Here now, and here is the problem

[ShayBells]

I'm still shocked this thread is still here

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[Mkrop]

Could go either way. WDW has a major image problem regarding lines. I was just talking to someone recently who wanted to take her daughter to do the princess thing, who hadn't been there herself since she was a child, and the first thing she said was, "Oh the lines, I can't do the lines. I hate lines." Then I told her about FP+ and character meals and she seemed more open to going. Now how it plays out when they get there, that's another story, but WDW doesn't need to worry about that. They need to get them to book and pay. If they don't come back, eh.

And I have friends who when I talked about FP- and scheduling meals and looking at crowd calendars, started complaing and looking concerned that this would not be fun. I tried to reassure them that the prep ahead of time would make it really fun. I could see this new system overwhelming them and her not going.

And some people dont read their emails, esp one that is about something that is 60 days out. So yeah they might have booked their trip but then WDW sends them an email say at 70 days out telling them what is available at 60 days. I know plenty of people (DH included) who would not touch the email until about 2 weeks out bc they just cant think about it that far ahead. Then they are not going to be happy that there is nothing available to book.

 

[ShayBells]

And I have friends who when I talked about FP- and scheduling meals and looking at crowd calendars, started complaing and looking concerned that this would not be fun. I tried to reassure them that the prep ahead of time would make it really fun. I could see this new system overwhelming them and her not going. And some people dont read their emails, esp one that is about something that is 60 days out. So yeah they might have booked their trip but then WDW sends them an email say at 70 days out telling them what is available at 60 days. I know plenty of people (DH included) who would not touch the email until about 2 weeks out bc they just cant think about it that far ahead. Then they are not going to be happy that there is nothing available to book.

I've heard this before of people telling their friends and the friends say it's too overwhelming. It makes me wonder what it's like to go for the first time with NO info from friends. Especially people who don't research.

Most parks I've been too (Hersey, Kings Dominion, etc.) don't label wait times. So even when you go and wait long you don't time it so it can feel shorter. But seeing a 30, 40 plus wait over a ride as a newbie has to seem outrageous. Even for those short times.

Than to learn FP- or FP+ (especially) has to be confusing. I can see a lot of people booking FP+ and never using them.

I wonder how many walk into TS venues and ask how long the wait is.

Bottom line it's a lot of information to take in and I am just glad I have gone since I was a toddler.

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[maxiesmom]

And I have friends who when I talked about FP- and scheduling meals and looking at crowd calendars, started complaing and looking concerned that this would not be fun. I tried to reassure them that the prep ahead of time would make it really fun. I could see this new system overwhelming them and her not going.

It was over-whelming before the age of ADRs and Fast Passes. My first trip was as an adult, back when Disney had "plusses" you had to figure out on their tickets. Things are not more complicated now, the complications have just changed.

 

[Rosanne]

You just pointed out one of the biggest issues with the new system as though its a perk.
With the current FP- system if you want a FP for TSMM you or someone in your group has to make a commitment to physically go to the park and get the FP. In that case you are only competing with everyone else who is in the park.

With the new system you are competing for that FP not only with everyone in the park but everyone in all the parks, DTD, in their hotels and now we know you are competing with all the AP holders anywhere in the world whether they actually plan to go to WDW or not.

It's not rocket science, FP gets more exclusive. It may be working fine for you now, but how will you feel if FP for all your favorite rides are now selling out 30 days in advance and 1/2 those are people who aren't even in the parks?

Just wanted to let you know that the way you quoted my post made it appear that I wrote those words. I did not. I was quoting another poster. The words you quoted have nothing to do with my experience or my thoughts. You probably did not realize that so I will not take any response personally.

Thanks.

 

[ArwenMarie]

And I have friends who when I talked about FP- and scheduling meals and looking at crowd calendars, started complaing and looking concerned that this would not be fun. I tried to reassure them that the prep ahead of time would make it really fun. I could see this new system overwhelming them and her not going.

And some people dont read their emails, esp one that is about something that is 60 days out. So yeah they might have booked their trip but then WDW sends them an email say at 70 days out telling them what is available at 60 days. I know plenty of people (DH included) who would not touch the email until about 2 weeks out bc they just cant think about it that far ahead. Then they are not going to be happy that there is nothing available to book.

Yeah, I can see that too.

Disney does have a bad rep regarding lines and crowds and waits. I think, just my opinion, Disney will try to promote and market FP plus to first-timers, promising no lines.

But how it turns out for them...who knows. But Disney won't necessarily care at that point.

 

[FlipHipster]

Just wanted to let you know that the way you quoted my post made it appear that I wrote those words. I did not. I was quoting another poster. The words you quoted have nothing to do with my experience or my thoughts. You probably did not realize that so I will not take any response personally.

Thanks.

You are absolutely right I misquoted you and I apologize profusely. May the FP fairy shower you with FP's on your next visit.

 

[Robbi]

It was over-whelming before the age of ADRs and Fast Passes. My first trip was as an adult, back when Disney had "plusses" you had to figure out on their tickets. Things are not more complicated now, the complications have just changed.

This is true, however, you could do that the day you were at a park. Now, if you want to have a dining reservation and if you have must do rides/attractions, you have to reserve these months in advance. How many people with young children or those traveling who have disabilities or kids with disabilities can know 60 days in advance that they will be able to keep those exact plans? I know supposedly changes can be made on the fly in the parks but I have read here where that is not always possible especially during crowded times of the year. Some say then go during less crowded times but that is not possible with school aged children.

 

[Rosanne]

You are absolutely right I misquoted you and I apologize profusely. May the FP fairy shower you with FP's on your next visit.

 

[lugnut33]

Just want to give a thumbs up to Brian Noble's post, that was well thought out.

Side note, if first timers are so valuable then why not raise the price of APs and Florida tickets so high you keep them from coming. And why does Disneyland do so well with a large AP base?

I think it's ridiculous to think repeat visitors aren't wanted. Remember, on busy days resort guests only makes up about 25% of the crowd at the parks.

 

[Colleen27]

Side note, if first timers are so valuable then why not raise the price of APs and Florida tickets so high you keep them from coming. And why does Disneyland do so well with a large AP base?

I think it's ridiculous to think repeat visitors aren't wanted. Remember, on busy days resort guests only makes up about 25% of the crowd at the parks.

You don't think maybe they're working on that as well? The elimination of child pricing for APs sure seems like a step in that direction...

Disneyland is an entirely different animal. It isn't a destination in the sense that WDW is - that is, for most people it doesn't have enough to offer in and of itself to fill a vacation. And the flip side of that coin is that it isn't so immense that it cannot be appreciated in a day or a weekend. That makes a different approach to marketing absolutely essential. Also, the overhead and operations issues at DLR are very different from WDW; DLR doesn't support fleets of buses and boats, dozens of hotels, hundreds of restaurants, etc. Even when you account for the difference in attendance figures it is probable that WDW needs much higher per-guest spending levels just to break even than DLR does.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Just want to give a thumbs up to Brian Noble's post, that was well thought out.

Side note, if first timers are so valuable then why not raise the price of APs and Florida tickets so high you keep them from coming. And why does Disneyland do so well with a large AP base?

I think it's ridiculous to think repeat visitors aren't wanted. Remember, on busy days resort guests only makes up about 25% of the crowd at the parks.

We would need to know how much of WDW's profit comes from which type of customer to know which ones are most valuable to them.

I only look at what they are doing (not building new attractions, overloading on princesses, building prebooking in FP+) and then work backward from there to come to the conclusion that the frequent guest isn't the target. If there turns out to be an onsite advantage for FP+, that would be another indicator that onsite stays are more valuable than offsite visits.

On the flip side though, I agree, they must need the frequent customer as well. I'll assume that because if they didn't, they would have turned the whole place into an all-inclusive by now The question for them is finding the right balance.

 

[Brian Noble]

And why does Disneyland do so well with a large AP base?

Disneyland *significantly* jacked up AP prices in advance of Cars Land's opening, much higher than a proportional increase compared to day tickets, IIRC. There aren't many interpretations of that other than they were trying to "thin the herd." They also stopped selling 6-day and longer park hoppers. Now, the longest hopper you can buy is 5 days. Again: hard to call that anything but culling the longer-stay guests in favor of shorter-stay ones.

 

[ShannonMB]

The easiest explanation - the rides are placed into tiers and you can only choose a certain amount from each tier.

The photo I saw was at Epcot - Soarin' and Test Track were in the same tier and you could only choose 1 FP+, so you couldn't get a FP for both rides.

http://thedisneyblog.com/2013/11/06/fastpass-and-the-tiered-fastpass-system/

This explains it well. Right now as far as I know there is only tiered fastpasses at Hollywood Studious and Epcot. That could change at any time though. I hope that helps a little.

Ouch! Thanks for the info, it helps a lot. I have been "reserving judgement". Now I'm

 

[magicbob]

Ouch! Thanks for the info, it helps a lot. I have been "reserving judgement". Now I'm

Welcome to the club, Shannon!

Unfortunately, you're now among rather infamous company (or as the three amigos said IN-famous).

FP+ "haters" are persona non grata!

But I predict that, eventually, tiers will be the straw that breaks the camels back for many people who have been taking the "wait and see" stance.

 

[clsteve]

Disneyland *significantly* jacked up AP prices in advance of Cars Land's opening, much higher than a proportional increase compared to day tickets, IIRC. There aren't many interpretations of that other than they were trying to "thin the herd." They also stopped selling 6-day and longer park hoppers. Now, the longest hopper you can buy is 5 days. Again: hard to call that anything but culling the longer-stay guests in favor of shorter-stay ones.

A very interesting data point in all of this.

 

[Mkrop]

It was over-whelming before the age of ADRs and Fast Passes. My first trip was as an adult, back when Disney had "plusses" you had to figure out on their tickets. Things are not more complicated now, the complications have just changed.

I have been going since 1987. I dont remember these E ticket books people talk about, but definitely before FP-. We went early to the park, rode as much as possible, and then stood in ridiculously long lines for 2 hours in blazing FL sun...how was that complicated???

And most people think that most people walk into WDW thinking it is just like any amusement park they have been to before, most of them dont need a strategy like WDW does.

The friend I mentioned before went to Hershey Park, never picked up a map, wandered around for awhile, could not find the kiddie rides, didnt think her DS was old enough for coasters so she kept telling him no. They wound up leaving going back to the resort and having a blast. I could not believe she did not grab a MAP! I even said why didnt you text me, I know HP as well as WDW. She did not want that kind of outing...she wanted to wander around and have the rides just be there that were age appropriate.

 

[Postal68]

Looks like everyone who predicted this happening was right.

Yeah, but none of the "know it all's" would listen to us.

FP+ is going to be the ruin of an enjoyable vacation at WDW unless you happen to get lucky and be there with low low crowds.

 

[bcrook]

Disneyland *significantly* jacked up AP prices in advance of Cars Land's opening, much higher than a proportional increase compared to day tickets, IIRC. There aren't many interpretations of that other than they were trying to "thin the herd." They also stopped selling 6-day and longer park hoppers. Now, the longest hopper you can buy is 5 days. Again: hard to call that anything but culling the longer-stay guests in favor of shorter-stay ones.

Well now.. That is fascinating.

 

[OregonBob]

All of this is scaring me a bit. Hope my vacation won’t be this bad.