Helene Aftermath…Are You Ok?

[Minnesota!]

Even with a Hurricane where you can predict the path, don't TPTB need to wait to see what areas actually need disaster relief? They can put some people closer (which it sounds like they did) before the event, then it will take a couple of days to figure out A) where the problem areas are B) how many problem areas there are C) what kind of problem areas there are and D) what kind of people they need to solve the problems.

People are complaining literally within days that "not enough is being done"? Yea, I also didn't know we had so many experts in Disaster Recovery on here.

You didn't know? The Covid experts are now disaster relief experts! Multitalented!

All the people quoting "750 is all they get"....does anyone do ANY research, EVER? 750 is the emergency fund you get to get gas, food, formula, transportation, a hotel room, etc. Pretty much to bridge you to the "staging area" where the actual resources are provided.

The president does not set this amount.

Did you complain when the former guy only gave 500? Or diverted the funds for FEMA to detention centers? Just wondering.

Look, people are highly charged due to political stuff in other aspects of the country, but this is not, and should never be, political. Fellow HUMANS (no matter nationality) are in horrible positions. Just shut the eff up about politics and donate, write/call if you want to see change, and just do better by your fellow humans. It is GROSS to politicize any of this. Nothing changes if nothing changes.

 

[JLTraveling]

Not a fan of the man, but how did he totally disrupt rescue efforts?

VP Kamala Harris just set up a news conference in front of a home with a tree through it. In a neighborhood with no electricity. I am sure generators were used, and then taken back by the staff. At no point did I think anything she did was wrong. Or that she disrupted rescue efforts. She did her job.

This is what politicians do. They show up in disaster zones, give their speeches, offer their pledges and promises, and then leave (taking their supplies with them).

I don't want to take this too far, since it's not the appropriate forum. But I'll just point out that Harris specifically waited until there was a way to do her appearance that wouldn't be disruptive. Bush was in such as hurry to overcome the photo of him looking down from the air that made him look aloof and disinterested (his own words) that he rushed in too soon, when it really did divert a lot of resources away from rescue efforts. AND, he was committed to proving to the world that it wasn't really that bad and he had it under control, so he staged a "look, everything's great now" press conference in the one spot that had taken the least damage. She got permission to use the house with the tree through it, and used her position to highlight how much help is still needed. If he'd waited a couple more days and then done that type of press conference, no big deal.

 

[Pink Partridge]

She got permission to use the house with the tree through it, and used her position to highlight how much help is still needed. If he'd waited a couple more days and then done that type of press conference, no big deal.

But Bush did wait. He waited 17 days to do that speech in Jackson Square. And his speech was very similar to Kamala's. Promises and Hope.

And like Bush, Biden also flew over the damage. Looking at it from above.

Again, all of these leaders are doing what leaders do in times of crisis.

 

[DCLMP]

Guess we can also say how much money does Israel yet? same thing right?? on the otherhand comparing foreign aid to invasion or supplying military aid ( all the billions for american manufactored weapons of war (horribel as it sounds- american jobs as war is a great boost to GDP) is apples to oranges with disaster aid. Your arguement is assuming that Americans wont be aided, which is not the case

Thank God they can print money they don't have.

 

[DCLMP]

But Bush did wait. He waited 17 days to do that speech in Jackson Square. And his speech was very similar to Kamala's. Promises and Hope.

And like Bush, Biden also flew over the damage. Looking at it from above.

Again, all of these leaders are doing what leaders do in times of crisis.

It's the same when we have a crisis at work. The suits all come out of the office to look like they are doing something.

 

[RedAngie]

$750 is literally nothing. Even if they give that to people that have been rescued and have nothing left, that won’t even allow them to travel away from the area or even get lodging for a week never mind food and clothing.

No one is stopping you from giving everyone affected $10,000.

A handful of posters really have giant cactuses up their butts about this.

 

[JLTraveling]

.We have the resources , helicopters and manpower.
Throw out the red tape and actually do something. If it wasn’t for private groups and private helicopter it would be a lot worse. Same thing in Maui it was all private citizens.

Aren't you on the side of smaller government and less funding? Yet whenever anything happens you want the government to do the rescuing. And again I ask, DO what? There is a massive resource mobilization. That's the role of the government. By "throw out the red tape," are you referring to the logistical operations? Just helicopter a whole bunch of soldiers to the 800 mile long, 350 mile wide disaster zone and drop 'em on in with no coordination? You never did answer that question.

I'm sorry if you found it offensive or hurtful, but I really don't think you read my reply from the correct angles.

You might not like accusatory angles, but it is most certainly warranted if any kind of evacuation orders were in place and people chose not to heed the warnings. You say you lived in LA...so surely, you must have feelings about the people in surge areas that intentionally ignore evac orders and either perish or put first responders at risk when they call begging for help.

I have relatives in the current disaster zone, but I haven't spent enough time there to know all of the factors that go into the decision to evacuate or not. But I can speak to what happened with Katrina. In that case, several things converged to lower the evacuation rate:

• New Orleans had had a TON of previous close calls, but they always wobbled at the last minute. It had been several decades since the city took a direct hit of any importance, so a lot of people thought it was another overblown bit of hype.
• A significant portion of the population didn't own cars. Flights, trains, and buses got booked up incredibly early by tourists who had nothing to lose by cutting their vacation short. By the time serious evacuation orders came in, most of that stuff was already shutting down and any last-minute flights that might have had a seat or two were extraordinarily expensive.
• It was right before the end of the month. Anybody on Social Security, government benefits, or simply employers that pay once a month was out of cash. They couldn't afford to get out.
• Families that had lived in New Orleans for a long time often chose vertical evacuation. That is, most of the flooding that had occurred with all the previous hurricanes had hit the first floor at most. So people retreated to their second floor or, if they could afford it, rented higher hotel rooms. Nobody really thought the levees would fail (experts, yes. People who had been there forever, no.)
• Evacuation from NOLA is HARD. We had all just done it a year before for Ivan, which was predicted to be the BIG ONE but fizzled out into nothing. My family had two vehicles and money, and the best we could do was a campground in southeast Arkansas. That's normally about a 4.5 hour drive. It took us about 16 hours, with me and my then-husband, my disabled parents, our essential items and valuables, and all of our pets packed into two vans. The vast majority of that time was spent just getting to Baton Rouge, which is a little over an hour from NOLA in normal times. And that's WITH contraflow in effect, which means that ALL lanes were designated for leaving, not coming into, New Orleans. There simply aren't enough roads and bridges for a speedy evacuation. And if you hem and haw and wait too late to decide to evacuate, you're screwed. You either end up stuck in traffic when the storm hits or the roads close before you can get there. So a lot of people still had Ivan fresh on their minds and weren't willing to go through that again.

Seriously money is not immediately helpful in this disaster. Do you expect government officials to go around with bags of cash to hand out? What will people do with it? There’s no where to use it. The provisions such as water, food, and education is what is needed immediately, and it’s being delivered. The emergency fund of money can be applied for by those in more stable settings who can actually access things to purchase. Then, as mentioned, they can apply for other funds for shelter, etc.

This. We happened to be in FL for the summer when Katrina hit. We went back two weeks later to salvage what we could. We arrived with money that we really wanted to spend to help our community (yes, we also donated). But nothing was open for miles and miles and miles. We had a hotel room about 2 hours away from the city. While we were in town surveying the damage, we pulled into a closed gas station where an ambulance was parked. Asked the driver whether there was anyplace we could buy dinner. He said no, everything in the entire surrounding area was closed, but he was with the Red Cross and would we like a hot meal? So we gratefully accepted, and also took a case of water, two big bags of ice, and a carton of nonperishables, which we delivered to a nearby shelter.

But Bush did wait. He waited 17 days to do that speech in Jackson Square. And his speech was very similar to Kamala's. Promises and Hope.

And like Bush, Biden also flew over the damage. Looking at it from above.

Again, all of these leaders are doing what leaders do in times of crisis.

I'm sorry, did I miss that you lived in New Orleans during Katrina? If you didn't, then how about listening to not only my opinion but the general consensus of all of us who DID live there? Why do you have such a strong need to be "right," even when the people who were directly affected say that you're wrong? If the people of this disaster zone say that Kamala Harris was in the way, I would believe them. So far I haven't heard that, but I would take their word for it.

 

[DCLMP]

$750 is literally nothing. Even if they give that to people that have been rescued and have nothing left, that won’t even allow them to travel away from the area or even get lodging for a week never mind food and clothing.

These days it's a trip to Costco and a tank of gas. I'm going to California tomorrow to see my son. Hotel and dinner for one night for one person will be at least 200.00.

 

[sam_gordon]

Hotel and dinner for one night for one person will be at least 200.00.

That doesn't seem outrageous, although slightly high. $150/night for a hotel room and $50 for dinner = $200. However, that hotel room could probably hold at least four people, probably more. Dinner could be gotten for four people for cheaper than $50pp.

So, in your opinion, $750 isn't enough. How much do you want them to hand out immediately? $1000? $1500? $2000? Is it per person, per family, per household?

People are asking you what exactly you want to see done. All I've seen you (and others) answer is "not enough is being done". So, put up or shut up.

 

[JLTraveling]

These days it's a trip to Costco and a tank of gas. I'm going to California tomorrow to see my son. Hotel and dinner for one night for one person will be at least 200.00.

California is also a high cost of living area, and I'm willing to bet you're not staying in a one-star side of the road motel. Of course $750 isn't enough to make people whole, or even to support them for very long. But it's not designed to do either one. As a PP mentioned, it's designed to put enough gas in the car to get to the other side of the disaster zone, buy any basic essentials like a single Walmart change of clothing or some diapers, and sleep in a roadside motel for a night or two while the REST of their aid can get started.

We got the initial cash after Katrina (that's how we were able to rush back from FL unexpectedly to salvage what we could of our stuff). We were then in the system and able to file for FEMA to pay for our hotel room after the first night. There was TONS more federal aid available, but given that we had been renters, had decent income that hadn't been impacted, and had renters insurance that covered most of our personal property losses, we didn't need it. But that personal experience is how I know 100% that the $750 is just the "get you out of harm's way and into the system" bit.

 

[DCLMP]

Aren't you on the side of smaller government and less funding? Yet whenever anything happens you want the government to do the rescuing. And again I ask, DO what? There is a massive resource mobilization. That's the role of the government. By "throw out the red tape," are you referring to the logistical operations? Just helicopter a whole bunch of soldiers to the 800 mile long, 350 mile wide disaster zone and drop 'em on in with no coordination? You never did answer that question.

When have I ever said that I'm on the side of less funding? I'm on the side of efficient government and a balanced budget. I'm on the side of my tax dollars being spent wisely to help other Americans not proxy wars. I'm anti-war. Totally irrelevant because none of those things will ever happen regardless of who sits behind the resolute desk.

As far as your question about helicopters. Private helicopters have been flying in supplies for days. It's not impossible. At this point there going to be a lot of body recovery that needs to happen. Who is going to do that? I would assume the military.

 

[Pink Partridge]

'm sorry, did I miss that you lived in New Orleans during Katrina? If you didn't, then how about listening to not only my opinion but the general consensus of all of us who DID live there? Why do you have such a strong need to be "right," even when the people who were directly affected say that you're wrong?

What does living in NOLA have to do with the facts? I feel the need to "be right", because you are fabricating scenarios.

I am sure you are emotional seeing the latest disaster because of what you have been through. But you are posting false information with these emotions.

 

[Dan Murphy]

We have the resources , helicopters and manpower.

Yes we do

If it wasn’t for private groups and private helicopter it would be a lot worse.

They do help. However, the heavy lift is accomplished by the military...man/lady power, equipment, total resources, training, etc. As of this morning, the NC National Guard has helicoptered 538 rescues, along with 150 pets.

in Maui it was all private citizens.

No, it wasn't. Again, private citizens helped, as always, especially in the early hours. Neighbors helping neighbors. I've seen it here in my neighborhood, DC. For instance, bad, heavy snowstorms. After the snow stops, or even during the snowfall, neighbors will help shovel some of the elderly folks entrances, walkways, driveways, so they can get out if needed. Then later in the day, or the next day, the village shows up with the heavy equipment and trained personnel, to do the heavy lift, streets, public parking lots, etc. It's the American way.



Encouraging NC/SC power update.

 

[DCLMP]

California is also a high cost of living area, and I'm willing to bet you're not staying in a one-star side of the road motel. Of course $750 isn't enough to make people whole, or even to support them for very long. But it's not designed to do either one. As a PP mentioned, it's designed to put enough gas in the car to get to the other side of the disaster zone, buy any basic essentials like a single Walmart change of clothing or some diapers, and sleep in a roadside motel for a night or two while the REST of their aid can get started.

We got the initial cash after Katrina (that's how we were able to rush back from FL unexpectedly to salvage what we could of our stuff). We were then in the system and able to file for FEMA to pay for our hotel room after the first night. There was TONS more federal aid available, but given that we had been renters, had decent income that hadn't been impacted, and had renters insurance that covered most of our personal property losses, we didn't need it. But that personal experience is how I know 100% that the $750 is just the "get you out of harm's way and into the system" bit.

I'm staying at the Hampton in for 139.00 plus tax. That's pretty much a normal hotel cost. How long do you think it will take to get the rest of the aid weeks, months. How fast are FEMA claims processed?

 

[Pink Partridge]

f the people of this disaster zone say that Kamala Harris was in the way, I would believe them. So far I haven't heard that, but I would take their word for it.

Unless you are confusing me with someone else, I never said Kamala Harris was in the way. I actually said the opposite. This is what leaders do. It's their job.

 

[DCLMP]

That doesn't seem outrageous, although slightly high. $150/night for a hotel room and $50 for dinner = $200. However, that hotel room could probably hold at least four people, probably more. Dinner could be gotten for four people for cheaper than $50pp.

So, in your opinion, $750 isn't enough. How much do you want them to hand out immediately? $1000? $1500? $2000? Is it per person, per family, per household?

People are asking you what exactly you want to see done. All I've seen you (and others) answer is "not enough is being done". So, put up or shut up.

Enough to cover them until their claims are processed. How long does that take? You seem to be the expert.

How long do you think a family of four can live off 750 dollars? f you think 150 is high for a hotel room you don't travel much. I think they deserve better than a roadside dump that lets you book by the hour.

 

[tink2424]

Here is an interesting article with X links about just how bad the government has been with the response.

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024...overnments-impeding-hurricane-relief-n3795333

 

[sam_gordon]

Enough to cover them until their claims are processed. How long does that take? You seem to be the expert.

How long do you think a family of four can live off 750 dollars? f you think 150 is high for a hotel room you don't travel much. I think they deserve better than a roadside dump that lets you book by the hour.

I'm not the one saying they're doing it wrong, but not saying what needs to be done to do it "right".

Again, how much is "Enough"? Come on, give us a number. A disaster happens, you want the government there on Day 1 handing out Gift Cards with how much on them?

$150 for a hotel room AND $50 for a meal (for one person) IS "slightly high" which is what I said. That doesn't mean "unusual", but it CAN be done for less.

ETA: I'm not saying the government response is/was "good". But it could be "good enough", and probably was for some.

 

[Southernmiss]

Here is an interesting article with X links about just how bad the government has been with the response.

https://hotair.com/david-strom/2024...overnments-impeding-hurricane-relief-n3795333

Pure opinion with 'links' to other people's opinions.

 

[NotUrsula]

Part of what makes apparent delays hard to accept is that it's a modern world, and those of us who are middle-class, at least, have become used to the regular necessities of our lives always being there or instantly available when we want them. Need more money in hand? Pull out your ubiquitous pocket phone or your credit card and and use it to pay right then. Need goods when you can't get out to the store yourself? Get on your phone and arrange same-day delivery. Everything just WORKS, and it's fast. Need emergency medical care? Call 9-1-1 and expert aid arrives within minutes.

The thing about weather disasters is that they take out all the infrastructure that underpins all this instant gratification. The aftermath of a big storm is a time machine, and suddenly you're living in 1915, if not 1815. The authorities in the mountain areas have actually brought in mule trains to get supplies to people stranded in the mountains where roads have been destroyed. Mule trains! That hasn't been a normal way to deliver goods in the United States for around 100 years (Appalachia was actually one of the last places they were still used because the area was also one of the last to get paved roads), and while loaded mules are steady and can get past obstacles, they are not fast; it can take a couple of days for a mule to climb a mountain, whereas a few days before the disaster a 4WD ambulance might have done the trip in 20 minutes.

I grew up in a hurricane zone half a century ago; then as now the attic of our home contained a large cache of primitive-style camping supplies, though no one in my family EVER went camping. My mother's kitchen had a line of 8 glass kerosene lamps as "decor" sitting above the kitchen cabinets: they were kind of pretty, but they were really there for after storms. The same was true of first aid supplies; our kit was a full-sized metal suitcase that even contained splints large enough for a broken leg. My parents owned and maintained these for one reason only; the likelihood that they could be needed after a storm. We also never threw away milk cartons, because freezing water in them created blocks large enough to keep an ice chest cool for days. I can remember eating nothing but fish and canned food for a full month after Hurricane Betsy hit in 1965; all of it either caught from the bayou beside the house, from our attic cache, or handed out from the parish, because it was that long before the grocery store in our rural area was able to reopen and receive trucks. The house was built high and remained liveable, though hellishly hot, and I also remember being bored out of my mind because I couldn't really go outside for a long time; the water didn't recede for about 10 days. (Disaster recovery time is usually much better now, but people who are experienced with big storms seldom count on it; we tend to stock up enough to get by on our own for at least 2 weeks, even if doing so is an economic hardship.)

Helicopters are the still-useable modern transport miracle, but they are scarce, expensive to operate, and also tricky to fly, as they can easily be brought down by high winds or encounters with obstacles such as trees or power lines (or, in one case that I remember after a storm, a flagpole.) Most of them also have fairly small capacity; very few really large cargo-lift helicopters are in private hands, so you need the military to bring them in. If you have to bring one from the opposite coast, then it's going to take awhile. (And yes, I know that helicopters are transported over long distances by putting them aboard very large cargo planes, but how many of THOSE are instantly available at any given time?)

I'm not saying that there is no room for improvement, or that mistakes will not be made; they are inevitable, and hopefully will serve as learning experiences. It's horrible to have to wait when we know that the technology to quickly accomplish these things exists, but we have to understand that in many cases, the same reason why it is needed quickly is the reason why it often cannot be deployed very quickly: too much infrastructure damage.

PS: That first-round $$ assistance was never designed to pay for a prolonged hotel stay. There's usually enough for one hotel night, to be used if it takes that long to reach a relative or friend who will let you stay for a while. Is that something that everyone can count on? Of course not, but that's the fiscal line that has been drawn, so that more people can be helped with the funds available.