Heads up cruisers- are you flying DELTA??

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by nicurnc

As for people "jumping" on the OP for her parenting skills, I don't think that this was the intent. She offered a lot of info, and lots of people thought they would not have done what she did in her place.

Loretta

Oh I disagree-
I have found many of these posts to be down right rude actually- I have felt jumped upon! I have been accused of being less then honest about the situation, of lacking concern for my children, of failing to recognize the value of children, of putting my desire to cruise ahead of my DD safety, Of neglecting my daughter, of covering up something that contributed to the overnight bumping, of having some sort of ulterier motive (as in increased compensation) for posting this, of failing to take personal responsibility for my actions or expecting DD to do the same. I have heard my DD critisized for melting down- for getting upset for causing trouble. One post even suggested that maybe she should have been in trouble for interfering with a flight( I will be responding to that post next!)All sorts of things have been thrown in my direction! I have tried to take a deep breath and handle each accusation calmly, honestly and with good reason.
Because as I have said many many times this is NOT about MY situation. Believe it or not, believe me or not- I am only acting out of concern for future teens. The person who stated that I had opened her eyes to a potential problem and that she would be altering her flight arrangements for her God daughters travel alone this summer is what I was hoping for. If I had known that an airline would be allowed to bump a teen travelling alone overnight I would have done things differently. How many other parents out there have no idea? I think they deserve regulations to protect them and thier teens. What do you think the reaction would be if parents of teens travelling alone were warned that thier teen could be booked into a hotel overnight alone?

 

[goofy4tink]

At this point let me say that I am sorry the OP's dd had this problem. She and her family must have been frantic. With that being said, I would imagine a valuable lesson has been learned by many, the hard way. It pays to pay the extra fee for more attention to your child. I'm sure that most 17 y/o's feel that they are mature and can handle this type of situation, but that just isn't so. We sometimes forget they are still children, albiet big ones!! They can't vote, drink and in many cases have medical treatment with parental consent. I would suggest that if you put, or allow your child to be put, on a flight, pay the fee and know that said child will be looked after. I don't believe the OP or her child did anything wrong, other than make an assumption that she would be fine. Delta did what they could. Saying this, I'm not so sure I would have been very comfortable with my child, even at 17, being put up in a hotel somewhere for the night. Just my .02.

 

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by Poly Pal
I find it strange that the parents did not check to see that the daughter had a boarding pass with a seat assignment on it. Also, if the uncle stayed with her, why did the daughter go through the rig-a-ma-roll with the Delta agent to get a hotel voucher? If I took my niece to the airport, she got bumped, and had to stay overnight, you can be darn sure she would have stayed at my house that evening. /QUOTE]
As A matter of fact this is what happened. Her uncle stayed at the hotel with her, of course. As I have stated numerous times this IS NOT ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO MY DD- my personal gripes with this airline will be dealt with personally- as is appropriate.
/QUOTE] I also find it strange that this poor girl got bumped twice when she supposedly checked in 90 minutes ahead of time and arrived at the gate early./QUOTE]
Strange but true.
/QUOTE] I think the OP would have been better to title her post "Warning to parents about letting teens fly alone" versus the inflamatory "Heads Up About DELTA!"/QUOTE]
I was trying be fair and only speak of the airline that I had personal experience with relating to this issue.
/QUOTE] I still say we don't have the whole story. And now the OP wants to have legislation passed to protect innocent 17 year olds from being bumped. /QUOTE]
You do have the whole story- the whole story is that airlines CAN bump teens who are travelling alone even if this involves an overnight stay. The whole story if that I do not think this is wise policy. Period. And I think I would be remiss if I did not do something about it.
/QUOTE] So, perhaps they'll bump other people flying to meet their cruise ship, honeymooners headed off on vacation, sons and daughters flying to see a sick parent, parents rushing home to see their hospitalized children, the college grad flying to a job interview - just so irresponsible parents and their irresponsible teens can waltz up to the gate at the last minute to board a flight. (Of course I'm not saying that's what this teen did.) Hey, perhaps we should hold flights at the gate until all the teens show up for the flight, too./QUOTE]
Honestly, I do find the whole practice of bumping passengers a little shady. seems like double dipping to me. I mean, you do not get a refund if you do not show up for your flight. Isn't this selling the same seat twice? Selling something you do not have-

/QUOTE] I don't see how Delta acted irresponsibly. Sounds like they acted to the letter of the law. And for the poor Delta agent who had to deal with the hysterical, crying, screaming teen who would not calm down - I suppose he could have just had the girl arrested for interfering with a flight crew

Just because it is legal doesn't make it right. And what are you thinking- have an upset teen arrested for melting down in a situation that many adults would find challenging. This was just a nasty comment, uncalled for and unjustified. She actually was able to keep herself together pretty well until she spoke to me on the phone and began to relate how she was treated by the Delta personal. They should be trained to deal with these situations with more sensitivity and tact. If you are going to overnight bump minors then be prepared to deal with the resulting upset skillfully and with concern.

 

[Lewisc]

Did the 17 year old have a ticket with a confirmed reservation or was it a standby situation (in exchange for not using a reservation the previous day)?

Did Delta follow the rules in getting volunteers first?

Why is the parent trying to blame Delta? Did the teenager have a full fare ticket? The priorty in bumping people ISN'T BY AGE it's by ticket status?

SORRY I JOIN THE POSTERS WHO THINK PART OF THE STORY IS BEING OMITTED/ENHANCED.

 

[Jeanne434]

Originally posted by Lewisc
There can be mechanical and weather related cancellations. Any person who can't deal with it shouldn't fly alone. Not questioning anyones parenting skills but if the teenager isn't mature enough to handle problems with cancelled flights they shouldn't fly alone.

No reason why a teenager should get preferential treatment.

[
I don't have a problem with the simple bumping of teens- BUT when it comes to overnight bumping I do have an issue.

[Is it possible the child was late in checking in at the gate? Is it possible the child was originally ticketed to fly with the parents the night before and Delta allowed travel the next day on some type of standby basis? Was the ticket some type of promotional standby ticket?

[
The child was NOT late, it was a standard full price ticket. She was never scheduled to fly the night before. It was not a promotion of any sort or standy basis seating.In fact the rest of us flew on SWA the night before(might I say without incidence!)Her ticket WAS confirmed, she did have an assigned seat. Delta did ask for volunteers to unboard but none were forthcoming. They offered $200- I have no idea what they are legally obliged to offer. This was for the flight down.

 

[Lewisc]

According to bestfares.com

By law, the airline must seek volunteers before they deny boarding. If you get to the gate within the check-in limit and you're told the flight is full, remind the gate agent that they are obligated to board the aircraft and ask for volunteers before they deny you your seat. If they try to convince you they can't because they want to keep the flight on time, remind them that your on-time arrival matters too, and most importantly, they have to follow the rules.

If there are not enough volunteers, the airline must compensate bumped passengers with up to $400 in cash. Don't take airline vouchers unless you are getting far more value than the cash offer.

http://www.bestfares.com/travel/desks/story.asp?id=2348

It sounds like they didn't follow the procedure. Like I said there are usually more than enough volunteers. BUT
I don't agree teenagers are entitled to any special consideration. There is always the possibility of weather and mechanical problems. If your child can't cope don't let her fly alone.

I would be VERY UPSET if I was told age was being used as a criteria to determine bumping status. I would not be happy if I was bumped over your childe because of her age.

I guess I agree with you 50%, I think her age allowed Delta to treat her unfairly with regards to paying inadequate compensation and (probably) not paying enough to secure volunteers BUT if Delta followed the proper procedure than I think your daughter has to be prepared to be bumped.

 

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
The child was NOT late, it was a standard full price ticket.

WOW! - you paid $1200 for her air ticket (full fare coach) so your DD could attend a HS prom? My folks would have given me a choice, cruise or prom. Once in a lifetime prom or not!

 

[Jeanne434]

Thanks for the info re: bumping requirements. It is very hard to find (at least it has been for me!) the regulations regarding the airlines. The FAA sites are unwieldy and awkward! So are the NTSB and others I have been looking at the past week! I will check out that site you referenced!
I honestly don't have a problem with bumping teens- it is the over night aspect that I found troubling. I honestly had no idea this was allowed. Perhaps I should have, perhaps this was my ignorance but I just had never considered the possibility that an airline would be allowed to book a room for a minor in a hotel. Minors can not (at least in my state) book hotel rooms on thier own and I just assumed that airlines would play by the same rules. Now I do know what they say about ***-u-ming anything!
I thank you for your calm and reasonable response in a thread that has gotten a little testy at times! I am surprised by the reaction of many here- I had no idea I was opening such a can of worms. I know that some people here don't believe it but my sole motive was to alert others who, like myself, might be unaware that an airline could overnight bump thier teen. I just don't think this is a wise or safe policy. I am surprised that the airlines would engage in such risky behavior. As I said once before, in my school district we do not even dismiss a teen early from school with out a parent being notified first. I really was completely blind sided by this! And I have been stunned by the measure of harsh responses directed my way here! Good thing I have thick skin and a determined nature!

 

[sgtdisney]

Originally posted by Jeanne434
The child was NOT late, it was a standard full price ticket.

If you paid a standard full fare for your daughter's ticket (1000.00 or more) and they bumped her before other passengers with cheaper tickets you may have something to take up with the airline. Passengers are supposed to be bumped based on their ticket priority and Q fares and other 'fare sales' are among the lowest priority. People who have paid full fare on a flight have the highest priority so if they bumped your daugher in this situation you really should push this with Delta then.

 

[nicurnc]

Sorry, but lewisc brought up an interesting point, what is the airlines responsiblity for delayed flights,etc? Are they responsible for passengers' behavior? teen or otherwise?
Again, I think this boils down to parental responsibility when letting teens travel on their own.
Delta's policy in dealing with 15-17 y/o passengers is there. I just don't think we need legislation to change it. JMHO.

Jeanne434- you've done the job you set out to do. You have warned us all of the airlines vile practice of involuntary bumping-to include 17 y/o passengers- I wish you luck in your effort to see that laws are passed to change this practice. Please go to bat with something more than "it's just not right".

I'm truly sorry for any for distress my opinions might have caused you. I'm afraid I feel just as passionately for my feeling on the matter as you do yours.

Can we all agree to disagree and put an end to this post?

Loretta

Loretta

 

[Jeanne434]

Delta's policy in dealing with 15-17 y/o passengers is there. I just don't think we need legislation to change it. JMHO.

Well if overnight bumping of teens travelling alone is allowed to happen I think we do need regulations to prohibit it.

Jeanne434- you've done the job you set out to do. You have warned us all of the airlines vile practice of involuntary bumping-to include 17 y/o passengers- I wish you luck in your effort to see that laws are passed to change this practice. Please go to bat with something more than "it's just not right".

I will certainly go to bat with a lot more then just it is not right- it is risky, unreasonable, unsafe behavior. If it is illegal for a minor to contract a room on their own then an airline should not be allowed to do it for them either.

I'm truly sorry for any for distress my opinions might have caused you. I'm afraid I feel just as passionately for my feeling on the matter as you do yours.

I have no problem at all with people feeling passionate about thier opinions. I like it that way! I do take issue when it gets nasty in unneeded ways- like attacks or comments on my parenting skills when people know nothing about me or suggesting that I have ulterior motives for this or even *GASP* suggesting that DD perhaps ought to have been arrested for intefering with air flight! This thread was begun someplace else- my mistake and the webmaster locked it. I asked her to please just move it to a place she thought more appropriate. I see no need to end the thread- the more people who see it the more who will be aware of the possiblity of this happening to thier teen who may be flying alone. If I had known then what I know now I would have made different choices. I am grateful for your input- I don't ask for everyone to agree with me- I just ask for common courtesy. I am surprised though that ANYONE thinks that overnight booking of teens is good policy or that it ought to allowed! That has been an eye opener.


Loretta

Loretta [/B]

 

[Poly Pal]

Jeanne434,

I am sorry if my comments upset you. Re-reading the posts, it still seems to me that your story comes out in bits and pieces. Perhaps if your original post had not left so many details out, you would have found more sympathetic responses. You were the one who said your daughter had a "massive hissy fit" and said that the Delta agent told her to calm down and pull herself together. And yes, rightly or wrongly, people have been arrested for interfering with a flight crew for less. (Example: woman on Southwest who asked the flight attendant if the pilots were sober before the plane pushed back from the gate. She was deplaned, arrested, and charged with interfering with the flight.)

Somewhere mid-stream your posts moved from "look what Delta did to my daughter" to a "campaign to regulate the overnight bumping of teens." (again this is MY overall read of the situation). I still do not agree that age should have anything to do with the decision to bump.

I'm glad to hear that your daughter stayed with her uncle rather than alone. I am very surprised to hear you paid a full fare to Florida for your daughter. That would give her a higher priority over other passengers who were going to be bumped, but not over those passengers who had checked in and got a boarding pass with a seat assignment.

To ME, your story does not add up. If your daughter did check in 90 minutes early, got a boarding pass with a seat assignment on it and presented herself at the gate on time (both outbound and inbound), that would mean that every other passenger had checked in before she did and did it more than 90 minutes before the scheduled departure times. I suppose this is possible, but statistically it is incredible.

I am not saying that you acted irresponsibly. I am saying that you seem to be trying to avoid taking responsibility for allowing your daughter to fly alone when you thought she could have potentially been abducted, molested in the Atlanta airport, met up with somebody who would offer her alcohol, stayed overnight in a hotel by herself and caused a problem that you would be held liable for, etc.

I still do not favor legislation granting teens preferential treatment so that parents can treat them like adults and then avoid taking responsibility for the consequences.

Maybe this need to move to the Debate Board?

 

[Aisling]

I don't think an airline should be allowed to bump anyone under 18 years old, whether they volunteer or not.
I don't think an airline should be allowed to book a hotel room for anyone under 18 years old.

 

[nicurnc]

Since you clearly do not want to see an end to this, let me add that at this point your only argument is that you think it's not right to bump a 17 y/o, and possibly put that 17 y/o in a hotel room for the night. And I'm afraid that opens up the door for a parent's decision to let a 17y/o fly alone.

You love breaking down people's statements and coming up with a retort for eveything they've said. In that light, why were you not so thorough in your first post.

In the OP, you let us think-
Your daughter was left alone to attend her prom
After being bumped from the flight down, she was left on her own again to fly home
She spent the night alone in a hotel room.
Had to deal with snotty Delta employees by herself
Was helpless during a very long layover in Altlanta
It only came out after that your DD was home with her dad, had an uncle with her during the whole going home debacle in Orlando, and he spent the night with her,(but where was he when your DD found out she was being bumped, didn't he speak up for her? He didn't help her deal with the snotty employees?) and the layover was 2 1/2 hours. I can't help but wonder why you chose to leave this out of the story until much later. The OP is very inflammatory and paints a different picture.

Is it any wonder that many of us reading your OP wondered if we were indeed hearing the whole story?! You did dole out information in bits and pieces to defend your position.

If you were truly interested in the well-being of every unaccompanied teen flying from here on out, the post could have been worded differently. The OP comes across as a vindication for your DD alone.

A warning could have calmly stated-
"Heads up! Is everyone aware that 17y/o unaccompanied passengers could be involuntarily bumped from a flight and even put up in a hotel room overnight? This happened to my DD. Everything thankfully turned out okay, but I thought it a good idea to let others know this might happen. I'm going to write my congressman, maybe we should finally put and end to the airlines practice of overbooking flights, since no one deserves to have plans changed due to it."
End of story.

As it is, you left yourself wide open on a board well known for it's flame-throwers (myself sometimes included-my only excuse is being home recovering from surgery-otherwise I realy would not have the time or inclination to engage in this written debate).
Look at this experience as good practice for making your point. And I'm tellin' ya..right now your argument doesn't have much going for it, other than you think it's wrong. You are trying to change a policy the airline have been allowed to practice and in your own particular situation, they had an option you chose not to use.
You need facts, you need petitions, you need something more than your anger to make a change.

Loretta

 

[bridgettesmom]

Jeanne434- I have read the whole thread and did not intend to reply.I'm now concerned because you said she had an assigned seat, did you mean she had an actual boarding pass? If she had a boarding pass ,the only way they could have given her seat up is if she hadn't checked in at the gate 15 minutes prior to departure, making her a no show for the flight. I got this information from the Delta web site:



Airport Check-In

What is the minimum gate check-in time for domestic flights?
For domestic flights within the 50 U.S., including Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands, passengers are required to check bags at least 30 minutes before departure (45 minutes for Las Vegas and Denver) and be checked in and at the gate at least 15 minutes before departure. Delta Shuttle® customers must complete baggage check-in at least 15 minutes before departure and be at the gate at least five minutes before departure for guaranteed seating.

I want to make clear that I work for a major airline(NOT DELTA) and I'm not acussing your daughter of lying or you of being a bad mother.My point is ,if she checked in 15 minutes prior at the gate and boarded the only way they could off bumped her off the flight was by literally taking her off the plane.Did this happen??

 

[cherylp3]

Perhaps the escorting fee should be manditory for all minors
(Those under 18 ) My inlaws have paid the fee for my neice and they found the service to be worth the extra money.

Cheryl

 

[JOC]

Her return flight on Saturday night May 10 also saw her bumped again! We had flown in ealier and were waiting for her at the Prov airport when I got paged. It was now 10 PM.

Jeanne434,

Was your daughter booked on the last Delta flight out of Orlando that evening? I can't tell from reading your original post. Anyway, most airlines have a policy where unaccompanied minors aren't supposed to be booked on the last flight of the evening.

The following is from Delta's website:

*We will not book reservations for an unaccompanied child on the last connecting flight of the evening. This is to avoid the possibility of the child staying overnight in a hotel.

If you did book her on the last flight of the evening, then Delta probably assumed she was an adult when they bumped her.

 

[Jeanne434]

Nicurnc- I understand that the format of my replies may be a hassle- that is the "breaking down" and responding to each thing said. I only do this because I honestly have trouble remembering what it is in the post that I wanted to respond to once I open the reply page! It is just easier for me to transpose the whole reply and then respond to it. I also find it safer to be quoting what the person has actually said then trying to paraphrase. I have been trying to answer and respomd to all questions and accusations!
As for the change in tone of my posts- yes- I admit to being annoyed with the situation personally at first- and then it grew- into a bigger concern. I know my daughter, I know she could handle strangers approaching her and the host of other possibilities that could come of her being over night bumped. But what about the teen that couldn't? I admit that the whole story was not posted at first- I posted the basic facts- I tried to express the base of my concerns. Of course as time has gone on I have gotten more focused. I didn't think it necessary to post all the specifics of my daughters flight arrangements in the beginning but as questions arose I have tried to respond honestly.
As for my needing more to stand on then just "it is not right" my postings here are not the actions that I am taking- not by a long shot. Rest assured that my dealings with the FAA and governmental bodies will be well ordered, organized and thorough. This needs to be looked at.
When I began the post I had no idea that this was a system wide issue. If I had known I would have titled my post differently.
It only mentioned Delta because I only knew of Deltas policies (or lack thereof) in the overnight bumping of teens.
Please - a direct question- do you really think that overnight bumping of teens is a good idea? It may be legal, it may happen, perhaps I should have known better, but do you honestly think it is good policy? Is it good and common sense to put an unknown teen into a hotel room? Okay -so thats more then one question- sorry! lol

 

[safetymom]

The question about the ticket still hasn't been answered. Was it a full fare refundable ticket? Or one of the cheaper non refundable ones? If you truly had a full fare refundable ticket I would take it up with the airlines. Those are the customers that the airlines try to protect at all costs in an overbooking situation.

 

[cjsmith]

Neither the FAA, Delta or any other airline is going to change their rules, no matter how many letters or phone calls you make. The plain and simple fact is, your daughter got to her destination going down, though delayed, and was bumped coming home. She did not stay alone, nor was she alone, she was with her uncle. The only thing that would ever be accomplished, is the airlines will do away with allowing those children under the age of 18 to fly alone, period. You can not expect any airline to bump someone else for your daughter, how do they pick who goes and who stays if not by the method of checkin time? If you daughter did indeed check in 3 hours ahead of time in Orlando, there is no way that she was bumped if she was at the gate when she was supposed to be. This is especially true if she had a full fare ticket as you claim. My girlfriend, who as I stated is a Delta flight attendant based out of Orlando and is friends with all of the gate agents said that this would have never happened. They would have never taken away a boarding pass from someone once it was issued upon proper check in if the passenger did everything that they were responsible for. By responsible, meaning that they checked in properly and in time and were through security and at the gates when they were to be there. I'm not saying that someone would be denyed boarding, I'm saying that they wouldn't have taken away a boarding pass from some who had done everything that they were supposed to do. Clearly, there is still more to the story than we are still being told. Did you check in your daughter when you all arrived at the airport? By your flight being 2 hours prior to hers and assuming that you were there 1.5 hours ahead of your flight time, this would put her at the airport to check in 3.5 hours ahead of her flight. Are you telling us that she checked in then and was already told that the plane was oversold and she was now on the standby list as everyone else had already checked in? Was she given a boarding pass with a seat assignment on it or not? Was she at the gate in the correct time or was she off somewhere else? What did they do, call her up and say sorry, we're taking your seat and you're not going on? Why wasn't your borther, who is clearly an adult, go up to the counter with her and help rectify the situation if he stayed with her? He didn't raise some kind of of stink with management? If your daughter did indeed sign in 3.5 hours ahead of time, receive her boarding pass with her seat assingment on it, get through security and hang at the gate and then was denied boarding, well then you have a right to be angry. If this wasn't the case, well then, nothing can be done. The FAA will tell you that it is your responsiblity since you clearly bought the ticket for your daughter to fly on HER OWN, and didn't bother to research the fact that you could have paid to have had her taken care of. When I flew my children alone for the first time on JetBlue from Fort Lauderdale to New York, I called JFK and made sure that my parents could indeed get a special pass from JetBlue to be able to go directly to the gate and meet the kids as well as stay with them on the return flight until they boarded safely. JetBlue didn't have anything in place that I could pay for a service, since my oldest was 13, they considered both her and her 2 younger brother regular fares and not unaccompanied minor. However, I did ask and did the research as it was my jobs, not JetBlue's.