Help me marshal some arguments, please?

Everyone here made some great points,but I would like to add that we were looking at the other free(ebay) timeshares and what really turned me off was the very high maint/taxes.

We will pay 40% less with our DVC points(maint/taxes), but we had to pay a lot up front.
You have to do the math on each deal, rather than making assumptions and sweeping generalizations.

We have two timeshares at present. Our OKW cost us about $2 per point to acquire + $4.97 dues - about $7.00 per point during 2011.

Our Wyndham Great Smoky Mountains timeshare cost us about 20 cents per thousand points to acquire (assuming we keep it 10 years) and our annual maintenance fees are $4.28 per K.

Using those figures, I recently compared a stay (same week) in a 1 BR at Wyndham Bonnet Creek vs OKW (our personal favorite, and coincidently the least expensive DVC resort).

The OKW villa priced out at about $189 per night (27 points X $7); the Bonnet Creek villa is about $40 per night (9K X $4.48). If you take a fluke out of the Bonnet Creek pricing, it would be about $67 per night. (but we're paying $40, because we benefited from the fluke)
 
In your situation, I would only consider buying enough points to cover your stays at DVC resorts, and either pay out of pocket for your other vacations, or purchase another timeshare for those vacations.

DVC allows you to bank points up to one year, and borrow points from the year ahead. So, let's say you plan to stay at DVC resorts every other year and you anticipate your point cost for each vacation to be around 200 points. You buy a 100 point contract, bank the points in the off year, and you've got 200 points for your vacation.

The reason I recommend that you only buy points to cover DVC stays is this: DVC only offers a limited selection of RCI resorts for trade, and not all are up to DVC standards. The really popular locations can be very difficult to get, and require a lot of advance planning. As in years.

But most importantly, you can buy timeshares that trade into the full selection of RCI resorts for a tiny fraction of the cost of DVC.

Look at it this way. If you plan to do DVC and RCI in alternating years, half of the cost of your membership will be for RCI resorts. You can cover those vacations for THOUSANDS less with another timeshare than with DVC.

This is well said, I totally agree with this comment.
 
You have to do the math on each deal, rather than making assumptions and sweeping generalizations.

We have two timeshares at present. Our OKW cost us about $2 per point to acquire + $4.97 dues - about $7.00 per point during 2011.

Our Wyndham Great Smoky Mountains timeshare cost us about 20 cents per thousand points to acquire (assuming we keep it 10 years) and our annual maintenance fees are $4.28 per K.

Using those figures, I recently compared a stay (same week) in a 1 BR at Wyndham Bonnet Creek vs OKW (our personal favorite, and coincidently the least expensive DVC resort).

The OKW villa priced out at about $189 per night (27 points X $7); the Bonnet Creek villa is about $40 per night (9K X $4.48). If you take a fluke out of the Bonnet Creek pricing, it would be about $67 per night. (but we're paying $40, because we benefited from the fluke)

Well sure there is some cheap places out there!

I can get one in South beach Miami for $400 a week.

We just rented a 4 bedroom home with private pool and hot tub for $90 per day 10 miles from Disney. Can't tell you how much we loved it!

We decided to go with the Disney name!
 
DVC info states that you can get a 1 bedroom for 160 points at 500 locations.
Actually, exchanging through DVC/RCI there are about 600 locations. However, not all timeshares have studios or one-bedrooms. Many have only 2-BR and up.

The other issue is that you have to see if those 600 locations are places you would want to stay. If there happens to be a nice resort where you want to go anyway, you might get a good exchange. But I can tell you that with my FULL RCI account through Wyndham (access to all 6,500+ RCI resorts), there are still a LOT of places where I can't find a decent exchange possibility.

So for us that is only about $600 in Maint/taxes. Seems like a great deal?
Well, I think you have to also consider your acquisition cost to get an accurate number. But I think there are probably some decent DVC/RCI exchanges...and some that are not good values. The key is whether you are satisfied with what you get...and I see a lot more posts from owners who have done actual exchanges and are happy, than those who were not happy.

One of the best things I found is those that joined back in 1992 paid around $55 per point and they are selling them today for more then that!

Not bad for a timeshare!
Yeah, and if that were the end of the story, it would be magical. :rolleyes1

But what about the folks who bought SSR or AKV 3-4 years ago (or even BLT) and are now selling for 50-70% of what they paid?

People who bought DVC in 1992 made out well, no question. But that is not going to be typical of the vast majority of those of us who own NOW.

Don't get me wrong, DVC is a great timeshare (IMHO), but no timeshare should be considered an investment. It's just an expense.
 

Everyone here made some great points,but I would like to add that we were looking at the other free(ebay) timeshares and what really turned me off was the very high maint/taxes.

We will pay 40% less with our DVC points(maint/taxes), but we had to pay a lot up front.

DVC info states that you can get a 1 bedroom for 160 points at 500 locations.

So for us that is only about $600 in Maint/taxes. Seems like a great deal?

Of course for some places it would be better to rent those points for $1600 and stay cheaper?

There is lots of great info here if you search.

One of the best things I found is those that joined back in 1992 paid around $55 per point and they are selling them today for more then that!

Not bad for a timeshare!
As noted, the resort has to have studio and 1 BR units for the cost to be 160 points. Also, there must be availability AND the DVC member must be the next one in line on the Wait List, a tall order the way trade power works with RCI. I think if you look closer, you'll see that in general, DVC dues are 30-50% higher than most comparable timeshares and that when looking from an exchange standpoint, the cost for DVC is often 10-20 times that of many other options when considering both up front and yearly costs.

As for trading in RCI, there are so many variables that make it an unreasonable expectation and a poor reason to buy into DVC. These include the relatively poor trade power of Orlando, up front costs, yearly costs, limited list of RCI resort, lack of direct RCI access including online access and lack of potential to trade up. For many situations one can even buy into another system and trade into DVC for pennies on the dollar. An extreme example I know, but a real life one. Last year we were in Cabo for 2 weeks. Total cost about $6-700 for the rooms (1 BR & 2 BR) including all direct and indirect trading costs. Had we traded DVC points, the cost would have literally been 1500 points. Even at the conservative value of $10 a point rental, that's quite a difference.

Also, one can't reasonable just take the yearly dues without considering up front costs though even ignoring the dramatic difference in acquisition costs, I can get a 2 BR consistently in Orlando at a resort as nice or nicer than those of DVC (and often at DVC) for about $3-400 per week AND pick up those other RCI benefits that I pointed out one loses with DVC.

The absolute best option for one looking at going to the park locations routinely and who values staying on property, is to buy just enough DVC points to satisfy their Disney needs, with a small cushion (how small depends on specifics but usually 10% is sufficient). Then look at other options for non Disney trips. There are even cheaper ways for the flexible and adventuresome to approach this issue.
 
For many situations one can even buy into another system and trade into DVC for pennies on the dollar. An extreme example I know, but a real life one.
Yep. Over on the TUG Wyndham board, we were looking at some DVC availability the other day. Here's what I found, just looking for SSR or OKW:

"Looking at one bedrooms only at Saratoga Springs and Old Key West, I found the following:

SSR - 6 1BR's in August and one in Sept

OKW - 2 1BR's in July, 10 in August, and 5 in September"


There were also a sprinkling of other DVC villas, one BCV and a couple of VWL as well, but I didn't write down those details.

Now to understand that, you have to understand that Wyndham is a fairly weak trader, and yet we're seeing a good bit of availability during a quiet period.

OTOH, the fact that I can see some RCI availability for DVC also means that some DVC owners have been successful at exchanging OUT. (I think -- is that right, Dean? Or is DVC just depositing their own inventory?)
 
Please find me 2 bedroom resort near Disney that are just as nice and only cost $300 per year in dues and taxes.

PLEASE!

Remember just as nice or better!

Only $300 per year!

PLEASE!
 
We can't decide for you what is best for your circumstances. Besides the cost to buy in there are the added costs of meal, tickets and entertainment to add to EACH trip you make! There are also, many reasons people may be selling their DVC properties.

But I did notice you mentioned going to the beach in NC. If you'd be willing to head to SC - there is Hilton Head (HHI). There is also Vero Beach (VB) which are not theme park related at all. And these would NOT be a trade just usual use of your points.

BTW - I have taken my kids out of school on many occasions for enjoyment! They need to realize that school is NOT the be all and end all of education. My kids have learned a lot by traveling!

Also, the is my 2nd year of scoring a 2br - BLT lake view the last week of August. Our school doesn't start until after Labor Day.
 
Please find me 2 bedroom resort near Disney that are just as nice and only cost $300 per year in dues and taxes.

PLEASE!

Remember just as nice or better!

Only $300 per year!

PLEASE!
I can do it most any time of the year with a mild amount of planning for a week per year. Solid choices would be 3 of the Marriott's, 3 Hilton's and the Fountains. Close would be Vistana Villages, at least 1 more Marriott and Wyndham's Bonnet Creek, a little below, but not that much, would be parts of the Holiday Inn, any remaining Marriott's and Vistana as well as parts of Summer Bay. Some might throw in the Worldmark and Villages resorts, but I would not.

Obviously it depends on HOW you measure them. From a theming standpoint, DVC is generally above all else. From a room standpoint, DVC is middle of the pack, lower if you include room size in the equation, from a pool standpoint (other than SAB), DVC is lower tier.

I personally have gotten multiple 2 & 3 BR units at resorts at Marriott's Grande Vista, Bluegreen's Fountains and Hilton's Tuscany. ALL resorts that side by side are at least the equal of the DVC resorts. Costs in all cases at or under $300 per week including exchange fees and indirect fees. I just did it last week for around $250 for a 1 BR at Grande Vista. I also just returned from Daytona, Bike week, 2 nights in a 2550 sq ft 4 BR presidential suite with a pool table and video room for under $175.
 
I can do it most any time of the year with a mild amount of planning for a week per year. Solid choices would be 3 of the Marriott's, 3 Hilton's and the Fountains. Close would be Vistana Villages, at least 1 more Marriott and Wyndham's Bonnet Creek, a little below, but not that much, would be parts of the Holiday Inn, any remaining Marriott's and Vistana as well as parts of Summer Bay. Some might throw in the Worldmark and Villages resorts, but I would not.

Obviously it depends on HOW you measure them. From a theming standpoint, DVC is generally above all else. From a room standpoint, DVC is middle of the pack, lower if you include room size in the equation, from a pool standpoint (other than SAB), DVC is lower tier.

I personally have gotten multiple 2 & 3 BR units at resorts at Marriott's Grande Vista, Bluegreen's Fountains and Hilton's Tuscany. ALL resorts that side by side are at least the equal of the DVC resorts. Costs in all cases at or under $300 per week including exchange fees and indirect fees. I just did it last week for around $250 for a 1 BR at Grande Vista. I also just returned from Daytona, Bike week, 2 nights in a 2550 sq ft 4 BR presidential suite with a pool table and video room for under $175.

:worship:

Dean, as always, I bow to the master! (and come begging when I have a question)
 
I can do it most any time of the year with a mild amount of planning for a week per year. Solid choices would be 3 of the Marriott's, 3 Hilton's and the Fountains. Close would be Vistana Villages, at least 1 more Marriott and Wyndham's Bonnet Creek, a little below, but not that much, would be parts of the Holiday Inn, any remaining Marriott's and Vistana as well as parts of Summer Bay. Some might throw in the Worldmark and Villages resorts, but I would not.

Obviously it depends on HOW you measure them. From a theming standpoint, DVC is generally above all else. From a room standpoint, DVC is middle of the pack, lower if you include room size in the equation, from a pool standpoint (other than SAB), DVC is lower tier.

I personally have gotten multiple 2 & 3 BR units at resorts at Marriott's Grande Vista, Bluegreen's Fountains and Hilton's Tuscany. ALL resorts that side by side are at least the equal of the DVC resorts. Costs in all cases at or under $300 per week including exchange fees and indirect fees. I just did it last week for around $250 for a 1 BR at Grande Vista. I also just returned from Daytona, Bike week, 2 nights in a 2550 sq ft 4 BR presidential suite with a pool table and video room for under $175.

We are talking about buying a timeshare with 2 bedrooms with dues being around $300 per year?

Not sure WHAT you are talking about??????????????????

I just rented a 4 bedroom, 3 bath private home with pool and hot tub for $90 a day!

Of course there are deals out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much is your timeshare costing you every year? Then we add the dues to join? Then the exchange fees?
 
We are talking about buying a timeshare with 2 bedrooms with dues being around $300 per year?

Not sure WHAT you are talking about??????????????????

I just rented a 4 bedroom, 3 bath private home with pool and hot tub for $90 a day!

Of course there are deals out there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How much is your timeshare costing you every year? Then we add the dues to join? Then the exchange fees?
I'm not sure where you got that as I have ONLY been talking about a week for exchange but if you want to look at ownership cost comparisons, we can certainly do that. I'd say my total costs are within your parameters on a per week basis but not for a single week. Here are some rough numbers assuming resale and appropriate self education and centerning on Orlando or points mini systems that were on the lists I mentioned earlier and for a 2 BR. I'll give you the ones I know and let others fill in for other systems like Hilton or Wyndham. Of course there are many variables that could vary by maybe 10% for most of these options. Purschase includes all costs including closing.

System Purchase Yearly fees Exchange company membership
DVC - $18K $1500 none
Bluegreen $500-1000 $8-900 none
RCI points $1K $700 $120 (fees vary by resort)
Marriott $1-3K $1000 none to $84

IF you want to look at it in terms of owning and trading to Orlando for a 2 BR, add $100-150 exchange fee for many options but subtract the yearly fees and up front costs because you can buy cheaper and trades a studio for a 2 BR in most instances. There is no way to make DVC cost effective from a dollar standpoint from the timeshare side. The only way to do it is to compare to cash on property.
 
I'm not sure where you got that as I have ONLY been talking about a week for exchange but if you want to look at ownership cost comparisons, we can certainly do that. I'd say my total costs are within your parameters on a per week basis but not for a single week. Here are some rough numbers assuming resale and appropriate self education and centerning on Orlando or points mini systems that were on the lists I mentioned earlier and for a 2 BR. I'll give you the ones I know and let others fill in for other systems like Hilton or Wyndham. Of course there are many variables that could vary by maybe 10% for most of these options. Purschase includes all costs including closing.

System Purchase Yearly fees Exchange company membership
DVC - $18K $1500 none
Bluegreen $500-1000 $8-900 none
RCI points $1K $700 $120 (fees vary by resort)
Marriott $1-3K $1000 none to $84

IF you want to look at it in terms of owning and trading to Orlando for a 2 BR, add $100-150 exchange fee for many options but subtract the yearly fees and up front costs because you can buy cheaper and trades a studio for a 2 BR in most instances. There is no way to make DVC cost effective from a dollar standpoint from the timeshare side. The only way to do it is to compare to cash on property.

So when i posted it would cost me $600 in dues for DCV and I could trade it for any 1 bedroom on RCI in the world I guess it is a good deal?

It only cost 160 DVC points. It is on DVC site!
 
We are talking about buying a timeshare with 2 bedrooms with dues being around $300 per year?
Wyndham 189,000 point contract, $1 to buy on eBay with free closing. 2 Bedroom for $280 for a week maintenance fees. No exchange fees because you're booking internally in Wyndham.

How much is your timeshare costing you every year?
Depends on what you own, and where within that system you own.
Then we add the dues to join?
No we don't. You don't understand the terminology. The annual dues (AKA maintenance fees) are the annual costs to own. The acquisition costs are a different animal, but in my example above, a total of $1 on eBay with free closing.
Then the exchange fees?
You would only pay an exchange fee if you exchange OUT of the system you own, which most experienced timeshare folks will tell you is never your best value. In the overbuilt Orlando market, there is no need to exchange.
 
So when i posted it would cost me $600 in dues for DCV and I could trade it for any 1 bedroom on RCI in the world I guess it is a good deal?

It only cost 160 DVC points. It is on DVC site!
No offense, but you obviously do not understand a thing about either DVC, or timeshares generally, or timeshare exchanges.

You should invest a little time and do some research, and then come back here and ask intelligent questions. There is a LOT of help to be had here, but it's impossible if you don't understand even the basics.
 
Wyndham 189,000 point contract, $1 to buy on eBay with free closing. 2 Bedroom for $280 for a week maintenance fees. No exchange fees because you're booking internally in Wyndham.

Depends on what you own, and where within that system you own.No we don't. You don't understand the terminology. The annual dues (AKA maintenance fees) are the annual costs to own. The acquisition costs are a different animal, but in my example above, a total of $1 on eBay with free closing. You would only pay an exchange fee if you exchange OUT of the system you own, which most experienced timeshare folks will tell you is never your best value. In the overbuilt Orlando market, there is no need to exchange.

All the wyndam 2 bedrooms I find are $6-900 per year. Not sure were that one is located, but maybe not so easy to trade?

Also I have owned a nice time share for over 10 years and have seen the cost go from $500 to $850 as it seems most have!

That is why now I have bought DVC as they keep increases very low!
 
No offense, but you obviously do not understand a thing about either DVC, or timeshares generally, or timeshare exchanges.

You should invest a little time and do some research, and then come back here and ask intelligent questions. There is a LOT of help to be had here, but it's impossible if you don't understand even the basics.

http://www.dvcexplorer.com/dreambook/staticAssets/pdfs/DVC_WorldPassport.pdf?startMagic=[type+Function]&stopMagic=[type+Function]&pageWidth=450&pageHeight=600

It clearly reads RCI 1 BEDROOM RED WEEK 160 POINTS?

Is DVC lying?

Oh and please don't try and insult members. I believe it is against the rules. But you are smart and already knew that right?
 
So when i posted it would cost me $600 in dues for DCV and I could trade it for any 1 bedroom on RCI in the world I guess it is a good deal?

It only cost 160 DVC points. It is on DVC site!
Not in my book, if you want to buy a BMW and trade for a Chevy, that's up to you. The up front costs of 160 DVC points is around $7-8K minimum depending on home resort and the yearly fees on 160 points is more in the $800 range which is a 1 BR, not a 2 BR for exchange (270 for a 2 BR), higher dues at many of the other resorts. On top of that, the negatives to owning DVC to trade are numerous but include the fact that DVC limits you to around 10% of the RCI resorts, you must only work through DVC which means you don't have online access and can't contact RCI directly, you can't trade up in unit size plus the cancelation policies through DVC are more negative than RCI directly. I'd rather have something that cost me $500 or less, trades better, gives me far more and better exchange options IF exchanging is what I'm pursuing. OTOH, those of us who also trade through RCI are very happy to see you exchange.

All the wyndam 2 bedrooms I find are $6-900 per year. Not sure were that one is located, but maybe not so easy to trade?

Also I have owned a nice time share for over 10 years and have seen the cost go from $500 to $850 as it seems most have!

That is why now I have bought DVC as they keep increases very low!
It's much easier to control yearly costs when you're 30-40% higher than everyone else to start with. No one argues that DVC has a lot of good points, exchanging routinely is definitely not one of them. I'm betting you bought your other timeshare directly from the company and overpaid for it. Many people have including many who are now very educated in timeshares. I gave you some real world information, but only a taste of what one can do if they are educated in timeshares and position themselves correctly. Here are a few other large trips we've taken over the past few years and our associated costs including ALL indirect timeshare expenses to include exchange fees, prorated acquisition costs, maint fees directly related, etc. I'll include FF miles tickets as many of those miles were garnered from timeshare related activities as well. All trips are inclusive of all direct expenses including air, rental cars, airport shuttles, food, timeshare occupancy taxes, dining out and activities. They do not include gifts bought for others including Xmas and birthday pressents.

Hawaii 2002 2 weeks for 4- Two 1 BR units at Kaanapali Beach Club Maui and a 2 BR at the then Embassy resort on Kauai. around $2300
Puerto Vallarta 2003 for 4 around $2200
2008 HI 15 nights (Westin Maui, Wyndham Beachwalk), first class tickets - $2500
2008 1 week Gatlinburg, 9 units 2 Br or larger for 35 people where we provided all accommodations - roughly $2200

2009 Aruba 11 nights 1 BR around $2300
2010 Cabo 14 nights $2100-2200, would have been 1500 DVC points, not 430 (2 BR one week).
2010 in Sept we had 9 units between BCV and BWV all gotten through RCI (six 1 BR and three 2 BR). Total cost around $3000-3500 for our expenses and all the units.
2011 Aruba 12 nights 1 BR $3200 (no FF miles)

There have been other trips including larger family trips (23 or 24 at HH last summer) beachfront at Marriott's Grande Ocean and Marriott's Surfwatch, these are some of our more expensive trips because they are more expensive ownerships.

ETA: buying BLT for such a purpose by paying twice as much for slightly lower dues would even make less sense for the purpose of exchanging.

It clearly reads RCI 1 BEDROOM RED WEEK 160 POINTS?

Is DVC lying?
No technically this is true but I think we've given you much of "the rest of the story".
 
It clearly reads RCI 1 BEDROOM RED WEEK 160 POINTS?

Is DVC lying?
No, of course not. But you still don't understand DVC/RCI, and your numbers are grossly incorrect.

For 160 points, you may be able to exchange into one of 600 or so RCI resorts (out of 6,500+ RCI resorts) for a one-bedroom during a prime (Red) week.

But you mistakenly expand that to "So when i posted it would cost me $600 in dues for DCV and I could trade it for any 1 bedroom on RCI in the world I guess it is a good deal?"

There are only four things wrong with that statement:
  1. The dues for 160 points would be somewhat more than $600.
  2. You are ignoring your acquisition costs, which are substantial and are THE big difference between DVC and other options.
  3. Your claim of "...any 1 BR on RCI" is an outrageous exaggeration...or a profound lack of understanding of the DVC/RCI alternative.
  4. You're not guaranteed a thing with RCI, and there is certainly no guarantee that you'd be able to get ANY one-bedroom anywhere. It all depends on availability.

Costs:
Your points costs are determined by two things: where you own, and what you paid for your points. I own at OKW, which has one of the lower annual dues at $4.97 per point. My acquisition cost (@$73 per point) is about $2 per point, so my total cost per point for 2011 is roughly $7 per point.

$7 X 160 points = $1,120 -- and for many menbers, that cost would be much higher.

That's a LONG way from $600.

Your question about a TWO-bedroom for $300 for a week is even more ludricrous with DVC...but doable through other systems as my example above shows.
 
Wow from the guy that thinks it only cost $200 per year for a 2 bedroom?

MUST BE A SCAM YOUR PUSHING!

Ok first of all I didn't buy direct.

WE bought and are waiting for BLT at $86 per point(150) with all 10, all 11 and all 12.

WE payed closing and 11 dues!

So I would say that is the best deal yet for BLT! Not bad for a stupid person?

160 points at $3.89=$622! NOT $800 for all the smart people!

If I rent our 150 points that are banked then that will drop our yearly cost to $1.52 per point. Oh and the smart guy forgets that DVC is worth something down the road so that drops the yearly cost even more if you sell it and get half your money back.

I never said I could get DVC for $300 per year. Someone posted that you could get a 2 bedroom for $300 per just as good or better then DVC. I asked where? I would buy 3 of them right away. 1 for each of my kids.

Of course the smart guy says we can get one for $200 per year? Where??? Please I will buy it if it isn't a dump or a scam!

Are other timeshare we bought directly from a owner for $10k and they called us back 2 years later and offered $14k. Not bad for a stupid person.

Our dues have gone from $550 to $800(over 10 years) but it is one of the most expensive places for electric.

We can rent it for $2,000.00 and have 2 times! Not bad for a stupid person!


As far as DVC being so much more expensive? Thousands of people buy direct every year from many places and what do they pay? Just as much or very close to DVC prices.

I know as we went to a LIki Tiki hard push and they started at $30k and dropped their pants to $15k and that was for a 2 bedroom and the dues were almost $900 per year! That was for 5k points and then 4k points!

Of course got home and found out you can get them for free!

I'm so glad we have all the smart people? As yes I do not know a lot about DVC yet and that is why I'm here.

I guess I know more then the guy that thinks you can get a 2 bedroom Wyndham for just $200 year?

Scammer or just not to bright? You decide!
 



















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