Help - Was Scammed!

[Chuck S]

I haven't been looking but if the mods want to know to keep an eye out I am happy to DM them his name.

He has been trying to join other groups he wasn't banned from so it is possible he will land here. I think he would have got away with it had some of the first people to figure it out not been able to group together on Facebook.

We're up to 20 now and 2 more families who have upcoming stays with him that are trusting him.

He is doubling down that we all have to wait to do anything until we arrive to no rooms. Which someone has already done. It's almost comical.

Someone provided that info to us early on, thanks. IMO it is doubtful a scammer would want to pay money to continue, as anyone registered on the DISBoards for less than 6 months has to pay to use our Rent/Transfer board and provide their deeded name.

 

[DonMacGregor]

He is doubling down that we all have to wait to do anything until we arrive to no rooms. Which someone has already done. It's almost comical.

Yeah, no. I'm not at all suggesting anyone do anything extreme or illegal, but sometimes you reach the point where it's time to start coloring outside the lines...

 

[Ashlotte]

Did anyone watch "The Tinder Swindler" on Netflix? This has a similar feel. Maybe people involved should reach out to producers of shows who like this sort of thing (Dateline, 20/20, Netflix) and see if they'd like to help and gather more information.

 

[suebeelin]

So sorry this happened to you— what a horrible person!!!!

Do you mind if I asked what this con artist charged per point??? Wondering if he charged less to make his con more enticing….

 

[bumbershoot]

It's possible I missed something. If any of the people who claimed that timeshare transactions are forbidden by Paypal have a reference, I would like to see it. Thanks.

It's considered a real estate transaction.

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp...oblem-(purchase-protection-for-buyers)-faq645

 

[cm8]

So sorry this happened to you— what a horrible person!!!!

Do you mind if I asked what this con artist charged per point??? Wondering if he charged less to make his con more enticing….

This!! What a great question!

 

[DVCSunDevil]

I was scammed, along with about 20 other families, by a man on Facebook renting DVC Vacation Points. So far there's about 3000 points that have been 'rented' out and none of us have valid reservations or stays. Many are upcoming and he's refusing to refund now that the jig is up.

I don't know if I can name and shame here but I want to know if there's anything I can do? Also if DVC has anyone that I can report him to? Maybe they won't care but I'd like to hope they would.

He's refusing refunds and of course demanded payment over Apple Pay/PayPal so we are fighting with our banks in hopes they take up the case.

Of course the sucky part is that we're all now left without reservations I'm hopeful I can make something happen for our group but I'm just so sad.

Anyway, any helpful ideas would be very welcome on what to do now. THANK YOU!

I saw that on the FB group. I am sorry this happened to you. Scammers get me so mad...they are the scum of the earth.

Since the person who did this has a FB profile, is it possible to see where he lives? You could then use his name and location to search the Orange County Comptroller sites to find his DVC purchase, which would include his address. Then you could furnish that info to law enforcement to hopefully get some movement on this.

My mother in law was scammed by someone on FB a few years ago. The person lived in another city and law enforcement wasn't too motivated to pursue it without more information narrowing down who the person was. If this person is indeed a DVC owner, the deed would be posted on the comptroller site.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Many of his reservations were also beyond the 7 months so right now he'd have to have 'home' resorts of Wilderness Lodge, Polynesian, AKL, Saratoga Springs and Grand Californian along with Aulani. 1500 alone just at AKL.

But were those reservations actually made? From one of your earlier comments, it sounds like one of his reservation "confirmations" was actually photoshopped. He could be taking one confirmation email (in order to get the layout) and then photoshopping it for other "reservation" scams.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

This makes even less sense to me. I've used all kinds of forums and anonymous systems to rent, including one that is now gone RIP, which certainly didn't have any kind of checks. And I never paid a dime until MDE was done, which is standard practice, and has been long before I started renting five years ago.

To be fair, not everyone knows that. There are a lot of people who are new to renting. The practice you laid out sounds like the best way to do it, but someone who is new wouldn't know that.

 

[CarolMN]

To be fair, not everyone knows that. There are a lot of people who are new to renting. The practice you laid out sounds like the best way to do it, but someone who is new wouldn't know that.

Sadly, there are too many naive people out there, who blindly trust and do not complete any due diligence.

I know our DIS R/T Board rules can be a pain, but they are keeping almost all scammers out, and we have had very few issues when the rules are followed and both parties use some common sense.

IMO, FB is the Wild, Wild West and only those who really know what they are doing should arrange DVC rentals there. YMMV.

 

[DVCSunDevil]

Sadly, there are too many naive people out there, who blindly trust and do not complete any due diligence.

I know our DIS R/T Board rules can be a pain, but they are keeping almost all scammers out, and we have had very few issues when the rules are followed and both parties use some common sense.

IMO, FB is the Wild, Wild West and only those who really know what they are doing should arrange DVC rentals there. YMMV.

100%. I completely agree. I was just trying to highlight the fact that someone who is new to renting may not know the best way to verify an honest renter. Some of the comments seemed kind of condemning when talking about those who maybe didn't go through all the due diligence that those more experienced renters described. If someone didn't know, they didn't know. No need to criticize them for it.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

100%. I completely agree. I was just trying to highlight the fact that someone who is new to renting may not know the best way to verify an honest renter. Some of the comments seemed kind of condemning when talking about those who maybe didn't go through all the due diligence that those more experienced renters described. If someone didn't know, they didn't know. No need to criticize them for it.

Sadly, this is much the way of the world now. We tend to blame the victim as much as the victimizer these days.

 

[DonMacGregor]

100%. I completely agree. I was just trying to highlight the fact that someone who is new to renting may not know the best way to verify an honest renter. Some of the comments seemed kind of condemning when talking about those who maybe didn't go through all the due diligence that those more experienced renters described. If someone didn't know, they didn't know. No need to criticize them for it.

I agree. It's a Catch-22.

Telling someone who's new to the process that they should have done their due diligence begs the question of when due diligence has been met. You can only know if you've gone far enough with research when you're armed with a prior understanding of the process. It's the classic Donald Rumsfeld "things we know" situation.

For something like buying a used car, it's relatively easy to due some Google research and to visit automotive review sites or Consumer Reports to see what recalls may have been issued on the vehicle model, which can in turn be checked via CARFAX etc. Not a one-stop-shop, but buying a used car is a relatively straightforward and ubiquitous process.

For a more complex or nuanced process like buying or renting a timeshare, the myriad things that can go wrong or be manipulated may not be so readily apparent to someone who simply wants to rent a room at WDW.

 

[c0reyann]

So sorry this happened to you— what a horrible person!!!!

Do you mind if I asked what this con artist charged per point??? Wondering if he charged less to make his con more enticing….

He was charging $17/point for most of us. While it was low, I mistakenly believed him when he said he wasn't trying to make a lot of money off of this but rather get rid of an excess of points he had.

But were those reservations actually made? From one of your earlier comments, it sounds like one of his reservation "confirmations" was actually photoshopped. He could be taking one confirmation email (in order to get the layout) and then photoshopping it for other "reservation" scams.

Out of the now 22 people we've now found (who knows how more are out there!) only 3 people had valid reservation numbers given to them. Of those three only one was booked with DVC points but only for one night of a mult-night stay, two were booked with a cash deposit for one night of multi-night stays. The rest of us were either given the run around when asking for reservation numbers or were given numbers that didn't match Disney's records when trying to add to MDE.

The man claims that there's a known DVC glitch and that's why he's having all these troubles. He also claims he can only do all of this over the phone. Early on he was sending copy and pasted reservation emails that I think he fudged from past valid reservations of his own (he owns at Aulani and either also owns at VGC or stays there often).

I know that I didn't do my own diligence when booking but I checked with references and thought he was legit. He was using a phone number registered to his name and using his real Facebook account.

 

[RoseGold]

For a more complex or nuanced process like buying or renting a timeshare, the myriad things that can go wrong or be manipulated may not be so readily apparent to someone who simply wants to rent a room at WDW.

There's plenty of information out there about the process. Heck, there was when I rented five years ago. Even the FB groups have links to stuff like this -- and even the sketchiest rental sites, like the one I used, RIP. This board has them at the top of the rent board.

If that makes me "victim blaming," whatever. There are ways for renters to do diligence and protect themselves to some degree, and they're the rules of these boards. Apparently a lot of people didn't do them. I don't see what this has to do with DIS, as it actually violates DIS's rules, and this isn't a normal thing here.

I'm sorry anyone got scammed. But I hope that future potential renters can learn to do better from this and to understand the risks.

 

[DonMacGregor]

If that makes me "victim blaming," whatever.

And there it is, writ large.

 

[Ashlotte]

He was charging $17/point for most of us. While it was low, I mistakenly believed him when he said he wasn't trying to make a lot of money off of this but rather get rid of an excess of points he had.



Out of the now 22 people we've now found (who knows how more are out there!) only 3 people had valid reservation numbers given to them. Of those three only one was booked with DVC points but only for one night of a mult-night stay, two were booked with a cash deposit for one night of multi-night stays. The rest of us were either given the run around when asking for reservation numbers or were given numbers that didn't match Disney's records when trying to add to MDE.

The man claims that there's a known DVC glitch and that's why he's having all these troubles. He also claims he can only do all of this over the phone. Early on he was sending copy and pasted reservation emails that I think he fudged from past valid reservations of his own (he owns at Aulani and either also owns at VGC or stays there often).

I know that I didn't do my own diligence when booking but I checked with references and thought he was legit. He was using a phone number registered to his name and using his real Facebook account.

If there are 22 known people, there must be so many others. Since this spans several states, has anyone contacted the FBI?

 

[CarolMN]

I'm sorry anyone got scammed. But I hope that future potential renters can learn to do better from this and to understand the risks.

Me, too! Even here on the DIS, it would help a lot if people just read the Required Reading thread before they post here on the DIS. The vast majority do not. Chuck & I have to refuse most submissions because the posters do not read the rules/instructions. I haven't figured out the percentages for awhile, but the refusal rate is shockingly high and shows no sign of going down. Thank goodness for cut and paste, LOL.

 

[DonMacGregor]

Me, too! Even here on the DIS, it would help a lot if people just read the Required Reading thread before they post here on the DIS. The vast majority do not. Chuck & I have to refuse most submissions because the posters do not read the rules/instructions. I haven't figured out the percentages for awhile, but the refusal rate is shockingly high and shows no sign of going down. Thank goodness for cut and paste, LOL.

Which supports my point that there is a ton of nuance involved in renting DVC, and for the real "vast majority" (those who aren't DIS members, and don't have access to or even know about the resources here) there is no "Required Reading" thread for them to readily access or even be aware of its existence, and we should be sympathetic to their situation and not bang on them for not knowing.

Again, as Rumsfeld said:, there are known unknowns (you said you have money in your wallet, so I know there is currency in there but don't how much) and unknown unknowns (you never mentioned it and I have no idea if you have any credit cards in there too, although it is very possible they're in there too). It's a matter not of being ignorant, but of not being aware of all of the potential variables. If we don't even know the variable exists, we can't ask the right questions to define it (and in turn eliminate the variable).

We can certainly be critical of someone knowing the questions to ask and choosing not to ask them, but we can't be critical of someone not knowing all of the questions to begin with (or even having access to the right questions or knowing that a resource such as The DIS exists).

 

[TiggerBouncy]

And there it is, writ large.

Caveat emptor, right?

There's plenty of information out there about the process. Heck, there was when I rented five years ago. Even the FB groups have links to stuff like this -- and even the sketchiest rental sites, like the one I used, RIP. This board has them at the top of the rent board.

If that makes me "victim blaming," whatever. There are ways for renters to do diligence and protect themselves to some degree, and they're the rules of these boards. Apparently a lot of people didn't do them. I don't see what this has to do with DIS, as it actually violates DIS's rules, and this isn't a normal thing here.

In today's world, Disney itself is a very large, complex animal. I have friends who tell me "Hey - I am bringing my family to Disney! You're a Disney person - what should we see?"

EVERY PERSON ON THESE BOARDS KNOWS WHAT COMES NEXT.... We've all been there.
"Do you have tickets yet?" - nope. they were going to buy them at the gate. I mean - you just GO THERE and give them a credit card and they let you in, right?
"Park Reservations?" - What are those?
"ADR's?" - Well, I don't know where we want to eat. But if you have any recommendations, I will walk up there when I am hungry, right?
"Genie+" - who has a Genie now? You mean like from Aladdin?
"MDE App?" - I don't know much about cell phones. What do I need this for?

Now if you do not know anything about any of this - TRY to look it up. It's like trying to learn nuclear physics from google. You have pretty much NO CHANCE. There are so many conflicting pieces of information, opinions (many of which are wrong), outdated information, etc. Things change so much, so fast that what was true last week may be completely wrong now. You need a PhD in WDW to be able to even advise someone properly. Even TA's get it wrong. Bless you if you try to youtube it....

Now throw the COMPLEXITY of a time share on top of all that.

An average person really doesn't even have the base that they need to understand everything they are reading, much less grasp all the nuances without studying it for longer than most people have the time or patience for.

I am buying a house right now. I have bought one before. The contracts and long and complex. I pay a real estate agent to help me. She knows her job well. But she can only navigate so much. There are far more complex things like mortgages and finances and taxes that she doesn't know. MANY PEOPLE end up in very bad positions when buying a house despite the use of professionals to help them.

I swear Disney with a DVC rental is every bit as complex with every bit of nuance. It's just not reasonable to expect the average person to be able to understand it all or know what they need to find out. Blaming them for not doing their research is the equivalent of asking me to build a house by myself and then blaming me when the plumbing doesn't pass inspection.