Heads up cruisers- are you flying DELTA??

[Aisling]

The point you're missing--what about weather and mechanical problems. OP request doesn't solve the problem.

Lewisc,

Yes, I did miss this point, unpreventable circumstances in which a minor might HAVE TO be bumped along with everyone else. Hmmm... Then there cannot be a law preventing minors from being bumped.
Maybe there should be something printed on the ticket when you purchase it saying that minors are not exempt from being bumped. I say this because I think many parents, myself included, take it for granted that anyone under 18 would not be bumped. Many people don't know that this can happen. If there was something to tell us at the time of purchase, we could make a decision to pay for an escort or not.

 

[CarolA]

NOTE TO MODERATOR!

Please move this thread to the debate board. Personally I think we have LONG ago left transportation to or within Disney.

Also if ALL your child is capable of doing is flying point A to B without anything going wrong, then they are NOT capable of flying alone regardless of if they are 17 or 21!

Also, the story keeps getting new twists. My original impression was that Delta left an UNESCORTED minor in a hotel room. I now find that a family member stayed with her! Whole new situation!

 

[sgtdisney]

It is unfortunate that the OP was not aware of all the issues that can arise during airline travel that could effect her underage daughter. This post was good in the fact that it will educate parents to be aware that unless you pay for your child to have underage priveledges they will be treated as a regular passenger in terms of bumping priority.

My point is this, if you are buying a ticket on an airline and NOT informing that airline that you have an underage passenger, how are they supposed to know this? Look at it this way, on the airlines it is all about fare class. They have multitudes of codes to determine your priority on the flight. People may not be aware of this, maybe they are. People paying the lower fares have a lower priority. That is a fact of life. The airlines have a policy in effect to give underage passengers special priveledges. They charge a fee for this. Every single thing the airline does that is 'extra' they charge a fee for. The airlines also have a policy in effect that does not permit unattended children to fly on the last flight out of an airport. Again, they need to know you have an unattended minor flying to inform you of this.

Regulating something that is already being handled by the airlines seems like overkill to me. If the airlines get enough pressure in regard to this, they will just forbid anyone under 18 to fly without an adult.

I guess my question is, if you have a child that you don't want to be subjected to all the things a normal airline passenger can be, why not pay the $40? It would seem cheap to me to get the peace of mind that your child would be on the flight. I mean Southwest makes you buy 2 seats if you need them, airlines charge to give your child sprecial boarding priority. It is basically an insurance policy. And just in case people are wondering, paying this $40 does NOT mean there will be a babysitter sitting next to the child on the plane. It means that there will be an agent there on the ground to make sure that they make connections, make sure that the are not bumped and make sure that they are not stuck in a city overnight.

 

[dvc guy]

Maybe I missed this point, DD was on the plane and seated and they came onto the aircraft and took her off??

Did she board when her row was called or did she wait till final boarding call. I have never seen anyone unboarded from an aircraft without their consent.


I have been seated on planes when other traveler have had the same seat assignment, no one ever tried to remove me from the seat( not that I would have moved). While I have not seen seats assigned to more than one person in a while , I am sure it still happens on occacasion

 

[Lewisc]

DVC guy--Many of us are surprised if not skeptical. If all the facts we were given (normal class ticket, checked in hours early, already in the plane) are accurate why was she deplanned? Sounds like Delta didn't follow the proper procedures.

 

[CarolA]

OK guys I have a friend who works for Delta. I called him. He pretty much said that the ONLY way they would de-plane you was if you Volunteered or if you were a non-rev. His statement was that if you were involuntarily bumped (which he indicated happens once in a blue moon) your boarding pass would have been invalid and you would not have been allowed on the plane.

I am NOT going to call him again and ask him any questions. This information was just provided as Food for thought!

 

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by ducklite
Have you ever thought that your daughter was the only person travelling as an individual traveler?

Would you rather have had them break up a family?

Personally I am more concerned with teens being bumped overnight then the airlines discomfort or inconvenience. If they had to pay to bump more then one person my heart would go out to them but at least a teen would not be alone in a hotel over night.

As I've said before, you had the option to pay the extra $40 unescorted minor fee, which you chose not to do. That would have more or less ensured her a seat, barring mechanical or weather type problems. You chose not to, which to the airlines means that you are comfortable that your DD can manage on her own. The airlines provide transportation, not babysitting services. If your child can't handle unforseen circumstances, then they SHOULD NOT travel alone.

And as I have said before I feel this is a bit of blackmail for common sense and good reason.

How dare you try to lobby for laws making it illegal for minors to travel alone? QUOTE]
How dare I??? not even going to comment on that other then to say that I dare to the same way you dare to .Hopefully nicer though... I see a problem and dare to speak out- simple. And if you had read my posts I am NOT trying to make it illegal for teens to fly alone- where ever did you get that from?? I simply want the airlines to not overnight bump teens- they should not be allowed to rent hotels for minors who would not be allowed to rent them on thier own.
QUOTE] Just because YOUR DAUGHTER couldn't handle it, and YOU didn't take proper precautions doesn't mean that the rest of the teens in the world or their parents need to be penalized for it.

My daughter did handle it. Everything turned out fine. It could have ended very differently though. A different teen, a different story. Could have been a mess or even tragic.
.

You screwed up, take it as a lesson learned and get on with your life. End of story..

I did screw up- I expected common sense and reasonable caution. And I am getting on with my life. Part of my life will now be trying to ensure that minors are not booked overnight alone.

Humor me with a few answers- Do you think it makes sense to put a teen in a hotel room overnight if it can be avoided?
Do you think that the airlines would ever choose to bump a monir to avoid paying full compensation that a more savvy adult travelor might know to demand?
Would you book a room for a teen you didn't know?
AND IS AUDACITY A BAD THING?

 

[Jeanne434]

DD was not removed from a seat on the plane. I am sorry if I gave that impression. I used the term Involuntarily Unboarded because that is how the Airline Corporate have her classified. As far as I am concerned that is the bottom line there- if they admit to unvoluntarily taking her off then thats good enough for me! They want to avoid adding numbers to this category at all costs as I understand it! thats why they try to pay people off first. Before boarding began they started asking for volunteers- upping the compensation as they went. When no one volunteered at $250 they began boarding plane and lo and behold DD found she had been bumped.
I don't know what a non-rev is- sorry- so I can't respond to that issue!
Thanks for a calm response- I had no idea it would get so heated in here. I am trying not to feel dread at reading the thread! Getting a bit paranoid actually! ;teeth:

 

[Lewisc]

Common sense indicates flights get delayed, over-booked, have weather problems and mechanical problems.

Common sense indicates that if your daughter can't handle problems; you should make other arrangements. Specifically pay for an escort or even split up you and your husband so one of you could fly with your daughter.

Common sense indicates that airlines are losing money and that if changes are made it will cost customers money. I can see the airlines either charging a fee or simply only allowing teenagers to travel on a full fare ticket. The price for an unrestricted R/T ticket from BOS TO MCO is about $1200. That is the price for a ticket that all but eliminates involuntary bumping. Common sense indicates that most passengers don't want to pay that.

Common sense indicates that normal procedure is not to deplane passangers. Although I choose to believe you (and have consistently said the problem is an airline taking advantage of an inexperienced traveler) common sense suggest the possibility that your daughter may have gotten very little sleep the night before (prom night), was sleeping in the waiting area and missed her boarding call. Again I have no reason to doubt your version BUT COMMON SENSE does cause us to be skeptical.

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
I don't know what a non-rev is- sorry- so I can't respond to that issue!

A non-rev is a non revenue passenger. This is usually an airline employee or their immediate family travelling on what they call a 'pass' These passengers have the absolute lowest priority, are the first to get bumped. I used to travel as a non-rev passenger until I got out of college, as my father was a pilot. That was the only time I was ever bumped, but travelling non-rev you pretty much expect that.

 

[Jeanne434]

Can someone please answer this question? How many people on a flight would be eligible for a refund if they didn't show up? How many people actually pay the full fare refundable price?

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
Humor me with a few answers- Do you think it makes sense to put a teen in a hotel room overnight if it can be avoided?
Do you think that the airlines would ever choose to bump a monir to avoid paying full compensation that a more savvy adult travelor might know to demand?
Would you book a room for a teen you didn't know?
AND IS AUDACITY A BAD THING?

I expect that if a teen is traveling alone then they should be able to care for themselves overnight. It happens, it's life. If I felt MY teen couldn't handle it I wouldn't allow him to fly by himself.

How do you know that an adult would have gotten more compensation? There is a set standard that they will pay, if you are bumped involuntarily you simply have no choice, regardless of who you are. You get what they give, end of story. You claim ignorance, you obviously are ignorant to general airline policies...you can't just demand anything you want from the airlines--you get what they give. In your carriers case it's $250 plus a room and meal vouchers. That's what they give, that's what she got, I don't see the problem.

In a case like yours, sure I'd book a room for a teen. I'd expect that any teen traveling alone has the common sense to care for themselves--not to mention taht the PARENT it ultimately responsible for their child, their childs behaviour. The airline is not a babysitter. It's a matter of parental responsibility. End of story.

Auduacity is a bad thing when you purport to speak for every parent in the world.

I for one don't want to see any rules like you are suggesting. Parenting is my responsibility, my child is my responsibility, and decisions on when and how to allow them to travel is my responsibility. Not yours or any congressmans.

Anne

 

[Lewisc]

It depends on the airline and the flight. I just booked SW, the flight was about half full and only full fare tickets were available (I wound up using a frequent flyer ticket).

You can't go by this board. Most of us would change flight times, days or even fly into Tampa before we'd fly full fare. People paying full fare tend to be people flying for business, conventions or other circumstances in which time and date are the most important criteria.

The airlines have overbooked for years. I always see enough volunteers. It really sounds like Delta took advantage of an inexperienced traveler. I don't think it would have been any different if she was 18 or 19. Do you?

Originally posted by Jeanne434
Can someone please answer this question? How many people on a flight would be eligible for a refund if they didn't show up? How many people actually pay the full fare refundable price?

 

[Jeanne434]

How do you know that an adult would have gotten more compensation? There is a set standard that they will pay, if you are bumped involuntarily you simply have no choice, regardless of who you are. You get what they give, end of story. You claim ignorance, you obviously are ignorant to general airline policies...you can't just demand anything you want from the airlines--you get what they give. In your carriers case it's $250 plus a room and meal vouchers. That's what they give, that's what she got, I don't see the problem.

I have researched it and $250 is not what is supposed to be given for a bumping that requires an overnight stay. That amount is $400

The airline is not a babysitter. It's a matter of parental responsibility. End of story.

The airline is not expected be a babysitter here- I do expect them to fulfill a contracted agreement.

Auduacity is a bad thing when you purport to speak for every parent in the world.

Yeah okay- I'm not speaking for you. I will make that clear to everyone I speak to about this...stay on top of your congess people and speak out as you desire.As will I.

I for one don't want to see any rules like you are suggesting. Parenting is my responsibility, my child is my responsibility, and decisions on when and how to allow them to travel is my responsibility. Not yours or any congressmans.

You are, however, willing to allow an airline to make decisions regarding your teens ability to stay overnight. Hmmmm

 

[safetymom]

A lot of business buy the non refundable ticket even when they know they might not make that flight. It is cheaper to throw away a ticket sometimes than pay the full fare rate.

I am still not sure exactly what happened to the OP daughter. But everyone that flies should be aware of the rules and not depend on the airline to take care of you. You need to be part of any decision that is made.

 

[Lewisc]

Actually you, the parent, made that decision when you allowed your daughter to travel by herself. By travelling alone, unescorted YOU MADE THE DECSION that the airline should treat your daughter like any other passenger. You keep adding and changing facts. I was willing to accept what you were saying at face value but now I'm not so sure.

I am increasingly skeptical of your "facts". Your daughter went from sleeping alone in a hotel do being with a relative. Your daughter went from being deplanned to being bumped and not boarding.

You are, however, willing to allow an airline to make decisions regarding your teens ability to stay overnight. Hmmmm [/B]

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
The airline is not expected be a babysitter here- I do expect them to fulfill a contracted agreement.

You are, however, willing to allow an airline to make decisions regarding your teens ability to stay overnight. Hmmmm

They did fulfill their agreement--they got your daughter to her destination based on their rules of carriage--read the back of the ticket.

I put my son on a plane knonwing that there is a remote chance that he could be bumped and have to stay overnight. I make a parental decision that he is capable of doing so without having a "hissy fit". If he were not capable of doing so without said "hissy fit" I wouldn't allow him to fly alone. I am a repsonsible parent, and take the time to read the fine print and ask questions rather than assuming.

Anne

 

[cjsmith]

I guess some of the problems that people have with this post was, the original post started with DELTA IS BAD NEWS and went on from them blasting Delta airlines and made it seem like the OP's daughter was left stranded in Orlando by Delta nd put up alone in a hotel room. The intent was warning us that Delta was bad news and we should watch ourselves and our children prior to flying with them. Many posts later, we found out more bits and pieces of the story, like the fact that her daughter wasn't alone in the hotel room, etc. and the tone changed to the airlines needing to have new legislation in regards to teens being bumped over night. I guess everyone has their own opinion. Some feel that things just don't add up and some are reading that it was simply a warning. But as far as saying that the gate agents picked a 17 year old to be bumped on purpose since they wouldn't put up a stink, I highly doubt that. Something broke down along the way, and since no one was there, no one will really know exactly what happened. Out of curiosity, was she the only one on that flight that was bumped or were there other?

 

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by Lewisc
You keep adding and changing facts. I was willing to accept what you were saying at face value but now I'm not so sure.

I keep adding facts as people have asked for clarifications. Or made accusations against me that I felt I had to defend and clear up.

I am increasingly skeptical of your "facts". Your daughter went from sleeping alone in a hotel do being with a relative. Your daughter went from being deplanned to being bumped and not boarding. [/B]

I never said DD slept alone in the hotel. I stated that Delta had given a minor travelling alone a voucher for a hotel room. I stated from the beginning that DD was home safely without incident but I feared that it could have turned out very differently. A different time, a different teen and who knows what coukd have happened.
I don't recall saying deplaned, although I may have at some point just out of ignorance of the proper terms for such things-( I don't feel like rereading the whole thread to find out !)I did call it being bumped until I got the "official" phrasing from the Delta Corporate Office- they have her officially listed as being Involuntarily Unboarded.
My point has been refined as time went on but the basic point has always been that I (and I speak only for myself here- not Anne or anyone else) think that it is not good policy for an airline to overnight bump teens travelling alone.

 

[Jeanne434]

I'm not sure if others were bumped from this flight. i will ask DD after school today and then call Donald at Corporate Offices for confirmation of her story. Thats a good question.
And a question- why do you doubt that they would choose someone less likely to put up a stink or demand more compensation for an involuntary unboarding? that would not surprise me at all. Especially since the more I research it the more it seems likely that this is exactly what occured. Money is tight- I know that -we all do- airlines are struggling. If they can get a teen off for $250 rather then pay a savvy adult the required $400 for an overnight bump why wouldn't they?