Hawaii Tourism Not Starting Up Until Late Summer

[stagmite]

https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/i...ral-aid-will-soon-run-out-for-many-in-hawaii/

Yes, there were direct flights on Alaska Airlines but I don’t think that route is currently in service.



Regarding the Pacific travel bubble, lawmakers aren’t talking about creating a free-for-all environment. The plan is to make it easy for some international visitors to receive exemptions from the 14 day quarantine for people willing to provide some sort of medical clearance. I could be wrong but I don’t think HIPAA/privacy laws would apply to international travelers.

Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.

 

[Moshi737]

Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.

Curious, what would be unfair with movement for residents within the state? In regards to people from out of state. (Not speaking on visitors of foreign countries as that is a separate matter). What would be the basis of a challenge in court?

 

[stagmite]

Curious, what would be unfair with movement for residents within the state? In regards to people from out of state. (Not speaking on visitors of foreign countries as that is a separate matter). What would be the basis of a challenge in court?

For the same reason as this https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ek-quarantine-rule-discriminates-against-tour

I'm more up in arms though about giving more rights to foreigners then their fellow Americans. My point is that if they were to allow both to by pass 14 day quarantines, then I can't see how they can defend their stance on mandatory 14 day quarantines for incoming flights from the main land.

 

[Moshi737]

So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court?
The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state.
Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.

 

[VandVsmama]

Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.

It'll end up getting sorted out in the federal court system. A lawyer I know said they thought such restrictions would likely be deemed unconstitutional.

 

[stagmite]

So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court?
The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state.
Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.

Per the argument the quarantine is in effect for tourist but not for essential travel business people who are exempt. Thus they are discriminating against tourist as the rule is not applied equally to everyone. Hawaii has exemption for those traveling from the main land (like the military), travel is allowed by air and they are opening their island to foreigners so now it becomes questionable that the governor can continue to violate an American's rights for equal and fair treatment when in another state.

 

[Moshi737]

Per the argument the quarantine is in effect for tourist but not for essential travel business people who are exempt. Thus they are discriminating against tourist as the rule is not applied equally to everyone. Hawaii has exemption for those traveling from the main land (like the military), travel is allowed by air and they are opening their island to foreigners so now it becomes questionable that the governor can continue to violate an American's rights for equal and fair treatment when in another state.

Again, I’m not asking about your views on foreign travelers into Hawaii. I am questioning your earlier statement that residents of Hawaii moving within Hawaii somehow is unfair to out of state Americans. And that it could be challenged in court. I am asking what the basis of that case would be. And with Hawaii looking to start Interisland travel, your take is of interest to me. Especially with the way Hawaii is geographically set.
You have made it clear that foreign travel into Hawaii would be violating the constitution, I understand that. But I’m not sure how a resident, in any particular state not just Hawaii, would be violating the travel rights of a non resident simply by traveling within their own state. And if I read your earlier statement wrong, please correct me.

 

[stagmite]

Again, I’m not asking about your views on foreign travelers into Hawaii. I am questioning your earlier statement that residents of Hawaii moving within Hawaii somehow is unfair to out of state Americans. And that it could be challenged in court. I am asking what the basis of that case would be. And with Hawaii looking to start Interisland travel, your take is of interest to me. Especially with the way Hawaii is geographically set.
You have made it clear that foreign travel into Hawaii would be violating the constitution, I understand that. But I’m not sure how a resident, in any particular state not just Hawaii, would be violating the travel rights of a non resident simply by traveling within their own state. And if I read your earlier statement wrong, please correct me.

I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.

 

[SirDuff]

I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.

I think that the intra-island travel is something of a red herring. Just doing that isn't a problem. Allowing foreign nationals to come to Hawaii but barring US nationals (Though I don't think it's nationals, it's residents. I'm a Canadian national but I live in Europe. Once the US closed its borders to those coming from Europe, that included me (this was before the US/Canada border had restrictions)) is a problem with or without allowing intra-island travel for Hawaii residents.

 

[travelmomof3]

We decided to cancel our August trip to Hawaii. Just not worth the hassle right now.

 

[Noah_t]

So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court?
The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state.
Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.

Not only does this seem lawful on the face of it it passes my fairness smell test. To me it seems pretty fair to allow interisland travel without a quarantine at the same time still requiring our of state visitors to quarantine but W T F does fairness have to do with anything.

 

[Sepo]

I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing. Acknowledged: Testing is full of flaws (and the rabbit hole goes deeper since the recent investigations are that we do not know what a negative test really means (has to do with shedding differences))... but still, it is better than nothing and can serve as a deterrent to non-motivated travelers.

As noted, the state’s power to enforce this only occurs after landing unless all the airlines play ball, which is unlikely. In short they likely cannot prevent boarding. So you could be dealing with a lot of visitors who are not tested until they land, gridlock back-ups, quarantine if results not available quickly, and residents up in arms when positives are found in the waiting time after leaving the airport.

 

[kdonnel]

I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing.

What happens when the test result is not returned in time? My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.

 

[VandVsmama]

What happens when the test result is not returned in time? My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.

I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing. Acknowledged: Testing is full of flaws (and the rabbit hole goes deeper since the recent investigations are that we do not know what a negative test really means (has to do with shedding differences))... but still, it is better than nothing and can serve as a deterrent to non-motivated travelers.

As noted, the state’s power to enforce this only occurs after landing unless all the airlines play ball, which is unlikely. In short they likely cannot prevent boarding. So you could be dealing with a lot of visitors who are not tested until they land, gridlock back-ups, quarantine if results not available quickly, and residents up in arms when positives are found in the waiting time after leaving the airport.

All totally valid points. It's definitely not an ideal situation and will pretty much make traveling to Hawaii a Royal Hawaiian Pain in the Neck for a long time. If they're doing testing when we go in March to Maui, we won't be going.

 

[ChrisBerry]

Your numbers are inaccurate. We are expecting 3.5M visitors for the remainder of the year, vs. our normal 30M. Travel will bring the virus. We have a few 100 ICU beds on Oahu. Is it worth the risk?

As much as I absolutely love Hawaii, I want it to reopen when it is safe. That may mean a vaccine. Their health care system is not large enough to support their residents and tourists.

 

[ksromack]

What happens when the test result is not returned in time? My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.

I have an old friend who is an architect and does business in Hong Kong quite often. He is on his second week of quarantine. He said when he arrived in China from Chicago he was taken to the mandatory testing facility where he was tested (saliva). Each person had their own 2m square taped off on the floor and was provided some chips, bottles of water, a lousy sandwich (his words), Twix bars, a small table and a desk chair within that square. I didn't ask him about bathroom breaks Anyway, he waited 10 hours for his test to be complete until he was given the ability to call a taxi to take him to his hotel. Once he was in his hotel room he had to activate his electronic bracelet where he had to walk the boundries of his room for 60 seconds so the GPS would know his acceptable space for the next 14 days. Oh, and he has to monitor his temperature and record it on his government form. He said he actually admired the vigilance in testing since in a city of 4.7 million there had only been 1066 positive cases (at that time) and 4 deaths.

 

[Moshi737]

I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.

Okay, thank you for the information. I see resident inter island travel as being a separate matter to foreign travel into Hawaii. They are not one in the same. Combined, yes home run case. Separately, not so much.

 

[gioiamama]

As much as I absolutely love Hawaii, I want it to reopen when it is safe. That may mean a vaccine. Their health care system is not large enough to support their residents and tourists.

Thank you, this point continues to be lost on the thread!

 

[Dismama2]

While I do think inter-island, and “tourism” travel are separate issues, it is hypocritical to say that the reason for lifting the island to island quarantine is for families to be able to see each other (a point I don’t disagree with), but then when it comes to non Hawaiian residents visiting, prioritizing foreign travel revenue over mainland AMERICANS visiting their FAMILY in Hawaii does not sit well with me.

 

[emilymad]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Hawaii can keep itself closed until their is a vaccine if that is what they feel is needed for their residents. The issue is partially opening the state which defeats a lot of the purpose of quarantine. If they are really looking for tourism dollars they would be better off announcing either they are opening or closing. The ambiguity (even though understandable) is going to push people to other vacation destinations.