Help need help on purchasing camera for night shots

[wisbucky]

Sorry - when someone writes in their original post that they don't want a large camera to lug around, it usually means that they aren't looking to go in the DSLR category since it's larger, bulkier and harder to lug around.

Here is the deal...
The Canon G11 that I rec'd is a bridge camera, meaning that you have a lot more in terms of manual controls. You can also shoot RAW with that camera giving you more in terms of control in your post processing. It is also more compact, able to fit into a pocket, and produces outstanding images. It's in the price range you just listed. It does have auto settings.

Otherwise, if you are looking to jump into the DSLR category, there is a array of cameras to choose from in the entry level models. However, you still need to educate yourself in terms of knowing what you are doing in order to make them work. In fact, you images could very well turn out WORSE than current if you don't know what you are doing. How would you feel about plunking down $1000 for worse images? And it's not the camera's fault... it is totally the person behind the camera.

Popular models include the Canon lines - XS, XSi, T1i, etc. The Nikon line includes - D40, D40x, D3000, D5000, etc. There are others in both the Olympus, Sony and Pentax brands, but since I'm not familiar with those brands, I have to leave the rec's to someone else who knows a tad more than I. Those all (mostly) fit into the budget you've put out there.

Everyone will give you the same advice though - go to the camera store and hold and feel these cameras. Some say that Canon menus and ergonomics are intuitive to them. Some say that Nikon is. It's not the camera - it's the individual that makes the difference. So hold, touch, feel, see, and play around with the menus and shooting modes. All of that should help you make a decision.

Simply put...
What you want to do is difficult. It's actually some pretty medium to advanced photography principles involved - especially when you are talking about moving objects such as a parade while sitting in the dark. There isn't a single camera out there that is going to be small, be able to shoot on auto and come up with some of the pictures you see out there. The people who get those pictures have spent a lot of time studying and understanding the fundamentals of photography and then implementing them.

I'm not saying this to discourage you in the least. In fact, I hope that it will help guide you to learn more and practice more to accomplish your goals! It just sounds from the tone of your posts that you want the camera to accomplish it all and I'm just telling you that there is a portion of this equation that is camera and a portion of the equation that is you.

Everyone on this board is EXTREMELY helpful in terms of providing information and guidance in learning how to shoot a parade in the dark. So if you want to learn - ask the questions and people will be more than happy to help.

Just understand that getting the camera is only the first step. From there, it's up to you as there won't be a point-n-shoot or DSLR that will automatically get what you are looking for in terms of image.

Hope that helps!

What I mean in terms of a big bulky camera is if it is one that is so heavy my arms hurt every time i lift it up then it is not worth it. But I would like a camera that has auto settings as well so if I have someone else shooting a photo for me I can easiy just hand them the camera. I understand there is a lot of practice with each camera. I have had my t200 for over 1. 5 years. I have done so much practice with it and it turns out it is the camera design and not me. So I just dont want to take that chance down the road again. The canon G11 sounds very promising but yet if there is going to be some draw backs i would like to know now before I buy it.

 

[disneyboy2003]

What you want to do is difficult. It's actually some pretty medium to advanced photography principles involved - especially when you are talking about moving objects such as a parade while sitting in the dark.

I agree with Chikabowa. One thing to realize about the "Auto" setting (regardless of which camera you get) is that "Auto" is pretty good at easy, daytime photos.

But when it comes to trickier scenes--like the dark Spectromagic parade, indoor sports, concert photography, etc--the camera doesn't know that you're trying to take a good picture of a small moving bright object in a low-light / dark setting. So the camera "automatically" guesses that you want the brighten the entire dark scene, and as a result, your bright subject becomes either way too bright or really really blurry.

That's why in these trickier low-light situations, you've got to tell the camera what you're trying to take a picture of (ie. you control the camera settings by using "Manual" mode).

A lot of folks on this board really recommend the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. You might also try one of the Dummies books, too (like "Digital Photography for Dummies"). I'm sure it covers the basics of photography, like aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc--the settings you'll be controlling in "Manual" mode.

 

[wisbucky]

I agree with Chikabowa. One thing to realize about the "Auto" setting (regardless of which camera you get) is that "Auto" is pretty good at easy, daytime photos.

But when it comes to trickier scenes--like the dark Spectromagic parade, indoor sports, concert photography, etc--the camera doesn't know that you're trying to take a good picture of a small moving bright object in a low-light / dark setting. So the camera "automatically" guesses that you want the brighten the entire dark scene, and as a result, your bright subject becomes either way too bright or really really blurry.

That's why in these trickier low-light situations, you've got to tell the camera what you're trying to take a picture of (ie. you control the camera settings by using "Manual" mode).

A lot of folks on this board really recommend the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. You might also try one of the Dummies books, too (like "Digital Photography for Dummies"). I'm sure it covers the basics of photography, like aperture, shutter speed, ISO, etc--the settings you'll be controlling in "Manual" mode.

Oh gosh I wouldnt expect someone to take a photo for me in the night on an auto setting. Just that lets say we are outside and during the day and someone takes a photo of my husband and I, I would like the camera to have an auto setting. I know the camera can not have an auto setting to work in low light settings. Guess I probably worded that wrong.

 

[Chikabowa]

What I mean in terms of a big bulky camera is if it is one that is so heavy my arms hurt every time i lift it up then it is not worth it. But I would like a camera that has auto settings as well so if I have someone else shooting a photo for me I can easiy just hand them the camera. I understand there is a lot of practice with each camera. I have had my t200 for over 1. 5 years. I have done so much practice with it and it turns out it is the camera design and not me. So I just dont want to take that chance down the road again. The canon G11 sounds very promising but yet if there is going to be some draw backs i would like to know now before I buy it.

Of course there are drawbacks. There are to ANY camera. I shoot with one of Nikon's top-of-the-line cameras. There are STILL drawbacks.

All of the cameras I listed above have auto settings, so that shouldn't be a question.

There is no perfect solution... and really and honestly... you can't find those drawbacks on a message board. Sure, we can tell you that the Nikon D80, after ISO 400 gets a lot of noise, but what we can't tell you is - Does this matter to you? Do you shoot in situations where you need more ISO range? What kind of lenses do you have to mitigate the light-capabilities of this particular camera?

Additionally, for every drawback I might list about a Canon XTi, someone else will come back and say they don't notice, don't care or even like the drawback I've listed. It's just not a fair comparison.

Again, the best thing you can do is research, figure out what elements are important to you in terms of equipment needs, and then do a little more research and then go to the store and try it out.

You'd HATE my camera. It makes your arms hurt to hold it up. It's bulky and heavy. But dang... I have control in my exposures that most people can only dream about. So obviously I've weighed what is important to me and what isn't and then made a determination based on those factors.

So you really have to build your own pro's and con's list about each model. We can suggest models until you have a list 100 cameras long. But only you can then take that information and decipher it, apply it to your personal needs/goals/wants/desires, educate yourself and then move forward with a purchase.

There is no perfect camera - it's just a tool like a hammer.

 

[wisbucky]

Okay how about I post what I am looking for on a camera and maybe some folks can give me a suggestion on a certain camera.

I would like a light weight camera
A built in flash if possible
Looking to shots of the castle, parade inside rides and eventually would like to do close up of flowers
A camera that has easy to read menues
A touch screen menu
Easy control buttons to see.

Does this help.

 

[Bstanley]

I'm wrestling with a similar decision - a G11 or a DSLR. Mostly for low light (ie. inside rides) and it looks like small and low light do not go together.

The pictures below point out the issue (images copyright Digital Photography Review website)

:

If the outer frame were a 35mm negative the sensor in your T200 (1/2.5 sensor) is about the size of the green rectangle.

If the outer frame were a 35mm negative the sensor in a 'starter' DSLR is about the size of the aqua rectangle.

The G11 sensor is slightly smaller than halfway between the two (1/1.7). In this case bigger is better - it allows MUCH greater ability to sense light.

As to the weight - according to published specifications your T200 weighs 5.7 ozs, a G11 weighs 13 ozs and a Rebel Ti weighs 18.5 ozs. So go pick up a pound of dried beans from the pantry and compare it to your T200.

Sorry, but to this point at least, such a camera does not exist.

 

[VVFF]

I personally think the OP's best bet is the Canon S90. It has a bit better low light capabilities than the G11 and is smaller and more user friendly as well.

 

[Bstanley]

Yes, I absolutely agree.

I got distracted by my own G11 fascination.

 

[mom2rtk]

Nothing beats a tripod for low light. If you don't have one, see if you can lean against something or use something to stabilize it on. Also, many lower end cameras will have "burst" mode. Try this. If you take several in quick succession, the odds are better that one will turn out.

Also, you can try the "night portrait" mode on your P & S if you are within your camera's flash range (very small, around 10 feet on many models). This will fire the flash AND leave the shutter open longer. But you still run some risk of camera shake.

Your best bet is still a DSLR and a tripod:

 

[wisbucky]

Hello all
I thought I would let you all know I did some looking at cameras tonight and I have fallen in love with the Sony A330. I did look at the A380 and A550. But before I commit to buying it can some folks be kind enough to give me some helpful advice regarding these cameras. Maybe some insight as to positives and the negatives.

 

[Steve's Girl]

I'm not familiar with Sony cameras so I can't comment on the particular camera you are looking at. For low-light photography, a DSLR is clearly the winner due to the sensor size as PPs have already been mentioned. However, you may still be disappointed with the kit lens. When I bought my first DSLR, I also bought a relatively inexpensive 50mm prime lens. This lens lets in about 4 times as much light as the standard kit lens and really makes a huge difference in low-light situations.

 

[pixie08]

I'm not familiar with Sony cameras so I can't comment on the particular camera you are looking at. For low-light photography, a DSLR is clearly the winner due to the sensor size as PPs have already been mentioned. However, you may still be disappointed with the kit lens. When I bought my first DSLR, I also bought a relatively inexpensive 50mm prime lens. This lens lets in about 4 times as much light as the standard kit lens and really makes a huge difference in low-light situations.

i agree it is about the lens. The standard kit lens is decent to start but terrible in low light. For my canon I am buying a little nifty fifty which is cheap ($100 or so) and probably the body is a bit flimsy compared to pro lenses but great for low light.

I am not sure if any p&s really have good low light conditions???

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Ok, I can comment on the A330 etc. It is certainly capable of doing what you want. For getting night time parade shots you would still want to get a "fast" lens (as you would with any of the brands). The Sigma 30 1.4, the new Sony 50mm 1.8 or a used Minolta autofocus 50mm 1.7 would all work out fine. The A330 and A380 have been designed to help P&S photogs transition to DSLR's with help in the menus so you may find that helpful.

The A550 (and also the A500 - I don't know if they had that camera but it's $200 less than the A550 b/c it doesn't shoot quite so many frames per second and has 12.3 megapixels compared to 14.2 on the A550) has a newer sensor and appears to have very good high ISO capabilities. With your desire for night shots etc. that require high ISO I would give an edge to the A500 or A550 over the A3xx's. You still would want to add one of the lenses I listed above.

Personally I find the Sony's very intuitive and easy to use.

 

[PaulD]

I would suggest that before you go out and buy a new camera to make sure that you are using the camera that you already own to its' fullest potential. I agree that there are a lot of cameras out there that are much more capable than what you already own but that doesn't meant that your current camera can't do what you want it to do.

I went onto the Sony website and downloaded the manual for your camera. As I suspected it has a night shot mode and a night shot portrait mode. So does pretty much every current camera made. By using one of these modes the shutter is left open much longer allowing the camera to capture more light and produce a night shot that is probably more like what you expect.

Get out your manual, read pages 43 and 44, and try using these modes (the ones with the moon). The manual suggests using a tripod as everyone here has already suggested. Experiment with these modes and see if they do what you want before spending a bunch of money looking for something that does it better. With such a small camera you can easily carry around a very small pocketable tripod that will do the job. These can be had very cheaply (as little as $10).

The pdf for the manual is at: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DSCT70.pdf

Also, while I agree that learning the basics of exposure will always benefit the photographer I also think it's important to realize that there are a lot of people out there who just want the camera to take a photo for them. There's nothing wrong with this and, quite frankly, I think they far outnumber us photo nerds. Whether we like it or not, the auto modes generally do a reasonably good job for the average user. I like to use manual modes but I don't expect that everyone else should do the same.

So, give it a shot before you spend more money. You may be happy with your current camera and avoid the aggravation of finding out that a newer camera isn't any easier to work with.

 

[wisbucky]

I would suggest that before you go out and buy a new camera to make sure that you are using the camera that you already own to its' fullest potential. I agree that there are a lot of cameras out there that are much more capable than what you already own but that doesn't meant that your current camera can't do what you want it to do.

I went onto the Sony website and downloaded the manual for your camera. As I suspected it has a night shot mode and a night shot portrait mode. So does pretty much every current camera made. By using one of these modes the shutter is left open much longer allowing the camera to capture more light and produce a night shot that is probably more like what you expect.

Get out your manual, read pages 43 and 44, and try using these modes (the ones with the moon). The manual suggests using a tripod as everyone here has already suggested. Experiment with these modes and see if they do what you want before spending a bunch of money looking for something that does it better. With such a small camera you can easily carry around a very small pocketable tripod that will do the job. These can be had very cheaply (as little as $10).

The pdf for the manual is at: http://www.docs.sony.com/release/DSCT70.pdf

Also, while I agree that learning the basics of exposure will always benefit the photographer I also think it's important to realize that there are a lot of people out there who just want the camera to take a photo for them. There's nothing wrong with this and, quite frankly, I think they far outnumber us photo nerds. Whether we like it or not, the auto modes generally do a reasonably good job for the average user. I like to use manual modes but I don't expect that everyone else should do the same.

So, give it a shot before you spend more money. You may be happy with your current camera and avoid the aggravation of finding out that a newer camera isn't any easier to work with.

Thanks for the great help. But I have tried those settings. Taking a photo at night of any sort is almost impossible. I like to be able to just take a photo holding my camera of anything but it is basically useless. I have tried to settings every which way with no luck.

 

[PaulD]

Thanks for the great help. But I have tried those settings. Taking a photo at night of any sort is almost impossible. I like to be able to just take a photo holding my camera of anything but it is basically useless. I have tried to settings every which way with no luck.

Take a look at the following photo:

This is a night shot taken with your same camera (Sony Cybershot DSC-T200). I found it with a quick search on Flickr.

I'm just trying to help you avoid the disappointment of spending $500 and then finding out you're still not getting the photos you want. I'm not saying it's the best camera for night shooting but I think it has more ability than you realize.

Let us know if you have trouble duplicating these results and we can probably help you with that. Good luck!

 

[disneyboy2003]

That's a really stunning photo, especially considering it came from a point-n-shoot camera!

With a little know-how, you can pretty much make any camera take similarly stunning night shots...at least, within the camera's limitations.

I'm not sure if that camera has manual settings, but if it did, the photographer probably used a low ISO, longer shutter speed, wider aperture (smaller f-number), and placed the camera on a tripod.

Or, the camera was probably on some sort of "night mode" setting, but still required a tripod.


Oops...I just re-read some of PaulD's posts, and looks like he said the exact same thing.

 

[wisbucky]

Take a look at the following photo:

This is a night shot taken with your same camera (Sony Cybershot DSC-T200). I found it with a quick search on Flickr.

I'm just trying to help you avoid the disappointment of spending $500 and then finding out you're still not getting the photos you want. I'm not saying it's the best camera for night shooting but I think it has more ability than you realize.

Let us know if you have trouble duplicating these results and we can probably help you with that. Good luck!

Thanks again for taking time to help out. I would post some of the photos I have taken but they are pretty bad and I have deleted most of them. I took the ones that were bad into Sonystyle and showed them. They indicated the camera is just not designed for low light shooting. What I want the most is the ability to stand on the curb while the parade goes by and taking photos. But this has been pretty much out of the question. With a camera that allows more light in I was told those photos of the parade I want would turn out much better. If I have to use a tri-pod for every night shot I take with the current camera it is once again useless to me.

 

[Steve's Girl]

Take a look at the following photo:

This is a night shot taken with your same camera (Sony Cybershot DSC-T200). I found it with a quick search on Flickr.

I'm just trying to help you avoid the disappointment of spending $500 and then finding out you're still not getting the photos you want. I'm not saying it's the best camera for night shooting but I think it has more ability than you realize.

Let us know if you have trouble duplicating these results and we can probably help you with that. Good luck!

OK, that is a nice photo. And you're correct in that most point and shoots on a tripod, with a low ISO and long shutter can take this type of photo. However, what you are missing is that the OP specifically said that she wanted to be able to take photos of night parades and other moving objects in low light. A tripod and long shutter is not the answer here. A bigger sensor is needed to be able to let in more light during a relatively short shutter speed. Using a long shutter speed will just result in motion blur and while that can occasionally create a cool effect, I don't think that is what the OP is looking for in Spectro shots.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

What I want the most is the ability to stand on the curb while the parade goes by and taking photos. But this has been pretty much out of the question. With a camera that allows more light in I was told those photos of the parade I want would turn out much better. If I have to use a tri-pod for every night shot I take with the current camera it is once again useless to me.

What you want would be difficult for even the best photographer with the finest equipment out there.

You can't get away from the fact that the camera has to stay still, especially when your shooting a moving subject. That = tripod, unfortunately - for all of us.

Nobody said it has to be a big tripod, though. You can use a $10 tripod from WalMart. Or a gorillapod. Or the top of a trashcan. But you have to keep the camera perfectly still. There aren't a lot of ways around it (well, maybe a few that the most skilled with the best equipment know ).

Learning to work with that alone will change your photography world. Do that before you invest in any new anything.

The simple answer here is that improving your photography SKILLS will help you get the shots you want moreso than running out and buying a new expensive camera.

If once you work with that for a while you still aren't able to get the types of shots you want, then it's time to look at new equipment.