Help with son who spends more than he makes

[Allison]

He is a man. You are enabling him by taking care of his problems. Stop being the safety net and let him clean up the mess. It is the only way he is going to learn. What you are doing isn't working.

 

[Jake&IzzyLand]

Jake, we did print a spreadsheet for him and also we want him to track daily expenses so he can see where his money is piddled away. Our financial advisor said he would talk with him and we just need to figure a time to do that. It is what you say about consequences that we are having a tough time with. We need to tighten the screws somehow but I don't know exactly what consequences are for a 21 year old.

The consequences would be having to move out. He just may have to make some mistakes in order to learn.

There is also the military. The military can take those struggling to find their way or themselves and give them the discipline and direction needed to become great people. I wouldn't call that a consequence though, more like an opportunity that may have not been considered yet.

 

[tvguy]

Part of it is up bringing, but part of it is just the mindset a lot of under 30 year olds have.
DS managed to save $10,000 when he finished college and still living at home. He has been living with his girlfriend (soon to be wife) for 3 years, so no clue what he has in the bank now. He always says he has no money, and will never own a home. Last year he had me help him with his taxes......he made $1,500 less than I did last year. Since then, he discovered the condo he and his girlfriend are paying $850 rent a month for, could be purchased with a $5,000 down payment and a payment of $475 including taxes and insurance. So he has plenty of money.

 

[ronandannette]

So here's the thing. The letters come saying his bill is overdue but he won't even open them. Totally ignores them. I feel compelled to pay them because how will he ever get an apartment or car or whatever on his own someday if things go to collection? Aside from turning off his phone I'm not sure what else I can do to compel him to be better with his money. Also just to give you an idea, the bill we know about is from Game Stop and it has compiled with late charges to be about $400. So we're not talking about thousands of dollars. He probably has some sort of PayPal balance but I have no idea because that is all online stuff. Thankfully he has no checks so he can't write anything. I keep his credit card in a safe and to be honest I'm the one who uses it and pays it so he can establish some credit. I only give it to him on very very rare occasions-- A while ago (a year or more) he used to be in the negative in his bank account because he allowed himself the capability to overdraw (banks love him) but I don't think he is doing that now which is a good thing. He is 21 and not all that mature but is a totally sweet person, helpful and in every other way a great kid. No drugs or anything like that and his friends are great.

The degree to which you are interfering and enabling this situation is extreme. Opening his mail and using his credit card to establish a false appearance of credit-worthiness? Is that even legal? And do you hear yourself referring to a 21 y.o. man as a "great kid"? What were you and your DH doing at 21? Ask yourself what your parents would have done with/to you if you'd been like your son.

 

[Sadie22]

Is the young man doing enough work around the house to justify the room and house privileges at below-market rent and whatever other services you are providing? Is he doing heavy cleaning, buying groceries, helping with cooking and cleanup, maintaining his own room and bathroom, doing his own laundry, helping with yard work and home maintenance?

Is he making enough money to manage this rent and other required bills?

We've had a family cell phone plan for many years. One child is still on it, but he pays more than his share.

It's okay for parents to give some help by continuing to allow use of a room to young people until they can get on their own two feet. It's another thing to bail them out so much that they rely on it.

It's not right to open someone's mail. How would you like it if your son opened your mail and lectured you on it, or maybe just lost it? Put his unopened mail in a designated spot and leave it alone. He may feel he has no power in this situation. He should have the power to manage his own mail and his own problems.

 

[ICF]

We need to tighten the screws somehow but I don't know exactly what consequences are for a 21 year old.

tell him to move out?

 

[ibob52]

He would need to *Want* to Stop.

It maybe *possible* . . someone is being a *enabler*

 

[leebee]

I, too, have a young adult child living at home, and one of the first things we did was sit down and discuss expenses and house rules when she asked if she could live at home. DD22 graduated from college last spring. She worked full time from May until the end of August and then was cut back to half-time in her job as an admin assistant ($12 an hour). She started as a library/media technician in November, making almost as much money per hour, but works 35 hours a week when school is in session. She'll have a stipend to continue her position for the summer. She is living at home while her boyfriend finishes his last/5th year for his bachelor degree in engineering. They are planning on moving to follow his job (whatever/wherever), hopefully during summer 2016. We are hoping that by helping support her for this last year, she'll be in solid financial shape to start out on her own. We pay household expenses (mortgage, taxes, utilities), food, car insurance, medical insurance, household stuff (toilet paper, laundry soap, etc.) and some clothes. She pays her phone bill, school loans, netflix account, all her social life stuff, her dental and vision insurance, gas, and her "frivolous" clothes- and she pays her own credit cards (she has 2). She also buys her own make up and most of her toiletries. We pay for car repairs, because it's our car. She had trouble at first, keeping track of everything and when it was due, so I helped her set it up so that all her accounts are now due around the 15th of the month. She knows she has to sit down at the beginning of the month and pay her bills.

I know it helps DD, knowing she can do all the bill paying at one time so she isn't trying to remember what needs to be paid, and when. Maybe you could sit down with your son and set up something like this, so he can pay all his debts every month at one time. Maybe you could also outline exactly what he's responsible for every month- even if instead of rent, you outline it as car insurance, food, etc. Would he be more responsible if he could actually see what the money is used for every month? Other than this, I am not sure what you can do. He's an adult. At some point you have to let him take control of his own life, and if he crashes, it's on him.

 

[princess barbara]

If he has all this time to drive around and frequent Game Stop, what about suggesting a second job? What about introducing him to the envelope system? Is he putting away anything for the future through his employer?

 

[Marionnette]

Jake, we did print a spreadsheet for him and also we want him to track daily expenses so he can see where his money is piddled away. Our financial advisor said he would talk with him and we just need to figure a time to do that. It is what you say about consequences that we are having a tough time with. We need to tighten the screws somehow but I don't know exactly what consequences are for a 21 year old.

It's one thing to provide a safety net for your kids when they fall on tough times, like a divorce or job loss. Repeatedly bailing them out when they are acting in an irresponsible manner is just enabling that immature behavior. Your son is not going to learn to manage his finances if you don't let him handle his mistakes.

So, here's how you tighten the screws...

• You hand that credit card back to him. You stop using it and you stop paying it.
• You stop opening his mail. Period. It's none of your business. Let him handle it.
• You let him get his own phone plan and if necessary, help him port his number to that plan (since he's on your plan, you will have to give permission for this) . If his credit is so bad that he cannot get a regular plan, then there are pre-paid plans that he can get. If he doesn't pay the bill, he'll learn pretty quickly that the phone companies don't mess around.
• Let him get his own car insurance. If he doesn't pay the bill, he faces the consequences of driving without insurance. Don't bail him out if that happens. But, show him how to go about getting his own policy.
  
• You continue to charge him rent. If $400 at the beginning of the month is too difficult for him to budget, then you charge him $200 on each payday (if he gets paid bi-weekly). The rent gets paid before anything else and you make it clear that he doesn't have a choice in the matter. If he doesn't pay on time, then you begin to take benefits away. I'd start by changing the password on the wi-fi and not telling him what it is. If he has a TV in his room, cable privileges would be revoked until the rent was paid.
  
• You stop nagging him about financial planners, budgeting or any phone calls that you might get from collection agencies that are looking for him. If he asks for guidance, then you offer suggestions on how to handle things. You don't handle it for him and you don't get pissed off when he decides to handle it differently.

Unlike others, I would find it very difficult to toss my child out of the house unless they refused to find work or if they had a self-destructive habit (drug or alcohol abuse, gambling addiction, etc.) However, you are not doing him any favors by fixing all of his problems and "kissing the boo-boo" for him. Your assistance comes in the form of permitting him to live in your home.

My sons graduated from college and moved into their own places within 2 months of commencement ceremonies. I guess that I've been lucky. Both of them made boneheaded financial choices when they were in school...overdrawn bank accounts, late rent fees, forgetting to pay the electric bill, etc. So, they're far from perfect. They made their mistakes at an earlier age than your son, but they made those mistakes, nonetheless. The difference is that we made them handle digging themselves out so that they wouldn't repeat it.

 

[usnuzuloose]

If he has to pay his own way, he will find out that if you don't pay rent some where you won't be living some where. You don't pay ins, well big issue with that. It is time to let him fly. If he won't sit down and talk then he needs a huge wake up call. And you paying his bills is not helping, and he knows you will keep enabling him to do this. So you and hubby have to have a real heart to heart talk about where you want to go with it. This is MHO.

 

[Hisgirl]

Everyone is giving you pretty good advice and everyone is basically saying the same thing. As long as your son is able to 'get by' like he has been doing, he has no reason to change.
And grow up.

This...is where you are going to help him.

As much as it feels as if you are helping him now, you are actually injuring his natural and normal development into a fully functioning adult man. A man who could one day marry, father and raise children and support a household as possibly the sole support if needed. He needs to develop into a self-sustaining man in order to move forward.

I understand not wanting to just boot him out. But what you can do is this. Sit him down and tell him how proud you are that he graduated and has a job. And the natural progression is now going to begin happening. You are giving him a time line. In one month, he will have researched and acquired his own insurance. At the end of his cell phone lease, he will acquire his own cell phone, OR, he pays his share of a family plan. If he misses one month, you cancel his number. Period.

In two months, he begins paying for his own something else. And in three months he is to have found his own lodging.

Trust me and every one else here. Your son is showing you clearly...CLEARLY...that he is not maturing and growing into a self sustaining adult in the current situation. You love him and you want what is best for him. And that is to help him spread those wings and fly the coop. You won't always be here and he has to be able to take care of himself. You raised him to be independent, not dependent on you.

If you struggle with this, I suggest reading a book on boundaries or co-dependency. But I trust you understand what is and has happened and you want him to succeed. I think your son will surprise you and quite possibly himself when he finds he is actually able to spread his wings and fly. It's what you raised him to do.

Come on Dad. Help him to shut the door on his childhood and enter into the world of adulthood. You can do this. And so can he.

 

[StitchBuddy]

At 21 years old he needs to learn a lesson now. Would you rather he learn this lesson while there isn't much for him to lose? Or when he is 40 years old with a family to support? Make him take over all of his bills and sink or swim. You really aren't doing him an favors by making sure he has good credit, it will only enable him to get in over his head. Good luck, I know this ishard. I have a 19 year old.

 

[crisi]

If you boot him from the nest now, and he screws up, he'll declare bankruptcy in a year, take seven years to clear it from his record, and by the time he is 30, he has a chance to be stable.

If you keep enabling him, eventually you won't be able to any longer. At some point, he'll have to live on his own - and he won't have nearly the time to recover. And you won't be there for him because he'll likely outlive you.

One of my girlfriends has a brother who at 40 is still living in her parents basement. Her parents are elderly and will soon be moving into assisted living. They'll sell the house. What happens to her brother is a huge drain on her mother's emotional state.

My husband declared bankruptcy at about 21. Paid it off, and today is successful. He declared bankruptcy because his mother couldn't afford to help. Best thing that could have happened.

 

[seashell724]

I would probably ditch the phone payments and make him pay for it on his own. Technically if his boss needs him couldn't he call your son on the house phone?

I do like the idea of the person who said reduce the rent and make him pay for all the extras. Those extra things aren't a right after all. Or tell him if you reduce the rent he needs to put a certain amount in savings?

I know first hand that car techs don't make a ton of money. But, if he wants to do this long term he needs to figure out how to make it work. Especially since he got a 50% raise. At least some of that should be going into savings.

Maybe if you let one bill go to collections he would realize it is serious and get his act together. It would be better that happens now with a smaller bill than later with a bill in the tens of thousands.

I am quite young but my parents always said to me that when kids move out they expect to have what their parents have worked 40 years for. I try to remember this when I want, want, want and that my time will (hopefully) come. If he can't afford his car, sell it! Buy a junker! He is a tech so he will know how to fix it up!

 

[ldo]

needs a phone for work--tracfone (reconditioned non-cool phone) for about $25 + $20 month prepaid plan--that should do it. I kept an old tracfone for several years as the "consequence" phone (sassy mouth, bad grades, broken curfew=turn in your Iphone and use the tracfone until you earn the Iphone back). If someone really "needs" a phone, a tracfone works just fine. I would also let his bills go to collections if he refuses to talk and set a budget.

 

[sunshine1178]

I created a new account just for privacy but I've been a DIS member for many years. We have a son living at home who graduated from auto mechanic school in June. He has always worked and started working full time the day after he graduated. He doesn't make much and lives at home. The problem is he always spends more than he makes. He spends tons of money on gas because he likes to drive around, on food, on his car, and other things. He will find ways to use things like PayPal or Game Stop credit to buy things but won't have the money to pay it off and then will get letters from creditors. When we talk to him he basically says he just can't help himself. So we have been trying to make things less comfortable for him at home to try to get him to curb his spending. Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone. He has to have the car for work and needs the phone in case his boss needs him to come in etc. We turned off the internet on his phone but we are having trouble coming up with other ways to get the lightbulb to turn on so he is better about spending. We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings. He was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments. We worry about his credit and we did recently pay off his $400 balance on the Game Stop bill because it was about to go to collections. He won't even sit down to discuss money with us. We are super good with money and try to give him advice but he is extremely resistant. He is impulsive with spending.

So I'm looking for advice on how to make him a little less comfortable at home so he feels like he wants to pay us for the bills we laid out money for and his "rent" so he can get XYZ back. I'm doubt turning off his internet on the phone will be enough. We could say no more friends over. I'm not sure what else to do. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.

What's the long-term plan here? Is he intellectually/medically capable of living independently, or will he always need to live in a supervised situation? If you do think that he is capable of living independently, then ask him how he plans to achieve that. Start with a 10 year plan - big picture, where will he be? Owning his own shop? Teaching in a school? Working at a Quick Lube? When he has that idea, work backwards.

If he wants his own shop in 10 years, he should be a lead mechanic in what, 7 years? And to do that, where does he need to be in 5 years? Build a career ladder and show him that he's already two rungs up it.

If his 10 year plan isn't career, but personal, show him the path there. Kids in 10 years? Might need a house in 9. Touring with a band in 10 years? Then he'll need local fame in 8? Better step up the practices. Leveling out in World of Warcraft? That's going to mean leveling out each new edition. High speed internet, high speed processor, gaming mouse, etc.

It sounds to me like he's floating, unsure of what lies ahead. The best help that I can imagine is helping him to identify his goals and outlining a plan for achieving them.

 

[PatMcDuck]

I went thru this for awhile, too. Not quite as extreme, but I paid some of my oldest son's bills (not large ones), he would ignore stupid bills like $75 to Express, and let THAT go to collection!!! and I even drove over to pay a traffic ticket that he kept ignoring, I was worried about him losing his license. He had me losing my mind for awhile, he was about 21/22? I forget. He WAS working FT too, and seemed to be in control otherwise.... Sorry to say there was more going on, in his case... (got a DUI, admitted to me he was not handling things well at ALL, got sober after that, I was unaware there was a problem. Looking back, I was an idiot to have missed "signs").

The good news? He is almost 30, works insane hours at his job, makes lots of $$, and more importantly has a great GF, and a dog, and has a great life, and he is responsible with his finances).

Anyway, you need to get tougher with him, but you already knew that. Stop paying anything beyond him having a roof over his head (and maybe put a deadline on that too).

 

[barkley]

my opinions/personal experiences-

Right now we pay for his car insurance & phone

dd (21/student) pays her own car insurance and phone which she knows and is appreciative for getting large discounts on b/c they are under our policy/plan. she was much more carefree with her 'spending money' (work study earnings/scholarships minus school expenses) prior to taking these on to pay herself. now.....she's learned to budget. dd's earnings get direct deposited into her savings account which is set up so a set amount for her monthly expenses/'spending money' goes into her checking account-but her phone/insurance payments get auto pulled and paid to our account BEFORE her spending money gets sent to checking.

We do charge him "rent" which in reality we put away for him because he has zero savings

I've never understood this concept, and consider it 'play rent' which is why I suspect most 'adult' children don't take it seriously. they know it's not really 'rent' or 'room and board'-it's mommy and daddy's way of letting him/her play pretend adult and just holding on to their 'piggy bank'.

the amount you are charging is nominal to say the least-I don't know what rents are like where you live, but they are VERY low here and despite this (and having multiple roommates) I don't know ANYONE who could get away with just $400 a month (that would be close to grocery/personal needs cost alone). cripes-I paid room and board of $350 a month in the mid 80's.

was good about giving us the money but then had some car repair expenses and missed a few payments

but he's paying it in installments at work-is he paying them $400 per month (or much less and pocketing the difference)?

He is impulsive with spending

I don't know if I would call him 'impulsive'-more like he's 'conditioned'-by mommy and daddy paying for everything (including his debts). why should he worry about what he spends/owes when there are no consequences?

Well in a way he pays for the phone with his "rent

but he's not paying for rent-and when he was it was just pretend rent b/c it was his 'savings'-YOU ARE PAYING FOR HIS PHONE.

he does pay for the car expense on installments at work

so how much was the bill that his employer for repairs takes all $400 a month of his 'rent money' for at least the last 'few months'? must be an awfully nice car since most mechanics I know get labor free or at a deep discount where they work (and parts for cost plus a small percentage). if it's a high end car then it's probably expensive to insure-so in my opinion you're not doing any favors to him paying care insurance for (1) a car he can't afford to maintain/(2) a car he can't afford to insure.



I know it's not a popular opinion from what I've historically seen on the dis boards, but mine is that part of my duty as a parent is to teach my child to be an adult-and to do so I'm not going to let them (imho) play at it with me/dh rescuing them so they have no consequences if they just flat out ignore common sense and good advise. we help dd out with things like major car repairs (some are gifted/some are set up as interest free loans) b/c we don't want it to be the earth shattering financial shock many of our peers/their adult children encountered when they were truly on their own.



just be aware-if you take a stance on this and your son rebels-you may end up in the same boat my mom who was the great enabler to one of my brothers did-b/c you supposedly were charging 'rent' to your ds he is legally your tenant-with all the same legal rights as any tenant. a tenant you cannot ask to leave/force to leave/lock out of your home-but requires a timely, costly legal eviction (and for whom a sympathetic judge may award financial damages from you).

 

[tvguy]

I know it's not a popular opinion from what I've historically seen on the dis boards, but mine is that part of my duty as a parent is to teach my child to be an adult-and to do so I'm not going to let them (imho) play at it with me/dh rescuing them so they have no consequences if they just flat out ignore common sense and good advise. we help dd out with things like major car repairs (some are gifted/some are set up as interest free loans) b/c we don't want it to be the earth shattering financial shock many of our peers/their adult children encountered when they were truly on their own.
.

Forget DIS, it's not a popular opinion in America, as evidenced by the financial crisis of 6 or 7 years ago. I'm not talking about teaching kids financial responsibility, I'm talking about adults in their 30's, 40's and 50's and sometime's 60's being financial responsible.
My former next door neighbors were in that boat. They walked away from their house because they were upside down in it, and decided they were going to file for bankruptcy........only to have to walk back to their house and do a short sale because every bankruptcy attorney they went to told them they had more than enough income to pay all their bills, choosing not to pay them is not grounds for bankruptcy.