Help with school note/advice

[AppleDumpling]

[QUOTE="Nancyg56, post: 56562263, member: 94834]
Seriously? It's no big deal to ask teachers to put assignments together for a trip that takes place next week?[/QUOTE]

The teacher doesn't have to do it in advance. How do they treat students who are out sick for a few days? It can be handled in the same way, when they return. It is commonly done here.

Worst case, for HS and maybe MS too, the student asks a friend in each class to copy their notes from the days missed, so they can catch up. Most of our MS and HS teachers also post homework assignments, chapters to be read, etc. on their website, so the students may know what is covered and could possibly even bring some work to do on the plane, in the car or in the hotel at night.

 

[kidshop]

Well, kids here going into HS knowing it counts, middle school is your last year to mess up. Plus, freshman classes are typically easier than the upper grades.

What happens if you mess up in 9th grade? Do you turn to a life a crime since it is all over then?

 

[luvsJack]

If it's that bad, they should have saved everyone trouble and expelled the girl on the spot. Then she could have gone to one of those public school classes for kids with behavioural problems. Instead, they tie up the courts, involve lawyers, and punish someone for having been punished.

Punishment needs a purpose, and a goal. It's supposed to teach a lesson of some sort. I can't see what is achieved by both suspending the girl and then piling on some more bureaucratic nonsense based on the fact that she was suspended. It's double jeopardy, and there's no way to win!

Even if she's a horrible person, suspending her and then punishing her for being suspended will not make her a better person.

1. Its not that easy to expel a student. And not every district has schools for kids with behavior problems.

2. They don't look at the absences a kid already has before deciding on a punishment. Most schools have a discipline ladder. Where she is on the ladder determines the punishment, not her grades or how many days she has previously missed.

3. Maybe mom should have paid attention BEFORE it came to OSS.

The classroom also has a purpose and a goal and if someone is disrupting that then the student needs to be removed. Different school systems have different policies. At dd's high school they were given ISS several times and then OSS and THEN they could be expelled. Some went to Alternative school at that point. OSS is rarely enough by itself to fail a kid or cause a parent to go to court. Any additional absences are on the parent and the student.

 

[Nancyg56]

[QUOTE="Nancyg56, post: 56562263, member: 94834]
Seriously? It's no big deal to ask teachers to put assignments together for a trip that takes place next week?

The teacher doesn't have to do it in advance. How do they treat students who are out sick for a few days? It can be handled in the same way, when they return. It is commonly done here.

Worst case, for HS and maybe MS too, the student asks a friend in each class to copy their notes from the days missed, so they can catch up. Most of our MS and HS teachers also post homework assignments, chapters to be read, etc. on their website, so the students may know what is covered and could possibly even bring some work to do on the plane, in the car or in the hotel at night.[/QUOTE]

I believe that there is a difference between a student who was ill to ask a teacher for assistance after the fact and a student who has known for months that there was a vacation planned, but waited until the last minute to ask for assignments to be prepared ahead of time. The illness was not a voluntary absence from school, and was not foreseen. A vacation is voluntary and generally is planned in advance.

I agree that there are alternative methods to retrieving assignments, but that was not what was suggested.

 

[AppleDumpling]

Well, kids here going into HS knowing it counts, middle school is your last year to mess up. Plus, freshman classes are typically easier than the upper grades.

Yes. As far as I know, most if not all American colleges/universities require a high school transcript with the application that lists all courses taken, all grades and a cumulative GPA for all four years of high school. Sure, some kids may have some bumps along the way, but everyone is judged by the same criteria so it is fair. Everyone has equal opportunity to do well or mess up. And if a student starts with lower grades but shows improvement over the years, that's looked upon favorably. Also, here anyway, it is quite common for advanced students to take high school level courses in 8th grade, which would also be included on the HS transcript.

 

[Magpie]

1. Its not that easy to expel a student. And not every district has schools for kids with behavior problems.

2. They don't look at the absences a kid already has before deciding on a punishment. Most schools have a discipline ladder. Where she is on the ladder determines the punishment, not her grades or how many days she has previously missed.

3. Maybe mom should have paid attention BEFORE it came to OSS.

The classroom also has a purpose and a goal and if someone is disrupting that then the student needs to be removed. Different school systems have different policies. At dd's high school they were given ISS several times and then OSS and THEN they could be expelled. Some went to Alternative school at that point. OSS is rarely enough by itself to fail a kid or cause a parent to go to court. Any additional absences are on the parent and the student.

The problem is really that there is no ability for anyone in these schools to be flexible or look at the actual situation. No one can look at the record and go, "This girl has been suspended, couldn't come to school even if she had a change of heart and wanted to turn her life around, and so it'd be nonsensical to pursue truancy hearings." It's all automatic and impersonal.

And, as a result, you end up costing the system a whole lot more money than necessary.

Which then puts more pressure on the system to ensure that every student is occupying a seat, regardless of whether they're learning or not, so you can keep the money rolling in.

 

[luvsJack]

The problem is really that there is no ability for anyone in these schools to be flexible or look at the actual situation. No one can look at the record and go, "This girl has been suspended, couldn't come to school even if she had a change of heart and wanted to turn her life around, and so it'd be nonsensical to pursue truancy hearings." It's all automatic and impersonal.

And, as a result, you end up costing the system a whole lot more money than necessary.

Which then puts more pressure on the system to ensure that every student is occupying a seat, regardless of whether they're learning or not, so you can keep the money rolling in.

I can't answer that for the entire country but HERE the truancy officer doesn't work for the school system. He/she works for the county. A report is generated each month for the truancy officer from the school. It doesn't show WHY a student is absent only that they are absent and it is excused or unexcused.

Why should they make allowances for a kid who got into enough trouble to be suspended? Why should that parent not be hauled into court but the parent of the kid who had a lot of illness that he/she could not get dr. excuses for be hauled to court?

 

[Kitty 34]

What's weird (but I haven't read the entire thread so maybe it's been pointed out) but the OP asked pretty much the same question last year in July concerning a 3-day trip last year in Sept. I didn't want to bump up that thread or I'd be in the Walking Dead club!!!!

 

[Magpie]

I can't answer that for the entire country but HERE the truancy officer doesn't work for the school system. He/she works for the county. A report is generated each month for the truancy officer from the school. It doesn't show WHY a student is absent only that they are absent and it is excused or unexcused.

Why should they make allowances for a kid who got into enough trouble to be suspended? Why should that parent not be hauled into court but the parent of the kid who had a lot of illness that he/she could not get dr. excuses for be hauled to court?

Because it's expensive and pointless?

In any case (according to a family lawyer I know), around here "truancy" aka "school refusal" only comes up in court cases involving other issues such as neglect or abuse. There's no automated attendance report generated that causes pre-determined consequences to be applied, regardless of circumstance. A family under active supervision by CAS may be court ordered to send a young child to school, so that they can be observed by a teacher every day, but that's rare.

However, parents are never punished when their teenagers refuse to go to school. If a student is consistently absent, they may be referred to a "school refusal unit" at an alternative school (where they connect kids with mental health professionals), or they may be counselled to try a different approach.

For example: a friend of my son's tried a work-study placement, was offered the job for real, and ended up dropping out in Grade 11. He's now making quite a decent sum of money at the company, has an impressive portfolio for his future, and will likely never need a high school diploma anyway. There are no barriers to him going to University, either, if he decides to do that some day.

Homeschooling is simply a matter of informing the school in a letter of your intent to withdraw. And that's the end of it - there's no further paperwork or accountability to anyone. The school board is only concerned with children enrolled in that particular board (this makes sense as we have four different school boards operating simultaneously - French Public, English Public, French Catholic, and English Catholic).

(Edited to add: As for the doctor's note - I'm awfully glad my word is enough for the school! If I say the kid is sick, the kid is sick. No need to waste my doctor's time by having him write, "Yep, the kid's sick!")

 

[AppleDumpling]

I believe that there is a difference between a student who was ill to ask a teacher for assistance after the fact and a student who has known for months that there was a vacation planned, but waited until the last minute to ask for assignments to be prepared ahead of time. The illness was not a voluntary absence from school, and was not foreseen. A vacation is voluntary and generally is planned in advance.

Absolutely, and I agree with you on principle. All I'm saying is many teachers I know don't care about the reason for an absence and choose to help their students as much as possible and not punish them for a decision their parents made.

FWIW, I don't even know if we have truancy officers here; I've never heard of them nor heard of any parents going to court because their kids missed school.

 

[luvsJack]

forgot to add quote

 

[luvsJack]

Because it's expensive and pointless?

In any case (according to a family lawyer I know), around here "truancy" aka "school refusal" only comes up in court cases involving other issues such as neglect or abuse. There's no automated attendance report generated that causes pre-determined consequences to be applied, regardless of circumstance. A family under active supervision by CAS may be court ordered to send a young child to school, so that they can be observed by a teacher every day, but that's rare.

However, parents are never punished when their teenagers refuse to go to school. If a student is consistently absent, they may be referred to a "school refusal unit" at an alternative school (where they connect kids with mental health professionals), or they may be counselled to try a different approach.

For example: a friend of my son's tried a work-study placement, was offered the job for real, and ended up dropping out in Grade 11. He's now making quite a decent sum of money at the company, has an impressive portfolio for his future, and will likely never need a high school diploma anyway. There are no barriers to him going to University, either, if he decides to do that some day.

Homeschooling is simply a matter of informing the school in a letter of your intent to withdraw. And that's the end of it - there's no further paperwork or accountability to anyone. The school board is only concerned with children enrolled in that particular board (this makes sense as we have four different school boards operating simultaneously - French Public, English Public, French Catholic, and English Catholic).

(Edited to add: As for the doctor's note - I'm awfully glad my word is enough for the school! If I say the kid is sick, the kid is sick. No need to waste my doctor's time by having him write, "Yep, the kid's sick!")

That is all that is required in this state to homeschool too.

How is it pointless for one and not the other? If a kid and parent ends up in court because the kid cannot stay out of trouble and in school, maybe it will wake one of them up.

We can send parent notes for some days. After so many, we have to have a dr. excuse. LOL, at wasting the dr. time. Its a computer generated note with a signature stamp, generated by the receptionist.

 

[Magpie]

That is all that is required in this state to homeschool too.

How is it pointless for one and not the other? If a kid and parent ends up in court because the kid cannot stay out of trouble and in school, maybe it will wake one of them up.

What is the parent supposed to do?

If my (theoretical) 16 year old doesn't want to go to school, how am I supposed to make them? Do I call the police to come to my house, and drag my kid off to school for me? (I genuinely am wondering - what DO parents in states where they could go to court if their kid skips school do?)

I can't see how using the courts to punish families for attendance problems accomplishes anything useful. The system we've got here seems to work just fine without anyone trying to "wake up" parents and/or their kids by bludgeoning them with the law.

I skipped my morning math class through most of Grade 5. My mother was a single parent, working her butt off to provide for me. I was seeing a psychiatrist at the local hospital (free - yay, Canada!). My mum was doing everything she could possibly do, to make sure I got a good education. Is it reasonable to haul her into court, take away custody of me, possibly cause her to lose her job or bankrupt her with lawyers fees? I'm awfully glad none of that happened!

 

[Magpie]

We can send parent notes for some days. After so many, we have to have a dr. excuse. LOL, at wasting the dr. time. Its a computer generated note with a signature stamp, generated by the receptionist.

Doesn't it cost you money? Also, how do they know you aren't lying?

If it's that easy, then I suppose it's a bonus for the doctor. Our doctor actually sees you and then hand writes a note describing what's actually wrong with you.

Then again, you'd only need that kind of note if you were going to miss a significant amount of time (ie, a month for mono, or something), and wanted to look into getting a home visit teacher.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

D'oh! Of course. Clearly I don't have off

Same LOL

although, my calendar says Yom Kippur is Tuesday, but since nobody around here celebrates it, I guess maybe it's one of those evening things?

 

[cabanafrau]

The problem is really that there is no ability for anyone in these schools to be flexible or look at the actual situation. No one can look at the record and go, "This girl has been suspended, couldn't come to school even if she had a change of heart and wanted to turn her life around, and so it'd be nonsensical to pursue truancy hearings." It's all automatic and impersonal.

And, as a result, you end up costing the system a whole lot more money than necessary.

Which then puts more pressure on the system to ensure that every student is occupying a seat, regardless of whether they're learning or not, so you can keep the money rolling in.

How could you know that unless you have participated in this type of proceeding?

 

[sam_gordon]

Same LOL

although, my calendar says Yom Kippur is Tuesday, but since nobody around here celebrates it, I guess maybe it's one of those evening things?

Don't forget Jewish Holidays start at Sundown. So Yom Kippur would start at sundown Monday and last through Tuesday Sundown.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Doesn't it cost you money? Also, how do they know you aren't lying?

If it's that easy, then I suppose it's a bonus for the doctor. Our doctor actually sees you and then hand writes a note describing what's actually wrong with you.

Then again, you'd only need that kind of note if you were going to miss a significant amount of time (ie, a month for mono, or something), and wanted to look into getting a home visit teacher.

If its a simple illness like a stomach bug, I can call my kids' doctor, tell them what's going on and they'll have a note ready for me to pick up without an actual exam. It costs me nothing.

 

[QueenIsabella]

What's weird (but I haven't read the entire thread so maybe it's been pointed out) but the OP asked pretty much the same question last year in July concerning a 3-day trip last year in Sept. I didn't want to bump up that thread or I'd be in the Walking Dead club!!!!

Hmm, that's interesting. I was under the impression that this was a once-in-a-lifetime experience sort of thing, But now I see that it's the "only chance to see the Halloween decorations". Which is nice and all, but I'll probably go my whole life without seeing WDW decorated for Halloween, and somehow survive it. It also makes you wonder what, if anything, she did with regards to the school system for that last trip.

I also wanted to point out that we do block scheduling in HS here. Not only that, but my middle-schooler is currently taking 2 HS courses, math and science, that by default are block scheduled courses. That means she has an entire year's worth of HS science in a semester--the other semester is compacted 8th grade science. Obviously, she's also a smart kid who cares about her grades, and is already thinking about her college choices. Missing a few days of school for a vacation would make her anxious--it's doubtful she'd even want to, or be able to enjoy herself if I did suggest such a thing. But, I also recognize that she's not typical--some kids might jump at the chance of the vacation, and get right back into the school groove afterwards. But, it assumes that they're good students but not honors track, no AP classes, and no extracurriculars that require daily attendance.

 

[luvsJack]

What is the parent supposed to do?

If my (theoretical) 16 year old doesn't want to go to school, how am I supposed to make them? Do I call the police to come to my house, and drag my kid off to school for me? (I genuinely am wondering - what DO parents in states where they could go to court if their kid skips school do?)

I can't see how using the courts to punish families for attendance problems accomplishes anything useful. The system we've got here seems to work just fine without anyone trying to "wake up" parents and/or their kids by bludgeoning them with the law.

I skipped my morning math class through most of Grade 5. My mother was a single parent, working her butt off to provide for me. I was seeing a psychiatrist at the local hospital (free - yay, Canada!). My mum was doing everything she could possibly do, to make sure I got a good education. Is it reasonable to haul her into court, take away custody of me, possibly cause her to lose her job or bankrupt her with lawyers fees? I'm awfully glad none of that happened!

Find out why her child cannot stay out of trouble. Find out why her child is not going to school. Get her kid some counseling if she needs to. Back the school up with some at home punishment. You know- - parent.

My brother was one of those kids who just wouldn't go to school. He ended up in Saturday school for the remainder of the year and then summer school--agreement between the court and my parents. My parents took away his driving privileges and his keys. Mom drove him to Saturday school and summer school other than that he went no where. They used their parenting skills. It is a parent's responsibility to make sure their child follows the laws and goes to school.

Could your psychiatrist not write a note? And you are being extreme anyway. I would bet that the school had some idea where you were every morning.

I am glad your system works. Doesn't make ours wrong.