Help!

[kdm31091]

Did I do the right thing?

Last week, we had to hand in book reports. I had read my book completely a week in advance. However, I was tired and distracted with other things (my sister was in the hospital) when writing the report, and my brain flagged when trying to write a specific summary of each chapter. So, I logged onto Sparknotes.com, and used their online book notes, IN CONJUNCTION with the book right in front of me, and wrote my report. I spent 4 hours on the darned thing, from 2:30-6:30 pm approximately.

Considering I'd put all that work in, I was shocked a few days later when my teacher says he's giving me a zero for plagarism from the sparknotes. NO, I didn't directly copy, he claims "vocabulary" was used from the Sparknotes. Also, he had told us not to use them - but I interpreted it as "don't use them ENTIRELY or BY THEMSELVES".

Well, me, in my usual "fight for it" mood, told my mom, who emailed him and scheduled a meeting for Friday. Now I'm terrified that I'm going to be yelled at, proven wrong, and keep the zero. He already shot down my point of being embarrassed in front of the class by saying "Uh, no, it was behind my desk" to my mom, making me look crazy

Now I'm worried that my argument (I read the book fully; did not copy the sparknotes; used them to make my points more clear) will never hold up, that this is hopeless, and I'm still getting a zero. I should've just kept my mouth shut and took the zero.

Did I do the right thing? Should I have just kept quiet?

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

Don't keep quiet. You have a right to defend yourself if you believe you are right. I had a college prof do this to me right before graduation. I had to go before a committee. His proof was 3 half sentences that I didn't quote and correctly attribute (20 pg paper). The panel (of professors) told him basically to shut up. If I had taken his word and not defended myself I would have failed and not graduated with my class!! Good luck with everything.

 

[kdm31091]

What irks me is that probably 95% of the 10th grade used them, and just because they "were smart enough to hide it better" or something, they all got 40/40 and I get 0/40.

 

[1Prince2Princesses]

I would have a talk with your mom before the conference. Let her know that your issue is not with the way you were treated about the situation, just that you feel like you didn't do anything wrong by using the notes in addition to the book. If she goes in to the conference screaming and yelling at your teacher, nothing will be accomplished.

Is there any way you can handle this situation yourself before the conference? Maybe after having a long weekend to cool down about it, your teacher will change his mind about your use of the notes if you approach him in an adult-like way and explain your situation again.

As long as you are prepared to take the zero, then there is no harm in trying to stick up for yourself. If you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then say so, and if you still don't get the credit, then at least you tried. Good luck!

 

[kdm31091]

I would have a talk with your mom before the conference. Let her know that your issue is not with the way you were treated about the situation, just that you feel like you didn't do anything wrong by using the notes in addition to the book. If she goes in to the conference screaming and yelling at your teacher, nothing will be accomplished.

Is there any way you can handle this situation yourself before the conference? Maybe after having a long weekend to cool down about it, your teacher will change his mind about your use of the notes if you approach him in an adult-like way and explain your situation again.

As long as you are prepared to take the zero, then there is no harm in trying to stick up for yourself. If you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then say so, and if you still don't get the credit, then at least you tried. Good luck!

Well, I can talk to my mom no problem. Teacher is a bit tougher, because honestly, by the looks of his emails, he doesn't' seem to want to budge about this and the conference will probably very well just waste everybody's time.

I just am so MAD that I could get a 0 when other people who did the SAME EXACT THING got 40/40. Considering he said it's graded on "effort" and I spent 4 hours on it, I should at LEAST get half credit!

And also, since he claims plagiarism, would he be happier if I had written: SPARKNOTES USED TO HELP!! on the bottom? I don't think so. Some teachers just make me mad.

By the way, in you guys' minds' (I know, terrible grammar), did I do anything wrong, sort-of did something wrong, or have a right to stick up for myself? He did warn against using book notes/sparknotes but he said "don't read those INSTEAD of the book". Since technically I didn't do that, I don't see the offense.

 

[Serena]

From what you're saying, I don't see that you did anything wrong. How is that different from any other resource, except he said not to use them.
As far as vocabulary, how can he claim that can be plagarized? Unless you used entire phrases he recognized.

I don't get it, and as a mom, I'd be fighting this too. Make sure to be calm and reasonable though, no one will hear you if you aren't. Good luck

 

[MushyMushy]

How much "vocabulary" did you use?

I have to say that you need to be really careful when you use things like Sparknotes and other summary sites. When I did my student teaching, I was grading a paper that obviously had something odd about it, so I went to Sparknotes and lo and behold the student had used that site. I could tell by the way she phrased some things and used some of the same words.

I hate to say this, but if you used anything from that site without crediting it, that is plagiarism. Of course, I'd have to see the paper to be sure, but you need to make sure you didn't use anything from the site whatsoever.

 

[Barb D]

"Dear Mr. Smith,

Thank you for being willing to meet with my mother about my book report. Before you meet, I want to clarify what happened.

I had read my book completely a week in advance. However, I was tired and distracted with other things (my sister was in the hospital) when writing the report, and my brain flagged when trying to write a specific summary of each chapter. So, I logged onto Sparknotes.com, and used their online book notes, IN CONJUNCTION with the book right in front of me, and wrote my report. I spent approximately 4 hours working on it.

When you told us not to use Sparknotes, I understood you to mean, "Don't read those INSTEAD of the book." I read the book fully. I did not copy the Sparknotes, but I admit that I did use them to make my points more clear.

Again, thank you for meeting with my mom and considering giving me some credit for the book report.

Sincerely,
kdm31091"

 

[1Prince2Princesses]

"Dear Mr. Smith,

Thank you for being willing to meet with my mother about my book report. Before you meet, I want to clarify what happened.

I had read my book completely a week in advance. However, I was tired and distracted with other things (my sister was in the hospital) when writing the report, and my brain flagged when trying to write a specific summary of each chapter. So, I logged onto Sparknotes.com, and used their online book notes, IN CONJUNCTION with the book right in front of me, and wrote my report. I spent approximately 4 hours working on it.

When you told us not to use Sparknotes, I understood you to mean, "Don't read those INSTEAD of the book." I read the book fully. I did not copy the Sparknotes, but I admit that I did use them to make my points more clear.

Again, thank you for meeting with my mom and considering giving me some credit for the book report.

Sincerely,
kdm31091"

I think this is a great letter. Send it to your teacher. If your understanding was that you were not to read the notes instead of the book, then you did nothing wrong in my opinion.

Some teachers are just sticklers for rules. If it was obvious to him that you used the notes, he may not budge on his decision. I personally think it's pretty crappy, but ultimately it is his decision. Maybe he'll compromise and give you half credit? Not a great grade, but anything is better than a zero!

 

[1Prince2Princesses]

Let us know later what he decides! And either way, keep your chin up. You know you read the book.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

I hate to say this, but if you used anything from that site without crediting it, that is plagiarism. Of course, I'd have to see the paper to be sure, but you need to make sure you didn't use anything from the site whatsoever.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Sorry, but if he told you not to use them and you did, I think you should take the 0.

 

[Feralpeg]

As a high school English teacher, I will say that you definitely have a problem. I would not accept something that closely resembles the information presented in Spark Notes. I encourage my students to use Spark Notes to help them understand the works, but all information turned in must be their own thoughts and in their own words. Of course, I've not seen your paper. My suggestion would be for you to explain the situation to your teacher. Tell him that you didn't really understand the fine line between using Spark Notes to gather information for your interpretation and plagiarism. Offer to redo the paper.

Good luck!

 

[MushyMushy]

I think this is a great letter. Send it to your teacher. If your understanding was that you were not to read the notes instead of the book, then you did nothing wrong in my opinion.

Some teachers are just sticklers for rules. If it was obvious to him that you used the notes, he may not budge on his decision. I personally think it's pretty crappy, but ultimately it is his decision. Maybe he'll compromise and give you half credit? Not a great grade, but anything is better than a zero!

It's better to learn this now than to find out in college where, not only will she get a zero for a grade, but expelled from school altogether.

Plagiarism is a very serious accusation. If a teacher says NOT to use the notes, he probably meant NOT to use the notes. Not, read the book and use the notes, but NOT to use the notes. I don't see the wiggle room here.

 

[lesroi]

It's better to learn this now than to find out in college where, not only will she get a zero for a grade, but expelled from school altogether.

Plagiarism is a very serious accusation. If a teacher says NOT to use the notes, he probably meant NOT to use the notes. Not, read the book and use the notes, but NOT to use the notes. I don't see the wiggle room here.

I agree. If a teacher says "don't", then you just don't! I don't see wiggle room either and were I the teacher, I would be upset that you did the very opposite of what I told you to do. If the use of Sparknotes ticks your teacher off, why would you go and use them? If you actually read the book, how could you not spend 4 hours writing about the book?
This is nothing compared to what some college professors do. I would rather take this lump (and LESSON LEARNED) now than in college.
I think we are likely not getting the whole story here either, but as told, I think your teacher is in the right. It is called "following instructions."

Tracy

 

[Hannathy]

Just like in life it is the Teacher's kingdom the teacher's rules, whether it is right or not. He said don't use them, you broke the rule and did and he caught you end of story. While I think some teachers have crazy rules part of growing up is learning to deal with them. My DD's best friend got a zero on an A paper in English, teacher graded it- it was an A then gave her a zero because she didn't type it the way she was told to in the rubric! Crazy, yes, but when she told her Mom her Mom said well next time I guess you'll follow the instructions.

Next time if you have a problem go to the teacher first, he may have given you an extra day. I would apologize, tell him the situation and ask if you could do another book and report for extra credit. Life often isn't fair unfortunately. Sorry.

 

[kdm31091]

Well, I understand the rules and how plagarism is serious but the thing is, I did not plagarize. My mom, sister and friend all compared my report to the Sparknotes. They noted a few hints of me using the same word choice but NO DIRECT PLAGARISM; therefore I want to fight for credit.

I'm going to pass the class even if I get a 0 but that's not the point.

 

[kdm31091]

From what you're saying, I don't see that you did anything wrong. How is that different from any other resource, except he said not to use them.
As far as vocabulary, how can he claim that can be plagarized? Unless you used entire phrases he recognized.

I don't get it, and as a mom, I'd be fighting this too. Make sure to be calm and reasonable though, no one will hear you if you aren't. Good luck

There were no entire phrases. He had circled certain words and claimed I couldn't have done them on my own. He circled words like "delude" and a phrase "the book becomes quite gripping at this point". ***? He thinks I couldn't have written that? My teacher is a butthole.

 

[mickeyboat]

Here's my opinion, and it might seem harsh, BUT, your teacher told you not to use the Spark Notes, and you did. You got caught, you deserve a 0. It doesn't matter that everyone else used them, the rule is the rule, you broke it, you have to suffer the consequences.

That being said, I think you have an opportunity to mitigate the consequences. Meet with the teacher, tell the truth about how you used the notes, and ask if you can re-write the paper. Is it possible to re-write the paper using a different theory or premise? It might be too late, but I would still give it a shot.

Finally, make sure you and your mother are on the same page on this. She needs to have all the information, so she doesn't go into the meeting, guns blazing about how you have been mis-treated, and then feel silly when she hears the truth. I might also suggest you leave your mother out of this all-together, and handle it on your own, if you feel comfortable about it.

Good luck.

Denae

 

[kdm31091]

I agree. If a teacher says "don't", then you just don't! I don't see wiggle room either and were I the teacher, I would be upset that you did the very opposite of what I told you to do. If the use of Sparknotes ticks your teacher off, why would you go and use them? If you actually read the book, how could you not spend 4 hours writing about the book?
This is nothing compared to what some college professors do. I would rather take this lump (and LESSON LEARNED) now than in college.
I think we are likely not getting the whole story here either, but as told, I think your teacher is in the right. It is called "following instructions."

Tracy

He said don't read the Sparknotes solely, on their own. He never said "use them to help". He said don't use them on their own. I didn't do the opposite of anything.

I honestly read the book and DID spend 4 hours writing the report, did you misread? I spent 4 hours on it. If I were just copying Sparknotes, it would not have taken that long!

Following instructions is one thing, but my report includes my own analysis of each chapter which IMO is more important than summary (the summary was a little more lifted from Sparknotes), so shouldn't I still get some credit?

 

[MushyMushy]

Well, I understand the rules and how plagarism is serious but the thing is, I did not plagarize. My mom, sister and friend all compared my report to the Sparknotes. They noted a few hints of me using the same word choice but NO DIRECT PLAGARISM; therefore I want to fight for credit.

I'm going to pass the class even if I get a 0 but that's not the point.

Plagiarism doesn't have to be direct. There are a few things a teacher looks for, not just a few words here and there. You could have inadvertently followed the format of the summary in Sparks notes as well. If your own family found a "few hints," then it's plagiarism, plain and simple. Plagiarism is not only a theft of direct words and phrases but a theft of ideas as well.