Have we become weak?

[ThAnswr]

You obviously get different newscasts than we get over here

No Faux News in Germany?

 

[staci]

No Faux News in Germany?

 

[auntpolly]

If it was so easy for everyone to leave those shelters, how come it was so hard for people to get to them to help them? Talk about weak, that was a pretty weak effort.

 

[padams]

By weakness, I mean the ability to take care of oneself and one's family without expecting the government to do it for you. I am not referring specifically to the hurricane victims but to our country as a whole.

I find it interesting that there are so many posts on what the government should have done or should be doing. There are far fewer posts about individual responsibility, and those posters are attacked by so many as callous, uncaring, etc. Our country was founded on the ideals of personal freedoms and responsibilities, not cradle to grave socialism. Why are so many looking to the government to take care of everything? What happened to the ideals of taking care of your self, your family, your friends, and your neighbors?

Our government did not handle quickly or well the post-hurricane situation this week. I would argue that it wasn't capable of handling the situation much better than it did. I've been a federal government employee. I've seen the massive bureaucracy from the inside. It doesn't move quickly, and there are a lot of turf battles over whose job it is.

I am dismayed that so many people think the government should or even can take care of everything. If we have a national emergency such as a nuclear attack, do you think our government will be able to handle it better than it handled NO? I don't think so. Are our citizens prepared to handle a large scale emergency? No- not when we have so many dependent on the government for their day-to-day existence.

I feel sorry for the hurricane victims because so many people think they are incapable of doing anything about their situation. I am amazed by the widespread bigotry of low expectations. "The poor can't take care of themselves." Why can't they? I find it offensive that people think the poor can't take care of themselves and need the government to do it. They aren't less intelligent or less physically capable than the rest of us. The earliest settlers didn't rely on government, and they managed to survive and create one of the most prosperous countries on Earth. How many illegal aliens do we have in this country who came with nothing but manage to survive, and arguably thrive, without much government assistance?

In the first 150 years, the US was created largely by the work of individuals. In the last 75 years or so, we have become a nation that looks to our government. Why has the focus shifted? I think the answers can be found in our educational system, our social welfare programs, and the economy. Is this shift bad? Looking at how poorly our government has responded this week, I think it is. Surely, we can do better than what we saw this week but I think it will take a lot of effort by a lot of individuals.

 

[padams]

AuntPolly- I wasn't suggesting that the residents of NO were weak. You don't understand my post. My point is that our country is much more dependent on the government than it was in the first 150 years of existence. Having watched how poorly our gov't responded this week, do I think it's good for people to be dependent on such an inept entity? No. I think we can and should do better for ourselves and our fellow Americans. That's my point.

 

[DawnCt1]

Stepping out on a limb here....but I think "we" (as a nation) have become very lazy.

I hate to admit it, but isn't it sooo true. I have a philosophy; I don't hire anything done that I can do myself". I live on a street where almost everyone has their lawns mowed, their driveways plowed and their kids do not drive older cars. We do ourselves no favors to NOT be self sufficient. I sent my DH to the store for clothes pins. He asked a clerk where to find them. He actually had to describe them and the clerk asked DH, "do people really USE THESE???" He said, DW does until the clothes freeze on the line. DH's brother's wife is concerned because her father offerred her son his old pick up truck to drive and her son is "embarrassed". I can't believe that! My first car cost $50!! I told her that we are doing our children a terrible disservice because many of them will never be able to provide the lifestyle for themselves that we inadvertantly provide for them. My DSs constantly tell me that I am "living in the fifties". Maybe so, but I still consider a nickel "money". I know I am rambling here but we are a spoiled nation and it only serves to hurt us. I feel if I had to evacuated, I could pack a tent, camping supplies and be "okay". I don't think a lot of Americans can.

 

[floridaminnie]

60 minutes talked about the current generation from the Baby Boomers that are starting to come into the picture. They are a generation that it has to happen now and it has to happen fast. Which is part of the problem with the way our society is going. We are unable to look very far into the future. It's a here and now thing.

 

[michvin]

I have to say that most Americans are weak in that they don't do for themselves, like mow the lawn, fix things, or actually consider what they would do in a fire, accident, flood etc. I mean, I bet a large number of persons living in NO didn't even know the geological ramifications the city consisted of...I don't think Bush even understood that point. Its like people here in the Northeast who live on the beach. Then a noreaster comes, or a hurricane and you see them on TV with this shocked look on their face...We can build, and build and create "luxury" anywhere, but as a human being you should realize where you live, and the possible consequences associated with that location. I mean, NO is a bowl, a BOWL shaped city surrounded by walls, ie. levees, to keep the water out....water that surrounds a city that is positioned at the tip of one of the world's largest rivers. It seems to me that the politicians did not, once again, take the advice of the scientists...this was predicted years ago, highlighted in National Geographic last October..the NO would one day be under 15 feet of water. They knew...the policiticans were told this would happen...and even with 3 days notice the city was still only on notice. This wait and see, and oh, the scientists exaggerate everything attitude got the country in the place we are in now. And thousands of people without the understanding of how to handle themselves in a situation like this are dead, dying, homeless. On a final note, think about what the history books could read 200 years from now: A great city, built on a swamp at the base of the nation's largest river, walled in by levees, flooded even after years of notice....our great grandkids are going to be like "what were you all thinking?"

 

[mrsltg]

Watch the newscasts. No one knows what to do and so they are completely dependent upon the government. "What is the gov't doing?", "What is the gov't going to GIVE me?", "What is the gov't going to do FOR ME?" No one seems to be doing anything for themself. No one seems to be looking to their neighbors for help. Maybe the media is ignoring those people in the towns where this is happening. I really hope that is the case or we have become weak and pathetic.

Erin

 

[staci]

Watch the newscasts. No one knows what to do and so they are completely dependent upon the government. "What is the gov't doing?", "What is the gov't going to GIVE me?", "What is the gov't going to do FOR ME?" No one seems to be doing anything for themself. No one seems to be looking to their neighbors for help. Maybe the media is ignoring those people in the towns where this is happening. I really hope that is the case or we have become weak and pathetic.

Erin

In NO, i dont think anybody's neighbor right now would be equipt to assist with anything. The people that are there are in the same situation. Whole neighborhoods are gone. They were not letting people reenter the city. The only people LEFT to turn to were those allowed back in; i.e. government.

As far as neighbors on a larger scale, I think they are TOTALLY turning to fellow americans for assistance. I have seen a great outpouring of support here on the DIS, as well as in my hometown, to come together and help any way we can/.

 

[rcyannacci]

The comparison between modern American citizens and the "hearty-stock" Frontier people of centuries past is unfair, IMO. What we have are two totally different historical contexts. What makes us think that Davy Crockett would know how to deal with the flooding of modern city streets, roving gangs with firearms, a lack of fresh drinking water or uncontaminated food? He wouldn't be anymore equip to handle this situation as we would be fighting a bear (if I'm remembering my song correctly...)

 

[rcyannacci]

Sorry...just one more thing...the after-effects of Katrina is EXACTLY the kind of thing that our government should be taking care of. Everyday citizens don't have to means to deal with this level of catastrophic loss of life and damage to property. Local, state, and national government is set up to control what we can't ourselves, and for the protection these goverments give us, we willingly submit to its laws and pay taxes. It's a travesty that even more people would go hungry if so many people weren't giving to charities right now, because the government that we pay taxes to doesn't have the resources. But we will pay, because we don't want to see our neighbors go hungry. If we are the most powerful nation, why can't we take care of our people!!!

 

[Boston Tea Party]

Correct me if I am wrong (sure y'all will... ) BUT I do believe that life expectancies then were much shorter. Therefore, people in general were much younger and better able to handle hardships.

 

[Puffy2]

I feel sorry for the hurricane victims because so many people think they are incapable of doing anything about their situation. I am amazed by the widespread bigotry of low expectations. "The poor can't take care of themselves." Why can't they? I find it offensive that people think the poor can't take care of themselves and need the government to do it.

Many of the poor did not own a car to evacuate in (it is estimated that two of every 10 in La do not own a car) ...nor could they afford the bus fare or taxi or whatever or the hotel rates for lodging.

The infirmed were unable to move themselves out (the bedridden, those in wheelchairs, the elderly, the sick, etc...) So, yes, those individuals are weaker than our average citizens. And - although it contradicts "capitalism" in some people's minds - as a compassionate nation, we should step up and assist those who need extra assistance or complete care. It's part of what our tax money is supposed to go for.

 

[auntpolly]

By weakness, I mean the ability to take care of oneself and one's family without expecting the government to do it for you. I am not referring specifically to the hurricane victims but to our country as a whole.

Since this is on the Katrina board, I assumed you were thinking about the hurricane victims, who at this point, many having lost everything, haven't had much of a chance to show us their resillience, so could you give them a couple of weeks or months to gather their strength and collect their faculties?

I am dismayed that so many people think the government should or even can take care of everything. If we have a national emergency such as a nuclear attack, do you think our government will be able to handle it better than it handled NO? I don't think so. Are our citizens prepared to handle a large scale emergency? No- not when we have so many dependent on the government for their day-to-day existence.

I'm not sure what this has to do with a bunch of people who lost everything they own. What do you think they should do; go out in the wilderness and put up a log cabin and trade furs? The federal government or local landowner will kick you off their land if you try to do this, these days.

 

[NewEnglandDisney]

One thing that surprised my family is how few people walked away. We talked about being at that convention center and what we would have done. All of us said we would leave first thing in the morning, as we could get 10 miles north by sunset. Maybe hundreds of people did do this and it just wasn't reported? I just know I could not have stayed in that place under those conditions. Now I realize many could not walk that far, but what about the ones that could?

Uh, yeah. You would have made it very far once you were shot on sight for trying to leave.

They weren't allowed to go. You are asking the same question Geraldo did - why won't they let these people walk away?

They had no choice - no food, no water, dead bodies and decay all around, and the government wouldn't let them leave.

N.E.D.

EDIT: If you'd like to see the video of Geraldo and the other anchor crying over this, the fact that the people had no choice, go here, about two paragraphs down is a link to the videos of the live broadcasts - http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/09/02.html#a4763

 

[auntpolly]

Uh, yeah. You would have made it very far once you were shot on sight for trying to leave.

They weren't allowed to go. You are asking the same question Geraldo did - why won't they let these people walk away?

They had no choice - no food, no water, dead bodies and decay all around, and the government wouldn't let them leave.

N.E.D.

And like I said, if it was so easy to walk out, why weren't people strolling in with help for those 100 years olds, handicapped and very young?

 

[Saphire]

Uh, yeah. You would have made it very far once you were shot on sight for trying to leave.

They weren't allowed to go. You are asking the same question Geraldo did - why won't they let these people walk away?

They had no choice - no food, no water, dead bodies and decay all around, and the government wouldn't let them leave.

Sorry, I did not know all the details, I had no idea they were not allowed to leave. I was only having a hypothetical discussion with my family about it, like what if something like that happened to us. That is when we talked about walking away. I also did not mean to ever imply these trapped people were "sissies" (fighting words, Aunt Polly, which no one here but you used).

 

[swilphil]

Sorry...just one more thing...the after-effects of Katrina is EXACTLY the kind of thing that our government should be taking care of. Everyday citizens don't have to means to deal with this level of catastrophic loss of life and damage to property. Local, state, and national government is set up to control what we can't ourselves, and for the protection these goverments give us, we willingly submit to its laws and pay taxes. It's a travesty that even more people would go hungry if so many people weren't giving to charities right now, because the government that we pay taxes to doesn't have the resources. But we will pay, because we don't want to see our neighbors go hungry. If we are the most powerful nation, why can't we take care of our people!!!

I agree that this is a situation where our government should intervene, and maybe it will cause a drastic change in the way we take care of those who can't take care of themselves.

In spite of a drastic class division in our past, it does seem like we as a society don't help the poor the way we used to do. We still have ghettos, even though we now call it the inner-city, and the suburbs keep getting bigger and bigger.

 

[Viking]

Correct me if I am wrong (sure y'all will... ) BUT I do believe that life expectancies then were much shorter. Therefore, people in general were much younger and better able to handle hardships.

That's not correct: Live expectancy was shorter mainly because of the hight mortality among infants. One baby dying in it's first year considerably lowers the average life expectancy - and there were lots of them who didn't make it through their first years. Many of the founding fathers lived to a ripe old age.
And BTW the life expectancy of Americans is already going down, which is unheard of in the western world. Scientist mainly blame obesity and obesity-related diseases for that fact.