Help DIS Homeschoolers Help me convince my DH

[jodifla]

How insulting. You obviously know nothing about homeschooling.

"WHY WOULD I DO THAT TO [MY] CHILD?" Um ... because I LOVE him and want the BEST for him -- how's that for a reason?

Maybe *your* idea of what's best is overcrowded classrooms, not enough books to go around, children jumping on desks like animals, security cameras in the hallways, locked bathrooms, substandard test scores .... but that's sure not mine.

Oh, and most of the kids that my son hangs out with that are public-schooled tell him all the time that he's "so lucky" to be homeschooled. So no, they don't think of him as "odd".

And as far as using it to "justify" being a SAHM, let me tell you something ... I loved working; being a homemaker is not my forte. I do it because it is a SACRIFICE (financial and otherwise) that I gladly make because I love my child and want what is best for him.

I don't know if you realize how shrill you sound. Just as all homeschooling is not bad, all public schools are not trash.

Perhaps you are qualified to teach children, perhaps not. But your attitude is one of the ones I find pretty shocking on this board. We have lots of friends in public school in Michigan, and most are quite happy with the schooling their kids are getting (although there are definitely ones not up to par.) Their children are not "animals" either.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Wading into the morass here...

We've done a little bit of hs, a little bit of private, and a little bit of public, and I think as long as you're doing what you feel is best for your child, then don't worry.

As long as you're vigilant about your child's progress and open to changing approaches if it becomes obvious your kid's needs aren't being met, then you're doing a good job as a parent.

Because really, it's not about us, as teachers or parents, it's about them.

Heh, telling a mother not to worry, may as well tell us to stop breathing...

But, I digress.

I do have a question; do hs students take standardized tests like the ITBS and the CRCT's?

Do you have a way to compare their progress to other kids in the nation that are going to private and public schools?

Are hs kids allowed to participate in these tests?

How do they do, comparatively?

Everyone puts so much emphasis on education=good teacher. It just isn't so, in my opinion.

The ability to teach is a gift, not a skill!

I'm highly educated and I just suck at it; I don't have patience, organization, or the ability to get kids to watch me mesmerized as I talk about frogs or squid or the ocean.

Some teachers just have "it", and boy, are we blessed when we get them. And boy, does it rot when we get the burnout or the ill-suited teacher.

But that's life: you take the good with the bad.

And you sit on that 'bad' teacher's head the entire year to make it through, if you have to, because there's an education in tenacity, right there.

 

[momto2girls]

I haven't read through all the replies but here is my two cents.

I homeschooled my children for 3 years. K-2 for my daughter and just K for my son. Then we felt they really needed the socialization with other kids that they were not getting. I live in a small community and not a lot for them to get involved in unless they go to PS. So we started them in PS, my daughter went into 3rd and my son into 1st. Let me tell you it was a culture shock for them. They did not know how to interact with the other students at all. The school and kids were wonderful with them but my kids didn't know how to handle this enviorment. Though I loved being able to teach them and give them probably a better eduction then the PS, if I had a choice I would not have done it all over again. I would have sent them to PS from the start. This has been my one regret with my children. They have just finished there 2nd year of public school and they still have problems interacting. I have them involved with sports and such but they are so backwards. I see it starting to turn a bit but it just breaks my heart to watch them with other children and feel as though I have failed them in some respect. It really is upsetting.

This is just my experiences with my children, all situations are different and if you are able to get them involved and a lot of extracirricular activities then it would probably be completely diff. for you but we didn't have that opportunity.

That is unfortunate. I hope that your children continue to make progress.

I'm sure I wouldn't consider homeschooling if my children didn't have lots of outside opportunities for social interaction with other children. I do think that is very important.

But I also want to point out that something else. School is an artificial environment. It isn't something that is replicated in the real world. So, when a child who has never been to school before enters that environment, of course there is a huge amount of culture shock! It doesn't mean that he/she isn't properly socialized (in many cases). He/she just hasn't learned to "do school".

I liken it to a newly convicted person going to prison. Do you think that he/she just enters the prison system knowing all of the rules and how to behave and interact? No, of course not. It is apparent to everyone there when a "newbie" enters.

A child who has never attended school won't understand the rules of school immediately. Therefore, I'm sure he/she will look very naive and "backwards" when being told that he has to ask to go to the bathroom or stand in lines to walk to a different room, etc.

As for me, I'm taking my decision to homeschool my children one year at a time. There is no doubt in my mind that I can provide my children with a better education that traditional schooling (and hopefully one that won't kill their natural love of learning). Yes, it will take a LOT of extra work on my part. It is definitely not the easy way. I will be carting them around for activities and lessons in areas that I don't feel properly equipped to provide instruction (art and music for now and subjects such as biology labs, etc. later). But I feel committed to doing the best that I can for them.

If my children ever decide that they want to attend school, I will likely let them try it. Luckily, we are in a position to afford private schools. Public schools are not an option for our family. I have huge issues with them and have committed to never send my children there. So, for us, homeschooling works well now and private school would be a consideration if homeschooling stops working for us.

 

[noodleknitter]

I believe the homeschooled child to be dealing in the "real world" much more than the schooled child, FTR. School and college are not the "real world." They are the most artificial environment that I can imagine. What situation in life is anything like it? Nothing in mine.

Real life is about interaction with people of all ages, and backgrounds. Not herding with your own little peer led group for 12 years.

I think it is interesting that you want to bring the whole SAHM vs WOTH mom into the discussion. Poor parenting is poor parenting, and has nothing to do with SAHMs, WOTHs, HSers or PSers.

 

[noodleknitter]

Disnyrsh, in OH students have to take a standardized test such as the Iowa Basic or have a portfolio reviewed my a certified teacher. We've done both. I have issues with standardized testing, but think it has a time and a place.

 

[Disneyrsh]

I think it is interesting that you want to bring the whole SAHM vs WOTH mom into the discussion. Poor parenting is poor parenting, and has nothing to do with SAHMs, WOTHs, HSers or PSers.

Yeah, I'm exercising a massive amount of restraint here, not commenting on the post about 'justifying being a sahm'.

I need an emoticon that's called 'slow boil grinding teeth'...

 

[DiznEeyore]

I don't know if you realize how shrill you sound. Just as all homeschooling is not bad, all public schools are not trash.

Perhaps you are qualified to teach children, perhaps not. But your attitude is one of the ones I find pretty shocking on this board. We have lots of friends in public school in Michigan, and most are quite happy with the schooling their kids are getting (although there are definitely ones not up to par.) Their children are not "animals" either.

Amazing. You can hear my voice through a message board.

I'm not shrill. I'm emphatically replying to ignorance being hurled in my direction as a homeschooling parent. Every parent is "qualified" to teach their child if they're willing to put in the time and effort necessary. There's no "perhaps" about it.

I'm glad your friends are happy, and I certainly never said *all* public schools are bad; nor are *all* children animals. For you to make that leap is absolutely silly. I merely described the situation in the public school my son attended.

 

[Maybelle]

to Disneyrsh...thanks for your attitude of at least wanting to know about how homeschoolers fare in standardized test situations. So many posters here do not seem willing to take the time to investigate the good points.

If you do research, you will find that home schoolers, on the whole do fare beeter, on average than public school students, and in some studies the differences in achievement are dramatic! Can't give you any web sites right off the top of my head, but even our local newspaper ran a series on homeschooling recently, and pointed out the statistical differences in test scores.

Add to this the fact that more and more "mainstream" colleges and universities are accepting, and some actively recruiting home schooled students, and I think that speaks for itself.

 

[jodifla]

Amazing. You can hear my voice through a message board.

I'm not shrill. I'm emphatically replying to ignorance being hurled in my direction as a homeschooling parent. Every parent is "qualified" to teach their child if they're willing to put in the time and effort necessary. There's no "perhaps" about it.

I'm glad your friends are happy, and I certainly never said *all* public schools are bad; nor are *all* children animals. For you to make that leap is absolutely silly. I merely described the situation in the public school my son attended.

Now who's being silly? Not all parents are qualified to teach advance subjects.

There's school of choice in Michigan. Perhaps you should check it out.

 

[my4kids]

I too, could not put myself through reading all of these posts.....
I can not comment on what is best for any of your kids because I don't know you and I don't know anything about the school systems where you all live.
I think that homeschooling has its place and could work for some families.

However, I can comment on the homeschooling families that I do know. (I know several). I live in an area where the public schools are excellent. I could afford to send my children to private schools, and I am qualified to homeschool as my degree is in education, but I choose not to, because where I live, I don't feel I can give my children as much as they are getting in school, and I can't see where the privately educated kids are getting anything better either. I don't feel the PS is perfect, I just think where I am, it is the best option for my kids all around. The one common thing I notice in every homeschooling mother that I know is that they have MAJOR control issues. Mind you, this is an area where there is really no reason to homeschool, so I am not commenting on all the posters here, just the people I know in my area. They all feel that only they are good for their kids. Many of them also have eating disorders, which is closely associated with control. They seem to want to be the sole source of everything for their kids, like no one else is qualified. Not only can they not stand to have their kids in someone elses care for a few hours, but they can't stand the thought that their kids might eat food outside of their watch. (God forbid they eat a cookie - it could clog their arteries!) They are unable to roll with punches if something is not going their way, so they avoid any situation that could throw them a punch. Not one of the mothers I know, knows ANYTHING about our local PS. They just buy into all the stereotypes and stay absolutely uneducated about the school. Not all, but most of the homeschooled kids I know are absolutely impossible to have for a playdate because a) they are not used to getting along with kids their ages on a daily basis . b)Since they have never had an authority figure other than their parents, and have been brain washed into thinking that their parents are the only ones that know anything, they have absolutely NO RESPECT for any other adult, and are horribly behaved outside of their parents watch. c) homeschooling parents usually only allow playdates at their own homes, since they are so controlling even play needs to happen in their presence, so that they can control the situation in their own childs favor.

I do not feel that I have put my childs education in anyone elses hands...I still feel that it is in my hands as I love them and care about what they become. i just look at it as a partnership, or as people that I employ to ASSIST in their education. No they don't get all 'one on one' all day long. But why do they need to?, when they come home with their homework, I give them one on one and make sure they fully understand the lessons of the day.

I know of 2 homeschooling families that had to break down and put their kids in our PS because of financial reasons and the Mom had to go back to work full time. To talk to both of these mothers before, you would have thought that their kids were the most gifted children in the world and that the teachers didn't know anything. Guess what, both families children started out in remedial classes because they were SO unprepared for their grade levels. A couple needed resources like speech therapy and OT to help with the way they held a pencil and their horrible handwriting. Their mother could not have given them any of this help. Since there was nothing wrong with the kids intelligence, they eventually worked their way up into average classes, but just could not start there because they were not prepared at home for it.

These Moms are so uncomfortable with the fact that other kids might be ahead of theirs and their poor little self esteem might be damamged by the fact that they are not in the top of the class, that they create their own class and say, YOU are the best here. I just don't think there is any big deal about other kids being in higher groups than my kids...thats life, we are not all equal and do not all need the same things. I just care that my kid is getting what they need.

Side note - I also think that the parents paying tens of thousands for the private educations around here are drinking the "private school cool aid" Yes the facilities are prettier, yes they all have airconditioning, but the education is just not any better....I know my kids play with these kids all the time...going to a private school doesn't mean your kid is smarter, it just means your check can clear. I want my kids to be exposed to a wider spectrum of society than that.

OK - flame away.

 

[sha_lyn]

do have a question; do hs students take standardized tests like the ITBS and the CRCT's?

Do you have a way to compare their progress to other kids in the nation that are going to private and public schools?

Yes any home school student can take a standardized test. If they have to and when is determined by the laws in their state. In GA testing is required in 3,6 & 9 grade.

There are several ways to go about this. Our local school system sets up testing for HS'ers during testing of the PS students. It is done in the libraries of a few of the schools.
Bob Jones University certifies licensed test administrators. The ones in this area offer testing in a variety of situation... private testing in their home or yours, or to groups/co-ops for a reduced/group rate.
There are also testing services that allow the test to administered at home.

 

[DiznEeyore]

Now who's being silly? Not all parents are qualified to teach advance subjects.

There's school of choice in Michigan. Perhaps you should check it out.

Obviously you know nothing about the schools of choice program. And why on earth would I check it out anyway? We homeschool! Or did you miss that?

As I said, every parent is qualified if they're willing to put in the time and effort to prepare properly. Last time I looked, teachers teach out of manuals, too -- they don't have every little bit of knowledge permanently memorized, do they?

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else. No one here has to justify themselves or their choices to you or anyone else. I posted my experience in response to the OP's post. That's all. Nothing you or anyone else says is going to change my mind, just as nothing I say is going to change yours. Why continue to debate?

I am curious, though -- if you have no interest in homeschooling, why are you continuing to post on this thread? Do you feel you need to have input on how other people are raising and educating their children? Or are you just stirring the pot?

 

[momto2girls]

I am curious, though -- if you have no interest in homeschooling, why are you continuing to post on this thread? Do you feel you need to have input on how other people are raising and educating their children? Or are you just stirring the pot?

That's my question too. The OP specifically asked a question and directed it to "DIS Homeschoolers". She didn't ask an open question to the entire board. She didn't ask everyone whether they thought that homeschooling would hurt her child's socialization process. She asked DIS Homeschoolers how to convince her husband.

Yet, somehow, lots of non-homeschoolers felt that they needed to jump in to offer their opinions.

 

[Disneyrsh]

Side note - I also think that the parents paying tens of thousands for the private educations around here are drinking the "private school cool aid" Yes the facilities are prettier, yes they all have airconditioning, but the education is just not any better....I know my kids play with these kids all the time...going to a private school doesn't mean your kid is smarter, it just means your check can clear. I want my kids to be exposed to a wider spectrum of society than that.

OK - flame away.

Excellent post; no flames from me (shocker!)

We drank the private school kool aid for two years before wising up. What, 16 k a year doesn't buy me a decent teacher? Whoda thunk it? You can make darn sure those private schools are playing seriously coy with their test scores, too. That was another nasty surprise. Nannies coming to the parent teacher conference? Yup! Over 30% of the kids on ritalin? You betcha.

Does that mean I'll never consider a private school again for my kids? No, but I'll have a MUCH better idea of what questions to ask, what to look for, and what to look OUT for.

But that's a whooooooooole other thread!

 

[DiznEeyore]

I too, could not put myself through reading all of these posts.....
I can not comment on what is best for any of your kids because I don't know you and I don't know anything about the school systems where you all live.
I think that homeschooling has its place and could work for some families.

However, I can comment on the homeschooling families that I do know. (I know several). I live in an area where the public schools are excellent. I could afford to send my children to private schools, and I am qualified to homeschool as my degree is in education, but I choose not to, because where I live, I don't feel I can give my children as much as they are getting in school, and I can't see where the privately educated kids are getting anything better either. I don't feel the PS is perfect, I just think where I am, it is the best option for my kids all around. The one common thing I notice in every homeschooling mother that I know is that they have MAJOR control issues. Mind you, this is an area where there is really no reason to homeschool, so I am not commenting on all the posters here, just the people I know in my area. They all feel that only they are good for their kids. Many of them also have eating disorders, which is closely associated with control. They seem to want to be the sole source of everything for their kids, like no one else is qualified. Not only can they not stand to have their kids in someone elses care for a few hours, but they can't stand the thought that their kids might eat food outside of their watch. (God forbid they eat a cookie - it could clog their arteries!) They are unable to roll with punches if something is not going their way, so they avoid any situation that could throw them a punch. Not one of the mothers I know, knows ANYTHING about our local PS. They just buy into all the stereotypes and stay absolutely uneducated about the school. Not all, but most of the homeschooled kids I know are absolutely impossible to have for a playdate because a) they are not used to getting along with kids their ages on a daily basis . b)Since they have never had an authority figure other than their parents, and have been brain washed into thinking that their parents are the only ones that know anything, they have absolutely NO RESPECT for any other adult, and are horribly behaved outside of their parents watch. c) homeschooling parents usually only allow playdates at their own homes, since they are so controlling even play needs to happen in their presence, so that they can control the situation in their own childs favor.

I do not feel that I have put my childs education in anyone elses hands...I still feel that it is in my hands as I love them and care about what they become. i just look at it as a partnership, or as people that I employ to ASSIST in their education. No they don't get all 'one on one' all day long. But why do they need to?, when they come home with their homework, I give them one on one and make sure they fully understand the lessons of the day.

I know of 2 homeschooling families that had to break down and put their kids in our PS because of financial reasons and the Mom had to go back to work full time. To talk to both of these mothers before, you would have thought that their kids were the most gifted children in the world and that the teachers didn't know anything. Guess what, both families children started out in remedial classes because they were SO unprepared for their grade levels. A couple needed resources like speech therapy and OT to help with the way they held a pencil and their horrible handwriting. Their mother could not have given them any of this help. Since there was nothing wrong with the kids intelligence, they eventually worked their way up into average classes, but just could not start there because they were not prepared at home for it.

These Moms are so uncomfortable with the fact that other kids might be ahead of theirs and their poor little self esteem might be damamged by the fact that they are not in the top of the class, that they create their own class and say, YOU are the best here. I just don't think there is any big deal about other kids being in higher groups than my kids...thats life, we are not all equal and do not all need the same things. I just care that my kid is getting what they need.

Side note - I also think that the parents paying tens of thousands for the private educations around here are drinking the "private school cool aid" Yes the facilities are prettier, yes they all have airconditioning, but the education is just not any better....I know my kids play with these kids all the time...going to a private school doesn't mean your kid is smarter, it just means your check can clear. I want my kids to be exposed to a wider spectrum of society than that.

OK - flame away.

No flames, just

NONE of the homeschool kids I've EVER met are like you describe!!

 

[Disneyrsh]

Yes any home school student can take a standardized test. If they have to and when is determined by the laws in their state. In GA testing is required in 3,6 & 9 grade.

There are several ways to go about this. Our local school system sets up testing for HS'ers during testing of the PS students. It is done in the libraries of a few of the schools.
Bob Jones University certifies licensed test administrators. The ones in this area offer testing in a variety of situation... private testing in their home or yours, or to groups/co-ops for a reduced/group rate.
There are also testing services that allow the test to administered at home.

Is there a database that shows how hs kids did, nationally, vs their peers?

Or if you take the ITBS you get the results privately but there isn't a national average for hs'ers?

When my kid takes the ITBS, do those results include competing against hs'ers scores?

The info I found when I received her test scores really didn't break it down demographically; I basically got a number that I then had to go hunting around on the internet for to see just what it meant.

I don't pray at the altar of standardized testing, but I do think it provides some insight-a useful tool.

 

[jodifla]

No flames, just

NONE of the homeschool kids I've EVER met are like you describe!!

I'm not sure you'd recognize it if you saw kids like this.

And I DO KNOW about the school of choice program. DS is in Michigan for at least the next couple of school years, and he'll be taking part in it.

 

[jodifla]

That's my question too. The OP specifically asked a question and directed it to "DIS Homeschoolers". She didn't ask an open question to the entire board. She didn't ask everyone whether they thought that homeschooling would hurt her child's socialization process. She asked DIS Homeschoolers how to convince her husband.

Yet, somehow, lots of non-homeschoolers felt that they needed to jump in to offer their opinions.

I continue to post because of the flame-throwing going on against public schools.

 

[momto2girls]

Or are you just stirring the pot?

Yep! I definitely vote "stirring the pot"!

 

[my4kids]

That's my question too. The OP specifically asked a question and directed it to "DIS Homeschoolers". She didn't ask an open question to the entire board. She didn't ask everyone whether they thought that homeschooling would hurt her child's socialization process. She asked DIS Homeschoolers how to convince her husband.

Yet, somehow, lots of non-homeschoolers felt that they needed to jump in to offer their opinions.

The debate long ago got away from the original post and the conversation contiues. Why do you feel the conversation needs to be segragated to homeschoolers? Like I was saying...it is like you can't roll with the punches so you need to separate from society. It reminds me of Wizard of Oz - "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" You just want to talk amongst yourselves? Is there no insight in the outside world?