Have any other DVC owners lost their points because of Disney's closures?

[Eugene King]

I am a DVC owner, over 270 points were supposed to be used for a stay in mid March. Disney closed the parks and cancelled the reservations. The parks will reopen after the points will have expired and they now tell me I cannot bank the lost points for a stay next year. This will result in ALL the points being lost!
In the middle of a crisis, this seems unconscionable. Has anyone else experienced this?

 

[Nvrgrowup]

There is a discussion regarding this and other issues with points on the DVC thread.

 

[Sandisw]

Currently, they are trying to come up with a solution to help that doesn’t have detrimental long term consequences.

The problem for members is we have no idea how many points there are, like yours, that are impacted.

I think that is what is it all dependent on as well how long this lasts, I think if they can come up with a plan, they will.

 

[Soap_1984]

They better do something I had 300 points out for a may booking; 160 of which I could at least have banked in January. if they say the points are lost they will be spending more money than just working out a solution. It wouldn't overload the system to distribute the lost points back over several years or provide at least a refund of the dues since the resorts aren't open anyway. They will do something I'm sure; it would be in their best interest.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I borrowed from 2021. All I ask is if I cant go because of closures they send them back to their original use year.

 

[Soap_1984]

That I think they have already agreed they are doing. My understanding, and there have been conflicting reports coming from disney even, is those past the banking deadline and using expiring points that have already been banked that are being told the points are lost. If two months results in "throwing off the whole system" I'm pretty sure the system is not a very good system but I'll reserve judgement until things return to normalcy and disney really knows the number of points that would be released into the system.

 

[Sandisw]

That I think they have already agreed they are doing. My understanding, and there have been conflicting reports coming from disney even, is those past the banking deadline and using expiring points that have already been banked that are being told the points are lost. If two months results in "throwing off the whole system" I'm pretty sure the system is not a very good system but I'll reserve judgement until things return to normalcy and disney really knows the number of points that would be released into the system.

I think we are seeing the aspect of a points based timeshare and the effect it has when closure happens,

But, there is really is no way around loss of use for some. Like I said, we have no way of knowing how many points we are talking about...and points represent rooms.

Say they decide to let all these points back next year but then there is no availability for those or other members points. Would that be better?

Can you imagine if people are faced with only bungalows or cabins?

We just don’t have all the information that DVCM has and that we have to trust that if they don’t make any adjustments to banking rules or expiring points, they can’t because of its future effect.

If they do, people have to be prepared that it might not be the same solution that they want it to be,

 

[Soap_1984]

I think we are seeing the aspect of a points based timeshare and the effect it has when closure happens,

But, there is really is no way around loss of use for some. Like I said, we have no way of knowing how many points we are talking about...and points represent rooms.

Say they decide to let all these points back next year but then there is no availability for those or other members points. Would that be better?

Can you imagine if people are faced with only bungalows or cabins?

We just don’t have all the information that DVCM has and that we have to trust that if they don’t make any adjustments to banking rules or expiring points, they can’t because of its future effect.

If they do, people have to be prepared that it might not be the same solution that they want it to be,

I don't disagree but, considering this is a completely random event, I'd say it should effect everyone somewhat equally rather than just a very small proportion massively. Personally, if they had to take 1% of everyone's points to redistribute from everyone in year 2025 to equalize, I don't think it would really kill everyone to help try and make everyone whole. Keep in mind they also have unsold points at resorts, including at riviera, they could easily do something for everyone so a small population don't get completely screwed based purely on the fact that they booked a vacation while disney was closed.
If that's the final decision they are placing certain members interests above others for really no fathomable reason.

I'm not trying to make a huge deal and cry afoul, but you have to be fair if you were booked for April with 300 points and a may use year, you couldn't possibly just sit there and say "well too bad for me". They'd be treating cash guests 100x better than the dvc members...it makes no sense. My point is just that there is a solution, it may be money or free passes or whatever but yeah they have to do something.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't disagree but, considering this is a completely random event, I'd say it should effect everyone somewhat equally rather than just a very small proportion massively. Personally, if they had to take 1% of everyone's points to redistribute from everyone in year 2025 to equalize, I don't think it would really kill everyone to help try and make everyone whole. Keep in mind they also have unsold points at resorts, including at riviera, they could easily do something for everyone so a small population don't get completely screwed based purely on the fact that they booked a vacation while disney was closed.
If that's the final decision they are placing certain members interests above others for really no fathomable reason.

I'm not trying to make a huge deal and cry afoul, but you have to be fair if you were booked for April with 300 points and a may use year, you couldn't possibly just sit there and say "well too bad for me". They'd be treating cash guests 100x better than the dvc members...it makes no sense. My point is just that there is a solution, it may be money or free passes or whatever but yeah they have to do something.

I get it, but, to be fair, traveling at the end year is risky and IMO, a member took the risk when they made that decision because if something happens, you have no option to rebook.

I don’t say that to be inconsiderate, but the reality is this is a timeshare that is guided by Florida Timeshare Laws, as well as legalities related to the contracts we have.

We certainly can all share ideas that might help, but those ideas may not be legally possible, which is why I said, if DVCM can figure out a way to support, they will, They have said they are evaluating that decision which leads me to believe nothing can really be fixed until they have a better idea of how many points we are talking about.

IMO, we, as owners, need to understand that there is no way to close the resorts for at least 4 weeks...most likely closer to 6 - 8...and expect no one to suffer a loss of use of points. We are not cash guests. We are real estate owners, It is not the responsibility of Disney Parks and Resorts to fix this problem, We may not like that, but that is what we signed up for when we bought.

It is a sad reality of the current situation.

 

[mickeyluvr]

Ms. Moderator,

How you can sit there in your smug little world and basically say "too bad for you if you were unlucky enough to have booked a reservation during this time". How dare you?
We have a 267-point reservation at Hilton Head beginning April 17. I used a combination of banked and current year points when I made it LAST FALL (so don't tell me not to wait until the last minute, I clearly did not). Both are August use years, and as deadlines for banking/cancelling approached we struggled with what to do. The going advice out of Disney at that time---yes, I called to ask---was not to worry, they'd waive the banking deadline of March 31 for at least the current use year points (167). They were not sure what would happened to the banked points (100). We took them at their word. Now this.
I noticed someone borrowed points for a now-cancelled ressie and was permitted to return them to the (borrowed) use year. So I guess if you borrow from the future Disney will make you whole, but if you use your current use year (or heaven help you have the audacity to use points you banked according to Disney's rules last year), you're just out of luck. Explain to me how that's fair.
If we'd paid cash for that reservation I'm quite sure Disney would be refunding our $$. But, we were stupid enough to be very loyal Disney patrons, bought into their "club", and are now getting the short end of the stick (I'd use stronger words but they'd probably get me banned). Reminds me of the legions of folks who worked for a company for 30 years and were forced out in cost-cutting measures, and the the corporate employers wonder why their younger employees have no loyalty.DUH!!

 

[Sandisw]

Ms. Moderator,

How you can sit there in your smug little world and basically say "too bad for you if you were unlucky enough to have booked a reservation during this time". How dare you?
We have a 267-point reservation at Hilton Head beginning April 17. I used a combination of banked and current year points when I made it LAST FALL (so don't tell me not to wait until the last minute, I clearly did not). Both are August use years, and as deadlines for banking/cancelling approached we struggled with what to do. The going advice out of Disney at that time---yes, I called to ask---was not to worry, they'd waive the banking deadline of March 31 for at least the current use year points (167). They were not sure what would happened to the banked points (100). We took them at their word. Now this.
I noticed someone borrowed points for a now-cancelled ressie and was permitted to return them to the (borrowed) use year. So I guess if you borrow from the future Disney will make you whole, but if you use your current use year (or heaven help you have the audacity to use points you banked according to Disney's rules last year), you're just out of luck. Explain to me how that's fair.
If we'd paid cash for that reservation I'm quite sure Disney would be refunding our $$. But, we were stupid enough to be very loyal Disney patrons, bought into their "club", and are now getting the short end of the stick (I'd use stronger words but they'd probably get me banned). Reminds me of the legions of folks who worked for a company for 30 years and were forced out in cost-cutting measures, and the the corporate employers wonder why their younger employees have no loyalty.DUH!!

There is no need to become snarky. I am sharing thoughts based on the system as a whole and how it works,

I have said I feel for people who are in a situation of losing points and that I don’t think any rules should have been changed, other than holding to allow people to book trips more than 60 days out .

But, I am also an owner that understands..or believe I do,,.that it is DVCMs job to make sure long term sustainability is protected,

So, if the decisions made by them cause a loss of points then I believe it was made because it had to be made that way, I have chosen not to be angry because I believe they are doing the best job they can for the membership as a whole.

Feel free to disagree. I have spent my time reading over my POS because I realized I didn’t really do it and now have a much clearer understanding of what I bought and it’s limitations, including that TWDC is not responsible in any way to the owners for losses,

It was a pretty eye opening exercise for me, and if I can share that knowledge with others I will.

 

[msteddom]

If I can't make it to Aulani in June I will lose 50 points that I banked from 2019 (Feb. use year) , if I'm understanding to rules correctly. I'm upset that this might happen, but I also realize that lot can happen in the next two and a half months. So we'll see.

Melissa

 

[Sandisw]

If I can't make it to Aulani in June I will lose 50 points that I banked from 2019 (Feb. use year) , if I'm understanding to rules correctly. I'm upset that this might happen, but I also realize that lot can happen in the next two and a half months. So we'll see.

Melissa

Your 2019 banked points will only be lost if you don’t use them by January 31st, 2021., the end of your Feb 2020 UY

 

[msteddom]

Your 2019 banked points will only be lost if you don’t use them by January 31st, 2021., the end of your Feb 2020 UY

I hope so! I know 50 points isn’t a lot to most people, but I only have a 50 point contract. So this Aulani vacation is using two years worth of points!

ETA: I see now that this is the correct interpretation. I don’t know why I was confusing banking with borrowing. While I will be really disappointed if I can’t go to Aulani in June, at least I won’t lose points. My heart goes out to anyone that will!

 

[drusba]

I am a DVC owner, over 270 points were supposed to be used for a stay in mid March. Disney closed the parks and cancelled the reservations. The parks will reopen after the points will have expired and they now tell me I cannot bank the lost points for a stay next year. This will result in ALL the points being lost!
In the middle of a crisis, this seems unconscionable. Has anyone else experienced this?

When you say you cannot bank the points, is that something you were told by DVC and, if so,what class of points are they? The current coronavirus point rules for cancelled reservations do not allow you to bank points that were already banked when they went into the reservation. However, all current use year points can be banked into the next use year and all borrowed points can be returned to the use year from which they came, and those rules apply even if the cancelation occurs 30 days or fewert from arrival date.

Thus, the only points in your canceled reservation that will expire at the end of this use year are the ones that were already banked when they went into the original reservation. If someone at Member Services has indicated to you that any current use year points are non-bankable or any borrowed points are not returnable to their original use year, then you received wrong information and should call MS to have the issue corrected.

As to already banked points that are lost, DVC has not decided to modify the applicable rule. However, it does state in the new notification that you should have in your online DVC account that it is at least thinking about whether anything can be done.

 

[Judique]

I get it, but, to be fair, traveling at the end year is risky and IMO, a member took the risk when they made that decision because if something happens, you have no option to rebook.

I don’t say that to be inconsiderate, but the reality is this is a timeshare that is guided by Florida Timeshare Laws, as well as legalities related to the contracts we have.

We certainly can all share ideas that might help, but those ideas may not be legally possible, which is why I said, if DVCM can figure out a way to support, they will, They have said they are evaluating that decision which leads me to believe nothing can really be fixed until they have a better idea of how many points we are talking about.

IMO, we, as owners, need to understand that there is no way to close the resorts for at least 4 weeks...most likely closer to 6 - 8...and expect no one to suffer a loss of use of points. We are not cash guests. We are real estate owners, It is not the responsibility of Disney Parks and Resorts to fix this problem, We may not like that, but that is what we signed up for when we bought.

It is a sad reality of the current situation.

I think that's where a lot of people get bogged down. Not separating Disney Parks from Disney Vacation Development. Two separate companies. There are crossovers sometimes, things such as small perks, discounts and events such as Moonlight Madness that are negotiated for us, that also lead to the 'Disney should fix this' mentality.

As you are stating, it is still too early for DVC to assess this problem and make everyone whole again. The pandemic is not over. There could be several more months of this - easily. What if it goes for 6 months? The longer there is a shut down the more people will have losses, and will all have a much more difficult time rebooking what we usually count on.

This is not anyone's fault. It's a national emergency, a world emergency where people are dying. It has to run it's course and in saying that, until it does run it's course, it will be difficult to fix this issue.

 

[Sandisw]

When you say you cannot bank the points, is that something you were told by DVC and, if so,what class of points are they? The current coronavirus point rules for cancelled reservations do not allow you to bank points that were already banked when they went into the reservation. However, all current use year points can be banked into the next use year and all borrowed points can be returned to the use year from which they came, and those rules apply even if the cancelation occurs 30 days or fewert from arrival date.

Thus, the only points in your canceled reservation that will expire at the end of this use year are the ones that were already banked when they went into the original reservation. If someone at Member Services has indicated to you that any current use year points are non-bankable or any borrowed points are not returnable to their original use year, then you received wrong information and should call MS to have the issue corrected.

As to already banked points that are lost, DVC has not decided to modify the applicable rule. However, it does state in the new notification that you should have in your online DVC account that it is at least thinking about whether anything can be done.

April and June UY 2019 points will also expire as those UYs are beyond the banking window,

They are not allowing banking of any current UY points that have passed the 8 month mark,

 

[Soap_1984]

There is no need to become snarky. I am sharing thoughts based on the system as a whole and how it works,

I have said I feel for people who are in a situation of losing points and that I don’t think any rules should have been changed, other than holding to allow people to book trips more than 60 days out .

But, I am also an owner that understands..or believe I do,,.that it is DVCMs job to make sure long term sustainability is protected,

So, if the decisions made by them cause a loss of points then I believe it was made because it had to be made that way, I have chosen not to be angry because I believe they are doing the best job they can for the membership as a whole.

Feel free to disagree. I have spent my time reading over my POS because I realized I didn’t really do it and now have a much clearer understanding of what I bought and it’s limitations, including that TWDC is not responsible in any way to the owners for losses,

It was a pretty eye opening exercise for me, and if I can share that knowledge with others I will.

Geez...long term sustainability is protected for who? The members, of which I am one and so is the other person.

I honestly can't believe your position on this lol. Cash reservation gets their money back, Borrowed from a future year gets points back. I understand how the system works I know there is risk. But that's MY risk, if I can't go I can't go because I'm sick or whatever I can't blame disney. That isn't what happened THEY AREN'T OPEN! If they aren't open how is that my risk; did you got to devry?

TO say there's nothing they can do because they need to protect members is to hold non affected members above affected ones. To say there's nothing they can do is saying it isn't worth the effort and they don't care.

 

[Ben E N]

The fairest solution in my mind is to have Disney buy a part of Riviera themselves and open it up to members. They could temporarily drop resale restrictions while those who lost their points during this time either book there, or owners at other resorts book there and the impacted owners book at those resorts. This would only have to be done for a couple of years. Once those points are used up, Disney can sell those points (are they really thinking they would sell out in a down economy anyway?) and the resale restrictions can go back into place.
That way, the only things being lost are housekeeping and wear and tear on some rooms that were previously not being planned on being used for some time.

 

[Sandisw]

Geez...long term sustainability is protected for who? The members, of which I am one and so is the other person.

I honestly can't believe your position on this lol. Cash reservation gets their money back, Borrowed from a future year gets points back. I understand how the system works I know there is risk. But that's MY risk, if I can't go I can't go because I'm sick or whatever I can't blame disney. That isn't what happened THEY AREN'T OPEN! If they aren't open how is that my risk; did you got to devry?

TO say there's nothing they can do because they need to protect members is to hold non affected members above affected ones. To say there's nothing they can do is saying it isn't worth the effort and they don't care.

First, that is not what I said, I said that I believe they will do what they can as the email says they are trying to figure it out.

Second, I said I now understand the limitations and that there is no way the system can make everyone whole and that whether it be now or later, people will lose points, I also said I don’t think they should be putting borrowed points back.

Third, I am okay that people disagree with me, and don’t have to like my stance, but I base my responses on the situation at hand,

I will say again, yes, I feel bad for people who will stand to lose points and if DVCM comes up with a plan, that would be awesome
.
But I choose not to subscribe to the notion that this is an outrage and all owners should feel thst way.