Hear me out on this...

[padalyn]

MrInfernoGirl - you have made such major steps in understanding, acceptance and willingness to see things in a different light - I think that needs to be recognized. Congrats!!

Tell me if I am wrong, I am still trying to figure out why people are so against gays and gay marriage.

People who are against the marriage are more against it because of the thought of people beating the system and getting benefits, than of the relgious aspect. Meaning two guys move into together say they are gay get medical and tax benefits and such; beating out those who struggle.

If this is the case they need to look at it again, illegals and I am sure there are hetro doing it already. Right?

Most people are not against lesbians as must as just gay men because of the image of sex, that media has played out to public. Lesibans because its projected different as if there is a chance or more exotic.

wow - I think that the whole thing is based in 2 areas - first - the right moral groups (those who think that anything that isn't just like themselves is evil or inherently wrong yadda yadda yadda) are so afraid that we "gays" might just be more "normal" than they think we are. the whole thing doesn't even seem to be about benefits or legal rights - more that it gives a status to that which is unacceptable to them. They will be forces to see us...and they so don't want to!

To the second part - I think that most straight men can place themselves in the postiion of either lesbian in fantasy - but can't do so with either man. [true story - my hunny and I have actually had men approach us and ask if they can watch us make love - TOTAL STRANGERS!]

Thus, again - the fear rears it's ugly head. They just can't ignore what happens behind closed doors. It should stay there. I can't say that I (as a lesbian) would like to see other women making out in public. This goes for all combinations of genders - I don't really want to see what people do in the privacy of their relationship.

yeah one more,
I read this and wondered if its true or not since most 63.2555 stadstics are false

they say most people are turned gay because of a tramaic(sp?) evnet in thier life. Like a bad touch if you get my meaning.

which leads me into this one,
are people born gay or is only developed by surrounding cultrul(sp?) or life experiences?

This has been a long standing debate...nuture or nature. This is the basis for a lot of questions about society and folks in general. there are whole books written creating arguements for both sides of this debate. Serial killers fall into the same debate (NO WE ARE NOT KILLERS!!), as do many other issues. Each person has their own beliefs and like religion some topics are best left alone.

Some believe that one is gay from birth, other's believe it is a conscious choice. Some argue that it is from trauma (I personally don't really believe this one). there have been studies - I am not sure I could find them no matter how hard I looked (and that isn't very hard - believe me!) but as you state - statistics can be manipulated to make any statement seem true. have you seen the commercial for a cable company that is trying to make it seem like they are holding out alright against the dish company? nuf said.

crawling off my soapbox


let the hijacking continue (to the fourth degree now I think)

 

[chip007]

My DH works for a company where they offer full benefits to domestic partners, same as DH and I get as a married straight couple. Health insurance, life insurance, adoption assistance, the list of benefits available is staggering.

Just a quick comment:

I work for a similar company, and my partner is covered on my health insurance plan. BUT at the end of the year, I have to pay extra taxes on her coverage, which a married couple does not have to pay, because the government considers it extra compensation to me. The fact that we are registered domestic partners doesn't matter to the government, even though we were required to register in order to be covered on the health plan.

In short, private companies may be doing great work towards equality, but the government needs to do more.

End of soap box for the morning.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

Just a quick comment:

I work for a similar company, and my partner is covered on my health insurance plan. BUT at the end of the year, I have to pay extra taxes on her coverage, which a married couple does not have to pay, because the government considers it extra compensation to me. The fact that we are registered domestic partners doesn't matter to the government, even though we were required to register in order to be covered on the health plan.

In short, private companies may be doing great work towards equality, but the government needs to do more.

End of soap box for the morning.

Wow! I had no idea!
My point was that some gay couples are able to sort of skirt not being married in some areas, but not in others. Your situation proves that even when companies do the right thing you still aren't getting the same benefits. That's crummy!

 

[padalyn]

Just a quick comment:

I work for a similar company, and my partner is covered on my health insurance plan. BUT at the end of the year, I have to pay extra taxes on her coverage, which a married couple does not have to pay, because the government considers it extra compensation to me. The fact that we are registered domestic partners doesn't matter to the government, even though we were required to register in order to be covered on the health plan.

In short, private companies may be doing great work towards equality, but the government needs to do more.

End of soap box for the morning.

Hmm - I wonder what would happen in my case...I can get hunny listed on my benefits (after proving we have been living together for over one year and a few other requirements) A hetero couple simply has to provide the marriage license - no time requirement. Since I would be paying for a portion of the benefits I wonder if the other portion would require me to pay the taxes. My hospital is self insured. This means the money is put into a "slush" fund that a provider manages.

I would have to check into that one. Thanks for the insight!

On another note - there are many restrictions about hospital visitation that are slowly being changed but not across the board. In some Intensive Care Units - significant others are not listed as family, and thus are not allowed to visit. Bummer....

 

[wallyb]

Hmm - I wonder what would happen in my case...I can get hunny listed on my benefits (after proving we have been living together for over one year and a few other requirements) A hetero couple simply has to provide the marriage license - no time requirement. Since I would be paying for a portion of the benefits I wonder if the other portion would require me to pay the taxes. My hospital is self insured. This means the money is put into a "slush" fund that a provider manages.

I would have to check into that one. Thanks for the insight!

I got to check with Paul and see if we get hit with extra tax too.
He works for the state. My little state worker.

On another note - there are many restrictions about hospital visitation that are slowly being changed but not across the board. In some Intensive Care Units - significant others are not listed as family, and thus are not allowed to visit. Bummer....

This is exactly why I carrie a (pocket size) copy of our marriage license.

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

sorry it sounded that way.
Its not a step backward...let me explain.

I am glad to hear it.

I beleive anyone can come to this country as long as they do it legally. If they have a worker visa so be it, work then leave. You ahve a student visa do school then leave. My father came here from Holland and spent his life savings doing so, left his family there. He came to the US to become who ever he will be but did it legally. Of course this was in the 50s so things were different letter not email and making that call just wasnt so easy.

America is built on just such stories. That diversity is a source of our strength and cultural richness. I will tell you though, the original inhabitants of our continent would argue the fundamental legality of any kind of European immigration and the resulting philosophy of manifest destiny... but that particular ship has sailed -- so to speak. (I couldn't help myself on that one. Stop me PLEASE before I pun more!)

Because of his strong beliefs I believe you are American not whateverAmerican just American, love it or leave it. You can be proud of where your from but its either or. You have the freedom to talk bad about it or whats wrong with it but if its so bad move to a better place.

Here we differ. I think there is a viable third option. That is: Love it, change it, and make it better.

Now back to the topic started...I am really starting to understand.

I apologize for the temporary detour but I think most folks here would agree with Dr. King -- Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. And of course, just because an act is legal (I'm talking forced relocation of people whose crimes include having brown skin, speaking Spanish, and wanting to do work no Anglo-american would care to lower themselves to do, here) it is not necessarily just.

Off my soapbox now.

 

[wallyb]

America is built on just such stories. That diversity is a source of our strength and cultural richness. I will tell you though, the original inhabitants of our continent would argue the fundamental legality of any kind of European immigration and the resulting philosophy of manifest destiny... but that particular ship has sailed -- so to speak. (I couldn't help myself on that one. Stop me PLEASE before I pun more!)

Wow - manifest destiny- so early in the day!

You go!

 

[wallyb]

I'll look into it!

look into this too...
http://www.5-wits.com/home/
your kid might love it.

I've always wanted to do it - I've just gotta get a "cover" kid so I can go.
My nephew is a bit young for it right now I fear.

FYI - right near Fenway Park

 

[Tigger&Belle]

look into this too...
http://www.5-wits.com/home/
your kid might love it.

I've always wanted to do it - I've just gotta get a "cover" kid so I can go.
My nephew is a bit young for it right now I fear.

FYI - right near Fenway Park

No kids on this trip.

 

[wallyb]

No kids on this trip.

Well - now that I read the web site -
I guess it's really for all ages - skewing more adult.
But this Pharaoh's tomb mystery / interactive entertainment /
Stepping into an Indiana Jones movie / game / thingy - sounds so fun.

 

[npmommie]

look into this too...
http://www.5-wits.com/home/
your kid might love it.

I've always wanted to do it - I've just gotta get a "cover" kid so I can go.
My nephew is a bit young for it right now I fear.

FYI - right near Fenway Park

A friend of mine went with her kids and they all loved this!

 

[bigDISdaddy]

Let me preface my post here. I am a straight guy, who has a gay younger brother, so much of this hits home for me. I don't know when he realized he was gay, but I know most us of knew before he "came out" to my parents. I know he had really difficult time coming to grips with his gayness(is this a word?). Unfortunately we have never sat down and discussed at lenght the turmoil he put himself through, I know he's just not comfortable talking about it with me, maybe someday he will, I hope. I know he was really worried about my older brother (swat cop sniper) and myself (car parts guy) would take it. This was the only thing that ever bothered me about my brother being gay, the fact that he thought I would not accept him for who he is.
I told him as long as he is happy, I am great with anything he does in personal life. He seems to be getting along better in his life now, he has moved to CA. with his partner and seems very happy.
Enough of me pouring my heart out, I'msure youve seen enough. Not that I need a reason , but that's what drew me into this post.


I have read this entire thread, and love how it has come together the way it has.
I thought it was pretty brave of Mr. Infernogirl to come on and ask his original question. I also thought it was great the way some of you responded to his question. While I was (at first) a little disappointed in some of the early responses. IMHO it is just as important for the gay community to accept a straight person who does not accept their lifestyle(because we just don't understand)as it is for a straight person to accept that gay people are just like us....just gay. (boy I hope that came out like it sounded in my head) Most times it's just a matter of not being informed, or being informed the wrong way.(the main stream media only cares about ratings, not about how they make people look)

I personally could not even picture "the men in chaps with no pants under, men in thongs, and women in transparent togas grinding to pulsing music." walking down main street Disney.

I have to say I am really impressed with the people on both sides here, without open honest dialouge we will never understand one another as people, not just gay or straight. So kudos to everyone involved, and thanks for an entertaining thread.

 

[rpmdfw]

Let me preface my post here. I am a straight guy, who has a gay younger brother, so much of this hits home for me. I don't know when he realized he was gay, but I know most us of knew before he "came out" to my parents. I know he had really difficult time coming to grips with his gayness(is this a word?). Unfortunately we have never sat down and discussed at lenght the turmoil he put himself through, I know he's just not comfortable talking about it with me, maybe someday he will, I hope. I know he was really worried about my older brother (swat cop sniper) and myself (car parts guy) would take it. This was the only thing that ever bothered me about my brother being gay, the fact that he thought I would not accept him for who he is.
I told him as long as he is happy, I am great with anything he does in personal life. He seems to be getting along better in his life now, he has moved to CA. with his partner and seems very happy.
Enough of me pouring my heart out, I'msure youve seen enough. Not that I need a reason , but that's what drew me into this post.


I have read this entire thread, and love how it has come together the way it has.
I thought it was pretty brave of Mr. Infernogirl to come on and ask his original question. I also thought it was great the way some of you responded to his question. While I was (at first) a little disappointed in some of the early responses. IMHO it is just as important for the gay community to accept a straight person who does not accept their lifestyle(because we just don't understand)as it is for a straight person to accept that gay people are just like us....just gay. (boy I hope that came out like it sounded in my head) Most times it's just a matter of not being informed, or being informed the wrong way.(the main stream media only cares about ratings, not about how they make people look)

I personally could not even picture "the men in chaps with no pants under, men in thongs, and women in transparent togas grinding to pulsing music." walking down main street Disney.

I have to say I am really impressed with the people on both sides here, without open honest dialouge we will never understand one another as people, not just gay or straight. So kudos to eveyone involved, and thanks for an entertaining thread.

Thank YOU for adding your perspective. Feel free to jump in and participate whenever you want.

I hope your brother knows how lucky he is to have you for a brother.

 

[zulemara]

Polls show that frequency of worship service attendance is a factor in the opposition to gay marriage. According to an August 2007 survey by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life and the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, 55% of Americans oppose gay marriage, with 36% favoring it. But those with a high frequency of church attendance oppose it by a substantially wider margin (73% in opposition vs. 21% in favor). Opposition among white evangelicals, regardless of frequency of church attendance, is even higher -- at 81%. A majority of black Protestants (64%) and Latino Catholics (52%)3 also oppose gay marriage, as do pluralities of white, non-Hispanic Catholics (49%) and white mainline Protestants (47%). Only among Americans without a religious affiliation does a majority (60%) express support.

However, a 2006 Pew survey found that sizable majorities of white mainline Protestants (66%), Catholics (63%) and those without a religious affiliation (78%) favor allowing homosexual couples to enter into civil unions that grant most of the legal rights of marriage without the title. The general public also supports civil unions (54% in favor vs. 42% in opposition). As with gay marriage, white evangelicals (66%), black Protestants (62%) and frequent church attenders (60%) stand out for their opposition to civil unions.4

And this is why I can't stand the majority of organized religions, but that's another topic

 

[tiggr33]

To the second part - I think that most straight men can place themselves in the postiion of either lesbian in fantasy - but can't do so with either man. [true story - my hunny and I have actually had men approach us and ask if they can watch us make love - TOTAL STRANGERS!

We have?!?!?! I know we have gotten the "looks" and I always respond with curt "no you can't", but I dont remember someone actually saying it?

Just a quick comment:

I work for a similar company, and my partner is covered on my health insurance plan........In short, private companies may be doing great work towards equality, but the government needs to do more.

Or in the case of Michigan they need to do less. The Michagan Supreme Court ruling last week was disgusting .

 

[Vavy]

=Timon-n-Pumbaa
...I can not totally address your concerns, and I am not sure that anyone can. This is an issue that caused me years of pain and soul searching and prayer. I was raised Baptist. I had been taught from an early age in the church that it was wrong. I was beaten by my mother when I was 9 because a girl that was 2 years older than me kissed me and we were caught in the act by our mothers. So, for sure the lesson that two girls should not be together was learned that day. Later on, the waters muddied a bit. My parents were making a will and asked me who I wanted to have take care of me if they passed. I chose the option of my mother's cousin. It was then explained to me that "uncle Michael" wasn't really my uncle and that he and cousin Pat were "together". So, I was then taught that two men being together could sometimes be ok. So, that was confusing. I knew how I felt deep inside, but I remembered that beating from when I was 9 and all of those sermons at church. When I finally got so miserable with myself that I knew that I couldn't deny where my heart was trying to take me, I had a major point to work/grieve through. What about my relationship with God?

Basically, it came down to very personal discussions with God. I had a lot of them. In the end, I chose to embrace the positive ideas about being a child of God, that God didn't make mistakes and that for every person here on Earth, there is a mate. I feel that as a child of God, that I am not a mistake and I am certainly entitled to be happy and joyful. I have been blessed, yes, I call Corey "My gift from God" because she is nothing short of that. I went through a lot of stuff to get to the point in my life where I could be the person that was right for her to be with and to love forever. We are good to and for each other. I can't imagine my life without her. I am happy to say that I still have a close personal relationship with God. I still take Jesus Christ to be my Lord and Savior. I believe in the miracle of redemption through the blood of Jesus Christ and that God knows my heart. I believe that I am saved and that my relationship with Corey is a gift from God.

Now, as to the issue of Marriage. In this country, there is this whole idea/law about there being a separation of church and state. I view my civil right to Marriage as being a legal issue, not a religious issue. One day, we are going to find ourselves with enough open minded folks in power that can see past the $$$ thrown at them from the religious PAC's and maybe we can have the rights that everyone else has in this country.

Beautifully put. I am going to print this off for my DH who was concerned because we are coming in at the tail end of Gay Days (thus I came to this thread to get a feel for the event). You are a beautiful person T&P and you are correct. God does NOT make mistakes!

 

[Saxton]

yeah one more,
I read this and wondered if its true or not since most 63.2555 stadstics are false

they say most people are turned gay because of a tramaic(sp?) evnet in thier life. Like a bad touch if you get my meaning.

which leads me into this one,
are people born gay or is only developed by surrounding cultrul(sp?) or life experiences?

I know that I was born this way, no doubt about it. I had a perfect childhood with two loving parents, siblings, and grandparents. There wasn't any pain or trauma. I knew early on that I was 'different' and it wasn't the result of anything, it was just who I was.

 

[Saxton]

Now back to the topic started...I am really starting to understand.

Mr. Infernogirl - I have to say that I am very impressed, you're asking questions and you're being honest and open about everything. Mrs. Infernogirl has every right to be mighty happy & proud.

 

[TammieLand]

That's it - I'm all teary eyed and emotional..

I'm calling my therapist and tellin' her I'm quittin' her now that I've found these boards - Think of the money I'm saving and all the shoes I can purchase.....

Ya'll are the greatest -

 

[rpmdfw]

That's it - I'm all teary eyed and emotional..

I'm calling my therapist and tellin' her I'm quittin' her now that I've found these boards - Think of the money I'm saving and all the shoes I can purchase.....

Ya'll are the greatest -

Shoes? SHOES!?!?!?

If we're saving you all that money, I think you ought to spend it on us!

Drinks are on Tammieland!

I'll have a magarita!