Help Settle Argument

[DisneyFan0304]

Hi everyone --

I'm in the midst of a debate with someone about renting DVC points. The person I'm debating insists that Disney must somehow be benefiting from people who rent their DVC points to non-members. He thinks maybe they raise the number of points needed to cover a reservation for non-members. For example (and just using numbers pulled out of the air; I have no idea the number of points needed at any particular property for a particular period of time) a week at a studio at the Beach Club would be 100 points for members and 120 points for non-members. To me that doesn't seem right. It seems like the number of points should be the number of points and that's that.

Does Disney get anything from points that are rented? It seems to me that once you buy the points Disney has gotten their money and they're out of it. If you decide to rent your points it has nothing to do with Disney.

Can someone please help clarify this?

Thanks.

PS: If this is in the wrong place, please feel free to move it. If this isn't allowed, I'm sorry.

 

[DougEMG]

There is no direct benefit to Disney when members rent their points. The point costs of the room are the same regardless of who is staying in the room.

 

[disneynutz]

The benefit to Disney is that someone will be spending their money on admission, food, and extras. Points not rented run the risk of being forfeited and IMO that happens more than one would think.

Bill

 

[DebbieB]

Hi everyone --

I'm in the midst of a debate with someone about renting DVC points. The person I'm debating insists that Disney must somehow be benefiting from people who rent their DVC points to non-members. He thinks maybe they raise the number of points needed to cover a reservation for non-members. For example (and just using numbers pulled out of the air; I have no idea the number of points needed at any particular property for a particular period of time) a week at a studio at the Beach Club would be 100 points for members and 120 points for non-members. To me that doesn't seem right. It seems like the number of points should be the number of points and that's that.

Does Disney get anything from points that are rented? It seems to me that once you buy the points Disney has gotten their money and they're out of it. If you decide to rent your points it has nothing to do with Disney.

Can someone please help clarify this?

Thanks.

PS: If this is in the wrong place, please feel free to move it. If this isn't allowed, I'm sorry.

Renters are possible future members. My first time in a DVC was as a guest of a member. Had no intention of buying DVC. Six months later I was signing by the Mickey heads.

Disney can actually be losing on renters. More and more people are renting rather than booking rooms through CRO. I don't know how they could put restrictions on renters but they could not change the point values. People who advocate that has to keep in mind that it could also be restricting when you give rooms to friends or relatives. For example, I have a DVC friend whose daughter went on her honeymoon to Aulani.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Hope, nothing like your friend is arguing. The only way Disney could benefit is getting a new guest into the parks or resorts who may spend more than an owner who has gone frequently or as a potential new member. It also was a nice initial sales point for the owner in that they can rent out if they weren't going to use their points.

 

[kamik86]

Benefits to disney:
1) People who forfeit points don't buy admission, food and souvenirs. If they rent their points then someone goes to disney and buys admission, food, and souvenirs.
2) People who rent and really like it are more likely to buy.
3) People are more likely to buy if they know if they can't go for some reason for a year that they have an option to rent the points and recoup the cost.
4) People are less likely to try to sell or worse to just stop paying dues and go into foreclosure on a contract if they can rent points to offset costs if they can't afford to travel for some time.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

They could benefit somewhat, but not directly...
It's possible that a new member that is knowledgable may buy more points than immediately needed, knowing they can rent them out if not used.
I know this happens, as we did this very thing when we were members.

MG

 

[DisneyFan0304]

Thanks everyone. That's pretty much the way I thought it worked.

Another thing he brought up was where's the incentive to spend the initial buy-in and yearly maintenance if you can rent someone's points? I figure it's the ability to vacation at Disney every year and eventually break even vs. the cost of paying for rooms or renting points. How long does it take the average member to reach the break-even point?

Can you use your points at any DVC property anywhere? Can you go to non-Disney resorts? Are the discounts on admissions, dining plans, restaurants, stores, etc. worthwhile?

Just trying to gather as much information as I can because I know there's going to be more discussion. Once he gets at idea it's pretty hard to get him to let go of it!

Thanks.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks everyone. That's pretty much the way I thought it worked.

Another thing he brought up was where's the incentive to spend the initial buy-in and yearly maintenance if you can rent someone's points? I figure it's the ability to vacation at Disney every year and eventually break even vs. the cost of paying for rooms or renting points. How long does it take the average member to reach the break-even point?

Can you use your points at any DVC property anywhere? Can you go to non-Disney resorts? Are the discounts on admissions, dining plans, restaurants, stores, etc. worthwhile?

Just trying to gather as much information as I can because I know there's going to be more discussion. Once he gets at idea it's pretty hard to get him to let go of it!

Thanks.

Break even is 10 years or so if you would be staying in the same rooms if you didn't own DVC. DVC points are best used at DVC resorts, anywhere else is usually expensive and advertised by Disney to get more people to buy direct. Discounts come and go and again are used to get people to buy direct.

Bill

 

[Happy2BGoofy]

Break even is 10 years or so if you would be staying in the same rooms if you didn't own DVC. DVC points are best used at DVC resorts, anywhere else is usually expensive and advertised by Disney to get more people to buy direct. Discounts come and go and again are used to get people to buy direct.

Bill

I like to differ. It would all depend in how often you go to Disney. I have travelled to Disney several times since we bought into the DVC (5 times in the last 4 years) and I am almost at the break even point. New resorts require more points now a days compared to older DVC resorts (our home is the AKL), so IMHO you get more bang for your money when you buy into these resorts as opposed to the new Aulani or Polynesian.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I like to differ. It would all depend in how often you go to Disney. I have travelled to Disney several times since we bought into the DVC (5 times in the last 4 years) and I am almost at the break even point. New resorts require more points now a days compared to older DVC resorts (our home is the AKL), so IMHO you get more bang for your money when you buy into these resorts as opposed to the new Aulani or Polynesian.

The number of times you visit really shouldn't matter. It's a case of more cash vs more points.
The Poly being more points, well I didn't do the math to calculate a ratio, but the Poly is also more for a cash stay.

ETA: I think I see your point now about visiting more often. You get the return on your investment quicker.... Got it.

MG

 

[disneynutz]

I like to differ. It would all depend in how often you go to Disney. I have travelled to Disney several times since we bought into the DVC (5 times in the last 4 years) and I am almost at the break even point. New resorts require more points now a days compared to older DVC resorts (our home is the AKL), so IMHO you get more bang for your money when you buy into these resorts as opposed to the new Aulani or Polynesian.

Would you have stayed at a DVC resort if you didn't own there? Do you vacation more often because you own DVC? Are you spending more money on vacations since buying DVC?

Many think that buying DVC will save them money while for some, they end up spending more, break even is just a small part of the total equasion.

Bill

 

[Deb & Bill]

If we had not purchased our first DVC points in 1997, we wouldn't have gone 41 times in 19 years. We might have gone one or two more times. And we wouldn't have booked DVC one and two bedroom villas. I figure we still haven't broken even.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

If we had not purchased our first DVC points in 1997, we wouldn't have gone 41 times in 19 years. We might have gone one or two more times. And we wouldn't have booked DVC one and two bedroom villas. I figure we still haven't broken even.

All true... But you likely would have spent at least some of those vacation dollars in other locales..

MG

 

[Dean]

Rentals cost DVD and Disney money because those members might have stayed on cash through Disney or they might rent intends of buy. Of course they indirectly benefit some in future sales due to exposure and on the usual visit parameters of tickets and the like. My view is that the overall is it costs them money.

I like to differ. It would all depend in how often you go to Disney. I have travelled to Disney several times since we bought into the DVC (5 times in the last 4 years) and I am almost at the break even point. New resorts require more points now a days compared to older DVC resorts (our home is the AKL), so IMHO you get more bang for your money when you buy into these resorts as opposed to the new Aulani or Polynesian.

IMO using the DVC rack rate even discounted is a poor measure. The 2 measures of true return IMO are what one would have spent without DVC or the private rental costs. Plus one has to consider the lost value of the dollars used such as TVM. Using those measures I think it's very difficult to arrive at a 5 year or less break even unless one bought OKW or VB with free passes back in the day.

 

[Disney Dad ADL]

Another thing he brought up was where's the incentive to spend the initial buy-in and yearly maintenance if you can rent someone's points?

When you rent someone's point, you have no control over the reservation. If the DVC owner forgets to pay his dues or decides to sell, for example, your reservation gets cancelled. Also, in the long run, it is *probably* (but not guaranteed to be) cheaper to own DVC than to rent points every single year for the next 40 years. 10 years seems about right to me, but it all depends on what assumptions you are making (how much are MFs going to go up? how much are hotel rooms going to go up?, etc).

Can you use your points at any DVC property anywhere?

Yes. You book 11 months in advance for your home resort, 7 months for all other DVC properties. The only locations are WDW, Grand Californian at Disneyland, Hilton Head, Vero Beach, and Aulani in Hawaii.

Can you go to non-Disney resorts?

Yes, but it's not very cost effective. You can exchange into RCI (which is a timeshare exchange). There are much cheaper ways to get into RCI.

Are the discounts on admissions, dining plans, restaurants, stores, etc. worthwhile?

Not really, with the possible exception of the annual pass discount. Don't buy DVC for the perks, they can change at any time. Perks at this time only come with buying DVC direct from Disney. Resale members who purchase now don't get the perks (older resale owners still get the perks).

 

[bumbershoot]

Another thing he brought up was where's the incentive to spend the initial buy-in and yearly maintenance if you can rent someone's points?

I had the chance to rent for our first trip or two to WDW, and considered it, but then felt it was a waste of money. I knew we would buy in anyway, so why do that? Also, having someone else in charge of everything just made me nervous.

Not everyone wants to rent for forever.

And not everyone wants to rent out their own points. We don't.