Has Disney changed its focus on the Guest?

[ChallengerHK1]

I wasn't sure where to post this, and rteetz gave me permission to post it here. I don't wish to trash Disney, but I would like to get others' opinions and and feedback. Given that, I'd love this to be followed by an orderly conversation

I've been going to Disney since about 1985 (don't remember the first visit date exactly). I've got close to three dozen trips under my belt, fewer than many, more than many others. Since the mid 90s I've been the got-to person for my friends when planning Disney trips.

About the time that MDE was rolled out I noticed that planning got a lot harder. Significantly harder. At the time I chalked this up to the change to MDE. Some difficulties were because the system was lacking, some were because the CMs did not know the new system, etc. When I planned the first trip using MDE I was living in Saudi Arabia, and I chalked up some of the issues too that status (because, believe me, everything is harder is Saudi Arabia).

Recently I've been planning another trip, with my new wife and step-daughter. I proposed to my wife during the last trip, on the terrace of the California Grill after the fireworks, and this will be my step-daughter's first trip. I've been trying to make sure that this trip goes especially well. My wife has a disability which makes trips sometimes difficult, and my step-daughter is an adult who is predisposed against Disney, so I have my work cut out for me.

Here's what I've noticed, and what I would specifically like feedback on. Before MDE, there was an attitude at Disney; to make things brief, I'll call it the WCIDTH attitude: "What can I do to help?" When I had an issue I could call in and they would be falling all over themselves to assist me, usually going above and beyond the call of duty. Flash forward, and here's a short version of my latest call:

Me: I have this problem.
CM: I'm so sorry.
Me: Can we fix it?
CM: There's nothing I can do.
Me. How about trying this?
CM: The system won't let me do that.
Me: Can we get Department X involved?
CM: We don't speak to them.
Me: Do you have any suggestions for how to fix this?
CM: No but have a magical day.

Like I said, I had been chalking problems up to MDE...but what occurred to me after this exchange was that MDE itself is a symptom of a larger problem. Worse, this has been the model for every call I've put in over the past several years. It really looks like there's been a shift from WCIDTH to "you're on your own, bud." At the end of the call above, it got bad enough that I had to threaten to cancel the upcoming trip, opting for Universal, Sea World, etc. After that, suddenly the impossible became possible.

So what do you think? Am I right, or am I just being very unlucky with the problems I have and the CMs I talk to?

 

[jlundeen]

I understand your frustration. I've been going to Disney since about the same time, and between trips for work seminars (oh, poor me, I have to go to Disney for a seminar, mostly paid for by my company, and have to leave Minnesota in February...sniff sniff), family trips when our children were small, and now adult only trips, have lost track of the number of visits, but it's probably similar to yours.

I remember the days of the real Disney Magic (or was it because those were our first trips, and had nothing to compare), but I also remember in the 90's when the bottom dropped out of the economy and "do more with less" even impacted WDW - fewer cast members, shorter hours, not necessarily negative things, but just LESS overall.

Then, it seemed that the same thing happened to Disney that happened to practically every other big corporation..."do more with less" became major cutbacks, higher pricing, and less improvements to attractions, and prices kept going up up up.

Today, they are playing catch up. Things that should have been addressed many years ago are either just being shut down, or replaced with long range projects that keep getting trimmed back.

I'm sure many know more about the corporate thinking behind all this, but you are right, the "face" of Disney has changed. CMs are not as knowledgeable, online systems, while much improved over the days where everything you wanted had to be requested with a long-distance phone call, are often not reliable, and it seems like long range planning doesn't extend beyond the next few months. Maybe it really does, but way back when, you knew months in advance when major seasonal changes would take place and you could plan for it.

I suspect that this may be the new normal. Yes, there are some really great attractions coming down the pike, but for those of us trying to just plan a trip, it seems the right hand doesn't even know the left hand exists, much less what it's doing.

 

[DisFanDad]

Hrm, very interesting here. I think you have a solid point, I have seen a bit of this myself. I have to say that I have also had a few cast members that, themselves wanted very much to help me out with some issues, and really tried to do so, and expressed real genuine remorse when they couldn't, or had to really work hard to be able to. I think the current system very much limits the ability of CMs to address guests concerns, and often requires (if possible at all) higher ups to intervene.

That being said, with the rounds and rounds of cutbacks we have seen at WDW of late, and with statements from management about what appears to be their new model: Increasing revenue by increasing prices (even if purchases or attendance drops off) and increasing margins by cutbacks in offerings and stuff, along with increases in upcharge events. I think to a certain extent WDW has shifted focus from WCIDTH to HMMCWGFY (How much money can we get from you).

We are still enamored with WDW, and have no plans to stop going any time soon, but I do think the change in focus is a little disconcerting, and quite noticeable.

And I very much agree that I am looking forward to some of the things coming, but it does seem like a day late and a dollar short to some degree.

 

[wilkeliza]

I'm sorry that you have felt that way.

I have had the exact opposite interactions around issues with MDE. I had an issue and originally the CMs and I can up with a fix. Later on that fix was no longer an option because of a system update. I called back and the tech help CM realized it wasn't something she could fix but wanted to make sure I no longer had the issue so she upgraded it to the "fairy godmothers" who took a look. Well my account had more redirects then they had ever encountered and I had 2 accounts that were meshed in some areas but not others. So tech spent 4 days cleaning up my personal account so it works across the Disney platform correctly and it has been flawless sense.

On the other hand my friends had some issues with their magicbands and MDE while they were onsite and the CM at check in just treated them like crap and said here and there is nothing we can do. I met up with my friends and with in 15 minutes had ever single issue resolved. So it really does seem it depends on which CM you get. Some of the CMs don't care to learn the tech behind the system so are pretty useless if you are talking to them about even the simplest app issue.

The only real negative I have realized as of late is the scheduling. So many of the departments aren't talking any more (Operations, Entertainment, Marketing, etc) that now Marketing may decide they want to do a special fireworks show to drum up some business so they go to entertainment. It gets designed and released and the whole time Operations is like well crap It is less then 60 days and we have no clue if we are going to have SW Fireworks, a holiday fireworks, or no fireworks for an example. So 2 departments knew it was in the works but 1 didn't so guest were kept out in the dark. That is incredibly frustrating for sure.

 

[DisFanDad]

I'm sorry that you have felt that way.

I have had the exact opposite interactions around issues with MDE. I had an issue and originally the CMs and I can up with a fix. Later on that fix was no longer an option because of a system update. I called back and the tech help CM realized it wasn't something she could fix but wanted to make sure I no longer had the issue so she upgraded it to the "fairy godmothers" who took a look. Well my account had more redirects then they had ever encountered and I had 2 accounts that were meshed in some areas but not others. So tech spent 4 days cleaning up my personal account so it works across the Disney platform correctly and it has been flawless sense.

This is an example of what I was referring to, that I think in the current system its often that the regular CMs really can't help you, someone higher up the chain needs to.

 

[rteetz]

I understand your frustrations.

Regarding your call and them not helping I'd like to mention that most Disney call centers are not onsite at WDW and often are just call centers they don't do much more than that. Usually they are able to transfer you so that part seems strange but call centers are definitely not the best in my opinion.

 

[loves to dive]

I, too, have been going since around that time and I, too, have too many trips under my belt to count (and I've lived in Saudi Arabia as well). I agree with you to a point. MDE is probably one of the worst systems around, barring any government database, ever tried filing your employer state taxes on line? Ever tried calling and asked for help when it didn't work. Your conversation with Disney would be like a walk in the park compared to some of the ones I've had about those databases, and to add insult to injury, you don't have a choice as to whether you use them, you have to. I digress. I think part of it might have to do with the age of the person you are talking to, a little more mature person (in my experience and there are exceptions) tends to try to be a tad more helpful than a younger person. It comes with experience. I don't buy into the job cuts and big bad corporation not caring and only out for money, trend on the boards. Yes, Disney is a big, huge, for profit organization and yes, there is most likely some disconnect between the upper and lower tiers of employees. I don't think they are purposely trying to turn people away, why would they? Possibly they got bigger than the good ole days we remember and are just having issues trying to train the masses that they now employ. I will say that I've encountered more front line CMs who are pleasant and try to help than those who don't give a flying flip. I'll also say I try to never call if I can avoid it, as you said, the people on the phone don't seem as interested in helping as those you look in the eye. I've noticed a lack of customer service everywhere when making phone calls, don't even try to call the phone company or the cable company, you might end up throwing breakable objects.

 

[wilkeliza]

This is an example of what I was referring to, that I think in the current system its often that the regular CMs really can't help you, someone higher up the chain needs to.

I have no issue with sending things higher up the chain. I work for an IT company and know there are some things our lower level coders can handle and there are others that if we are doing the best by our customer we will have to offer an apology and let them know we have escalated it to a higher team. The big issue would be when CMs say nope I can't do it and there is nobody else in the company who possibly could. It is like how in the parks some believe CMs can't say I don't know or I can't help. That isn't the real rule. The real rule is if you have to say I don't know or I can't help you then the proper way to do that is "I can't help you but let me go get my manger who may be able to." or "I don't know the answer to that question but please let me call xyz and let's find out the answer together" or "I don't know the answer to that question right now but can I get your contact information and i will follow up with you as soon as I have it" Those are all appropriate and good practices and what I expect. Thankfully I haven't gotten too many who either make up an answer or actually just say I don't know.

 

[jlundeen]

I understand your frustrations.

Regarding your call and them not helping I'd like to mention that most Disney call centers are not onsite at WDW and often are just call centers they don't do much more than that. Usually they are able to transfer you so that part seems strange but call centers are definitely not the best in my opinion.

Off-loading call centers to off-site non-disney employees was a conscious corporate decision designed more than likely to save money. As a stockholder I appreciate that aspect of corporate thinking, however, I still think that the guest should be treated as their number one asset.

The fact that not everyone, guests and cast members alike, are given the same information, and guests are not treated as if they were the only person in the world anymore, is disheartening. It won't change the fact that I still do love Disney. And I do love planning Disney trips.

It's just put too much reality back into place of the magic that used to be.

 

[DisFanDad]

I have no issue with sending things higher up the chain. I work for an IT company and know there are some things our lower level coders can handle and there are others that if we are doing the best by our customer we will have to offer an apology and let them know we have escalated it to a higher team. The big issue would be when CMs say nope I can't do it and there is nobody else in the company who possibly could. It is like how in the parks some believe CMs can't say I don't know or I can't help. That isn't the real rule. The real rule is if you have to say I don't know or I can't help you then the proper way to do that is "I can't help you but let me go get my manger who may be able to." or "I don't know the answer to that question but please let me call xyz and let's find out the answer together" or "I don't know the answer to that question right now but can I get your contact information and i will follow up with you as soon as I have it" Those are all appropriate and good practices and what I expect. Thankfully I haven't gotten too many who either make up an answer or actually just say I don't know.

Totally agree. That is how this should be handled, and if its not, that is a reflection that WDW needs to step up their customer service game again.

The other thing that I think can be problematic, as far as trips go, is that if front line CMs aren't able to handle your issue (which they were more likely to be able to under the old system) and it has to go higher up the chain, it may be too late to help the guest. We had an issue last trip while in the parks, our FPs became all messed up, a couple people couldn't use theirs, we tried for an hour at the kiosk with a CM, got nowhere. The Next day we were called by a tech person, who sorted things out with me over the phone, great, and he threw in a couple FPs. That was all well and awesome, but that didn't give us back the previous day. And if it had taken another day, well, we would have been on the plane home by then. The introduction of MDE and FP+ makes it less likely a front line CM can help and more likely it needs to go up the chain, which may mean that solutions come too late.

 

[Mousetopia]

I have seen major differences. The magic was a bit more elusive the last trip. There were some real issues that bothered me. While it might make us feel better to vent here the very best way to handle serious concerns that have hurt your experience, been poor customer service, etc. is to contact disney guest service directly. Either by email or snail mail. My experience is customer service still matters very much to Disney and they don't know there is a problem if nobody speaks up. They are responsive and usually you will get a call and it will be a real CM that works for the company. Their job is to forward the feedback to the appropriate area after gaining detail from you. So that is my suggestion to all who see changes ..let them know.

 

[kollerbear]

Flash forward, and here's a short version of my latest call:

Me: I have this problem.
CM: I'm so sorry.
Me: Can we fix it?
CM: There's nothing I can do.
Me. How about trying this?
CM: The system won't let me do that.
Me: Can we get Department X involved?
CM: We don't speak to them.
Me: Do you have any suggestions for how to fix this?
CM: No but have a magical day.

Like I said, I had been chalking problems up to MDE...but what occurred to me after this exchange was that MDE itself is a symptom of a larger problem. Worse, this has been the model for every call I've put in over the past several years. It really looks like there's been a shift from WCIDTH to "you're on your own, bud." At the end of the call above, it got bad enough that I had to threaten to cancel the upcoming trip, opting for Universal, Sea World, etc. After that, suddenly the impossible became possible.

So what do you think? Am I right, or am I just being very unlucky with the problems I have and the CMs I talk to?

I just wanted to post I had an almost identical call experience when visiting Disneyland. My husband and I were getting an error message when trying to buy our tickets online. He called the number provided and I hadn't realized it connected to sales. They couldn't help him because it was day of, and they directed him to go wait in line at the park, which put us behind schedule and made me nervous. I thought, hey if there isn't a system wide outage (which they had told him), there must be something wrong with my account. We'd tried multiple cards and got no fraud alerts. I called back and asked to be connected to IT. After a 5 minute conversation the issue was fixed. However, we wasted 20-30 minutes on hold, on the original call, rushing to leave early, etc., when it was clear to me that the cast member should have suggested my husband talk to IT. He was saying all the right things to suggest it was a problem with our account and she knew there was no system wide outage. Either this was a training issue or a service issue or what, but it was not something that required too much thought to troubleshoot from a CM perspective. Did it ruin our day? Of course not. Do I have great interactions with call center CMs? All the time. But I think it's sometimes because I know what I'm talking about and know what to ask for. My husband was extremely frustrated and I wouldn't blame him or others who have similar experiences. I'm sure that kind of thing used to happen before too but the layers of complexity added with the MDE and online accounts do make it easier for other CMs to shrug off responsibility and leave real problems unaddressed.

 

[flmom2rj]

I wasn't sure where to post this, and rteetz gave me permission to post it here. I don't wish to trash Disney, but I would like to get others' opinions and and feedback. Given that, I'd love this to be followed by an orderly conversation

I've been going to Disney since about 1985 (don't remember the first visit date exactly). I've got close to three dozen trips under my belt, fewer than many, more than many others. Since the mid 90s I've been the got-to person for my friends when planning Disney trips.

About the time that MDE was rolled out I noticed that planning got a lot harder. Significantly harder. At the time I chalked this up to the change to MDE. Some difficulties were because the system was lacking, some were because the CMs did not know the new system, etc. When I planned the first trip using MDE I was living in Saudi Arabia, and I chalked up some of the issues too that status (because, believe me, everything is harder is Saudi Arabia).

Recently I've been planning another trip, with my new wife and step-daughter. I proposed to my wife during the last trip, on the terrace of the California Grill after the fireworks, and this will be my step-daughter's first trip. I've been trying to make sure that this trip goes especially well. My wife has a disability which makes trips sometimes difficult, and my step-daughter is an adult who is predisposed against Disney, so I have my work cut out for me.

Here's what I've noticed, and what I would specifically like feedback on. Before MDE, there was an attitude at Disney; to make things brief, I'll call it the WCIDTH attitude: "What can I do to help?" When I had an issue I could call in and they would be falling all over themselves to assist me, usually going above and beyond the call of duty. Flash forward, and here's a short version of my latest call:

Me: I have this problem.
CM: I'm so sorry.
Me: Can we fix it?
CM: There's nothing I can do.
Me. How about trying this?
CM: The system won't let me do that.
Me: Can we get Department X involved?
CM: We don't speak to them.
Me: Do you have any suggestions for how to fix this?
CM: No but have a magical day.

Like I said, I had been chalking problems up to MDE...but what occurred to me after this exchange was that MDE itself is a symptom of a larger problem. Worse, this has been the model for every call I've put in over the past several years. It really looks like there's been a shift from WCIDTH to "you're on your own, bud." At the end of the call above, it got bad enough that I had to threaten to cancel the upcoming trip, opting for Universal, Sea World, etc. After that, suddenly the impossible became possible.

So what do you think? Am I right, or am I just being very unlucky with the problems I have and the CMs I talk to?

I also think that because of the changes, there are fewer full time CMs with career aspirations at WDW. It seems to me that many cast members are no longer there for the long haul, and their commitment to problem solving reflects that.
Many kudos to those CMs who are still committed to quality care for your guests.

 

[jlundeen]

I have seen major differences. The magic was a bit more elusive the last trip. There were some real issues that bothered me. While it might make us feel better to vent here the very best way to handle serious concerns that have hurt your experience, been poor customer service, etc. is to contact disney guest service directly. Either by email or snail mail. My experience is customer service still matters very much to Disney and they don't know there is a problem if nobody speaks up. They are responsive and usually you will get a call and it will be a real CM that works for the company. Their job is to forward the feedback to the appropriate area after gaining detail from you. So that is my suggestion to all who see changes ..let them know.

Yes, contacting guest services usually does result in a personal call...while the caller cannot fix everything, I usually come away satisfied.

But why does it have to be the "squeaky wheel" mentality...the ones that complain get a resolution, the ones that don't just swallow and take it. Not a good way to address issues, if you ask me.

 

[shh]

I see a lot of "one hand doesn't know what other is doing" type stuff. I had a question about an annual pass I bought. Emailed Guest Relations. Waited 2 weeks to receive this response back "Call our Guest Relations 800 number - they can help you." I called - recording said there was a 60-min wait time. I just disconnected, as I didn't want to risk waiting an hour to hear "you should probably email Guest Relations about that."

 

[AtlantaDisneyDreamer]

It also seems to me that Disney is less and less likely to go above and beyond lately (I have had conversations with CMs on the phone and in person that resulted in "Sorry can't help but have a magical day") but I have to wonder: Could it be because word has gotten out that Disney goes above and beyond and now everyone expects (and sometimes demands) pixie dust and when they don't get it they are not happy?

OP, I don't know what it was you were asking for, but I imagine that more and more people are asking for special treatment and Disney just can't throw out that much pixie dust.

Disney must get all kinds of special requests (I know- I have made them) to go above and beyond. People (like me) who book standard rooms and ask for a room close to the food court, people who want other complimentary room upgrades, people who demand connecting rooms, people who want extra fastpasses, people who want to cancel last minute and still get a refund, people who have all sorts of reasons that they can't wait in line, etc.

True that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but maybe there are just too many squeaky wheels for Disney to accommodate these days.

I am not saying that legitimate complaints about guest service do not exist. Of course they do. But I have read several threads and reviews where people are complaining about things that they really have no legitimate reason to complain about.

I do think that Disney's customer service is getting worse, but I also think that people today expect so much more than that to which they are entitled. Everyone wants to be treated as if they are special.

 

[Bob Dolewhip]

I have to say I've had some really helpful phone reps since booking our trip. One scoured available reservations (after we had already booked) for me to see if we could get free dining and found us a deal.
Another stayed on the phone with me at least ten minutes to talk about Jedi training and trying to talk me out of spending more money.
Last trip I felt the in park CMs were lacking. We had particularly bad customer service at Caseys Corner which baffles me since they have like four choices on the menu.

 

[jlundeen]

It also seems to me that Disney is less and less likely to go above and beyond lately (I have had conversations with CMs on the phone and in person that resulted in "Sorry can't help but have a magical day") but I have to wonder: Could it be because word has gotten out that Disney goes above and beyond and now everyone expects (and sometimes demands) pixie dust and when they don't get it they are not happy?

OP, I don't know what it was you were asking for, but I imagine that more and more people are asking for special treatment and Disney just can't throw out that much pixie dust.

Disney must get all kinds of special requests (I know- I have made them) to go above and beyond. People (like me) who book standard rooms and ask for a room close to the food court, people who want other complimentary room upgrades, people who demand connecting rooms, people who want extra fastpasses, people who want to cancel last minute and still get a refund, people who have all sorts of reasons that they can't wait in line, etc.

True that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but maybe there are just too many squeaky wheels for Disney to accommodate these days.

I am not saying that legitimate complaints about guest service do not exist. Of course they do. But I have read several threads and reviews where people are complaining about things that they really have no legitimate reason to complain about.

I do think that Disney's customer service is getting worse, but I also think that people today expect so much more than that to which they are entitled. Everyone wants to be treated as if they are special.

That could be part of it, for sure. As in most aspects of life, there are some who have seems to always want something for nothing. And word travels fast, especially on popular social media like this one, when someone comes home and talked about the "extras" they were given.

But I think it's more than that. Some have mentioned CM training and lack of career aspirations...I think that probably goes hand in had with works schedule cut backs, low pay, and fewer hours. Yes, there are a ton of CMs who only go through the motions of the job, and there are some who really do care about each and every guest that they encounter. What the difference is difference, in my mind anyway, is attitude. I called in for a reservation just last week and got one of the nicest, most helpful and friendliest CMs I've ever talked to. SHe didn't rush me through my call, but we talked about all sorts of things...unfortunately, I didn't have time after that call to stay on the line and do the survey....I would have given her all "excellents" for her help and attitude. I usually ldo those surveys because I feel that often my opinion may make the difference in how the future CM's training goes.

We all need to take those surveys, and to also write to guest services, but not only with complaints. Be sure to also write in to tell them about those unexpected special things that happen because a CM cared about you and your trip. I've been told that each note that contains a name of a CM goes into the CM's files, and that positive stuff can go a long ways in helping those CMs keep doing the "Magic"!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

To oversimplify:

The shift has moved measurably away from repeat clientele and more towards "high per day spending"...whatever that means.

Employee quality is "low" compared to years past because of their desire for low training and longterm investment...and ability to downsize employee requirements and specialization.

There are more people traveling...which means attention to detail can be effectively discarded in favor of volume.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I also think that because of the changes, there are fewer full time CMs with career aspirations at WDW. It seems to me that many cast members are no longer there for the long haul, and their commitment to problem solving reflects that.
Many kudos to those CMs who are still committed to quality care for your guests.

That is a result of the eisnerian breakdown of benefits/mass expansion of the workforce from 85-2000.

They cannot get ahead...or even stable/comfortable working there as they could in the early days and it is reflected in an erosion of dedication and quality. There are many exceptions...but that is the general direction that the ship has floated.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It also seems to me that Disney is less and less likely to go above and beyond lately (I have had conversations with CMs on the phone and in person that resulted in "Sorry can't help but have a magical day") but I have to wonder: Could it be because word has gotten out that Disney goes above and beyond and now everyone expects (and sometimes demands) pixie dust and when they don't get it they are not happy?

OP, I don't know what it was you were asking for, but I imagine that more and more people are asking for special treatment and Disney just can't throw out that much pixie dust.

Any mention of "magic" at this juncture is pure nonsense...that's a PR trick used by the management at this point.

However...I do concede part of your point: it is possible that Disneys reputation for "first class service" is a curse they hate...

It has driven sales...but also likely driven expectations beyond where they want them moving forward.

In the future, they will look to increase prices more and also shave services down to achieve maximum profits...they have been doing it hard for 20 years...

That "reputation" may be on their mind as a curse more than a benefit now.