Help needed: Transfer or borrow points?

[kdzgon]

I could use some advice/help from experienced members, please!

We are soon-to-be DVC owners (SSR and HHI), and I am in the middle of planning a family trip for late Sept '07, 21 people (incl 2- 4 yr olds and 2 - 2 yr olds), 8 rms IF individual/studios. We had been planning value & deluxe resort combos (6 + 2) with AAA or AP discounts, but now I am thinking DVC, with families renting points as necessary might be preferable. Ideally, I am looking at 3 - 2 BR units plus 2 - studios or possibly 1 GV (if avail) instead of one 2-BR. I want to try for OKW first, due to lower point requirements.

Q 1A: Any opinions as to likely availability @ OKW for choices above @ 7 mo window? 1B: Should I reserve my home resort (SSR) @ 11 months, and then try for OKW @ 7 mos?

Q 2: If I look for point transfer for extra points needed and they are OKW points, will I be able to use these pts to book now ("now" = as soon as we close & are in system) (esp for GV - assuming I obtain transfer of enough pts for room(s) booked - I know I cannot use my pts @ OKW @ 11 mos for any reason)?

If OKW and no GV, we will need just over 900 pts total (GV +~150), so we will be approx 200 (~350) pts short with our current yr points for this trip alone (we are planning on taking more than one trip ourselves within the yr.). This brings me to Q. 3: Should I borrow points first (400 avail), or just go ahead and transfer the extra points we need now? If I transfer pts, I would still retain the option to bank my excess (original) 2007 and/or 2008 pts to ea. respective following yr. Also, I am hoping to rent my remaining 2006 points which if successful would help finance the transfer of points.

Q 4: If I borrow 2008 pts and then don't need them all, I believe I can bank my 2007 pts (assuming I meet the deadlines, incl cancellation deadlines), right? Wouldn't that essentially (although not technically) return my points to 2008?

I know we can purchase DDP if staying @ DVC. Q 5 (admittedly a completely subjective one): Is the experience of staying in DVC worth the extra cost if free dining is available (with on-site hotels)? I know the savings is not really the full cost of the DDP, as the room rate increases to rack rate, but there is still a savings of a few hundred $$ per family.

Thanks so much for your help!

Laurie

 

[kdzgon]

Any input whatsoever, anyone? Please??

 

[Judique]

I could use some advice/help from experienced members, please!

We are soon-to-be DVC owners (SSR and HHI), and I am in the middle of planning a family trip for late Sept '07, 21 people (incl 2- 4 yr olds and 2 - 2 yr olds), 8 rms IF individual/studios. We had been planning value & deluxe resort combos (6 + 2) with AAA or AP discounts, but now I am thinking DVC, with families renting points as necessary might be preferable. Ideally, I am looking at 3 - 2 BR units plus 2 - studios or possibly 1 GV (if avail) instead of one 2-BR. I want to try for OKW first, due to lower point requirements.

Q 1A: Any opinions as to likely availability @ OKW for choices above @ 7 mo window? 1B: Should I reserve my home resort (SSR) @ 11 months, and then try for OKW @ 7 mos?

Q 2: If I look for point transfer for extra points needed and they are OKW points, will I be able to use these pts to book now ("now" = as soon as we close & are in system) (esp for GV - assuming I obtain transfer of enough pts for room(s) booked - I know I cannot use my pts @ OKW @ 11 mos for any reason)?

If OKW and no GV, we will need just over 900 pts total (GV +~150), so we will be approx 200 (~350) pts short with our current yr points for this trip alone (we are planning on taking more than one trip ourselves within the yr.). This brings me to Q. 3: Should I borrow points first (400 avail), or just go ahead and transfer the extra points we need now? If I transfer pts, I would still retain the option to bank my excess (original) 2007 and/or 2008 pts to ea. respective following yr. Also, I am hoping to rent my remaining 2006 points which if successful would help finance the transfer of points.

Q 4: If I borrow 2008 pts and then don't need them all, I believe I can bank my 2007 pts (assuming I meet the deadlines, incl cancellation deadlines), right? Wouldn't that essentially (although not technically) return my points to 2008?

I know we can purchase DDP if staying @ DVC. Q 5 (admittedly a completely subjective one): Is the experience of staying in DVC worth the extra cost if free dining is available (with on-site hotels)? I know the savings is not really the full cost of the DDP, as the room rate increases to rack rate, but there is still a savings of a few hundred $$ per family.

Thanks so much for your help!

Laurie

What is your use year and are you purchasing a resale or direct from Disney?

question 1a- availability - At this early stage there should be availability at OKW.
1b - yes, but do you have enough points to do so....you mention two home resorts - your 11 month windows are just for the amount of points at each home resort.

question 2 - the OKW points 'should' retain their identity. However in the past something called point morphing has occurred and points turn into whatever your main contract is. I think it is possible to have the points ID'ed as OKW points when they hit your account, but I think it requires some kind of divine intervention by MS.

question 3a -I defer to the experts on this question....too much depends on your personal situation.
3b - yes.
question 4a -yes.
4b -yes, you would have banked points in your 2008 use year which have to be used by the end of your use year.

DDP question - this answer is one of personal preference. I would prefer to stay DVC and have the luxury of space, rather then stay in a value room and have free meals. My choice is not everyone's - some people routinely stay in values with 4 - for me those days are long gone- when my kids were young I had more tolerance for less space - now I need my space more then free dinner.

Enjoy your trip!

 

[kdzgon]

Judique was kind enough to take the time to respond in detail (thank you!! ), but while reading the response I realized I may have clouded the issues too much. I'll try and at least clarify my request(s).

BTW, we purchased resale, have passed ROFR with both and we are just waiting for the closing docs "soon". I don't know what difference that will make for Sept '07, as we will close well before the 7 mo window of Feb '07 for 9/07 trip. Our use yr is Apr (both contracts), but again, as I am not looking to make ressies at my home resort I already know I am dealing with 7 mo. window at best for my own points.

Yes, if I borrow I will have enough points for any combo of rooms I am planning. (I would not have enough to book GVs at two resorts at once, so I would have to cancel and book, or transfer ressie, if that is possible.) As of Apr '07, I will have a total of 734 current points (incl 334 banked from '06) and could borrow 400 from '08 if necessary.

OK - I guess I should re-phrase some things:

Is there likely to be availability at OKW for 3 - 2 BRs + 2 - studios at the 7 mo window for a late Sept stay? Is there a decent chance of a GV (OKW) as well (same facts)?

I wanted some feedback as to if I would be entitled to make ressies at OKW if I transferred OKW points in to my account from an OKW DVC owner. (I know they "should", I know they often morph - but would I have the right to claim them as OKW and book earlier than 7 months?)

How about feedback/personal experience/common "theory"/ advantages or disadvantages of current yr transfers vs future yr borrowing? I read on another thread that borrowing one's own points is smarter, but I'm wondering what the effect would be on having a stripped contract for the next yr? I know I could borrow now and look for a point transfer in 2008, but I was wondering if there are disadvantages to transferred points, vs my own "original" points? (I really am asking about possible pitfalls re: point properties re: banking/borrowing/transfers/etc, NOT "does it make sense for me to borrow?")

As to the DDP Q.- I'm not asking if the DDP is a good choice or not - it's really a "resort value" question. If they offer "free" dining again, staying in a value resort would absolutely be less expensive. However the savings will not actually equal the cost of the plan, as our room cost will increase ("free" dining means paying rack rate) - I estimate the difference at ~$300-$350 per family. I quess the real question would be: "do you feel staying at DVC (instead of at a value resort) is worth a few hundred dollars more per family if budget is an issue (not "budget is an absolute dealbreaker", but "an issue to consider" as in less $$ for souvenirs, special events, etc.)?" (I am not evaluating a DVC purchase either but rather one planned family gathering.) I see some owners stay at values (rather than rent or transfer add'l points) to extend vacations, etc, so I was hoping for some sort of comparison between the types of stays.

Maybe I should have posted one Q at a time, but I thought they were pretty much inter-related issues.

Thanks again -

Laurie

 

[shellbelle1971]

I could use some advice/help from experienced members, please!

We are soon-to-be DVC owners (SSR and HHI), and I am in the middle of planning a family trip for late Sept '07, 21 people (incl 2- 4 yr olds and 2 - 2 yr olds), 8 rms IF individual/studios. We had been planning value & deluxe resort combos (6 + 2) with AAA or AP discounts, but now I am thinking DVC, with families renting points as necessary might be preferable. Ideally, I am looking at 3 - 2 BR units plus 2 - studios or possibly 1 GV (if avail) instead of one 2-BR. I want to try for OKW first, due to lower point requirements.

Q 1A: Any opinions as to likely availability @ OKW for choices above @ 7 mo window? 1B: Should I reserve my home resort (SSR) @ 11 months, and then try for OKW @ 7 mos?

Q 2: If I look for point transfer for extra points needed and they are OKW points, will I be able to use these pts to book now ("now" = as soon as we close & are in system) (esp for GV - assuming I obtain transfer of enough pts for room(s) booked - I know I cannot use my pts @ OKW @ 11 mos for any reason)?

If OKW and no GV, we will need just over 900 pts total (GV +~150), so we will be approx 200 (~350) pts short with our current yr points for this trip alone (we are planning on taking more than one trip ourselves within the yr.). This brings me to Q. 3: Should I borrow points first (400 avail), or just go ahead and transfer the extra points we need now? If I transfer pts, I would still retain the option to bank my excess (original) 2007 and/or 2008 pts to ea. respective following yr. Also, I am hoping to rent my remaining 2006 points which if successful would help finance the transfer of points.

Q 4: If I borrow 2008 pts and then don't need them all, I believe I can bank my 2007 pts (assuming I meet the deadlines, incl cancellation deadlines), right? Wouldn't that essentially (although not technically) return my points to 2008?

I know we can purchase DDP if staying @ DVC. Q 5 (admittedly a completely subjective one): Is the experience of staying in DVC worth the extra cost if free dining is available (with on-site hotels)? I know the savings is not really the full cost of the DDP, as the room rate increases to rack rate, but there is still a savings of a few hundred $$ per family.

Thanks so much for your help!

Laurie

Your situation sounds very similar to what we did last year, and will do again this year.

1A. We have never had trouble booking OKW at the 7 month window, except that GV availability is not likely to exist.
1B. Notwithstanding 1A above, we have always booked our home resort first and then switched at 7 months (because I'm kind of compulsive and like knowing we have a reservation done.)

2. Yes, this was exactly what we did when we were a few points short for this year's trip. It took a manual override of some sort, since we do not own at OKW, but member services handled it without any problem. In other words, we were able to use the transferred OKW points at OKW at the 11 month window, and our home resort points to book at our home resort at the 11 month window.

3. I personally prefer to transfer, since I plan to use next year's points next year! (Plus transferring points made it very easy for me to explain to each family member exactly the $ cost of their reservation.) But it's really a matter of preference. If you want an OKW GV, and OKW is not your home resort, then transferring is the best way for you to accomplish that.

4. Don't know.

5. We never get the DDP since we find it much more pleasant to have most meals "at home"--especially with a big group. One advantage to NOT getting a GV (and booking, say, a studio and a 2-bedroom instead) is that you can have several people in the group opt FOR the dining plan, and others not have to purchase it, if that is what you want. You just have to make sure all the people who want the DDP are booked into the same room.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Just a reminder if you purchase the rooms at rack rate to get free dining, you must also purchase park tickets and this is for all people staying in the room(s). Also, no guarantees that "free dining" will be offered again..

 

[kdzgon]

Thanks for your help. The GV is just a "should we try this" anyway, not a deal breaker. I thought maybe the larger area might make it easier should everyone want to gather in one place at all, but I'm not sure everyone would be OK with the overall togetherness...

I was all set to just transfer until I read that thread. I agree, it is "cleaner" to give ea. family a "total cost" figure if the points have a set cost to them. Plus, I'm thinking if they cancel for any reason, there is less guilt on my part re: lost $ and/or wasted points.

I don't want to cook while on vacation. (Actually, it's more the clean-up I don't want to get stuck with). I like the idea of a kitchenette for quick breakfast, mini meals or snacks, but I'll pass on all-out cooking. Again, this Q is really more related to value: is staying at a DVC worth an extra $350 or so per family?

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

#4: Borrowed points cannot be returned to their original year. However, if you borrow points and then have too many, so long as you are within the banking deadlines, you can indeed bank current-year points back in their place. The only disadvantage to doing this is that the 2007 points that were banked into 2008 will need to be used in your 2008 use year. Had you not done the over-borrowing, you would have had the flexibility to use the original 2008 points through the end of your 2009 use year.

 

[shellbelle1971]

Again, this Q is really more related to value: is staying at a DVC worth an extra $350 or so per family?

In my opinion, the DVC resorts are definitely worth the $350 more per family, especially if you are looking at a 2 bedroom DVC versus 2 studios in a moderate. The extra space is wonderful!

If your family would just be staying in DVC studios (versus a regular room in a moderate) it gets harder to calculate. To our family, the extras at DVC are still worth it (slightly more space, private balconies, etc.) but YMMV.

 

[kdzgon]

Just a reminder if you purchase the rooms at rack rate to get free dining, you must also purchase park tickets and this is for all people staying in the room(s). Also, no guarantees that "free dining" will be offered again..

Yes, thank you. We are going late Sept no matter what (value season, plus MNSSHP), and everyone will need tix except us (APs), but DH would not consider a stay in value resort, so we'll be at DVC either way. I know there is no guarantee, but if it is offered I know kids will want to take advantage. I think it would be great to all stay in the same area, esp with the two bedroom units, so I suspect we'll be "supplementing" either way.

 

[lizziepooh]

If your guests like to swim, the DVC resorts main pools have a waterslide which the value resorts do not have. The kitchenette in the studios comes in handy for a quick breakfast, sandwiches, snacks etc. Studios at OKW have two queen beds but other DVC resort studios have one queen bed and a sleeper sofa (some are not very comfortable.) I would be sure guests know which they are getting especially if adults will be sleeping on the sofa.

I would be sure that everyone knows the difference in cancellation policies thru Disney and the transfer of DVC points. That could make a difference on where some people prefer to stay if they know the DVC reservations are basically non-refundable. Good luck in organizing that many people. I would just be careful so you don't get stuck using your points and/or transferring in points, only to have people cancel on you.

 

[kdzgon]

If your guests like to swim, the DVC resorts main pools have a waterslide which the value resorts do not have. The kitchenette in the studios comes in handy for a quick breakfast, sandwiches, snacks etc. Studios at OKW have two queen beds but other DVC resort studios have one queen bed and a sleeper sofa (some are not very comfortable.) I would be sure guests know which they are getting especially if adults will be sleeping on the sofa.

I would be sure that everyone knows the difference in cancellation policies thru Disney and the transfer of DVC points. That could make a difference on where some people prefer to stay if they know the DVC reservations are basically non-refundable. Good luck in organizing that many people. I would just be careful so you don't get stuck using your points and/or transferring in points, only to have people cancel on you.

Your point re: cancellations is well taken - I will be sure to review the specifics very carefully with each family. It is also the biggest reason I am undecided whether or not to rent points. Five of the seven other families are our kids (4 mine, 1 his). We have traveled with mine before and they have a good track record thus far, and DH's DD is excited to be going. I have given everyone some preliminary minimum numbers, so budgets are already in place. I am also not transferring in (or borrowing) points without some $$ in hand, kids or no kids.

I'm hoping for 2 BRs rather than studios for the families with kids. If successful, the studios will be for adult couples only.