High school girl sent to office and told to put band aids on her nipples

[cabanafrau]

Again -- I disagree that compliance is the only reason. But it is hilarious to me that some people are offending (mock? real?) by school IN PART teaching compliance. How unconscionable!!!

This is all beyond silly at this point.



Do you feel this way about EVERYTHING schools take on that isn't purely academic? It's the school taking over your parenting job?

My children are grown. As parents we made raising our children a priority. A very important component was teaching them about their place in the world, the function rules serve in making it possible for lots of people to coexist -- and the kind of rules it's important to understand are never okay to be required. The schools never had a reason to complain about my precious little darlings creating any issues with their classmates or staff. They even managed to apply themselves to their studies. We taught respect for selves and respect for others -- along with empathy and compassion. Foolishly we thought that would get the job done.

Clearly we set them up for a life of pajama wearing (the more revealing the better naturally), inability to comply with rules or be employed. Guess I should inform my eldest's employer and the market her younger sister is working part-time at while still in college. Obviously they need to be informed their seemingly satisfactory employees weren't properly brought up by the schools.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

My children are grown. As parents we made raising our children a priority. A very important component was teaching them about their place in the world, the function rules serve in making it possible for lots of people to coexist -- and the kind of rules it's important to understand are never okay to be required. The schools never had a reason to complain about my precious little darlings creating any issues with their classmates or staff. They even managed to apply themselves to their studies. We taught respect for selves and respect for others -- along with empathy and compassion. Foolishly we thought that would get the job done.

And everyone has the same guidance at home that you provided for your children? They all come to school equally respectful, prepared to learn, etc.?

Had the school had a dress code, would that have ruined your kids? Taught them to be mindless robots complying with any random rule that anyone puts in front of them?

 

[cabanafrau]

Can't wait to hear about how you feel about government and the ways it intrudes in our lives today!

Apparently you'll have to wait all the same. That's not really easily discussed here, as it's against the rules.

 

[Colleen27]

At least you’re consistent!

But are you AS upset about it as a possible undergarment requirement that includes bras?

As upset, no. Because enforcing a facial hair rule doesn't put adult staff in the position of observing and discussing a child's breasts. That does add an additional layer of "ick" to rules pertaining to bras and undergarments, IMO. The teacher who liked to call me out on shirts that were "too revealing" for my cup size was a 50-something man with a reputation for inappropriate comments who made a lot of female students uncomfortable. I, being far less of an "obey authority" type than my mother, would have *serious* issues if it were my daughter in that situation, being essentially "checked out" by a particular teacher day after day to determine which tee shirts were too clingy or tight across the chest.

But as far as the rules themselves, I'd have an issue with facial hair rules too. We don't have those here, or hair color/style rules, unless you're in a private school (which is different because it is voluntary). Our dress code for boys is basically the same "no shoes, no shirt, no service" line that businesses have posted. It is only girls that have to worry about if shirts are too short or tight, straps are wide enough, shorts and skirts are long enough, pants are loose enough, etc. Which is why I tend to view dress codes as a gendered issue.

My DD has been angry about school dress codes since she was about 12. If I ever want to distract her or change the subject, all I have to do is ask her how wide the straps on her sleeveless shirt had to be in junior high, and she will start ranting. My answer is always the same though: "You know what the rules are. Now, you have two choices: accept them or make a proposal to the school board to change them. I'll support you either way." IMO, this is the healthy way to teach that (a) you have to follow the rules but (b) there is always a way to change the rules when they no longer work.

Except when there isn't. I live in a pretty conservative area and the median age on the school board is north of 50, at least, so they're an even more conservative/old-fashioned bunch than the area as a whole. They are NOT known for listening to students and on a couple of recent occasions have essentially mocked student-driven efforts to make changes. The board has defended the dress code as based on "common decency" and the "unavoidable" differences between the sexes that make what women wear a more important issue than what men do. Personally I'd be very uncomfortable teaching my kid that lesson - if you don't like the rules, try to change them... but remember honey that you're just a kid and just a girl so you don't really have the power to change anything, so you may as well just sit down and do what you're told.

 

[cabanafrau]

And everyone has the same guidance at home that you provided for your children? They all come to school equally respectful, prepared to learn, etc.?

Had the school had a dress code, would that have ruined your kids? Taught them to be mindless robots complying with any random rule that anyone puts in front of them?

Because other parents choose to parent differently or neglect their duties as parents altogether means I should let the school take the wheel to shape my children's understanding of compliance and a myriad of other issues? I'll pass, thanks anyway. YMMV.

Did I say the school didn't have a dress code? I believe if you look back you will find that is not the case.

Yep, I slept at the switch so much it was super easy to teach my children to be mindless robots. It's patently obvious that is most definitely true.

 

[Lilsia]

For all of you who feel the girls was at "fault". Do you think this would have been an issue at an all girls school? Nope. It is on the boys that had no respect for the girls who the fault should lie.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Because other parents choose to parent differently or neglect their duties as parents altogether means I should let the school take the wheel to shape my children's understanding of compliance and a myriad of other issues? I'll pass, thanks anyway. YMMV.

Did I say the school didn't have a dress code? I believe if you look back you will find that is not the case.

Yep, I slept at the switch so much it was super easy to teach my children to be mindless robots. It's patently obvious that is most definitely true.

Huh. So the school having a dress code didn't warp your kids. Didn't interfere with your ability as a parent to impart your own ideas to them re: compliance and myriad others issues. That's good to hear.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

For all of you who feel the girls was at "fault". Do you think this would have been an issue at an all girls school? Nope. It is on the boys that had no respect for the girls who the fault should lie.

I don't think the girl was "at fault"... not sure who is saying that. The school handled this horrifically. But as an aside to your other point, the only girls' schools I know of in this area have dress codes. They mention skirt length, no undergarments showing, etc.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

For all of you who feel the girls was at "fault". Do you think this would have been an issue at an all girls school? Nope. It is on the boys that had no respect for the girls who the fault should lie.

Well.. it could still be an issue. TBH I find that line of thinking old-school as if only boys can be distracted by girls, only boys would look at a girls body and make comments about it. Sometimes girls are harder on other girls than they are on boys too. Sometimes girls are attracted to other girls. And so on. In a nutshell this isn't about a co-ed school issue.

Everyone should be taught to have respect for others. It shouldn't just be about "teaching boys to respect girls"..I mean have you heard what girls say sometimes to other girls? It's downright vicious at times.

My sister-in-law had quite the trouble in her school to the point where she moved to an online school. 99% of the comments that she had thrown at her were from other girls about how she was dressed, what boys she went with, etc.

*FWIW I'm not in the "it's her fault" camp just providing a side note here.

 

[Lilsia]

Well.. it could still be an issue. TBH I find that line of thinking old-school as if only boys can be distracted by girls, only boys would look at a girls body and make comments about it. Sometimes girls are harder on other girls than they are on boys too. Sometimes girls are attracted to other girls. And so on. In a nutshell this isn't about a co-ed school issue.

Everyone should be taught to have respect for others. It shouldn't just be about "teaching boys to respect girls"..I mean have you heard what girls say sometimes to other girls? It's downright vicious at times.

My sister-in-law had quite the trouble in her school to the point where she moved to an online school. 99% of the comments that she had thrown at her were from other girls about how she was dressed, what boys she went with, etc.

*FWIW I'm not in the "it's her fault" camp just providing a side note here.

Oh I agree everyone should be nicer to each other. But the issue in this case was the girls was called out, NOT the boys as they should have been.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Oh I agree everyone should be nicer to each other. But the issue in this case was the girls was called out, NOT the boys as they should have been.

I agree but you brought up a generality of if it was at an all-girl school it wouldn't have been an issue. And I don't agree with that viewpoint.

I still would have felt the same if it was girls in the OP that made comments but were never called into the office. The party who made the comments, regardless of gender, should have been dealt with and the consequences applied irrespective of their gender.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I cannot believe anyone old enough to attain the rank of parent wouldn't understand the importance of that concept being instilled by parents -- or the incredible danger that lurks in ceding that authority to another individual or institution.

teaching blind compliance to authority with arbitrary rules---yes I do find that unconscionable. I am rather appalled there are people in favor of that.

Again, I find myself in need of an applauding emoji.

 

[cabanafrau]

Huh. So the school having a dress code didn't warp your kids. Didn't interfere with your ability as a parent to impart your own ideas to them re: compliance and myriad others issues. That's good to hear.

Well it was both good and hard to hear my daughter tell me she understood that underlying all the emphasis being put on how females dress is the core belief that males have important learning and things to do and it's an effort to shunt females to the side, preferably not to be seen or heard. It's been going on for centuries in so many cultures an awful lot of people are completely blind to it. At least I know my daughters aren't among the blind and won't be willing to be marginalized because it seems acceptable to others.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Well it was both good and hard to hear my daughter tell me she understood that underlying all the emphasis being put on how females dress is the core belief that males have important learning and things to do and it's an effort to shunt females to the side, preferably not to be seen or heard. It's been going on for centuries in so many cultures an awful lot of people are completely blind to it. At least I know my daughters aren't among the blind and won't be willing to be marginalized because it seems acceptable to others.

This is the underlying reason for dress codes today; this is what your daughters deduced and you reinforced?

DIS threads often remind me of how different people can be, but this one has honestly been the most eye-opening on that front in a LONG time.

I am happy that my daughter does not intuit such deep meaning from a school dress code in 2018 -- or imagine that it is there to ensure that she is not "seen or heard". Feels TO ME like walking through the world with more bogeymen than actually exist. How upsetting that must be.

But hey -- vive la différence!

 

[cabanafrau]

This is the underlying reason for dress codes today; this is what your daughters deduced and you reinforced?

DIS threads often remind me of how different people can be, but this one has honestly been the most eye-opening on that front in a LONG time.

I am happy that my daughter does not intuit such deep meaning from a school dress code in 2018 -- or imagine that it is there to ensure that she is not "seen or heard". Feels TO ME like walking through the world with more bogeymen than actually exist. How upsetting that must be.

But hey -- vive la différence!

If that's how you care to characterize my daughter's thoughts VIVE LA DIFFERENCE is a serious understatement.

Luckily her destiny of living in pajamas and being unemployed won't be impacted by her crippling view of the world, so it's all good.

BTW, the mud slinging and insults are not a problem if that's what it takes to convince yourself you've made a point.

ETA Incidentally, as to my "reinforcing" her thought, it was shared with me this past weekend when I brought up this thread topic on the board with her. She's a college educated adult working in her profession. I think she's well beyond the need of my "reinforcing" her thoughts.

 

[Disneylovingmomof2]

I feel bad for people who think seeing a nipple outline through a shirt is that big of a deal.
Not to mention we’re talking about kids who have constant access to the internet. Nipples everywhere. You think teenage boys are only using their phones for calls and texting? I think not.
This girl’s decision to go braless should be at the end of the school’s list of worries.
And why is anyone even looking anyway?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

If that's how you care to characterize my daughter's thoughts VIVE LA DIFFERENCE is a serious understatement.

Luckily her destiny of living in pajamas and being unemployed won't be impacted by her crippling view of the world, so it's all good.

BTW, the mud slinging and insults are not a problem if that's what it takes to convince yourself you've made a point.

Yes. That is what you described sounds like to me -- thinking that a dress code is designed as "an effort to shunt females to the side, preferably not to be seen or heard". That genuinely sounds sad to me, and I'm glad that my daughter doesn't see it that way. Feels like the opposite of empowering. But yes -- we obviously see this VERY differently.

 

[soccerdad72]

I don't think they should. I think the school has no business telling boys what to do with their facial hair. It's silly.

I agree, but we knew about the dress code when we registered for the school, so it's not something I bother to fight.

 

[luvsJack]

far enough after my time that I wondered why knee length pant was an issue ANYwhere---I did not gather that you meant sagging. SO, not, that was not the case.

But short shorts, short skirts, backless sundresses with no bra underneath, off the shoulder, jeans with holes strategically cut to show off the pattern on the boxes underneath them, etc---all there when I went to school.
As were tattoos, piercings of various kinds, beards, long hair on both genders, various hair colors, a mo hawk, etc

Lol sorry about that. When I went back and read i realized it sounded like I meant some kind of weird capris.

Long hair was a huge deal when I was in school, well on boys. Mostly they ignored it. Had some with hair to their waist. As long as they didn’t get in other trouble they left them alone.

Hair colors weren’t really ever in dress codes here. Ds ran the rainbow on that one. Dd couldn’t put unnatural colors in her hair because of choir but the school had no issues.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree but you brought up a generality of if it was at an all-girl school it wouldn't have been an issue. And I don't agree with that viewpoint.

I still would have felt the same if it was girls in the OP that made comments but were never called into the office. The party who made the comments, regardless of gender, should have been dealt with and the consequences applied irrespective of their gender.

Actually girls can be much much worse about stuff like this