Help!!! Did I make a mistake?

[Deb & Bill]

We bought our initial DVC contract 15 years ago direct from Disney. There may have been a resale market at that time, but we weren't aware of it. We ultimately bought three more contracts direct only because two of the resorts were new and DVC had started selling OKW points again when they built the new buildings. The fifth contract was a small one we bought resale because at the time it was the only way to get more OKW points.

We paid $50 a point for our initial contract. I couldn't imagine paying $100+ for a DVC point. And what they are projecting for the Viillas at GF is outrageous. Our initial dues were around $2.50 a point. Now they are closer to around $4.50 a point, more or less. We sold two of our contracts because we thought we were giving Disney too much money. We new have 325 which is plenty. The two that we sold, sold for more than we paid initially. That is not going to ever happen again.

We'll never buy another DVC point again. We can use the points we have to stay at any DVC resort, but we only have points at two resorts now, so we have to book at seven months out for any of the others. We won't waste our points or energy on using our points for anything non-DVC.

I'm not planning my son's future at WDW because he can join us if he likes. If he has a family, he can bring them if we have the points available (we're not worrying about this for a long time). We don't treat friends to stays unless they are joining us in the villa we already planned to book. They can book their own stays.

If you read the documentation, all the perks, bells and whistles aren't guaranteed. Only DVC stays are guaranteed and even they can be modified. Flexibility? Nah, it's not really there. If you want to stay at BCV during Food & Wine, you might be lucky enough to book it at seven months out, but it is only getting harder and harder to do that. We couldn't get it at exactly seven months out for the seven nights we wanted, so we booked BLT instead. And if you want a specific RCI resort, that becomes even harder. You basically give a range of dates and a wide range of locales and keep your fingers crossed.

If you weren't planning on booking a stay immediately, rescind your offer and check out resales. Wouldn't you kick yourself if a year after you bought you were told that no one can use points for DCL? Buy where you want to stay the best and stay there. If you can get anything else at all, it's just gravy.

And, by the way, you can never use points at Value resorts. You'll use as many points at a moderate resort that you would use for a one bedroom. The few deluxe resorts left are really point expensive. And you pay $95 to book that stay, just like all the non-DVC stays.

 

[permavac]

And then the question becomes - why not use cash? If saving money isn't important and maximizing flexibility is the most important criteria, nothing is more flexible than cash...

Well said! And in the end, this is the answer behind every tantalizing "something for nothing" offer out there. I always compare DVC to the Disney Dining Plan (albeit on a much smaller scale). The DDP is a money maker for Disney and it does not save me any money with the way my DH and I eat - it actually would cost more, so we don't buy it. But, I want to buy it! I run the numbers for every trip we plan and it's always the same. So, why do I long to have it?!

Terri

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think one of the last posts made it very clear to me ... I, too, would like the freedom to use my points however I want. If I am doing this, then I am going for it and want no restrictions. We had the money in a vacation fund, and from what I gather, after three trips (Spending like we normally spend) we will break even and still have 40+ years of trips to take!

Keep in mind that the "freedom" you are paying for is nothing that is guaranteed to anyone - even direct buyers. And if that freedom you refer to involves cruises it is possible that there would be limited availability to book with DVC points. It has happened - and not that long ago. So suddenly the reason you paid that extra cash to buy direct has nothing behind it.

One more question, as I am intrigued by this resale market, if I bought more points on the resale market can I combine them? I vaguely recall reading that they can't be combined for certain things?

Resale points now have their restrictions about being used for Disney collection but if they are valid to be used on a stay they can be combined with your direct points. So, for example, since you can use resale points to trade to RCI they could be combined with any directly purchased points. There are a few more intricacies to combining if you purchased a different UY but if you stay with the same UY then it's virtually seamless.

Just to add that you have received some very good input based upon your questions. People who know the program have seen flags that you do not have a strong knowledge of the product. Since you asked if you made a mistake many have counseled that you take some time to gain more knowledge.

Your decision may still be to buy direct but what most are saying is that there really is no rush. It's a long term, expensive decision and DVC will still be there to sell to you next month or the month after that. Deals come and go and change but I doubt the 20% discount is the last one DVC will offer. And BTW it is not a 20% discount as I understand math calculations - just under 17%, but marketing spins it to 20%.

 

[julefish3]

Thanks Terri

Wow. I am shocked and appalled at the manner in which some of you responded to my post. Who are you to critic me on my grammar and questions regarding the club. I'm sure you were all in my position years. if you don't have anything nice, or in this case helpful, to say then don't say it.

Have a great night. And again, I thank most of you for the advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Chereya - that punctuation was for you!)

 

[Missyrose]

Thanks Terri

Wow. I am shocked and appalled at the manner in which some of you responded to my post. Who are you to critic me on my grammar and questions regarding the club. I'm sure you were all in my position years. if you don't have anything nice, or in this case helpful, to say then don't say it.

Have a great night. And again, I thank most of you for the advice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Chereya - that punctuation was for you!)

OP, I think the frustration of the people who responded to you lies in the fact that you wanted answers to questions you didn't really ask. And instead you got upset at the answers people gave to the questions you DID ask.

The bottom line is there wouldn't be a whole message board full of DVC owners if we didn't think DVC was worth it. But part of the satisfaction with the product comes from understanding what you've bought and understanding the system you're buying into. You wouldn't believe how many people come onto the boards to complain about how unfair the system is and much of their frustration could have been avoided with just the smallest bit of research about how everything works.

If you only want the sunshine and rainbow opinions, then all you had to do was ask "what do you love about your DVC?" You would have gotten much different responses. Good luck with your decision.

 

[crisi]

Is there any risk with renting out points? What if the user of the points damages the room or does something detrimental. Are you, as the point holder/owner, liable for the costs/problems?

There is risk on both sides of any rental between private parties. The owner is liable for actions take while his points are used - so a trashed room or an unpaid bill (and possibly even illegal action taken by your guest on the grounds) could open you up for liability. And plenty of owners have fallen for hard luck stories and never ended up with the entire agreed upon rental price (I'll pay you in two weeks....two weeks...two weeks.) On the other side, the owner retains control of the reservation until check in - and could cancel that room - although it appears most cases of rentals gone bad from that end are situations where the owner is in a really tight spot and Disney cancels the reservation for unpaid dues.

 

[julefish3]

I understand that some people may have been frustrated with my OP, but to start 'name-calling' is childish, immature and downright pathetic. Simply telling me that I should rescind and review the DVC before purchasing would have been appreciated. But to call me bi-polar, Jekyll and Hyde, to critic my grammar/punctuation and to call into question my ability to be a good lawyer is what we attorneys call libel. As someone already stated, it's scary to think that I am paying money to vacation with some of these posters. Maybe I should rescind on that basis alone!

I am on a blog and frankly I don't care about my English writing skills ... I wanted answers about the DVC. To the people who bashed and trashed my post, with all due respect, get a life! Thanks to most of you, I got some great information and am able to make an informed decision.

 

[JimMIA]

Wow. I am shocked and appalled at the manner in which some of you responded to my post. Who are you to critic me on my grammar and questions regarding the club. ... if you don't have anything nice, or in this case helpful, to say then don't say it.

I would ignore the comments about writing style, punctuation, etc -- except in those cases where there is legitimate misunderstanding of what you meant to say...and there were a couple of places where I was unsure what you were trying to ask.

But as far as critiquing your questions, I would not get excited about that. With the exception of Chereya's post above (which will undoubtedly be reviewed by the mods, if it hasn't been already), most of the responses have been offered in an effort to be helpful, not critical.

I would approach your own questions and the feedback you have received (and were obviously surprised and disappointed by) by reverting to your normal role as a consumer attorney.

If a client came to you and said the following, "I just bought a timeshare, but I'm not sure I did the right thing. I asked some questions on the DISboards, and many of the rude posters said I don't understand what I bought..." what would you advise that client?

You would ask for more specifics, and when you found out that the client's recission period had not passed -- in an abundance of caution -- you would advise them to rescind, take their time, do their research...and then make a knowledgeable decision.

None of us here can tell you whether DVC is right for your family.

More importantly, none of us can tell you whether DVC is the right choice -- among the vast universe of vacation lodging options -- for your family. The fact is, very few of us have researched anything but DVC.

None of us can tell you whether buying direct or resale is the best option for your family (although having bought both ways. I cannot imagine a sound justification for my family to buy DVC direct in this market).

However, we can see that you clearly do not understand DVC.

And that's a problem for a person buying any timeshare.

 

[DizBub]

None of us here can tell you whether DVC is right for your family.

More importantly, none of us can tell you whether DVC is the right choice -- among the vast universe of vacation lodging options -- for your family. The fact is, very few of us have researched anything but DVC.

None of us can tell you whether buying direct or resale is the best option for your family (although having bought both ways. I cannot imagine a sound justification for my family to buy DVC direct in this market).

However, we can see that you clearly do not understand DVC.

And that's a problem for a person buying any timeshare.

Most DVC owners (maybe not on this board or thread) did buy direct and basically "learned along the way". Obviously it's a very successful and popular program and most owners need/want more points. Resale is so much cheaper and people, myself included, have opted to add to their membership in this fashion. Reading about the process on these boards made me much more confident taking that step. Some can be passionate about this and really care that you don't overpay.

When we bought a few years ago we didn't know about resale, not that there was any resale market for BLT then. I don't regret buying direct and felt that it gave me a certain leg up in the learning process. OP was probably just experiencing a mixture of excitement/anxiety/euphoria/panic when she posted, just like most of us.

OP, enjoy your purchase and the learning process. I'm pretty certain you will be back here in a year or 2 actually looking into resale.

 

[GOOFY D]

Most DVC owners (maybe not on this board or thread) did buy direct and basically "learned along the way". Obviously it's a very successful and popular program and most owners need/want more points. Resale is so much cheaper and people, myself included, have opted to add to their membership in this fashion. Reading about the process on these boards made me much more confident taking that step. Some can be passionate about this and really care that you don't overpay.

When we bought a few years ago we didn't know about resale, not that there was any resale market for BLT then. I don't regret buying direct and felt that it gave me a certain leg up in the learning process. OP was probably just experiencing a mixture of excitement/anxiety/euphoria/panic when she posted, just like most of us.

OP, enjoy your purchase and the learning process. I'm pretty certain you will be back here in a year or 2 actually looking into resale.

Based on your experience, if you were a non-DVC member today, would you simply purchase resale rather than direct?

 

[DougEMG]

Thanks to most of you, I got some great information and am able to make an informed decision.

Please let us know what you end up doing and why. Just as the vast majority of us enjoy our DVC, I'm sure you will too. Good luck.

 

[DougEMG]

fyi, the majority are resales buyers. from my observations, are
manipulative and "working" their own agendas.

I strongly disagree with your statement here.

Let's assume that every single person that gave advice on this thread was a resale owner and you are the only direct purchaser that gave advice. That way you can cherry pick what you like. What exactly was this agenda that all of us were working towards.

From what I can see the main piece of advice was to "take your time and learn how the system works before buying".

 

[DougEMG]

i think dvc is worth it.

I agree with you here.

going direct is the best way to go, for the long haul.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with such a blanket statement. The best option is the one that satifies ones individual requirements. That could be buying direct, buying resale, renting, staying in an onsite hotel, staying offsite, etc.

 

[DizBub]

Based on your experience, if you were a non-DVC member today, would you simply purchase resale rather than direct?

Gotta think about this one. Our experience was very good buying direct. Almost too easy. As I mentioned before, there was virtually no resale for BLT when we bought. Our guide was only selling BLT, AKV and SSR (treehouses). We were really interested in BWV, he said it was a sold out resort and could sell it to us (waitlisting, probably by ROFRing a resale contract. I know this now.) but we could get a much better incentive buying the newer resorts. Looked at the MFs and decided on BLT. We paid @ $100pp. After buying I found all this info on-line. Hindsight being 20/20 we probably should have bought resale but would not have trusted the process, especially the long wait. I've learned so much on DVC message boards. There is SO MUCH TO LEARN, it can be very confusing. Then it sinks in..... you know better, you do better.

I would advise anyone to buy resale especially if they want to save a ton o' $. My DD understands DVC and wants to join and I've told her about resale but her 1st inclination is to buy direct so she doesn't have to stress/wait. They can afford it. Before she actually buys, I will make sure she is fully informed and make her do her homework here and other places. Why pay more when you don't need to? Now, if she wants to buy at VGF there won't be any cheap resale for that for a very long time.

I still don't regret buying direct but won't do it again because I know better.

 

[GOOFY D]

Gotta think about this one. Our experience was very good buying direct. Almost too easy. As I mentioned before, there was virtually no resale for BLT when we bought. Our guide was only selling BLT, AKV and SSR (treehouses). We were really interested in BWV, he said it was a sold out resort and could sell it to us (waitlisting, probably by ROFRing a resale contract. I know this now.) but we could get a much better incentive buying the newer resorts. Looked at the MFs and decided on BLT. We paid @ $100pp. After buying I found all this info on-line. Hindsight being 20/20 we probably should have bought resale but would not have trusted the process, especially the long wait. I've learned so much on DVC message boards. There is SO MUCH TO LEARN, it can be very confusing. Then it sinks in..... you know better, you do better.

I would advice anyone to buy resale especially if they want to save a ton o' $. My DD understands DVC and wants to join and I've told her about resale but her 1st inclination is to buy direct so she doesn't have to stress/wait. They can afford it. Before she actually buys, I will make sure she is fully informed and make her do her homework here and other places. Why pay more when you don't need to? Now, if she wants to buy at VGF there won't be any cheap resale for that for a very long time.

I still don't regret buying direct but won't do it again because I know better.

Thanks. We thought we got a great deal at $106 per point at AKV buying direct, but after doing a lot of research, it appears that same type of deed can be had for $63-$70 a point. So, now I am having my doubts and likely will rescind and continue to research. I had no idea of the resale market and the significant difference in price (and was on a cruise ship when I purchased, so did not have access to research).

 

[JimMIA]

I suspect this thread is on its deathbed, but I do want to offer OP one caution about DVC.

OP, you mention wanting to use DVC to "travel the world." We'd be remiss if we didn't warn you that exchanging outside DVC is not a good value generally, but it also lacks scope and flexibility.

In fact, if you want to use a timeshare for exchange options, I think most timeshare-knowledgeable people would tell you that you can do far better with several other systems (most of which can be purchased for pennies on the dollar).

For Disney resorts, other hotels, Adventures by Disney, and Disney Cruise Line, the points costs are VERY high. With 120 points, you would not have enough points for more than one or two nights in many places.

The same is true with RCI. For almost any RCI exchange, you'd have to use more than a year's DVC points. And when you look at those RCI points costs, understand that most timeshares don't have studios and many have nothing smaller than two-bedroom -- so you may need a LOT more points to exchange than you think.

And in addition to that severe limitation, you are limited to only about 600 of the more than 4,000 RCI resorts. Yes, you will hear anecdotal stories of individual members getting ONE great RCI vacation exchange, but DVC is a singularly bad vehicle to use for that purpose on a regular basis. You'd be MUCH better off buying a good timeshare on eBay for a few hundred bucks including closing.

Even better -- given your stated objective of using points elsewhere about 1/2 the time -- would be to look into a different timeshare system which gives you far more internal choices than DVC's 11 resorts, and also probably gives you FULL individual RCI or II membership.

 

[Pixiedust530]

ELMC, it's not an exercise in futility as I'm sure there are lurkers reading this thread that will take what has been said and make use of that information to help them make their decision. I know that's what I use to do.

You got that right Doug. I am a lurker. OK...I post, but I've been lurking the DVC area for some time now. I HAD NO IDEA that resale even existed. I am not in a financial situation to be able to afford DVC (direct OR resale) right now, but hope to be able to in the next year or 2.

I am using the fact that I CAN'T make an impulse buy right now to my advantage (otherwise I would have already bought direct ) and doing LOTS and LOTS of research. I am about 95% sure that WHEN the time comes to buy...it will be RESALE!

I have learned so much here thanks to veterans like yourself. You may tick someone off from time to time, but you are giving accurate and LOGICAL information! Keep it up!

 

[vicki_c]

I think we should refer to this board as the "no pixie dust" board, like they do on the Transportation board! Just the cold hard facts, hopefully.

 

[princessaloha]

Hi julefish3!

I've been following along and have tried to stay out of the fray but noticed your edit and decided to jump in. Probably not the smartest move on my part but here it goes.

I know it must be hard to have all this excitement and thoughts running around after your purchase and wanting to share it with others and expressing all the topsy turvy feelings you're having only to have "reality" thrown in your face. It must seem like plenty of posters are insinuating negative things about you and your choices. In my experience here on the Dis, is that it may come off that way but the intent of fellow posters is to provide all the relevant facts so others can make better more informed choices. Especially in situations like yours where you still have the opportunity to cancel your existing contract, learn a little bit more so you can be completely assured that this is the right choice for you.

This place and others like it are 98% over the top positive about all things Disney. Disney can do little to no wrong here because obviously we are all huge fans. So it's important, especially on this thread where tens of thousands of dollars are at stake, to throw in the 2% reality check. And sometimes that 2% is thrown pretty hard because there is such a short time for someone to understand once they've already made the purchase but have doubts. In fact only 10 days to understand.

That said, my experience here has shown me that once you are past either your doubts or the cancellation time frame, you will receive open armed congratulations and support from this community.

Good Luck in your process

 

[Deb & Bill]

OP, we could throw tons of pixiedust your way, but you already got that from the DVC salesperson. You came here asking for facts and you got them. You should be grateful that these DVC owners will share the facts with you and not just blow smoke.