Here is why Universal is a better value than Disney (get those flames ready!)

[ssuro11]

Additionally, if there was no fastpass, it's not like FP users would stop riding. They'd get in line, and they'd still be in line ahead of you. The only difference is now everyone is spending all their time in line instead of off doing other things.

.... Disney has said on the record that their own research shows this to be true.

You just made my point for me. If everyone stood in one line, would it not move faster at 100% standby and prevent one person from standing in two lines(one virtual, one standby)? Do you have the Disney research link that shows that lines are shorter. I know math was not my strong suit in college but my simple math tells me Fastpass makes the standby line way longer than it should be.

 

[nytimez]

You just made my point for me. If everyone stood in one line, would it not move faster at 100% standby and prevent one person from standing in two lines(one virtual, one standby)? Do you have the Disney research link that shows that lines are shorter. I know math was not my strong suit in college but my simple math tells me Fastpass makes the standby line way longer than it should be.

Nope.

From "Lose Some Wait: How to make the most of Disney's Fastpass program"

With Fastpass ticket holders cutting to the heads of the lines, one would assume the standby queues would be hopelessly longer. But Stafford, one of the developers of Disney's virtual line system, claims the opposite is true. "Through a self-selection process, Fastpass has reduced most standby lines," he says. "At peak times, our research shows the lines aren't any longer than before Fastpass."​

 

[schumigirl]

I dislike rates that are not all inclusive. Yeah not everyone brings a car, not everyone wants a fridge or microwave... but when you have a nice hotel like that I just feel like it should come with all of those things as well as parking and internet.

We try and keep our food budget down by eating breakfast and either lunch or dinner in the room- but at $15 a piece for microwave and fridge per day it saves me nothing. Also, when we travel with our dogs we require a fridge and microwave (they're elderly and have meds and are picky eaters ) so we pay $30 extra bucks a day to bring them.

Anyways I hate rates that are not all inclusive. If they would up the fees $5 for the masses they could skip nickel and diming others and provide their guests with a more convenient stay. Thats my rant for the day thanks for listening

So, forgive me if Im reading this wrong. Prices should go up to reflect those that want a microwave and a fridge and parking included??

We never eat anything in the room, so would never desire a microwave. If I want or need a fridge I would book one, I know this in advance.

We choose a hotel that we know charges extra for parking. I know this in advance so how come you think that is nickel and diming me?

Also just out of natural curiosity........Why the microwave for a dog??

 

[keishashadow]

You're getting it wrong -- the spot was never "held" for you. It's not like a table in a restaurant. It's not sitting empty, waiting for you to arrive.

Also, I don't get why Universal "got it right" by having a separate car for Express Pass. Surely, by your logic, those cars would still be better off going to non-Express Pass users?

Actually, Badge is getting it rightimo those who don't follow the stated return time on FPs will never 'get it' as it doesn't benefit them to do so...as in all things disney as long as the practice is allowed to continue, then guests will go for ithuman nature i suppose

Actually a spot/return time is held via a FP for a specific period of time for the specific period of FPs that were issued. It factors in moving through the FP line 'fast' for X number of people that secured the FP. If double or triple show up for any specific FP window that line will have period of time has a longer wait time vs the standby, especially if you're bringing up the rear.

 

[damo]

Actually, Badge is getting it rightimo those who don't follow the stated return time on FPs will never 'get it' as it doesn't benefit them to do so...as in all things disney as long as the practice is allowed to continue, then guests will go for ithuman nature i suppose

Actually a spot/return time is held via a FP for a specific period of time for the specific period of FPs that were issued. It factors in moving through the FP line 'fast' for X number of people that secured the FP. If double or triple show up for any specific FP window that line will have period of time has a longer wait time vs the standby, especially if you're bringing up the rear.

But the standby line will be that much faster because those people weren't in the fastpass line earlier. Their spots were filled by standby allowing the standby line to be faster than it would have been if people had stuck to their alloted fastpass time. Whether the fastpass people are now or later shouldn't matter.

 

[Badge]

Actually, Badge is getting it rightimo those who don't follow the stated return time on FPs will never 'get it' as it doesn't benefit them to do so...as in all things disney as long as the practice is allowed to continue, then guests will go for ithuman nature i suppose

Actually a spot/return time is held via a FP for a specific period of time for the specific period of FPs that were issued. It factors in moving through the FP line 'fast' for X number of people that secured the FP. If double or triple show up for any specific FP window that line will have period of time has a longer wait time vs the standby, especially if you're bringing up the rear.

I am glad somebody gets it! Sure research may show that lines are shorter, and they very well might be and sure the Fastpass system is great when you use it, but it is flawed. Research would show that the Standby line gets a lot longer than intended when guests use expired fastpasses. If 1000 people can ride in an hour and they give out 100 Fastpasses but only 50 people return, they have to give those 50 spots that were being "saved" to standby guests. The "saved" spots are gone, somebody else filled them and because somebody else used them, the Fastpass should not be valid. However, becuase of the flaw in the system, when those 50 people come to the ride an hour later, the ride now has 150 Fastpass people, so the standby line now has to wait longer becuase 50 extra people know get to go in front of them that was never taken into account when displaying the wait time. However, I have seen a lot more than 50 people get into a Fastpass line at once and I am sure most of them had expired tickets. I don't understand why this is so hard for people to figure out. I enjoy using the system, I think it is great...but until Disney fixes the flaw and stops letting people get into the line with expired Fastpasses, there will continue to be problem.

But the standby line will be that much faster because those people weren't in the fastpass line earlier. Their spots were filled by standby allowing the standby line to be faster than it would have been if people had stuck to their alloted fastpass time. Whether the fastpass people are now or later shouldn't matter.

True to a point. While the guests in the Standby line at 11am got lucky because not so many Fastpass people returned, its the people that get into the line at 6pm that are affected when 50-100 people with expired 11am Fastpasses get into the line. Guests in Standby have to wait LONGER line becuase people waited to use their Fastpasses.

 

[damo]

True to a point. While the guests in the Standby line at 11am got lucky because not so many Fastpass people returned, its the people that get into the line at 6pm that are affected when 50-100 people with expired 11am Fastpasses get into the line. Guests in Standby have to wait LONGER line becuase people waited to use their Fastpasses.

No. They will not have to wait longer. The standby line will still be that much shorter because of the earlier surge. No matter what time it happened, the line went faster. That time effect will be in effect it for the entire day.

Think of the day of people entering the ride as one long line. If I take 50 people from the first third of the line and add them into the last third of the line, it will not change the wait for the people at the end of the line. You are still adding them in there. It doesn't matter when.

Another way to think of it: Everyone with a fastpass plus everyone in standby (for the entire day) is in one line. Take out the people who miss their fastpass appointment. Now everyone moves up. Add them back in later. Now everyone behind them moves back to where they were originally. It doesn't affect anything for those people at the end of the line.

 

[TheRealDrDisney]

I've often thought it would be nice if there were a central location (or 2) at each park where we could obtain fast passes rather than going to the attraction. Lots of machines (obviously) would be needed, and the rule of one per attraction until the time window starts would still apply, but overall I think that would be a great convenience!

The wait times/return times could all be posted in the one spot as well.

 

[nytimez]

Actually, Badge is getting it rightimo those who don't follow the stated return time on FPs will never 'get it' as it doesn't benefit them to do so...as in all things disney as long as the practice is allowed to continue, then guests will go for ithuman nature i suppose

Actually a spot/return time is held via a FP for a specific period of time for the specific period of FPs that were issued. It factors in moving through the FP line 'fast' for X number of people that secured the FP. If double or triple show up for any specific FP window that line will have period of time has a longer wait time vs the standby, especially if you're bringing up the rear.

Logic fail.

Disney isn't clueless -- they know how and when people will return, how many will return outside the FP window (and it's not as much as you think) and how many will never return at all.

All these things are taken into consideration with FP distribution.

And, once again, your spot is not being "held." When you are not there during your FP window, the line continues. People still board the ride. One more person boards now in return for you boarding later.

This is why the being early is a problem (and therefore not allowed), but being late is not (and therefore not enforced).

 

[Victoria3]

I enjoy using the system, I think it is great...but until Disney fixes the flaw and stops letting people get into the line with expired Fastpasses, there will continue to be problem.

Obviously it's not a problem since Disney allows it.

You don't have to use your FP late but don't get mad at people who choose to do so. I will continue to do so as long as Disney allows it.

 

[the Dark Marauder]

Ooh Pear Cider. It doesn't sound as good as Butterbeer, but still sounds good!

Pear cider is really good. I had it the last time I was at the Three Broomsticks.

 

[keishashadow]

But the standby line will be that much faster because those people weren't in the fastpass line earlier. Their spots were filled by standby allowing the standby line to be faster than it would have been if people had stuck to their alloted fastpass time. Whether the fastpass people are now or later shouldn't matter.

i have no dog in the standby line fight. i visit the parks enough during peak periods to decide that my type A personality cannot deal with them, however i do get lathered up when the standby line is visibly shorter vs the FP return line.

Obviously it's not a problem since Disney allows it.

You don't have to use your FP late but don't get mad at people who choose to do so. I will continue to do so as long as Disney allows it.

don't blame you, many agree 100% & jump on that train

the FP system is touted heavily as a free perc/incentive to visit their parks. Once you're there, apparently they could care less re a person's wait time in said FP lane. If the majority are using FP @ will and attendance is still good, why bother with what is a good thing for them?

all bets are off if/when any of the copywritten FP systems are initiated in the future - those that are tied into level of resort/$ spent onsite/affiliations - AP/DVC/or even a pay per system.

 

[damo]

i have no dog in the standby line fight. i visit the parks enough during peak periods to decide that my type A personality cannot deal with them, however i do get lathered up when the standby line is visibly shorter vs the FP return line.

Why would people go in the FP line if the standby line is visibly shorter? The standby line is now shorter since that is probably who took the place of those people who delayed their fastpasses in the first place. It is just a shift in line.

Disney should be maintaining their lines. Obviously if people didn't show up for their fastpasses, the standby line went faster. So, slow down the standby line if the fastpass line builds up.

http://wdwuntangled.com/latefastpassesdontmatter.php

 

[suemom2kay]

You just made my point for me. If everyone stood in one line, would it not move faster at 100% standby and prevent one person from standing in two lines(one virtual, one standby)?

But NO ONE is standing in 2 lines. If I get a FP for Splash and get in Line for BTMRR, I am standing in line for BTMRR. I have deferred my space in the line for Splash until later. Often times much later.

Try it. Get a FP for TSM. It has a return time of 10:00 a.m. and it is currently 9:00 a.m. Now stand at the entrance of the Standby line and watch all the people go by until it your return time comes up. Do you see your virtual self standing in line anywhere? Or are you just getting bored watching all those people go by as you've deferred your space in line.

O.k. Now it is 10:00 - go get in the FP return line. NOW you are in line. Just one line.

 

[suemom2kay]

Why would people go in the FP line if the standby line is visibly shorter? The standby line is now shorter since that is probably who took the place of those people who delayed their fastpasses in the first place. It is just a shift in line.

Cause it says FAST pass!

 

[keishashadow]

Why would people go in the FP line if the standby line is visibly shorter? The standby line is now shorter since that is probably who took the place of those people who delayed their fastpasses in the first place. It is just a shift in line.

Disney should be maintaining their lines. Obviously if people didn't show up for their fastpasses, the standby line went faster. So, slow down the standby line if the fastpass line builds up.

http://wdwuntangled.com/latefastpassesdontmatter.php

a)because they have a FPand assume the term fast is valid

b) you can't necessarily tell how long a disney attraction line is from 'the street view'. Sometimes the ropes are up inside and others it's a straight walk-thru for FP holders

 

[tinydancer09]

So, forgive me if Im reading this wrong. Prices should go up to reflect those that want a microwave and a fridge and parking included??

We never eat anything in the room, so would never desire a microwave. If I want or need a fridge I would book one, I know this in advance.

We choose a hotel that we know charges extra for parking. I know this in advance so how come you think that is nickel and diming me?

Also just out of natural curiosity........Why the microwave for a dog??

Shes cold and can no longer control her temperature on her own so we just stick her in there for a few.... Im just kiddding.

But she is old and can no longer chew her food. Wet food makes her sick if she eats nothing but it so we have to mix her normal dog food with wetfood and water. If we let it sit and soak it takes a while and she doesn't eat all of it. If we warm it the soaking process is accelerated and she eats all of her food. I know it's a bit ridiculous but she has a lot of health problems already... we just make her feel as comfortable and possible. Also to add to this, since she is so old we're worried to change her food on her such as buying the soft bites and such because as a younger dog she wouldnt take well to diet change.. so as an older dog it worries us.

And yes you're hearing me right. As I said before I cannot stand rates that are not all inclusive in the price. If you raise the rate even the slightest bit for all everyone has the added benefit of having these amenities even if you don't think you will need it. I know it sound silly to most people but thats just how my property management brain works.

 

[HayGan]

Personally I find the fastpass argment amusing. IMHO, on of the biggest flaws in the argument that returns beyond the window time are slowing down the lines are assuming that a majority of those using FPs know that you can return at a time later than what is listed. In fact, very few of the people using FPs know that you can return beyond that window. A vast majority of those that travel to WDW don't read these boards or the many others out there or do much if any research at all before their vacation. They are the ones you will see waiting at the entrance of a ride for their FP to start or planning their day around their FP times. I see so many people throw away FPs because they "missed" their time or talking about how they have to be back before their FP time ends. Sometimes depending on their demeanor I will enlighten them but often not There are so many FPs that go unused on a daily basis that I find it hard to believe that in any circustance (other than EVERY FP holder coming to ride at the same time) that The use of FPs has ANY impact on wait times.

 

[ToyStory]

Personally I find the fastpass argment amusing. IMHO, on of the biggest flaws in the argument that returns beyond the window time are slowing down the lines are assuming that a majority of those using FPs know that you can return at a time later than what is listed. In fact, very few of the people using FPs know that you can return beyond that window. A vast majority of those that travel to WDW don't read these boards or the many others out there or do much if any research at all before their vacation. They are the ones you will see waiting at the entrance of a ride for their FP to start or planning their day around their FP times. I see so many people throw away FPs because they "missed" their time or talking about how they have to be back before their FP time ends. Sometimes depending on their demeanor I will enlighten them but often not There are so many FPs that go unused on a daily basis that I find it hard to believe that in any circustance (other than EVERY FP holder coming to ride at the same time) that The use of FPs has ANY impact on wait times.

One time we had Fast Passes for Space Mountain, however it broke down and we had to leave for the airport. I found a family to give the Fast passes to but they wouldn't take them since the time was expired. by an hour. I explained to them since it was down once the ride open you could use them. They looked at me with disbelief.

In the days when we had to use child swap, I always tried to find a family to go on with me to spread the pixie dust. This man was so happy one time that I brought his son on with me at Space Mountain. He didn't want to ride and the stand by line was well over an hour. He waited with my husband and my younger son while I rode on Space Mountain with his son, who was 12years old.

 

[keishashadow]

it's not unusual to see the lines (FP or not) backed up near the end of the day, especially for TSM on a fantasmic night. I've read theories here that the CMs are just employing the staging thing they do wherein the outside line appears longer to dissuade those from entering the lines. Perhaps, I just know that based upon my personal experience, the FP return lines are moving more slowly for the trips i take within same time period every year. Another's experience may be completely different.

FYI, these boards do have a ripple effect far larger than many realize. I'm told disney monitors message boards. Discussion of unrestricted FP return times (apparently another of those disney "best kept secrets" - why not spread the word to everybody) could soon go the way of several excellent producing rental car codes being posted here...several phone calls made later to WDW asking if it's okay to utilize, combined w/mentions on other budget boards, various blogs, etc & poof...the deal vanishes.