"Hate Speech" or the Truth?

[Laugh O. Grams]

Here's a fresh idea:

If you don't like what's going on, maybe you're voting for the wrong people.

Unfortunately, the hard right wingers still think that the war is going swimmingly. Luckily for the rest of us, Bush is starting to hear disgruntled rumblings from Congress members of his own party. The same members, mind you, who are a bit closer to the voters and hear daily from the citizens of the states they represent.

 

[Lebjwb]

"What's going on here is a discussion of people who see problems and want solutions."

Whatever you say. I suppose, in some circles, practicing "Bush loathing" might be considered a "discussion." But to me what you are doing is simply laughable. You continue to run the same tired rhetoric up the same weather-worn flagpole even after people have long ago ceased saluting. You talk a good game about "wanting solutions", but yet offer nothing but complaints. Indeed the extent of your offerings is merely a string of ad hominem attacks.

Admittedly, problems exist. Solutions can be found, but not in practicing fear and loathing of the current administration. That's not a solution, but a strategy for continued failure.

You continue to run the same tired rhetoric up the same weather-worn flagpole even after people have long ago ceased saluting.

I guess all these folks don't count...

Newsweek Poll: Bush’s Battle
More Americans are questioning U.S. strategy in Iraq.

WEB EXCLUSIVE
Newsweek
Updated: 12:13 p.m. ET Aug. 6, 2005


Aug. 6, 2005 - As U.S. troops endured a deadly week in Iraq, 61 percent of Americans polled say they disapprove of the way President George W. Bush is handling the war in Iraq, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll. Thirty four percent say they approve. This is Bush’s lowest rating on Iraq and the first time it has dropped below 40 percent in the NEWSWEEK poll. And 50 percent of those polled say the United States is losing ground in its efforts to establish security and democracy in Iraq; just 40 percent say the U.S. is making progress there.

A NEWSWEEK poll taken one month ago showed that 41 percent of Americans approved of Bush’s handling of Iraq; 54 percent did not.

While 26 percent of those polled say they support keeping large numbers of U.S. military personnel in Iraq for as long as it takes to achieve U.S. goals there, 38 percent say they would support keeping troops there less than a year, 13 percent say one to two years and 12 percent volunteered that troops should be brought home now.

Meanwhile, Bush’s approval ratings have dropped to 42 percent; 51 percent of Americans say they disapprove of the way Bush is handling his job as president. Bush’s approval ratings reached a high of 88 percent in his first term, in the month after the September 11 attacks. Forty-two percent is his low.

Fifty-four percent of Americans say they are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the United States at this time, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. Just over a third say they are satisfied.

For the entire article:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8849936/site/newsweek/print/1/displaymode/1098/


First step of the Iraq solution?

Don't go there in the first place. Oops didn't listen to us then did you? Well guess what? Now we're stuck with it until the next election cycle. More troops and civilians are going to be slaughtered for this lie and that truely sucks. But I get to wake up every morning without any blood on my hands cause I didn't vote for the liar, how about you? And if you think it's bad now, wait until the Iraq three way civil war kicks into high gear. the neo-cons are getting just what they asked for and all the rest of us are going to pay for it.

You voted for this mess, YOU come up with a solution. (BTW status quo ain't gonna cut it.)

We're all waiting for an answer.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

And if you think it's bad now, wait until the Iraq three way civil war kicks into high gear.

What do you mean "kicks into high gear"?!?! Our young men and women in the military are standing in the middle of a civil war right now!! Problem is...noone in the current administration is willing to admit the truth!! Bush needs to look at the issue with a realistic eye, set up a timetable and get our kids out!!!

 

[Teejay32]

Whatever you say. I suppose, in some circles, practicing "Bush loathing" might be considered a "discussion." But to me what you are doing is simply laughable. You continue to run the same tired rhetoric up the same weather-worn flagpole even after people have long ago ceased saluting. You talk a good game about "wanting solutions", but yet offer nothing but complaints. Indeed the extent of your offerings is merely a string of ad hominem attacks.

ITA. If we were really in the game here someone would might try to convince me why I should oppose Kurdish independence for the greater good of Iraq unity and "stability in the region", but I think that kind of discussion died with the Debate Board, and was replaced by these weekly self-flogging rituals. But the one positive thing is, we all want troop withdrawal on some schedule. So things could be worse.

 

[Lebjwb]

Unfortunately, the hard right wingers still think that the war is going swimmingly. Luckily for the rest of us, Bush is starting to hear disgruntled rumblings from Congress members of his own party. The same members, mind you, who are a bit closer to the voters and hear daily from the citizens of the states they represent.

And the most outrageous of all?

The Neo-Cons implication that if the Democrats would just get on board the Bu$h war train we'd "win" this thing. Our failure in the Middle-east is the fault of the Democrats for questioning Bu$h.



What a load of horse hockey!

 

[Lebjwb]

What do you mean "kicks into high gear"?!?! Our young men and women in the military are standing in the middle of it right now!! Bush needs to look at the issue with a realistic eye, set up a timetable and get our kids out!!!

Oh yes...much worse. The secular Kurds are fighting against an Islamic type of Iraq gov't. The Sunnis are being given the geographic middle of the country which has little if any oil unlike the Kurdish north and the Shiite south. Half the delegates want federalism....it's a mess.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

Oh yes...much worse. The secular Kurds are fighting against an Islamic type of Iraq gov't. The Sunnis are being given the geographic middle of the country which has little if any oil unlike the Kurdish north and the Shiite south. Half the delegates want federalism....it's a mess.

...and the US military, which is being used for target practice, and I guess...school construction. Pisses me off!

 

[peachgirl]

If we were really in the game here someone would might try to convince me why I should oppose Kurdish independence for the greater good of Iraq unity and "stability in the region"....

Because it will never happen....

I'm going to let you guess who said this....

Hint: Most likely won't be getting any more checks from the White House....

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]But somewhere along the way we were misled by the image of the middle east we wanted, instead of the middle east that exists. Iraqi citizens are not waving American flags. They are strapping bombs to themselves just for the opportunity to detonate a few American servicemen with them. [/font] [font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]The deterioration of Iraq serves as an unmistakable reminder of the flawed manner in which we carried out this mission. A global democracy works only when countries trust one another. America’s insistence on burrowing into Iraq without substantial proof that they possessed weapons of mass destruction frayed that trust, and will inevitably sew problems into our foreign relations missions for decades to come. It also served as a touchtone, uniting our enemies. The longer we stay, the more people will come from all over the world to fight us—not to fight for Iraq, but to fight against the United States....[/font]

[font=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]And indeed, the struggle not to be lorded over by America has proved quite galvanizing. Every day insurgents strap bombs to their bodies and detonate themselves in public squares. Get it? The insurgents are not trying to defeat us. They are willing to die, just to take some of us with them. We cannot win this kind of war of attrition. US soldiers are dying at a rate of one per day. Meanwhile the rest of the world is having trouble supporting the United States. You cannot lead in a global democracy, if people do not trust you. It is undeniable that we went about this in a very flawed manner. We need to admit that. We cannot solve the problem of terrorism by asserting our will on the world. Meanwhile, the deterioration of Iraq continues, serving as a sad reminder of the failed promise of this mission, and the need to pull out.[/font]

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Here's your problem: you don't know what you're talking about. I have offered solutions a half dozen times on these very boards the last time being in a discussion with "What The Heck".

Do a little research and engage your brain before opening your mouth and embarassing yourself.

Once again you rise to the occasion and deftly prove my point.

 

[ThAnswr]

...and the US military, which is being used for target practice, and I guess...school construction. Pisses me off!

Did you hear the latest joke from the Bush administration: 700 Army paratroopers are going to be deployed (open ended) to Iraq as........hold onto your hat......security.

According to Pentagon spokesman "the paratroopers had undergone training at Fort Bragg to prepare to work in detention operations."

Something tells me they went through a potful of training as paratroopers, but since Bush/Rumsfeld's approach to troop deployments is "any port in the storm", the paratroopers are now going to be used as transport security, prison guards, etc.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050817/pl_nm/iraq_usa_prisons_dc

You really can't make this stuff up.

Makes you wonder what's next............F-16 pilots deployed to Iraq for bomb disposal?

 

[ThAnswr]

Once again you rise to the occasion and deftly prove my point.

You're killing me. There really was a point other than embarassing yourself? Good grief!

Btw, hotshot, what's your solution? Here's your chance to put your money where your mouth? Why don't you show me and the good folks here just what you would do. C'mon, don't be shy.

 

[Teejay32]

Because it will never happen....

?? I disagree with you, plus that's not a reason to oppose something.

No idea who wrote that essay...I could probably find out with a search, then I'd just wonder for the nth time what is up with people and their "need to admit".

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I guess all these folks don't count...

Newsweek Poll: Bush’s Battle
More Americans are questioning U.S. strategy in Iraq.

WEB EXCLUSIVE
Newsweek
Updated: 12:13 p.m. ET Aug. 6, 2005


Aug. 6, 2005 - As U.S. troops endured a deadly week in Iraq, 61 percent of Americans polled say they disapprove of the way President George W. Bush is handling the war in Iraq, according to a new NEWSWEEK poll. Thirty four percent say they approve. This is Bush’s lowest rating on Iraq and the first time it has dropped below 40 percent in the NEWSWEEK poll. And 50 percent of those polled say the United States is losing ground in its efforts to establish security and democracy in Iraq; just 40 percent say the U.S. is making progress there.

A NEWSWEEK poll taken one month ago showed that 41 percent of Americans approved of Bush’s handling of Iraq; 54 percent did not.

While 26 percent of those polled say they support keeping large numbers of U.S. military personnel in Iraq for as long as it takes to achieve U.S. goals there, 38 percent say they would support keeping troops there less than a year, 13 percent say one to two years and 12 percent volunteered that troops should be brought home now.

Meanwhile, Bush’s approval ratings have dropped to 42 percent; 51 percent of Americans say they disapprove of the way Bush is handling his job as president. Bush’s approval ratings reached a high of 88 percent in his first term, in the month after the September 11 attacks. Forty-two percent is his low.

Fifty-four percent of Americans say they are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the United States at this time, according to the latest NEWSWEEK poll. Just over a third say they are satisfied.

For the entire article:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8849936/site/newsweek/print/1/displaymode/1098/


First step of the Iraq solution?

Don't go there in the first place. Oops didn't listen to us then did you? Well guess what? Now we're stuck with it until the next election cycle. More troops and civilians are going to be slaughtered for this lie and that truely sucks. But I get to wake up every morning without any blood on my hands cause I didn't vote for the liar, how about you? And if you think it's bad now, wait until the Iraq three way civil war kicks into high gear. the neo-cons are getting just what they asked for and all the rest of us are going to pay for it.

You voted for this mess, YOU come up with a solution. (BTW status quo ain't gonna cut it.)

We're all waiting for an answer.

And another person proves my point. Wow, it's like shooting ducks in a barrel around here.

Allow me to summarize your argument: I hate Bush; I hate neo-cons (whoever or whatever they are); I have no solutions to offer, only hate. It's not MY problem because I voted for "the other guy" (who, BTW, also had no solutions, but that's ok because he hated/hates Bush as much as I do).

The left/Dem strategy of "fear and loathing" has not realized any success (with the notable exception of President Clinton who deftly side-stepped that strategy) in over a decade. You'd think with all the brain-power available to the opposition they could come up with something new. But it's just a tired re-play the sad old tune, "I'm Just Filled with Hate 'Cause My Party's Left Me With No Solutions, No Strategy, No Success."

 

[ThAnswr]

You voted for this mess, YOU come up with a solution. (BTW status quo ain't gonna cut it.)

We're all waiting for an answer.

Whatta concept! The one who makes the mess should clean it up.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

And another person proves my point. Wow, it's like shooting ducks in a barrel around here.

Allow me to summarize your argument: I hate Bush; I hate neo-cons (whoever or whatever they are); I have no solutions to offer, only hate. It's not MY problem because I voted for "the other guy" (who, BTW, also had no solutions, but that's ok because he hated/hates Bush as much as I do).

The left/Dem strategy of "fear and loathing" has not realized any success (with the notable exception of President Clinton who deftly side-stepped that strategy) in over a decade. You'd think with all the brain-power available to the opposition they could come up with something new. But it's just a tired re-play the sad old tune, "I'm Just Filled with Hate 'Cause My Party's Left Me With No Solutions, No Strategy, No Success."

Hey ThAnswr!!! You're right. My left wing solution to the war has been completely ignored, but I think I know why!! Could it be possible that T_M has all of us Lefties set on "ignore"?

What do you think of my solution, T_M? You're becoming just as bad as the people who you don't like that rip on Bush. You offer no solutions and just post to rip on the Bush haters!

 

[ThAnswr]

And another person proves my point. Wow, it's like shooting ducks in a barrel around here.

No ideas, no solutions, no answers...........looks more like you're shooting yourself in the foot.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Btw, hotshot, what's your solution? Here's your chance to put your money where your mouth? Why don't you show me and the good folks here just what you would do. C'mon, don't be shy.

If I thought for a nanosecond that this was anything closely resembling a legitimate discussion, I would gladly jump in. But as Teejay clearly pointed out, it's just another weekly (or daily) Bush bash fest with some not-so-subtle personal attacks thrown in for "fun." This thread lost its credibility a while back; it's now useful only as a source of amusement -- watching a few people wallow in their mire of loathing.

 

[Laugh O. Grams]

If I thought for a nanosecond that this was anything closely resembling a legitimate discussion, I would gladly jump in. But as Teejay clearly pointed out, it's just another weekly (or daily) Bush bash fest with some not-so-subtle personal attacks thrown in for "fun." This thread lost its credibility a while back; it's now useful only as a source of amusement -- watching a few people wallow in their mire of loathing.

Or in other words..."Stay the course!". Well said, T_M!!

 

[ThAnswr]

If I thought for a nanosecond that this was anything closely resembling a legitimate discussion, I would gladly jump in. But as Teejay clearly pointed out, it's just another weekly (or daily) Bush bash fest with some not-so-subtle personal attacks thrown in for "fun." This thread lost its credibility a while back; it's now useful only as a source of amusement -- watching a few people wallow in their mire of loathing.

Yeah, right...........ROTFLMAO..........and a few thousand lurkers also laughing theirs off.

 

[Lebjwb]

If I thought for a nanosecond that this was anything closely resembling a legitimate discussion, I would gladly jump in. But as Teejay clearly pointed out, it's just another weekly (or daily) Bush bash fest with some not-so-subtle personal attacks thrown in for "fun." This thread lost its credibility a while back; it's now useful only as a source of amusement -- watching a few people wallow in their mire of loathing.

So you have nothing other than deflection...and even that was weak.

Thanks for stopping by.