Heartbreaking news...a big reminder to be aware of wildlife on property

[kellyjeanie]

One of these threads has a picture of a little boy standing in the spot where it happened about a half-hour before the incident. It's easy to see how a little boy could be a foot away from where the water meets the sand, and the water would be barely up to his ankle.

Just speaking for myself:

While I don't know for sure, I originally quoted the Sherrifs departments news conference last night. They said the father "has a minor scratch".
Granted that may not tell the entire story, but I would expect fighting a gator would be worse.

MG

I picture an alligator not wanting to fight with an adult man, not wanting to open its jaws to let go of what it already had - just wanting to take its prize back into the water. So it's possible it wasn't much of a fight, just the man trying to grab the alligator and the alligator slipping away, into the dark water, and the scratches on the man coming from the roughness of the alligator skin.

 

[Duckiedee]

I always thought they had methods to keep alligators out of the park waters. That's what I thought. Were it my child, I'd be furious at the lack of proper signage. Furious.

I would lose my ****. I'm a little sick to my stomach right now. We stayed at CSR last time and the paths all circle the water. Am I scared for the future? No. But "No Swimming" here either means dangerous levels of bacteria - which is added to the signage, or you CAN put your feet in - but do not swim as there may be undertows, or something jagged underneath. Usually there are signs to state this as well.

 

[WuvEeyore]

I thought the implication was that there are gators in our subways? teenage mutant ninja gators, perhaps.

Everyone knows the gators are in the sewers, not the subways.

 

[Eastern]

People are specifically discussing the sign saying "no swimming" to be adequate and having the same meaning as "stay out of water" or "danger alligators". People are also saying that the parents are at fault for not perceiving this particular risk.

They do not need the signs everywhere. However.... they darn well need them in places they are calling people to congregate and then say....oh...but stay every inch out of the water because there are non-disclosed dangers here and Disney conveys that to the public with a sign that simply says "no swimming". Then do not call people there in the first place if you can not spend the extra $10 to mention alligator risk or wildlife danger risk.

People are saying the "no swimming sign" should have conveyed this danger. I say no way. The fact that it has not happened before in disney is just lucky. Also they decided it was better to not put the alligator/wildlife sign there for their own reasons not because they felt "no swimming" was adequate or because of the cost of a more specific sign. Probably because if they had "danger alligator" signs they would be calling attention to something they do not want people to think about while they are sitting back enjoying.

The fact is they did put a sign of no swimming. If part of the reason for that was the danger of alligators then that in no way conveyed that risk and did not and would not stop someone from thinking putting their feet in the water a few inches would be dangerous.

Well said.

 

[ITALIANNYC]

Random thought. Must be real awkward going through the safari at animal kingdom seeing gators. I wonder if they brought them in

 

[dnkmmw]

The thing is - I research Disney to death - I have not seen or heard of this anywhere. Florida has alligators - sure, but Disney - maybe during the safari or on the Jungle Cruise. I honestly would never think I had to protect my kids from alligators besides making sure they don't fall out of the boat on the Jungle Cruise.

I would be more apt to be careful of standing water on the side of the road, after learning Alligators aren't JUST in the bayou, vs at the beach where they hold activities all the time and have chairs and hammocks all over.

I'll bet most people who have been to Canada don't know you don't just hit our Moose with a car - but it will TAKE OUT your car they are so huge... and if you see a moose in the road, turn off your car lights and slowly back away your car because they may also CHARGE you. That's not usually written in Canadian Tourism books - it is something you learn once you are in the place you are staying.

OP: I am not picking on you and absolutely do not mean any disrespect by this post, but I am really having a hard time understanding this and hope maybe someone can explain it to me.

I have been to Canada and I'll actually be going to Whistler again in a few weeks. I know that Whistler is a tourist attraction with a mad-made village, but it would never occur to me to think that somehow bears have been removed from Whistler. Can anyone explain to me where the disconnect comes in with knowing that alligators are all over in Florida, but not realizing they would be at WDW?

 

[Duckiedee]

I'm not an expert, but, as I understand it, most fatalities occur while swimming in the water, BUT, young children, like this poor boy's age, tend to be grabbed at the shoreline, if for no other reason than that they would not be out swimming as they are too young. Though, the chances of this happening to anyone are exceedingly small.

So, as one article puts it:
"Since 1973, 23 people have been killed by wild alligators in Florida, according to data compiled by the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission. Those fatalities were among 383 unprovoked bites not caused by someone handling or intentionally harassing an alligator.

Eight children, ages 2 to 16, were among the fatalities. Five died while swimming in lakes, rivers and canals. The youngest victims were killed near lakes, including a 2-year-old girl who wandered 700 feet from her fenced backyard and a 3-year-old boy who left a roped-off swimming area in a county park to pick lily pads."

Exactly - and the fact that - 23 deaths in 43 years - it's not like it is something that happens often. Alligators normally do not attack humans. Disney truly may have felt this wasn't a danger... that said - as I read somewhere in this thread - there was an incident in 1983? If that is so - they should have changed the signage then. I would have once my rose-coloured glasses that this likely wouldn't have happened were taken off.

 

[Sammie]

Sadly Disney is too nice to its guests. They don't want to scare and alarm so graphic signs that say Gators, were not there. And before this I would have agreed they were not needed. But this incident has shown to me and hopefully to Disney, that people are not very educated about the dangers of gators in Florida. They are everywhere in central Florida and just because you have never seen one does not mean they are not there. We always see them but we look for them.

This gator I can assure you has been fed before by humans and lost its natural fear of people and had begun to associate people with food. They are as much to blame as anyone in this. In Florida it is against the law to feed gators. Disney needs to quit being nice and call the sheriff on people breaking this law and have then fined and escorted off property. I think this is what is so sad to me is that people that will not do as they should have contributed to this little boy losing his life.

I am sure new signage will be forth coming and maybe something like the ones at Grand Cypress Resort near Downtown Disney.

 

[DisneyWorldbuff]

Random thought. Must be real awkward going through the safari at animal kingdom seeing gators. I wonder if they brought them in

I believe those are crocodiles in the Safari ride.

 

[Disneyliscious]

If a sign says "no swimming" then I know not to submerge myself in the water where my body, except for possibly my feet, does not touch the ground (or where the water is deep enough for that to happen). It does not suggest to me that I shouldn't wade in the edge. Thats honestly how I would interpret that.

If a sign says "Beware of Aligators" or "Stay out of water, Aligators present" then you can bet I'm not even going near the shoreline.

Does anyone know how the sign was actually worded on the GF beach?

 

[A Mickeyfan]

The thing is - I research Disney to death - I have not seen or heard of this anywhere. Florida has alligators - sure, but Disney - maybe during the safari or on the Jungle Cruise. I honestly would never think I had to protect my kids from alligators besides making sure they don't fall out of the boat on the Jungle Cruise.

I would be more apt to be careful of standing water on the side of the road, after learning Alligators aren't JUST in the bayou, vs at the beach where they hold activities all the time and have chairs and hammocks all over.

I'll bet most people who have been to Canada don't know you don't just hit our Moose with a car - but it will TAKE OUT your car they are so huge... and if you see a moose in the road, turn off your car lights and slowly back away your car because they may also CHARGE you. That's not usually written in Canadian Tourism books - it is something you learn once you are in the place you are staying.

You find these things out by researching the State, the environment you are going into. No tourist destination is going to warn you in their flyers. OMG, have you ever been to Mexico lol do the resort brochures tell you to be careful out on some of the streets for you will be robbed. Do they tell you not to drink the water etc.. you have to research everything on where you are going. While Disney is a resort destination, it's built on swamp and FL is notorious for specific wildlife. Common sense is going to tell you to expect it. It's just that many guests truly see Disney as really magical and its not. It's like any other resort destination, it's got teal world issues. This entire situation is so sad. I hope others have opened their eyes to their surroundings there.

 

[ITALIANNYC]

Give me a break on people blaming Disney for this.

This has never happened like this before and now all of a sudden everyone is complaining that there is no gator signs? A majority of people know damn well there are gators everywhere in Florida, and nobody cared before this happened. Everyone is so quick to blame one person or the other.

A father lost his son, while attempting to rescue him. You can not even imagine the HORROR and what he is going through.

Disney is not some bad company. They do EVERYTHING possible to protect its guests.

Now everyone has an issue with them? Gimme a break

Just keep your eyes open in all situations. Don't let your children be alone near water that you are not allowed to swim in, and thats that.

 

[andyman8]

When people talk about division in this country, this thread is an example of what they're talking about. Within hours of what is an absolutely horrendous tragedy occurring, people are already arguing about whose fault it is and other stuff that, in all honestly, is irrelevant. Here's what matters: a family forever lost their 2 year-old-baby on vacation at what is supposed to be the most magical place on Earth. Mind you, this is on the heals of a historic tragedy just minutes down the road and increasing safety concerns in the parks. In my opinion, nobody sitting hundreds or thousands of miles away typing on their keyboards behind a computer screen has any place in assigning blame or speculating about what happened. Right now, these parents (and the poor people who were at the GF around them whose vacations I'm sure have been unimaginably marred as well) needs our prayers and our love. If all you can give them is hate, then you might very well be part of the division problem in this country.

Could this tragedy have been prevented? Possibly. Should they have been swimming or even wading in the lakes? No, but just because they broke rules that many people don't understand (when Disney uses the verbiage "beaches" it does imply swimming) does not mean they should be subject to this kind of unimaginable fate. Like another PP said, I want to believe that those judging are doing so in an effort to make them feel safer, that this only happened because this family was breaking the rules, and because their family always follows them, they are safe from this sort of attack. But even I can be a Monday morning quarterback. Unfortunately, and the last few days certainly serve as a reminder, no matter how many rules you follow you still are vulnerable. I've seen gators walk right over one of the holes on one of the Disney Golf Courses. Does following rules keep you safer? Of course and everyone should, but I'm just asking that people not resort to judgement and hate, as we've all already seen far too much of that in the last few days.

It truly has been an unimaginable rough few days for WDW. I know most of the CMs have certainly felt it, so I'm just asking everyone who visits in the next few weeks to keep that in mind and be especially kind and courteous to the CMs. It cannot be easy to see the place you work show up at the top of the front page of CNN.com for the last few days. I know they, as well as WDW as whole, will persevere and continue to make even-more-needed magic for their guests during these tough times. That's why I return so frequently and why I proudly call myself a Disney fan. I've been visiting WDW (a pass holder for most of those years) for 17 years, and I've seen them get through 9/11, back-to-back hurricanes, and much more, so I know they will get through this and help their guests, many of which may also be struggling with all this incredibly sad news, get through it. That, I think, is the real magic of Disney: leaving the stresses and pressures of reality momentarily at the gate, something that some people need now more than ever.

And to the few people I've seen questioning if they should continue with their upcoming WDW trips, I beg you to please, please follow through with your vacation plans. I'm going in two weeks for the Fourth of July holiday and remain incredibly excited (happen to be going with someone who was at the Pulse nightclub two weeks prior to the shooting). Don't let hate and fear win. Show the CMs that you appreciate them profusely and that you stand with them and Orlando. Show your friends and family at home that you are a proud fan of Disney and Orlando and will support them regardless of the news. Yesterday, I toured Pearl Harbor to find the flags there at half-mast. It reminded me that, as scary as things may seem right now, we've been here before, and we've united and persevered through these kind of tough times before. We did so not by fighting, finger pointing, and hating but rather by coming together, caring for each other, and going about our normal lives. Do what you can do to help. Most importantly, whether it be at WDW, at home, or on an internet message board, spread love and compassion.

Sorry for the long post; I just needed to get it off my chest.

 

[2pinwheels]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/healt...dex.html?campaign_id=A100&campaign_type=Email

 

[Nebraska_Disney]

First off ... This is extremely sad. Its hard to imagine what that poor child went through. I pray God will deliver strength to the family. There is a part of me that still believes the child is somewhere safe and alive. It's just too hard to imagine anything different. I'm praying for him.

That said... I know this changes how I personally view the SSL and any other body of water. I can recall taking photos in front of the Polynesian on the "beach" and not thinking twice about what could possibly come out of the water. Not everyone comes from a place where wildlife plays a factor in how one goes about their day. I refuse to blame the family. No one goes to WDW thinking they have to be THAT cautious especially when staying onsite and one of the most expensive hotels on property.

What would the cost of a resort have to do with the fact that wildlife will go where they want to go and the property owners can't do much about it ? Does Mickey have a magic wand that clears the normal habits of wildlife away? People amaze me

 

[monkistan]

you're right, in the subway we just have CHUDs.

Everyone knows the gators are in the sewers, not the subways.

 

[Eastern]

Disney is not some bad company. They do EVERYTHING possible to protect its guests.

Obviously not.

 

[JodyLynC]

If you saw a sign on a nice lawn that said "No Walking on the Grass" would you believe that it was ok to run, skip or hop on the grass?

Generally the signs state "Keep of the Grass" so that is not a good example.

 

[Anonomom]

I'm one of those who would NEVER have thought of Alligators posing a danger on the WDW beaches. Am I aware that there are gators on property? Sure. I've never seen one, but I've heard of the one that hangs out near Splash Mountain. But I'm aware in the sense of "if you keep any eye out, you may see an alligator far away from you in a body of water, but it's likely small and Disney will remove it when it gets big." It would not have occurred to me, looking at a nice beach with lounge chairs where activities were held at dusk and beyond, that there might possibly be an alligator large enough to eat a human lurking inches away and posing an immediate danger. I daresay it hadn't really occurred to Disney, either, or its signs would have said "Stay out of the Water."

Seems to me like this family was doing exactly what Disney invites families to do -- enjoying the beach in the evening. I can't see any rational way of faulting them for this absolutely horrific tragedy.

 

[DnA2010]

People do not read signs. I'm not being flip when I say this - we have signs up at our business that states our hours in bold, clearly at the person's eye-line when they reach the door. It never fails, 20 people a day will pull on the lobby door, not bother to read the sign, walk to the other side of the building to the other main entrance, pull on that door, ignore that sign, and walk away muttering to themselves about the fact that we are not open. Our business has been open for 50 years, the hours don't change and we live in a town of 15,000 people - by the numbers, every single person MUST have pulled on that doors at least once, yet it still happens every single day. Because the signs - even clearly visible - do not register because they want something and they want it on their timetable.

This is a tragedy, but let's not think a sign would make a difference to the outcome. I am very much landlocked but I know to be on the lookout for snakes and alligators when we vacation in Florida, just as I knew to be on the lookout for bears when we were in Alaska. A sign stating the obvious would not deter anyone because it would just be background noise that the average vacationer would not pay attention to.

How many of us have stood and read all of Disney's rules and warnings at every posted location? Anyone? Anyone?

We cannot build a bubble around every dangerous thing in this world - warning labels and signs are strictly there to keep lawsuits to a minimum. Common sense has to come into play the vast majority of the time and when it doesn't, these tragic accidents are blown up all over the place. I am heartbroken for this family - they are experiencing something that no family should ever have to go through and it will haunt them for the rest of their lives, but I also don't think Disney was negligent. I am sure that no sign would have changed this horrific outcome.

Like many others, I knew nothing of the gator situation- I guarantee you, if there was a sign that depicted the gator as shown in previous threads, I would stay away from the water's edge. Otherwise, I may have strolled along the water's edge- I wouldn't find that abnormal, given the beach setting.