Has anyone else had issues with the new Oceaneer's club/lab policies?

[justhat]

You are of course right that family is about compromise, and we will also be making do with what is offered while we are crusing, but if what is offered isn't working for us shouldn't we let Disney know that it is a bad idea to schedule a 4 hour open house right after dinner because the club was overcrowded and our kids were not haivng fun??? How can they fix it if they don't know guests are not happy with the situation??

Oh I agree, if that is the case, totally complain. I would too. I'm just saying, before we all start ranting and raving, maybe try it out first and see how it goes. Maybe it will all be fine and the complaints would be baseless. We just don't know yet, each of us, till we try it.

The thing about scheduling open houses while it is a potentially crowded time of day, maybe on that cruise it wasn't expected to be so bad? The after dinner thing is rough cause some have early dining, some late dining, so people leave their kids in the clubs for dinner, etc. So maybe they based it on many people having early dinner and not being in the clubs at those times? Or more people with kids in late dinner? I just doubt they would purposely plan open houses for a time they know would make one club or the other packed.

Oh, and as to why they would build the clubs larger than they need to, I would assume they sort of have to do this in case of emergencies like I mentioned. Like the toilets backing up in the Club. Then what? They'd need a place for those kids to go. Or some other fluke event. I mean, it's a ship, not like they'd have anywhere to go, they'd need to have extra secured space.

I'll respond to this one since you quoted me, LOL. I view things a little differently, in that I don't want my son to spend 2 hours of his vacation miserable in the place that is designed for him to have a good time. We chose DCL, largely in part, based on the superior children's programming.

My son would love to do the discover scuba excursion with my DH and DD (he already practices in our pool and is comfortable with the equipment). But he is too young for that excursion and will instead remain on the ship with me while DH and DD go. He would love to join his sister in the Tween club to check out the video games, etc (he and his older sister, surprisingly, get along really well most of the time and like to do things together). But again, he is too young to be in that space and knows he can't go.

But what does he have that he can do...the Lab. And with this new policy, his space, the one designed for him...is going to be more restricted (either requiring a parent or filled with twice as many kids)for large chunks of time. His sister doesn't have to worry about Open Houses in the Tween club. She can go whenever she wants. I can go to the Adult pool whenever I want. But now we have to check navigators the night before to see if he can go and enjoy the space that was designed (and marketed) for him.

That is what I am not happy about. I have no problem with a set schedule for Open Houses like on the Magic (3 - 6 pm every day). We can plan on it. I can make sure that we are available to join him if there is something he wants to do during the Open House. We can book Palo, spa appointments, etc around those times. But the way it is currently being done on the Wonder is a huge disappointment to parents and kids that want to use the Lab as it was intended.

Would your child truly be miserable for just 2 hours? I mean, other kids his age would be in whichever club, not like he'd be the only 10yo (or whatever the age may be) in there. Each kid will have peers and I am sure DCL has activities planned to accommodate the ages. My own kids have preferences on clubs, so while they might be disappointed that one club is closed the night I am in Palo, they'd still have fun in there for the 2 hours I'd be gone and when I came to check on them after dinner, they'd likely want to stay, even though it wasn't the club of their choice. My older one (will be 8yo on our cruise in March) prefers the club, and my 5yo prefers the lab. But they'd still find friends their age in either side (if one side was closed) and have a good time in my absence.

It's nearly impossible to respond to you point by point as you have done because the original quotes don't show up when I quote you, but one clarification that I would like to make is this - it is completely incorrect and untrue that children ages 3-10 have ALWAYS been allowed to move freely between the Club and the Lab. The Club was originally built and used a space for children aged 3-6, and the Lab was for 7-10. This is information that is readily available and that has already been confirmed. The system was changed in 2009 (and YES, there were probably "exceptions" made prior to that because we all have seen how prevalent those are on DCL) to accommodate requests from families with multiple children of varying ages to stay together. This is not my opinion. It is a fact. Hence, neither space was built for both age groups. To say that is like saying that Edge and Vibe can accommodate all the children aged 10-18 and that is simply untrue.

I guess you didn't read my post carefully as I specified this was the case for the past 2 years. Yes, there were exceptions prior to that (I know my 8yo niece stayed with my 4yo daughter and 4yo nephew in the club in 2008), but I was just talking about the past 2 years specifically.

It is also untrue that the ONLY time a child is moved from one space to the other is because they request it or because one space has closed for the evening. They WILL move a child for an age-appropriate activity or to even out the child to counselor ratio, even if that child doesn't request the change. Implying otherwise to first-timers is unwise and may create an issue for CM's when confused parents demand to know why their child was moved.

This has never happened to any of my kids, my nieces/nephews, or friends kids on any of our DCL cruises under the newer system (meaning since they have allowed all ages to mingle, so past 2 years). Never once. We asked them every single time we picked them up if they asked to switch clubs or if they were arbitrarily moved. Every time they said they asked to switch. We also asked the CMs when that policy first started and they assured us that kids are only moved if they ask to move. Exceptions being like I mentioned in my earlier post, when they close down one club for the night or when they do boy/girl chill. But those weren't moving by ages, one was by gender and the other was anyone remaining in the club.

Now, what I have seen them do was move counselors to the other club if they needed more supervision on one side. That has happened several times that I saw, and is also what they told us they would do if there was an imbalance in the number of kids on each side.

What you're suggesting is that they have moved kids against their will, causing unhappy kids, sort of like what people are complaining about now. Yet, I have never seen a post here complaining of that, nor, like I said, experienced it myself. I just imagine that would have lead to a ton of kids paging their parents to complain that they were moved to the other side. And then parents would say "Why did you move *MY* child and not some other kid?!?!"

Did this ever happen to you? If so, how did it play out? Cause that's something that would send me to guest services or to meet with the director of kids programming to find out why that happened, since they have stated to me that it would not. Plus I would want to know how they choose the kids to move. I mean, what if an 8yo is participating in an activity in the Club and they say "Oh well, too crowded here, we're moving you!"? My own 8yo would be very upset and would page me, hence me being upset if I was doing something of my own.

And lastly, if you don't have a dog in this fight, why bother coming here to pinpoint our posts and contradict us (and suggest that someone cancel their dinner reservation so your friend can have it - that was a nice touch)? That response was lighthearted in reply to someone who said we should all boycott Palo. Cause that won't work. For everyone who does boycott, there will be people waiting in line for their space. Like my friend. I'm sincerely not trying to be rude, I just don't understand why someone would take the time to tell us that we are basically wrong and worried over nothing - if your kids are going to be happy no matter what. No one said DCL was trying to "ruin anyone's cruise." Of course our children are going to "survive" if they don't get their first choice of location. That doesn't change the fact that DCL has made a significant change to children's programming that has some of us concerned and that we'd like to address - as is our right.

I am commenting here to try to calm down the hysteria that is building over what might not be anything at all. The people who have done it aren't claiming it is as bad as people here are imagining it to be. That is why I "wasted my time", to try to help people calm down and not start cancelling vacations or thinking it will be the trip from hell. Plus, I have 3 kids, so I very much do have a dog in this fight, so to speak. While I likely won't use the open houses with my older kids, cause I'd have to pay for nursery time, I might use them for my 2yo. She'd love playing in the Club during open house hours, so that part works out well for me. But the biggest thing I like about the new policy is that no adults are allowed to hang out in the club. I HATED that in the old system and am so, so glad they changed it.

I'm unsubscribing and done commenting on this thread, as I fear the posts may begin to tend toward intentionally inflammatory. Conservative Hippie - I will send you DCL's response via PM when I get one. I hope that no matter how things shake out, everyone has an awesome cruise! I'm sure the folks at Disney are doing everything they can to see to it that we all do.

I'm not sure why you think anything is intentionally inflammatory nor feel the need to unsubscribe, as nothing I have read, nor written, thus far is intentionally inflammatory. Well, I suppose one could read your 2nd to last paragraph that way, but I didn't as I couldn't care less about message board darts. But I will say phrases like "nice touch" aren't generally well-regarded unless they are sincere.

 

[jetskigrl]

Would your child truly be miserable for just 2 hours? I mean, other kids his age would be in whichever club, not like he'd be the only 10yo (or whatever the age may be) in there. Each kid will have peers and I am sure DCL has activities planned to accommodate the ages. My own kids have preferences on clubs, so while they might be disappointed that one club is closed the night I am in Palo, they'd still have fun in there for the 2 hours I'd be gone and when I came to check on them after dinner, they'd likely want to stay, even though it wasn't the club of their choice. My older one (will be 8yo on our cruise in March) prefers the club, and my 5yo prefers the lab. But they'd still find friends their age in either side (if one side was closed) and have a good time in my absence.

Yes, unfortunatly he would be miserable in the Club for 2 hours. But I'm referring to the Wonder for that (which is the ship we are about to go on). That last time we were on that ship, we went to the Club first because we didn't know where to go yet. He walked in and looked around and said he wanted to leave. He said he was embarrased to be there because it was for babies. OK, we know it isn't for babies but it is themed for younger kids. In his mind, this would be like taking him and dropping him off in a preschool for 2 hours. And that isn't a complaint about the Club, because it is designed for that younger age group. It is that it is simply not a place that my 8 (almost 9) year old DS wants to spend time (and it was Open House when we were in there so he did see kids of all ages).

My DS generally doesn't hang out with other kids as much as he enjoys playing on the computers, the simulators, the Wii games, etc. So on the Wonder, this affects him more because of the smaller number of those things. You put twice as many kids in there, the wait for an open simulator/computer is even longer.

I'm not opposed to the concept of the Open Houses at all. Shoot, maybe I could get him to try the organized activities (like making Flubber) if me or DH are there. I just don't like how they are handling it on the Wonder, with the extended evening hours and varying days/time (that we won't know about until the night before). I don't think they should be held in the evenings when the Adult venues are taking place and the lab/club are generally more populated.

 

[andersonfamily]

Oh I agree, if that is the case, totally complain. I would too. I'm just saying, before we all start ranting and raving, maybe try it out first and see how it goes. Maybe it will all be fine and the complaints would be baseless. We just don't know yet, each of us, till we try it.

That's just it though - if you go all the time, then you can try it, not like it, complain and keep seeing how it goes. Our upcoming vacation is kind of once in a lifetime for us, and I think I should be given what was advertised and what I paid for. I think my 3 year old should have secured care in the kids club that disney pumped us up for during the times that I have booked adult only time. It's the change without communication that is so distressing. If we go and everything is messed up, I can't go back and fix that another time. So I don't think there's anything wrong with asking other people what's happened recently, then complaining loudly to DCL when we see the problems those unannounced changes will bring for us.

 

[LadyOfNawlins]

Would your child truly be miserable for just 2 hours? I mean, other kids his age would be in whichever club, not like he'd be the only 10yo (or whatever the age may be) in there. Each kid will have peers and I am sure DCL has activities planned to accommodate the ages.

Yes, my kids would be miserable (and I haven't seen any navigators that have only shown 2 hours for open house). Not because they were in a different section than their preferred one but because of how many children would be crammed in together. On our cruise last March, my oldest DD was unhappy at the pool on sea day b/c it was so busy. She told me and asked to go to the Lab where it was less crowded. She was much happier, and my husband and I had some relaxing time by the adult pool.

I can't figure out how to multi-quote, but you also talked about in a previous post about how happy your children are and would never "revolt" but if they did you would make them skip out on an activity of their choosing as well. So the next day they better not ask you to hang at the pool for hours, or watch a movie, or whatever it is and expect you to bend over backwards to do it.

My children are also very happy children and will "make do" if need be for me as well. I agree that family is about compromise. However, I don't think any of us on our cruise should have to put up with being miserable for any amount of time. One person being miserable is not a compromise! Isn't that why we chose a Disney cruise? The big selling point for us was that we could choose to be together doing family activities or we could choose to do things as "kids" and "adults". That choice is now being taken away IMHO.

The Oceaneer's Club/Lab is a KIDS CLUB! It is meant to be for kids to play with other kids. It was never advertised as a family play area. That is my problem with the whole thing. There are places on the ship designated for certain things...adult areas, kids areas, family areas.

 

[cnj]

I, too, have written my complaints about the new open house times to Disney. I received the generic letter back.

Here's the deal, if you go back to page 1 of this thread, there are all ready people who have experienced this new policy and did not like it. Why should I have to wait and see if they will improve the situation by the time I cruise in 2 months before I say something? I am letting them know ahead of time that this new open house time is not what I feel I was advertised (and have experienced from the kids clubs in the past) when I booked the cruise we are taking.

I am fortunate that I have a 12 year old who could watch her brother in our room, if need be, but I do feel for those of you with younger children who would depend on the club and lab, as separate entitities, for child care.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

That's just it though - if you go all the time, then you can try it, not like it, complain and keep seeing how it goes. Our upcoming vacation is kind of once in a lifetime for us, and I think I should be given what was advertised and what I paid for. I think my 3 year old should have secured care in the kids club that disney pumped us up for during the times that I have booked adult only time. It's the change without communication that is so distressing. If we go and everything is messed up, I can't go back and fix that another time. So I don't think there's anything wrong with asking other people what's happened recently, then complaining loudly to DCL when we see the problems those unannounced changes will bring for us.

This is a very good point that would have addressed in my email if I hadn't already sent it. Tons of families are arriving on the ship and finding out about these changes on the first day. If not for the Dis, most of us would have found out on the first day, too.

 

[NWmom]

I have read all the pages of this thread and see both sides of the issue. I am a POSN (parent of special needs- though now grown- just our "norm" is still at home), have taught preschool and public school, have homeschooled, like times with my kids and just with my dh. Enjoys the spa and Palos etc.

The only thing I would miss with the club changes from our last cruise-- dd9 was so excited to show us what she had been doing in the clubs. I would still love the ability to have her show us through the clubs nearer to the end of the cruise as well.

So after thinking through all the options, all the reasons for and against, the pros and cons. These are my thoughts.

My reasoning

I think 4 hour daily Open Houses are a bit much every day. There is also a need for set days there are no open houses in the afternoons. On those days they could open early instead for Open House.

There is also a need for some of the fun activities to be available for those that might need assistance. Some special needs kids have to have a set morning routine as it sets the tone for the whole day. So afternoon Open Houses are much better for them.

Disney does usually offer things like baking and flubber more than once on a 7 day. I know they had the opportunituy to bake cookies at least 4 times on our 7 day.

My suggestion
What I am suggesting is a set schedule for 7 day or longer cruises. It could always be the same. Everyone could know it in advance and plan around it.

There is a need for some time for those that need a bit more time to acclimate children in the clubs. I suggest a drop off policy with a certain area of the club that parents are restricted to near the check in area in full view of everyone.
Parents can't step over into other areas when it is not Open House, but can allow their child those few moments to watch and join in that they need. Moving the check in desk fence might accomplish this.

Open Houses
Day 1-Embarkation day open house is absolutely crazy. Sensory overload. Late nights or early mornings to get to the ship. Very excited kids. The shy and timid ones could use a bit more time with less first day enthusiasm.

After attending the Open House and being excited that first night, my dd9 did not want to go back and she is very outgoing. We had her try it the next day when it was quieter and she loved it. She can't be the only one that needs a more gentler introduction

Day 2- I suggest there is a second regular Open House that starts after lunch( 3 hours) that ends at least an hour before the earliest dinner booking at Palo. This could help with those hesitant to leave parents the first day or that that missed it in all the excitement of newness. That gives the CM's time to clear the Open House and have it fully operational at full capacity for dinner times, etc.

Day 3- open the club a few hours earlier than it normally does for an Open House.

Day 4- A 3 hour Open House after lunch. same times as day 2 except that this time it is only opening half of the clubs- say The Open House is in the OC
Mornings can be hectic and regular starts to the day are more helpful for special needs kids. They need routine. That's why I suggest after lunch.
Also many kids might be in the pools so the clubs might be less crowded at this time.

Day 5-Open a few hours early same as day 3 Both Open House versus completely closed

Day 6- After lunch repeat of Day 4 only open the other club this time- say the Open House is in the OL

Day 7- Open early same as day 3 and 5 Both Open House versus completely closed

Day 8- Disembark

A set schedule could also be made for other length cruises.

7 day cruises have different itineraries so that is where it gets tricky. At sea day or port day. Having the set schedule lets a parents know what to expect for all cruises and they can then adjust by which cruise they book and what they plan and still take advantage of booking activities online at their advance booking windows.

To me, it seems a better solution than what Disney is currently doing. It solves a current problem.

Has a set schedule:
Days 2,4,6 in the afternoons for three hours
At most there would be 2 times (total of 6 hours) where a child's favorite club would not be available. This seems very reasonable to work around. More importantly there would only be 6 hours of what was open in the past, that the two clubs might be combined. That would not be too hard to avoid in planning around. I could handle that inconvenience knowing it would allow a child that might not otherwise be able to, to experience the clubs.

Days 3 and 5 in the mornings. (This is an extra offering over what Disney did in the past)

Allows a daily option totalling 15 hours of Open Houses with (hopefully) the least amount of inconvenience.

Allows for children to share their excitement with parents and allows special needs children to use the clubs without standing out as "different" whenever possible.

Could everyone live with this option as a compromise?

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

This is a very good point that would have addressed in my email if I hadn't already sent it. Tons of families are arriving on the ship and finding out about these changes on the first day. If not for the Dis, most of us would have found out on the first day, too.

Lots of people paid for a cruise and are now getting thrown a curve ball, be it people who for one reason or another wanted their child in a different club, a parent wanting a space to take their toddler to play, a parent or caregiver who felt they needed to be with their child (for whatever reason- be it a small and shy 3 year old or a child with special needs), an 18 year old still in high school, a kid who prefers one club over the other. The list is endless...and in the end...no one is going to get exactly what they want.

But the major concerns on both sides of the spectrum such as a special needs kid not being accommodated or a child not having a spot in secured programing have not been an reported issue.

There really hasn't been a NEED to cancel Palo or a spa day, people may have because they relented when their child didn't want to go to the club that had secured programing or maybe they didn't feel that was the right environment for them...but they made the CHOICE. They didn't HAVE to.

There is no guarantee a kid is going to take a liking to the club or want to go- and this can change from day to day or cruise to cruise. So adults making plans based on on board child care have always been pretty much tentative (yes there are people who may have sailed 48858 times and their kids have ALWAYS loved the club-but if a kid is miserable because they might not be in the area of their choice (even though the programing is still be offered) just proves my point that kids can be fickle.


There have always been threads about people finding the clubs too busy and chaotic and there probably always will be.

There have always been threads about some parents feeling that there were other kids in the club not following rules or being too aggressive and there probably always will be.

When they first started to implementing the new port arrival times, there were tons of threads asking about it, confused about it and complaining about it...but for the most part it worked out in the end.


While it's understandable to email DCL to ask for clarity or express concerns, there is a lot more to be said for having the experience and taking it from there.

I'm sure the people on board who are responsible for child/youth programing are making their own observations in efforts to improve the execution.

I also allowed myself to get worked up to the point I was dreading this trip, meanwhile my kids were completely oblivious to my trepidations and still looking forward to their trip on the "mickey boat".

That's when I realized that I didn't want my foreshadowing being what was going to ruin this trip. It's better to roll with the punches and in the event some of my real concerns are actualized, I will take it from there.

 

[slg]

We cruised after the policy change and I didn't know anything about it until I came home and read about it on the disboards. Then I looked at my navigator and asked my child what happened. He said it felt very crowded when they came over to the lab, but it wasn't too bad when they went to the club it wasn't so bad. He is 10 years old and spent all of his free time in the clubs.

I would take a deep breath, not say a word to your kids, and see how it goes. I'm glad I didn't know about it because I would have worried and been upset, and like I said, I didn't even notice.

We were on a Dec. 18 Dream cruise and it was a sold out cruise with tons of kids because school was already out.

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Thank you, I hope your posts puts some peoples minds to ease.

We cruised after the policy change and I didn't know anything about it until I came home and read about it on the disboards. Then I looked at my navigator and asked my child what happened. He said it felt very crowded when they came over to the lab, but it wasn't too bad when they went to the club it wasn't so bad. He is 10 years old and spent all of his free time in the clubs.

I would take a deep breath, not say a word to your kids, and see how it goes. I'm glad I didn't know about it because I would have worried and been upset, and like I said, I didn't even notice.

We were on a Dec. 18 Dream cruise and it was a sold out cruise with tons of kids because school was already out.

 

[asimaaliyah]

I e-mailed Disney about my concerns. Within 20 minutes, I got the following reply. With the speedy reply, I think they must be getting lots of feedback on this new change. Hopefully, it will make them re-think the new policy.

Thank you for contacting us regarding your upcoming sailing.

On behalf of the entire Disney Cruise Line team, I hope you will accept
my sincere regret for any disappointment with your upcoming cruise
vacation. I was truly disheartened to read about your concerns with the
"Open House" experiences in our Youth Activities areas.

We strive to meet the needs of all of our guests and have added several
open times where families can interact together in new ways, while still
providing a space for secured activities to occur continuously
throughout the day. As hours for "Open House" opportunities can change,
we would recommend reviewing your Personal Navigator once onboard.

However, I appreciate your constructive comments and have been certain
to share them with the appropriate shipboard and shoreside managers.
Your comments will be evaluated along with those from our other guests
to determine where future changes may be needed.

Thank you again for contacting us. We look forward to welcoming you and
your family onboard soon.

Sincerely,
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Executive Guest Correspondent
Disney Cruise

Wow that is the exact same response I got to my email. Do they now have a generic email response that they are sending to people?

 

[SoCaOC-Mom]

Thank you for taking the time to post a thoughtful reply with IDEAS and potential solutions that try to address the needs and concerns of a lot of different people, some with very different needs and expectations.

I agree that there needs to be a little give on all accounts.

I have read all the pages of this thread and see both sides of the issue. I am a POSN (parent of special needs- though now grown- just our "norm" is still at home), have taught preschool and public school, have homeschooled, like times with my kids and just with my dh. Enjoys the spa and Palos etc.


Could everyone live with this option as a compromise?

 

[tinytinkmom]

I e-mailed Disney, as our youngest will be a newly minted 3 on her next cruise, and I'm concerned about how she'll do if the secured area is the lab... I think she's going to LOVE the club, but the lab is really geared towards the older set. Here's the response I got (seems to be their standard form letter!):

"Thank you for contacting us regarding your upcoming sailing.

On behalf of the entire Disney Cruise Line team, I hope you will accept
my sincere regret for any disappointment with your upcoming cruise
vacation. I was truly disheartened to read about your concerns with the
'Open House' experiences in our Youth Activities areas.

We strive to meet the needs of all of our Guests and have added several
open times where families can interact together in new ways, while still
providing a space for secured activities to occur continuously
throughout the day. As hours for 'Open House' opportunities can change,
we would recommend reviewing your Personal Navigator once onboard.

However, I appreciate your constructive comments and have been certain
to share them with the appropriate shipboard and shoreside managers.
Your comments will be evaluated along with those from our other Guests
to determine where future changes may be needed.

Thank you again for contacting us. We look forward to welcoming you and
your family onboard soon.

Sincerely,

*****
Reservations Department
Disney Cruise Line"

 

[MikellaCinderella]

I have read all the pages of this thread and see both sides of the issue. I am a POSN (parent of special needs- though now grown- just our "norm" is still at home), have taught preschool and public school, have homeschooled, like times with my kids and just with my dh. Enjoys the spa and Palos etc.

The only thing I would miss with the club changes from our last cruise-- dd9 was so excited to show us what she had been doing in the clubs. I would still love the ability to have her show us through the clubs nearer to the end of the cruise as well.

So after thinking through all the options, all the reasons for and against, the pros and cons. These are my thoughts.

My reasoning

I think 4 hour daily Open Houses are a bit much every day. There is also a need for set days there are no open houses in the afternoons. On those days they could open early instead for Open House.

There is also a need for some of the fun activities to be available for those that might need assistance. Some special needs kids have to have a set morning routine as it sets the tone for the whole day. So afternoon Open Houses are much better for them.

Disney does usually offer things like baking and flubber more than once on a 7 day. I know they had the opportunituy to bake cookies at least 4 times on our 7 day.

My suggestion
What I am suggesting is a set schedule for 7 day or longer cruises. It could always be the same. Everyone could know it in advance and plan around it.

There is a need for some time for those that need a bit more time to acclimate children in the clubs. I suggest a drop off policy with a certain area of the club that parents are restricted to near the check in area in full view of everyone.
Parents can't step over into other areas when it is not Open House, but can allow their child those few moments to watch and join in that they need. Moving the check in desk fence might accomplish this.

Open Houses
Day 1-Embarkation day open house is absolutely crazy. Sensory overload. Late nights or early mornings to get to the ship. Very excited kids. The shy and timid ones could use a bit more time with less first day enthusiasm.

After attending the Open House and being excited that first night, my dd9 did not want to go back and she is very outgoing. We had her try it the next day when it was quieter and she loved it. She can't be the only one that needs a more gentler introduction

Day 2- I suggest there is a second regular Open House that starts after lunch( 3 hours) that ends at least an hour before the earliest dinner booking at Palo. This could help with those hesitant to leave parents the first day or that that missed it in all the excitement of newness. That gives the CM's time to clear the Open House and have it fully operational at full capacity for dinner times, etc.

Day 3- open the club a few hours earlier than it normally does for an Open House.

Day 4- A 3 hour Open House after lunch. same times as day 2 except that this time it is only opening half of the clubs- say The Open House is in the OC
Mornings can be hectic and regular starts to the day are more helpful for special needs kids. They need routine. That's why I suggest after lunch.
Also many kids might be in the pools so the clubs might be less crowded at this time.

Day 5-Open a few hours early same as day 3 Both Open House versus completely closed

Day 6- After lunch repeat of Day 4 only open the other club this time- say the Open House is in the OL

Day 7- Open early same as day 3 and 5 Both Open House versus completely closed

Day 8- Disembark

A set schedule could also be made for other length cruises.

7 day cruises have different itineraries so that is where it gets tricky. At sea day or port day. Having the set schedule lets a parents know what to expect for all cruises and they can then adjust by which cruise they book and what they plan and still take advantage of booking activities online at their advance booking windows.

To me, it seems a better solution than what Disney is currently doing. It solves a current problem.

Has a set schedule:
Days 2,4,6 in the afternoons for three hours
At most there would be 2 times (total of 6 hours) where a child's favorite club would not be available. This seems very reasonable to work around. More importantly there would only be 6 hours of what was open in the past, that the two clubs might be combined. That would not be too hard to avoid in planning around. I could handle that inconvenience knowing it would allow a child that might not otherwise be able to, to experience the clubs.

Days 3 and 5 in the mornings. (This is an extra offering over what Disney did in the past)

Allows a daily option totalling 15 hours of Open Houses with (hopefully) the least amount of inconvenience.

Allows for children to share their excitement with parents and allows special needs children to use the clubs without standing out as "different" whenever possible.

Could everyone live with this option as a compromise?

Wow, you really did some work on this! Sounds like a good compromise to me!

 

[True Romance]

I am actually sick reading the Navigators from the 12/11 MR Wonder cruise.

(day 2)open house in the club is from 4:30-10:00pm-5 1/2 hours
(day 3)open house in the lab is from 2-6:30pm--4 1/2 hours
(day 4)open house in club-7:30-11:30am the lab from 1-4pm--total 6 hours
(day 5) open house in lab-8:30-10:30, club-4:30-6:30 and 8:30-10:30pm-total 6 hours
No navigator for day 6 yet

5-6 hours of open houses every day, really?? Even during peak after dinner times? I am sailing in a month, and I am afraid nothing will be changed by then. I really hope all the letters we are sending are actually getting to management.

I am looking at the activity, Nemo's Coral Reef Adventure at 7:15pm in the Club, of course during an Open House. That would be great for my 3 year old to enjoy after our show and before our dinner--so I can enjoy a lounge. Now I am stressing wondering if my 9 year old could stay in there with him or we have to both skip the activities I would have planned.

 

[justhat]

Yes, unfortunatly he would be miserable in the Club for 2 hours. But I'm referring to the Wonder for that (which is the ship we are about to go on). That last time we were on that ship, we went to the Club first because we didn't know where to go yet. He walked in and looked around and said he wanted to leave. He said he was embarrased to be there because it was for babies. OK, we know it isn't for babies but it is themed for younger kids. In his mind, this would be like taking him and dropping him off in a preschool for 2 hours. And that isn't a complaint about the Club, because it is designed for that younger age group. It is that it is simply not a place that my 8 (almost 9) year old DS wants to spend time (and it was Open House when we were in there so he did see kids of all ages).

My DS generally doesn't hang out with other kids as much as he enjoys playing on the computers, the simulators, the Wii games, etc. So on the Wonder, this affects him more because of the smaller number of those things. You put twice as many kids in there, the wait for an open simulator/computer is even longer.

I'm not opposed to the concept of the Open Houses at all. Shoot, maybe I could get him to try the organized activities (like making Flubber) if me or DH are there. I just don't like how they are handling it on the Wonder, with the extended evening hours and varying days/time (that we won't know about until the night before). I don't think they should be held in the evenings when the Adult venues are taking place and the lab/club are generally more populated.

We most recently sailed on the Wonder, the cruise with the incident in fact. There are fewer computers in the club, and fewer game systems, but they are there so maybe you could assure your son he still has a chance to play. We haven't been on the Dream yet, but are doing the 3/31 Fantasy so I guess I'll see their club then.

But my thinking on it is this. Most people only go to Palo one night of the cruise, so that's only one night that might potentially be affected. The other nights your kid (meaning general your) can go to the club of their choice or hang with mom and dad. The open house hours aren't every night, correct? I read the hours a few days ago and not since so I could be wrong, but I thought it was only 1 or 2 nights.

That's just it though - if you go all the time, then you can try it, not like it, complain and keep seeing how it goes. Our upcoming vacation is kind of once in a lifetime for us, and I think I should be given what was advertised and what I paid for. I think my 3 year old should have secured care in the kids club that disney pumped us up for during the times that I have booked adult only time. It's the change without communication that is so distressing. If we go and everything is messed up, I can't go back and fix that another time. So I don't think there's anything wrong with asking other people what's happened recently, then complaining loudly to DCL when we see the problems those unannounced changes will bring for us.

Yes, entirely true. You can't go back and change it. But you effectively are being given what you paid for and what is advertised. On the Wonder in October, many days the Club or Lab was the only club open until noon. So if you had an early morning spa appt, or wanted to go to the gym, or whatever it was you wanted to do, there was only 1 club available to drop your kid off in. And then at night there was often only one club open after 9:30pm as well. Many kids are asleep then, all of mine are, but my friend's kids never are, even her former 3yo, so it does affect a decent amount of kids.

Yes, my kids would be miserable (and I haven't seen any navigators that have only shown 2 hours for open house). Not because they were in a different section than their preferred one but because of how many children would be crammed in together. On our cruise last March, my oldest DD was unhappy at the pool on sea day b/c it was so busy. She told me and asked to go to the Lab where it was less crowded. She was much happier, and my husband and I had some relaxing time by the adult pool.

The 2 hours refers to a poster saying she would have to cancel Palo, which takes roughly 2 hours. I get the crowding, my oldest hated crowds when she was younger. But we don't know how crowded it would be or if your kid would even be there at a swamped time so that's why I am not stressing over it yet.

I can't figure out how to multi-quote, but you also talked about in a previous post about how happy your children are and would never "revolt" but if they did you would make them skip out on an activity of their choosing as well. So the next day they better not ask you to hang at the pool for hours, or watch a movie, or whatever it is and expect you to bend over backwards to do it.

My children are also very happy children and will "make do" if need be for me as well. I agree that family is about compromise. However, I don't think any of us on our cruise should have to put up with being miserable for any amount of time. One person being miserable is not a compromise! Isn't that why we chose a Disney cruise? The big selling point for us was that we could choose to be together doing family activities or we could choose to do things as "kids" and "adults". That choice is now being taken away IMHO.

You are correct, no one should be miserable on vacation. But, even on vacation, sometimes things aren't perfect. I don't see that choice as being taken away. If my kids really flipped out over going to the club/lab that they didn't prefer, that's fine, I'll skip my Palo/Remy/spa/gym time and take them to the room, pool, whatever. But just like at home, I will do so with the understanding that they may need to miss part of their activity of choice on another day if I don't want to do it. Same thing at home: My son hates eating out 99% of the time. So when he flips out over it, that is fine, he can choose for all of us to stay at home, but then the trip to the zoo that he wanted may not happen. They need to learn compromise, sometimes they do something they don't want to, sometimes I do something I don't want to, and we balance it out. So 2 hours while I eat at Palo or an hour while I get my daily run in won't make them miserable. Annoyed? Yes. Unhappy? Yes. But vacation is wrecked kind of miserable? No.

But that's even if they would be upset, which we don't know. The club might not even be crowded when your kid goes so it might not even be an issue. Or the activity might be one they enjoy, or whatever. They might actually enjoy the 2 hours.

The Oceaneer's Club/Lab is a KIDS CLUB! It is meant to be for kids to play with other kids. It was never advertised as a family play area. That is my problem with the whole thing. There are places on the ship designated for certain things...adult areas, kids areas, family areas.

I completely, totally agree with that last paragraph. I wish they had never let parents in. And if they got rid of open houses I wouldn't particularly care, though I am sure my toddler will appreciate it. We sailed on RCCL and they had a special toddler play room, where you had to stay with your kids, and DCL lacks that. So for toddler parents, or parents of shy kids who won't do the kids clubs, or kids like my SIL's who just refused to go to the clubs at all on the cruise they did with us (and for no reason, as they aren't shy and had my oldest with them, and she went to the club without issue and was younger). For those people, the open houses rock!

This is a very good point that would have addressed in my email if I hadn't already sent it. Tons of families are arriving on the ship and finding out about these changes on the first day. If not for the Dis, most of us would have found out on the first day, too.

Many of those people will have no idea anything was ever different so they will likely not have complaints.

I have read all the pages of this thread and see both sides of the issue. I am a POSN (parent of special needs- though now grown- just our "norm" is still at home), have taught preschool and public school, have homeschooled, like times with my kids and just with my dh. Enjoys the spa and Palos etc.

Could everyone live with this option as a compromise?

I condensed that, but I like the ideas. I think the only problem I can see with it would be that everyone with kids would be vying for spa/palo/whatever time at the same time. So meaning, not only would those be near impossible to book for non-platinum/concierge guests, but the nursery for those times would likely get crazy too because of siblings. But maybe they could work around that somehow. I think overall it's an excellent plan.

Lots of people paid for a cruise and are now getting thrown a curve ball, be it people who for one reason or another wanted their child in a different club, a parent wanting a space to take their toddler to play, a parent or caregiver who felt they needed to be with their child (for whatever reason- be it a small and shy 3 year old or a child with special needs), an 18 year old still in high school, a kid who prefers one club over the other. The list is endless...and in the end...no one is going to get exactly what they want.

But the major concerns on both sides of the spectrum such as a special needs kid not being accommodated or a child not having a spot in secured programing have not been an reported issue.

There really hasn't been a NEED to cancel Palo or a spa day, people may have because they relented when their child didn't want to go to the club that had secured programing or maybe they didn't feel that was the right environment for them...but they made the CHOICE. They didn't HAVE to.

There is no guarantee a kid is going to take a liking to the club or want to go- and this can change from day to day or cruise to cruise. So adults making plans based on on board child care have always been pretty much tentative (yes there are people who may have sailed 48858 times and their kids have ALWAYS loved the club-but if a kid is miserable because they might not be in the area of their choice (even though the programing is still be offered) just proves my point that kids can be fickle.


There have always been threads about people finding the clubs too busy and chaotic and there probably always will be.

There have always been threads about some parents feeling that there were other kids in the club not following rules or being too aggressive and there probably always will be.

When they first started to implementing the new port arrival times, there were tons of threads asking about it, confused about it and complaining about it...but for the most part it worked out in the end.


While it's understandable to email DCL to ask for clarity or express concerns, there is a lot more to be said for having the experience and taking it from there.

I'm sure the people on board who are responsible for child/youth programing are making their own observations in efforts to improve the execution.

I also allowed myself to get worked up to the point I was dreading this trip, meanwhile my kids were completely oblivious to my trepidations and still looking forward to their trip on the "mickey boat".

That's when I realized that I didn't want my foreshadowing being what was going to ruin this trip. It's better to roll with the punches and in the event some of my real concerns are actualized, I will take it from there.

That is exactly my thinking.

We cruised after the policy change and I didn't know anything about it until I came home and read about it on the disboards. Then I looked at my navigator and asked my child what happened. He said it felt very crowded when they came over to the lab, but it wasn't too bad when they went to the club it wasn't so bad. He is 10 years old and spent all of his free time in the clubs.

I would take a deep breath, not say a word to your kids, and see how it goes. I'm glad I didn't know about it because I would have worried and been upset, and like I said, I didn't even notice.

We were on a Dec. 18 Dream cruise and it was a sold out cruise with tons of kids because school was already out.

I am guessing that you are in the majority. I bet most cruisers have no idea whatsoever and most kids are going to see it like your son. And that's really my only point, that it likely isn't something to get super worked up over cause it will more than likely be fine.

 

[justhat]

I am actually sick reading the Navigators from the 12/11 MR Wonder cruise.

(day 2)open house in the club is from 4:30-10:00pm-5 1/2 hours
(day 3)open house in the lab is from 2-6:30pm--4 1/2 hours
(day 4)open house in club-7:30-11:30am the lab from 1-4pm--total 6 hours
(day 5) open house in lab-8:30-10:30, club-4:30-6:30 and 8:30-10:30pm-total 6 hours
No navigator for day 6 yet

5-6 hours of open houses every day, really?? Even during peak after dinner times? I am sailing in a month, and I am afraid nothing will be changed by then. I really hope all the letters we are sending are actually getting to management.

I am looking at the activity, Nemo's Coral Reef Adventure at 7:15pm in the Club, of course during an Open House. That would be great for my 3 year old to enjoy after our show and before our dinner--so I can enjoy a lounge. Now I am stressing wondering if my 9 year old could stay in there with him or we have to both skip the activities I would have planned.

While I agree they seem excessive, is there no age appropriate activity in the lab during the time the club is closed?

 

[True Romance]

While I agree they seem excessive, is there no age appropriate activity in the lab during the time the club is closed?

I don't count Animation Cells, and Wii Competition as age appropriate for a 3 year old. But there is a lot of Hanging in the Lab, and Chillin' in the Lab--which I guess means do whatever you want and let the 3 year olds fend for themselves. The other activities in the Lab are Around the World in 7 days, Tower Building, Disney Trivia, and Guess Who. These are all during the times the club has open house, again nothing sounds appropriate for the 3 year old.

 

[justhat]

Tower building, wouldn't that be like blocks? That one would work. I know during all the "chillin' in the lab" things on our last cruise, they did crafts and coloring. Not the most exciting, but certainly a 3yo could do it. And they always had toys around. My son (who is 5yo) isn't really into the little kid planned stuff (like Nemo or whatever), he prefers the science stuff in the lab, but we'd often find him just building with blocks, legos, whatever. So I know they always have that available.


ETA: Not ideal, I know that and I wanted to add that. My daughter would rather die than build with Legos, now or as a 3yo. She would have been all over Nemo. But I mentioned it cause your 3yo is a boy so he'll likely be okay.

 

[NWmom]

I don't count Animation Cells, and Wii Competition as age appropriate for a 3 year old. But there is a lot of Hanging in the Lab, and Chillin' in the Lab--which I guess means do whatever you want and let the 3 year olds fend for themselves. The other activities in the Lab are Around the World in 7 days, Tower Building, Disney Trivia, and Guess Who. These are all during the times the club has open house, again nothing sounds appropriate for the 3 year old.

I am thinking an email about reworking the activities to match the new open house and combined times would be in order as well.

They may already be working on that as well as all the changes happened suddenly.