Hate to do this, but have a topic about abortion...

[minniepumpernickel]

Okay, here's a question for those of you who support abortion rights, but get so angry at protesters carrying pictures of aborted fetuses. I'm sure it won't be taken this way, but it really is a sincere question.

Why does it bother you so much that these pictures are displayed? I mean, those are pictures of what an abortion does. That's a fact. Now, I'm not talking about the people yelling murderer, bombing abortion clinics, etc.because I think most will agree that those types of protesting is way wrong. I just honestly don't understand the stance of "I support abortion choice, just don't let me see the reality of it", which is what I feel you are saying if you object to those pictures.

Perhaps these pictures are fake, or doctored up to look really bad. Who knows where these fanatics get the pictures. Am I supposed to believe that some nut-job who wants to bomb abortion clinics has a legitimate picture? Maybe more people are just mad that this protester isn't locked up in a nuthouse somewhere.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I also wanted to add that nobody really knows the mental state of the people who are parading around with these pictures. If they are crazy enough to harass people than maybe they are crazy enough to be violent.


You know that white supremacist who is a suspect in murdering the federal judges family, he came to my town years ago to lead a "peaceful" Nazi rally. He always claimed to be non-violent too. Look where he is now!

 

[Amberle3]

Why does it bother you so much that these pictures are displayed? I mean, those are pictures of what an abortion does. That's a fact. Now, I'm not talking about the people yelling murderer, bombing abortion clinics, etc.because I think most will agree that those types of protesting is way wrong. I just honestly don't understand the stance of "I support abortion choice, just don't let me see the reality of it", which is what I feel you are saying if you object to those pictures.

I think part of the problem - as I see it - is that many places that are doing abortions and being targeted aren't just doing abortions, they're also doing other aspects related to pregnancy & health. There have been several cases mentioned on this thread already of people who have had to go to clinics for things unrelated to abortions but have been confronted with these things.

A woman who is pregnant but worried about miscarriage doesn't need to be confronted with images of aborted fetuses. That's just disturbing and stressful to her, and may actually worsen her situation.

I had a coworker once who had a miscarriage and had to go in for a D&C. She was very upset about the miscarriage and in very fragile mental state, and I'm sure if there had been protesters there with pictures like that she would have completely lost it.

I'm all for freedom of speech, and frankly I think if folks want to peacefully protest at abortion clinics then that's their right. But I think it would be a darn good idea if they made sure that the places they're demonstrating ONLY do abortions, otherwise their actions may very well do harm to women that are not there for abortions.

 

[CynJ]

Okay, here's a question for those of you who support abortion rights, but get so angry at protesters carrying pictures of aborted fetuses. I'm sure it won't be taken this way, but it really is a sincere question.

Why does it bother you so much that these pictures are displayed? I mean, those are pictures of what an abortion does. That's a fact. Now, I'm not talking about the people yelling murderer, bombing abortion clinics, etc.because I think most will agree that those types of protesting is way wrong. I just honestly don't understand the stance of "I support abortion choice, just don't let me see the reality of it", which is what I feel you are saying if you object to those pictures.

Speaking solely for myself, I have no issues with people protesting peacefully and displaying photos/posters of whatever they feel is important to their cause. Its when they cross the line between peaceful protest and harrassment that I have issues.

I personally told one protester who was going to grab my arm to prevent me from going into the clinic that I would have them arrested for assault if they touched me.

And I found it hysterical when another 20yr old woman was trying to get through the same crowd and she yelled out "if you don't let me get to the clinic and refill my birthcontrol pills I will have to come back in three months for an abortion"

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Okay, here's a question for those of you who support abortion rights, but get so angry at protesters carrying pictures of aborted fetuses. I'm sure it won't be taken this way, but it really is a sincere question.

Why does it bother you so much that these pictures are displayed? I mean, those are pictures of what an abortion does. That's a fact. Now, I'm not talking about the people yelling murderer, bombing abortion clinics, etc.because I think most will agree that those types of protesting is way wrong. I just honestly don't understand the stance of "I support abortion choice, just don't let me see the reality of it", which is what I feel you are saying if you object to those pictures.

I think the pics are good information as are having the woman who is having an abortion to actually see the ultra-sound before getting one.

I think the points of what I saw here that I have been agreeing with are the element of hostility that characterizes the protests outside of clinics. That is uncalled for. I'm guessing they're mentioning the pics b/c that's what the protestors are carrying when they are being belligerent.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I think the pics are good information as are having the woman who is having an abortion to actually see the ultra-sound before getting one.

I think the points of what I saw here that I have been agreeing with are the element of hostility that characterizes the protests outside of clinics. That is uncalled for. I'm guessing they're mentioning the pics b/c that's what the protestors are carrying when they are being belligerent.

Where do these people get the pictures? What stage of the pregnancy are the pictures form? Do they have the woman's permission to use the pictures? Do they get them off of the internet?

If they are going to use pictures, shouldn't they provide some background information? It just sounds like a scare tactic to me.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Let me just say one more thing. Yesterday, Totalia's story really got me involved in the other post about this subject. I really felt for her. She shouldn't have to defend her choice so vehemently. Anyone that requires that of her must be sociopathic (in my eyes). I also feel the same way about Jenny. Anyone who has a problem with them must have some really deep issues.

So...I hope that Chobie sees this post too, cause she is absolutey brilliant when it comes to discussing this subject.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I saw a lot of those pictures years ago, before the internet. I have also seen a video of an abortion. I also agree that if the mother's life isn't in danger like Totalia and Jenny's situations, I think they should show these images to women. Not as a scare tactic but for educational reasons. I knew quite a few girls in high school (this was only 5 years ago) that thought an abortion was a pill that you took. They didn't realize that it was an envasive procedure. They make us see videos of childbirth, which is supposed to be more deadlly than abortions, right? I also disagree with protesters. I think they are aweful. Even the most pro-life people in my family think that they are horrible. I mean gee, there's a concept, let's bomb a clinic and kill everyone in it when we're against murder...


PS let's try to kepp the rest of this thread nice, since the other one was closed. Spread

 

[chobie]

Let me just say one more thing. Yesterday, Totalia's story really got me involved in the other post about this subject. I really felt for her. She shouldn't have to defend her choice so vehemently. Anyone that requires that of her must be sociopathic (in my eyes). I also feel the same way about Jenny. Anyone who has a problem with them must have some really deep issues.

So...I hope that Chobie sees this post too, cause she is absolutey brilliant when it comes to discussing this subject.

Thanks Minnie! I'm a bit scared to get back into this because even though I feel I try hard to be respectful and stick to the points of the argument, any controversial thread I'm in tends to get locked.

I have a hard time with the posters who told Jenny and Totalia what they would do IF they were in those situations. No one can predict how they will react when under the stress and trauma of having their life threatened be it by disease, or a violent husband, or any other situation. How many women have told themselves if they were ever in a rape situation they would fight back, only to freeze up? How many people thought if they came across their child choking or drowning they would react calmly and rationally only to completely lose it when actually confronted with the situation?

As to the pictures of the allegedly "aborted" fetuses, you summed it up quite well, thank you.

 

[snoopy]

Where do these people get the pictures? What stage of the pregnancy are the pictures form? Do they have the woman's permission to use the pictures? Do they get them off of the internet?

If they are going to use pictures, shouldn't they provide some background information? It just sounds like a scare tactic to me.

Those are my concerns too, Minnie.

And I'm absolutely certain they are used as a scare tactic. They are not used to educate, they are used to terrorize.

 

[chobie]

On the subject of ultrasounds, if privately funded anti-abortion clinic want to use them to talk a woman out of an abortion, I have no problem with. It should not be a requirement for clinic who perform abortions, however. That would place an unfair financial burden on the patients and clinic. Also it is not the place of a medical clinic to educate a patient on anything other than the risks to their body and an ultrasound is not needed to do that.

In some cases, having an abortion is just taking a pill and we don't show people videos of other medical procedures. You can take a prenatal class that shows childbirth films, but there is no requirement to watch a film in order to give birth and abortion should not be treated any differently than any other medical procedure.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

Perhaps these pictures are fake, or doctored up to look really bad. Who knows where these fanatics get the pictures. Am I supposed to believe that some nut-job who wants to bomb abortion clinics has a legitimate picture? Maybe more people are just mad that this protester isn't locked up in a nuthouse somewhere.

Why on earth would they doctor them? You can find abortion pictures in many places including legitimate medical websites? Who said they were nut jobs wanting to bomb the clinic? Just because someone is protesting with these pics means that they are a nutjob who wants to bomb it? That's a pretty rude assumption on your part, IMO.

If they are going to use pictures, shouldn't they provide some background information? It just sounds like a scare tactic to me.

So, if they were sitting quietly with pictures that had captions such as "Aborted fetus, 10 weeks" or "Aborted fetus, 16 weeks" that would be okay?

The scare tactic argument just doesn't make any sense to me. If someone is scared/bothered by reality, so be it.

I have a hard time with the posters who told Jenny and Totalia what they would do IF they were in those situations. No one can predict how they will react when under the stress and trauma of having their life threatened be it by disease, or a violent husband, or any other situation.

This happens the time on ALL the DIS in many, many threads where people make comments about any given situation.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I should add. While it may not have been the exact situation that jenny and toaltia expereienced, some of the posters in question may indeed have been in a situation where abortion was offered/suggested as an alternative, where the baby's or their own life was in danger, me included.

 

[chobie]

I should add. While it may not have been the exact situation that jenny and toaltia expereienced, some of the posters in question may indeed have been in a situation where abortion was offered/suggested as an alternative, where the baby's or their own life was in danger, me included.

I am allowed to have a hard time with it or think it is insensitive and/or hypocritical, just as others are allowed to assert what they WOULD do if in the same situation.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

I am allowed to have a hard time with it or think it is insensitive and/or hypocritical, just as others are allowed to assert what they WOULD do if in the same situation.

Yes, you are allowed that.....never said you weren't, but do you feel that way when people post "What I would do" opinions in other posts, or just this one?

 

[chobie]

Yes, you are allowed that.....never said you weren't, but do you feel that way when people post "What I would do" opinions in other posts, or just this one?

This one. I don't think even if one has been in similar situations to the two mentioned they can still say it was the same. Posts that have to do with paying for the correct amount of ice cream scoops or what to say to pushy in-laws are on quite a different level and should be treated differently. Besides Totalia and Jenny were not the OP here.

 

[6_Time_Momma]

double post

 

[6_Time_Momma]

This one. I don't think even if one has been in similar situations to the two mentioned they can still say it was the same. Posts that have to do with paying for the correct amount of ice cream scoops or what to say to pushy in-laws are on quite a different level and should be treated differently. Besides Totalia and Jenny were not the OP here.

I (obviously) will have to disagree. I think it is perfectly legitimate for people to post what they believe they would do in any given situation. I don't see that as hypocritical or insensitive at all.

If I posted that, because I took Accutane within a week of becoming pregnant and the chance of birth defects in the baby was very, very high, and that I opted to go ahead with the pregnancy, I would completely and totally expect people to say "I wouldn't have. I would've aborted". Or "how could you risk having a severely deformed baby? It says right in Accutane literature that abortions are recommended in the event of pregnancy". Heck, I would even expect people to question why on earth I would've let myself get pregnant knowing I was on Accutane.

I don't see that as hypocritical or insensitive. I think that is human nature to try and put outselves in that situation and decide how we would handle it.

 

[chobie]

I (obviously) will have to disagree. I think it is perfectly legitimate for people to post what they believe they would do in any given situation. I don't see that as hypocritical or insensitive at all.

Neither person asked what anyone else would do in their situation and to tell people that their doctors are just using "scare" tactic to get them to abort does seem rather insensitive to say the least JMHO.

 

[chobie]

I (obviously) will have to disagree. I think it is perfectly legitimate for people to post what they believe they would do in any given situation. I don't see that as hypocritical or insensitive at all.

If I posted that, because I took Accutane within a week of becoming pregnant and the chance of birth defects in the baby was very, very high, and that I opted to go ahead with the pregnancy, I would completely and totally expect people to say "I wouldn't have. I would've aborted". Or "how could you risk having a severely deformed baby? It says right in Accutane literature that abortions are recommended in the event of pregnancy". Heck, I would even expect people to question why on earth I would've let myself get pregnant knowing I was on Accutane.

I don't see that as hypocritical or insensitive. I think that is human nature to try and put outselves in that situation and decide how we would handle it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your health was fine in this situation?