Heartbreaking news...a big reminder to be aware of wildlife on property

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I am not saying not to change the signage, but asking will it help. Pool closed signs don't help, no smoking signs don't help, no feeding birds signs don't help..and the biggest is that speed limit sign. Seems 90% of the cars on property do not adhere to that sign

I would argue that saying the signs "don't help" is completely inaccurate -- certainly it's overstating. What you're saying is it doesn't prevent EVERY occurrence of the undesirable behavior.

When it comes to SAFETY, err on the side of being MORE INFORMATIVE -- of preventing at least SOME potential tragedies. Impossible to prevent EVERY tragedy. Why not make that marginal difference by making the signs more specific to an actual potential danger -- even if remote?

Unless you're afraid to let people know they are in fact in the real world and not a LITERALLY magical land.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

We all are never going to agree on this except for that this was a horrific tragedy. My thoughts and prayers go out to this family. I pray they have the strength to continue on as one unit and not let this divide them. Tragedies sometimes end marriages, I pray it makes theirs stronger.
Hug your children and in my case, grandchild tighter, never take life for granted for tomorrow is never promised, even if in Disney

 

[mking624]

Not worded as "absolutely against" new signage, but how should one read this...

I don't see those comments as arguing against signs. I see that question of "where do you draw the line" as an honest question. Someone many pages ago said that if you had signs about alligators, the person might get bitten by a moccasin. And there are no signs for those. But they are there. I've seen plenty of snakes on property. Hey I'm all for new signs. But at what point do we draw a line? I mentioned the dangers of driving..there have been plenty of accidents on property, some leading to death. There are speed limit signs, but nothing that warns you could die from driving on property. It's not an iron-clad example, but my point is that there are obviously circumstances that we do draw a line.

That said, I think comparing the situation to eating a Mickey ice cream bar was not even nearly on the same level as this. Although, to be fair, companies have gotten tired of being sued and hearing customer complaints about such things that you'll see calorie counts right on the front (on pop cans for example).

 

[A Mickeyfan]

So true, and a point I was making earlier. Doesn't matter what the signs say, there will always be someone who completely disregards it. I have no problem with the signs being changed. But it's not going to stop someone who falls into that "elite" group that believes they can do whatever they want. We know they exist. Some of us have seen them in action. There really isn't a foolproof way to 100% guarantee everyone's safety from everything. At some point, the guest needs to take some of the responsibility.

Yes, that's my point too...the guest needs to accept some responsibility for their actions.

 

[thedonduck]

I would argue that saying the signs "don't help" is completely inaccurate -- certainly it's overstating. What you're saying is it doesn't prevent EVERY occurrence of the undesirable behavior.

When it comes to SAFETY, err on the side of being MORE INFORMATIVE -- of preventing at least SOME potential tragedies. Impossible to prevent EVERY tragedy. Why not make that marginal difference by making the signs more specific to an actual potential danger -- even if remote?

Unless you're afraid to let people know they are in fact in the real world and not a LITERALLY magical land.

I truthfully don't think Disney had the no swimming signs up because they didn't want to ruin the magic. There are a few different warning sign. Wesh 2 just showed a picture of a different sign further down that said warning- no swimming and had a picture of a snake and alligator.

My thing with the signs is people don't follow them in the parks, why would the sign be followed outside. That doesn't mean change shouldn't happen and lessons can't be learned. But a sign may keep a few out, but people will continue to ignore and feel they are above the rules

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't see those comments as arguing against signs. I see that question of "where do you draw the line" as an honest question. Someone many pages ago said that if you had signs about alligators, the person might get bitten by a moccasin. And there are no signs for those. But they are there. I've seen plenty of snakes on property. Hey I'm all for new signs. But at what point do we draw a line? I mentioned the dangers of driving..there have been plenty of accidents on property, some leading to death. There are speed limit signs, but nothing that warns you could die from driving on property. It's not an iron-clad example, but my point is that there are obviously circumstances that we do draw a line.

That said, I think comparing the situation to eating a Mickey ice cream bar was not even nearly on the same level as this. Although, to be fair, companies have gotten tired of being sued and hearing customer complaints about such things that you'll see calorie counts right on the front (on pop cans for example).

I don't buy all of that "where do you draw the line"... "do you mention snakes, bees, mosquitos". Silly.

A WARNING of "alligators and other potentially dangerous wildlife" would do it. Something like that. The key is to WARN OF A DANGER --- NOT JUST MAKE A POLITE REQUEST NOT TO SWIM.

That's the key, I think -- DANGER versus RULE/REQUEST as I mentioned earlier today. Distinctly different message.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I truthfully don't think Disney had the no swimming signs up because they didn't want to ruin the magic. There are a few different warning sign. Wesh 2 just showed a picture of a different sign further down that said warning- no swimming and had a picture of a snake and alligator.

My thing with the signs is people don't follow them in the parks, why would the sign be followed outside. That doesn't mean change shouldn't happen and lessons can't be learned. But a sign may keep a few out, but people will continue to ignore and feel they are above the rules

And if you've provided them with a REAL WARNING and they still ignore it, that's where their personal responsibility comes in.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that it is each person's responsibility to know that the zero-entry, white sandy beaches that Disney encourages people to congregate on day and night have alligators routinely roaming just feet away. SO TELL THEM. Then it's on them to act accordingly with that information.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Put the sign up. Of course it will help. Withholding information certainly doesn't help. Many international tourists would not know alligators may be in a man made lagoon in the middle of a theme park. In all my research on a future WDW trip I have not seen mention of it, and because I didn't know how could I possibly think to ask the question "Are there any dangerous creatures that might eat me at this resort?".

If I know, and I choose to still go in, and I get eaten, then that's my fault. I was warned and I chose to ignore it. I don't need to be warned of silly things that are common sense, alligators in a man made lagoon does not fall under common sense when you know nothing about it in the first place.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Put the sign up. Of course it will help. Withholding information certainly doesn't help.

Exactly!

 

[thedonduck]

And if you've provided them with a REAL WARNING and they still ignore it, that's where their personal responsibility comes in.

I don't think it's reasonable to say that it is each person's responsibility to know that the zero-entry, white sandy beaches that Disney encourages people to congregate on day and night have alligators routinely roaming just feet away. SO TELL THEM. Then it's on them to act accordingly with that information.

Completely agree!

 

[thedonduck]

Exactly!

I don't think Disney was intentionally withholding the information. More so just didn't realize that people were unaware of where wildlife can be in Fl

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I don't think Disney was intentionally withholding the information. More so just didn't realize that people were unaware of where wildlife can be in Fl

Agreed! Who originally said "When you know better, do better"?? I think it was Maya Angelou. I think Disney can do better on this one.

 

[Disneychick75]

I don't buy all of that "where do you draw the line"... "do you mention snakes, bees, mosquitos". Silly.

A WARNING of "alligators and other potentially dangerous wildlife" would do it. Something like that. The key is to WARN OF A DANGER --- NOT JUST MAKE A POLITE REQUEST NOT TO SWIM.

That's the key, I think -- DANGER versus RULE/REQUEST as I mentioned earlier today. Distinctly different message.

Signs would help to a degree, however, if it's a gator, you don't have to be in the water. If there is water beneath a shrub near a building, there s a chance that a gator could be in that shrub. There's an even larger danger that a snake is in the bush.
All of the shoulda, woulda, couldas, won't prevent a tragedy in the future because not every circumstance can be prevented. The ideas make us feel better. As I posted previously, a gator jumped out of a ditch and grabbed a dog from a leash. A friend of mine's daughter was bitten by a snake at a WDW resort and was in the hospital for days after she almost died. There is no way to be 100% safe from an accident ( a sudden event (such as a crash) that is not planned or intended and that causes damage or injury Merriam Webster).

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I would argue that saying the signs "don't help" is completely inaccurate -- certainly it's overstating. What you're saying is it doesn't prevent EVERY occurrence of the undesirable behavior.

When it comes to SAFETY, err on the side of being MORE INFORMATIVE -- of preventing at least SOME potential tragedies. Impossible to prevent EVERY tragedy. Why not make that marginal difference by making the signs more specific to an actual potential danger -- even if remote?

Unless you're afraid to let people know they are in fact in the real world and not a LITERALLY magical land.

What I mean do not help is that pool closed sign doesn't stop people from going in after hours. The no smoking doesn't stop them from smoking in the non smoking area, etc. I am not saying NOT to change the signage, just saying I don't know if it will really help. Just by reading these posts and how many think Disney should keep them safe. Disney is a real world, it's not pixie dust and magic. ..

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

What I mean do not help is that pool closed sign doesn't stop people from going in after hours. The no smoking doesn't stop them from smoking in the non smoking area, etc. ... are you saying because they aren't safety issues it's ok? I am not saying NOT to change the signage, just saying I don't know if it will really help. Just by reading these posts and how many think Disney should keep them safe. Disney is a real world, it's not pixie dust and magic. ..

I don't agree that it doesn't help to have signs. It doesn't stop EVERYONE. That doesn't mean it doesn't help to have signs -- otherwise no one would ever bother posting them about anything!

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Signs would help to a degree, however, if it's a gator, you don't have to be in the water. If there is water beneath a shrub near a building, there s a chance that a gator could be in that shrub. There's an even larger danger that a snake is in the bush.
All of the shoulda, woulda, couldas, won't prevent a tragedy in the future because not every circumstance can be prevented. The ideas make us feel better. As I posted previously, a gator jumped out of a ditch and grabbed a dog from a leash. A friend of mine's daughter was bitten by a snake at a WDW resort and was in the hospital for days after she almost died. There is no way to be 100% safe from an accident ( a sudden event (such as a crash) that is not planned or intended and that causes damage or injury Merriam Webster).

Exactly. ..there will have to be signs then on every corner saying SNAKES. Some is just a matter of FL wildlife, simple as that.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Signs would help to a degree, however, if it's a gator, you don't have to be in the water. If there is water beneath a shrub near a building, there s a chance that a gator could be in that shrub. There's an even larger danger that a snake is in the bush.
All of the shoulda, woulda, couldas, won't prevent a tragedy in the future because not every circumstance can be prevented. The ideas make us feel better. As I posted previously, a gator jumped out of a ditch and grabbed a dog from a leash. A friend of mine's daughter was bitten by a snake at a WDW resort and was in the hospital for days after she almost died. There is no way to be 100% safe from an accident ( a sudden event (such as a crash) that is not planned or intended and that causes damage or injury Merriam Webster).

Agreed. If I see a sign that says alligators live in those waters, I am now armed with information that I might not have been before. How close I choose to get to that water is on me.

And again -- I am not BLAMING Disney for this. These are obviously incredibly rare occurrences, they diligently patrol, etc. I do think they can do better wrt signage now that broadcasts around the country are making it abundantly clear that these animals' presence in these lakes surprises MANY people.

 

[Sammie]

Put the sign up. Of course it will help. Withholding information certainly doesn't help. Many international tourists would not know alligators may be in a man made lagoon in the middle of a theme park. In all my research on a future WDW trip I have not seen mention of it, and because I didn't know how could I possibly think to ask the question "Are there any dangerous creatures that might eat me at this resort?".

If I know, and I choose to still go in, and I get eaten, then that's my fault. I was warned and I chose to ignore it. I don't need to be warned of silly things that are common sense, alligators in a man made lagoon does not fall under common sense when you know nothing about it in the first place.

It is a man made lagoon, connected to a natural lake that is connected by canals that connect to other bodies of fresh water.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I don't agree that it doesn't help to have signs. It doesn't stop EVERYONE. That doesn't mean it doesn't help to have signs -- otherwise no one would ever bother posting them about anything!

Got ya. .I misunderstood

 

[cruisingtwins]

I

I don't think Disney was intentionally withholding the information. More so just didn't realize that people were unaware of where wildlife can be in Fl

How are people supposed to know there were alligators there if no one tells them and there are no signs around.