bias toward girls but many codes definitely extend to racial bias as well.

Implicit bias is real and I’m proud to care about it.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Judging from the bolded, i’m Going to guess that you are white and truly do not understand implicit bias. Please go watch the Starbucks video and read their response to it. Even they are recognizing it and feeling shame for it. This thread has been mostly about the bias toward girls but many codes definitely extend to racial bias as well.

I spend a good deal of my time and charitable contributions working for an urban NPO that serves homeless and low-income women. I do not need an education on implicit bias.

I disagree wholeheartedly with your characterization of dress codes as implicitly biased today. I certainly believe that it is possible that SOME still exist that are biased. I do not believe from the bit of research I've done that this is at all the general case.

We don't agree. That does not mean that one of us must be ignorant -- it may well be that we just have a difference of opinion. That's still ok today, right?

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes. That is what you described sounds like to me -- thinking that a dress code is designed as "an effort to shunt females to the side, preferably not to be seen or heard". That genuinely sounds sad to me, and I'm glad that my daughter doesn't see it that way. Feels like the opposite of empowering. But yes -- we obviously see this VERY differently.

You're of course welcome to put whatever kinds of constructs on it that you see fit, understanding that it has no bearing on the reality of the situation. I do find your "concern" over my daughter's empowerment curious in light of your repeated need to make digs about her upbringing and character. IMO resorting to insults isn't supportive of one's viewpoint, quite the opposite in fact.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I'm going to guess there's a lot of overlap between the anti-school-dress code and anti-home owners association posters (and vice versa for pro-HOA and pro-strict dress code posters)
For me, I'd hate to live somewhere with a limit on the number of cars in my driveway, and I have no problem if the neighbors leave the garbage can out for an extra day. And I think the school was soooo far off base and totally inappropriate in handling this poor girl.

I hate HOAs and refused to even consider a neighborhood that had one when we were looking for our current house.

As I have stated before, I have no problem with dress codes at all as long as they are clearly defined, and enforced for both genders and aren't obviously intended to keep the girls covered to prevent distracting the boys.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

You're of course welcome to put whatever kinds of constructs on it that you see fit, understanding that it has no bearing on the reality of the situation. I do find your "concern" over my daughter's empowerment curious in light of your repeated need to make digs about her upbringing and character. IMO resorting to insults isn't supportive of one's viewpoint, quite the opposite in fact.

We're obviously talking past each other. I'll leave it at that.

 

[cabanafrau]

Private a schools cannot have rules that are unlawful however. Which is what was ruled in this case.



Protesting is a way of changing the rules. It is how my fathers generation banished uniforms from public schools in Montreal in the 50s.
And it’s how these boys changed their school dress codes:

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp....ts-to-school-protest-no-shorts-uniform-policy

Private schools in the US cannot have rules which are unlawful either. Laws in the US are not all the same as those in other parts of the world.

 

[Lilsia]

Private schools in the US cannot have rules which are unlawful either. Laws in the US are not all the same as those in other parts of the world.

I am glad that has changed. When I was in elementary school, my parents put us into a catholic school. Back then they did not have to follow any of the educational guide lines. We had "teachers" that never went to college. I was in 2nd grade and no one could read past the basic words. The "teacher" said it was because we were loosing our baby teeth so we were incapable of learning at that time. Another think I would like to say is we had uniforms and the girls had to wear the jumper, which was a skirt. We could not wear any pants. This is the worst thing you can force your daugter into doing. First off it was freezing all winter! Our legs would go numb from the cold because we could not wear anything on them. They would send us outside for recess in all weather, not to mention walking to and from school. Another major thing was the harassment we got from the boys. Starting in 4th grade the boys just loved looking up our skirts in the stairwells. They would laugh about it and the teachers did nothing. It was demeaning and humiliating and I still remember the feeling of that almost 40 years later. And yes, the boys at the age of 9,10, and 11 were all doing this. They are more then aware of the sexual differences by that age. That is why I have a big issue with boys that age in the woman's restroom. I am sure their mom's never would have dreamed their baby boy would do that, but they DO. So girls had zero say in what they were able to wear because of "dress code" but were still harassed through no fault of our own.

 

[luvsJack]

Honestly no matter how many scenarios that your DD witnessed and you come up with here, you will not change my opinion on dress codes. Especially when the incident that started the thread and every example you put forward furthers my point that girls are being told that their bodies are the distraction. Not clothing with an inappropriate slogan or message but their bodies.

As a woman, a mom, and an educator that will never be ok with me.

I would urge those on both sides to do some reading on the implicit and explicit bias of dress codes.

But what you are refusing to accept is that boys are told the same thing. What they wear can also be a distraction and they can be in violation because of it. If the dress codes in YOUR schools are written that way, then you or the parents need to address it.

I can read dress codes that my kids and/or grandkids have to abide by and know where there is a bias. There isn't. When both genders are either told the same things or both have things that one can do and the other not, I do not feel there is an inequality. There is a difference but not bias.

There are many inequalities in this world for men and women. There are many places where women cannot succeed or cannot move up in the work place because of their gender. THOSE are worth fighting for. My dd wearing a bra? I don't see that as worth fighting for. No one is telling them their education is worth less than a boy's, that is the way some are choosing to look it perhaps. If a boy is pulled out of class to be reprimanded for some dress code violation, do you see them saying his education is worth less than whomever made the complaint or the other students in the class? If the girl was pulled out of class because of some other rule violation (not dress code), are they still staying her education is not as important?

 

[cabanafrau]

I am glad that has changed. When I was in elementary school, my parents put us into a catholic school. Back then they did not have to follow any of the educational guide lines. We had "teachers" that never went to college. I was in 2nd grade and no one could read past the basic words. The "teacher" said it was because we were loosing our baby teeth so we were incapable of learning at that time. Another think I would like to say is we had uniforms and the girls had to wear the jumper, which was a skirt. We could not wear any pants. This is the worst thing you can force your daugter into doing. First off it was freezing all winter! Our legs would go numb from the cold because we could not wear anything on them. They would send us outside for recess in all weather, not to mention walking to and from school. Another major thing was the harassment we got from the boys. Starting in 4th grade the boys just loved looking up our skirts in the stairwells. They would laugh about it and the teachers did nothing. It was demeaning and humiliating and I still remember the feeling of that almost 40 years later. And yes, the boys at the age of 9,10, and 11 were all doing this. They are more then aware of the sexual differences by that age. That is why I have a big issue with boys that age in the woman's restroom. I am sure their mom's never would have dreamed their baby boy would do that, but they DO. So girls had zero say in what they were able to wear because of "dress code" but were still harassed through no fault of our own.

Private schools can, and do, legally have dress and grooming codes. That is known going in. It's not mandatory for students to attend Catholic schools if they don't like the rules.

My K-12 education was in non Catholic parochial schools. My schools, and all of the Catholic ones in our area, were accredited to insure quality of education provided. Catholic school students in our area are known to have received an extremely rigorous education, a tradition that continues to this day, with students widely accepted at the best colleges and universities in the country.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But what you are refusing to accept is that boys are told the same thing. What they wear can also be a distraction and they can be in violation because of it. If the dress codes in YOUR schools are written that way, then you or the parents need to address it.

I can read dress codes that my kids and/or grandkids have to abide by and know where there is a bias. There isn't. When both genders are either told the same things or both have things that one can do and the other not, I do not feel there is an inequality. There is a difference but not bias.

There are many inequalities in this world for men and women. There are many places where women cannot succeed or cannot move up in the work place because of their gender. THOSE are worth fighting for. My dd wearing a bra? I don't see that as worth fighting for. No one is telling them their education is worth less than a boy's, that is the way some are choosing to look it perhaps. If a boy is pulled out of class to be reprimanded for some dress code violation, do you see them saying his education is worth less than whomever made the complaint or the other students in the class? If the girl was pulled out of class because of some other rule violation (not dress code), are they still staying her education is not as important?

 

[cabanafrau]

But what you are refusing to accept is that boys are told the same thing. What they wear can also be a distraction and they can be in violation because of it. If the dress codes in YOUR schools are written that way, then you or the parents need to address it.

I can read dress codes that my kids and/or grandkids have to abide by and know where there is a bias. There isn't. When both genders are either told the same things or both have things that one can do and the other not, I do not feel there is an inequality. There is a difference but not bias.

There are many inequalities in this world for men and women. There are many places where women cannot succeed or cannot move up in the work place because of their gender. THOSE are worth fighting for. My dd wearing a bra? I don't see that as worth fighting for. No one is telling them their education is worth less than a boy's, that is the way some are choosing to look it perhaps. If a boy is pulled out of class to be reprimanded for some dress code violation, do you see them saying his education is worth less than whomever made the complaint or the other students in the class? If the girl was pulled out of class because of some other rule violation (not dress code), are they still staying her education is not as important?

You cannot even see the bias in your own daughter's wrestling league. Per your own words the gear of the female wrestlers is designed "to make you think you see more than you actually do". When I repeatedly asked you whether the male gear was designed with that thought you started dancing, suddenly feeling a desire to mix your daughter's league with WWE, which you had previously specifically wished to delineate as different from your daughter's league in apparel. Then you felt compelled to school me in the fact that male gear is very tight and form fitting, thereby showing a lot. That is a function of necessity with wrestling attire, NOT a desire to make anybody think they're seeing more than they truly are. Then I got the example of male wrestlers who are topless, which of course female wrestlers never are.

Why is it that the female wrestling attire is designed to make anybody think they see more than they actually do? The question is for you. I'm already well aware of the answer. The fact you refuse to acknowledge it doesn't make me inclined to accept your viewpoint on bias or lack of in school dress codes.

 

[Lilsia]

Private schools can, and do, legally have dress and grooming codes. That is known going in. It's not mandatory for students to attend Catholic schools if they don't like the rules.

My K-12 education was in non Catholic parochial schools. My schools, and all of the Catholic ones in our area, were accredited to insure quality of education provided. Catholic school students in our area are known to have received an extremely rigorous education, a tradition that continues to this day, with students widely accepted at the best colleges and universities in the country.

Yes, but what I was talking about was almost 40 years ago. And trust me, I has some words with my parents about sending us to a school like that.