Hamas sweeps to election victory

dcentity2000

<font color=red>Simba Cub<br><font color=green>Is
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
10,057
Islamic militant group Hamas has won a surprise victory in Wednesday's Palestinian parliamentary elections.

Preliminary results give Hamas 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, with the ruling Fatah party trailing on 43.

The win poses problems for efforts to restart peace talks with Israel, say analysts. Israel insists it will not deal with an authority including Hamas.
Source: BBC Newshttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4650788.stm

Hamas regards Israel as being an active, hostile occupier on their land and Israel basically considers the situation to be the same in reverse. Both are willing to use force to put their point across and both absolutely hate the other's guts.

Israel has pleaded with the EU not to offer any recognition to the Hamas Government ad the UK has already demanded a cessation of hostilities in the region, as have many other countries.

This situation generally sucks.



Rich::
 
It's a shame that these terrorists have been given positions of power. I don't know why is it suprising and there is no short supply of terrorists in the region.
 
This is a real concern to me. I can see hostility escalating in the region. Hamas' charter is the complete annihilation of Isreal and to not negotiate.
 
I'm really concerned as well. This is not a good sign for the region. But it does prove this - democracy does work. The people voted - and their opinions are duly noted.
 

Just a few points as noted on Question Time (a live political debate after the news in the UK):

  • Israel itself was set up on the back of terrorism
  • The UK has no moral right to refuse negotiations with a pre-peaceful Hamas as it had absolutely no problems negotiating with Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA long before violence was renounced
  • Even the USA was set up on the back of severe violence
  • We in the UK cannot judge attacks by entities on other entities as terrorist as we ourselves just participated in a project that has been deemed democratically to be absolutely illegal in itself (the attack on Iraq)


Rich::
 
gall.netanyahu.ap.jpg


Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli opposition leader

"Today, Hamastan was formed."



(this quote was on cnn.com) :teeth:
.
 
By choosing Hamas, the Palestinians show they are more interested in continuing their terrorism against Israel instead of peace.

When will the Palestinians learn?? :sad2:
 
My DH and I were discussing this tonight: Hamas sends another suicide bomber into Israel, as the government of the Palestinians this would be considered an act of war, Israel then could declare war on the Palestinians. This is a terribly scary scenario; I hope Hamas recognizes the responsibility they have now assumed.

Sharon
 
I don't see any other option but to negotiate with Hamas. They were elected democratically and we're supposed to respect that process. We unfortunately can't pick and choose who other people elect.
 
That's the problem with creating democracies in other countries. Sometimes they vote for people you don't like.

It's just something you have to live with and accept.
 
BillSears said:
That's the problem with creating democracies in other countries. Sometimes they vote for people you don't like.

It's just something you have to live with and accept.
ITA! After getting over the initial shock of the vote, it occurred to me that something quite extraordinary happened here. These people did the exact same thing that the Iraqi people have done twice now. America and most of the world loudly cheered what happened in Iraq. The reaction to this vote is concern. What gives?

I think that this will place a lot of pressure on Hamas because now they are in a position of major responsibility. They will have to govern and prove themselves. They will be forced to deal with other governments or be ostracized.

The Palestinian people exercised their right and instead of wringing our hands over the results, we should be cheering their efforts. In a region that is dominated by countries that do not allow elections or have elections that are rigged, this is a remarkable event.

It's a lesson America needs to learn: if you are going to export democracy throughout the world and expect it to be practiced, you'd better be prepared because sometimes you're not going to like the results. That's usually the case with nearly 1/2 the people in our country every 4 years.
 
dcentity2000 said:
Just a few points as noted on Question Time (a live political debate after the news in the UK):

  • Israel itself was set up on the back of terrorism
  • The UK has no moral right to refuse negotiations with a pre-peaceful Hamas as it had absolutely no problems negotiating with Sinn Fein, the political wing of the IRA long before violence was renounced
  • Even the USA was set up on the back of severe violence
  • We in the UK cannot judge attacks by entities on other entities as terrorist as we ourselves just participated in a project that has been deemed democratically to be absolutely illegal in itself (the attack on Iraq)


Rich::

I would have expected more skill in logic coming from the UK (on Question Time)
 
Tigger_Magic said:
ITA! After getting over the initial shock of the vote, it occurred to me that something quite extraordinary happened here. These people did the exact same thing that the Iraqi people have done twice now. America and most of the world loudly cheered what happened in Iraq. The reaction to this vote is concern. What gives?

I think that this will place a lot of pressure on Hamas because now they are in a position of major responsibility. They will have to govern and prove themselves. They will be forced to deal with other governments or be ostracized.

The Palestinian people exercised their right and instead of wringing our hands over the results, we should be cheering their efforts. In a region that is dominated by countries that do not allow elections or have elections that are rigged, this is a remarkable event.

It's a lesson America needs to learn: if you are going to export democracy throughout the world and expect it to be practiced, you'd better be prepared because sometimes you're not going to like the results. That's usually the case with nearly 1/2 the people in our country every 4 years.


Your last line says it all.
 
If the government formed by Hamas renounces terrorism then we must negotiate with them to be consistent. If they do not, and terrorism continues, then they have just created a terrorist state. Fighting terrorism by a duly constituted terrorist state at least has far less ambiguity to it.

Here's an interesting perspective on it, from an Oxford fellow:

January 26, 2006, 10:02 a.m.
Hamas Without Veils
No more hiding behind the PA.

By Emanuele Ottolenghi

Contrary to initial responses, Hamas’s projected victory in the Palestinian parliamentary elections is a positive development. Not, as its apologists claim, because the proximity of power will favor a process of cooptation into parliamentary politics, and therefore strengthen the pragmatic wing of Hamas. There is no pragmatic wing in Hamas, and all differences within the movement — the armed wing and the political wing, Palestine Hamas and Hamas in Syria — are arguably tactical differences. No, the reason is, as Vladimir Ilich Lenin would put it, "worse is better."

Hamas’s favored outcome was not victory, but a strong showing that would leave Hamas with the best of both worlds: It would remain in opposition (or would be invited to join a coalition as a junior partner) but would impose severe limitations on the Fatah-led government on how to manage its relations with Israel. Hamas could thus claim to reject Oslo, decline to recognize the Palestinian Authority and its commitments under the Oslo accords and the roadmap, and continue to use its rising political clout and its military strength to sabotage any effort to revive the moribund peace process.

What victory does to Hamas is to put the movement into an impossible position. As preliminary reports emerge, Hamas has already asked Fatah to form a coalition and got a negative response. Prime Minister Abu Ala has resigned with his cabinet, and president Abu Mazen will now appoint Hamas to form the next government. From the shadows of ambiguity, where Hamas could afford — thanks to the moral and intellectual hypocrisy of those in the Western world who dismissed its incendiary rhetoric as tactics — to have the cake and eat it too. Now, no more. Had they won 30-35 percent of the seats, they could have stayed out of power but put enormous limits on the Palestinian Authority’s room to maneuver. By winning, they have to govern, which means they have to tell the world, very soon, a number of things.

They will have to show their true face now: No more masks, no more veils, no more double-speak. If the cooptation theory — favored by the International Crisis Group and by the former British MI-6 turned talking head, Alistair Crooke — were true, this is the time for Hamas to show what hides behind its veil.

As the government of the Palestinian Authority, now they will have to say whether they accept the roadmap.

They will have to take control over security and decide whether they use it to uphold the roadmap or to wage war.

There will be no excuses or ambiguities when Hamas fires rockets on Israel and launches suicide attacks against civilian targets. Until Tuesday, the PA could hide behind the excuse that they were not directly responsible and they could not rein in the "militants." Now the "militants" are the militia of the ruling party. They are one and the same with the Palestinian Authority. If they bomb Israel from Gaza — not under occupation anymore, and is therefore, technically, part of the Palestinian state the PLO proclaimed in Algiers in 1988, but never bothered to take responsibility for — that is an act of war, which can be responded to in kind, under the full cover of the internationally recognized right of self-defense. No more excuses that the Palestinians live under occupation, that the PA is too weak to disarm Hamas, that violence is not the policy of the PA. Hamas and the PA will be the same: What Hamas does is what the PA will stand for.

Continuing to pursue a violent path will automatically switch off all international aid. Perhaps Hamas intends to offset the resulting loss of revenue by hosting Holocaust-denial conferences in Gaza and terrorist training camps in Rafah, but it will still have to explain to the Palestinian public why it’s better to renounce public aid to wage war.

Meanwhile, Hamas will have to confront the Egyptians (and the Jordanians) and tell them what the PA under Hamas now stands for. And Egypt and Jordan will have to change course, accordingly. Egypt has an increased military presence along the Gaza border and several officers in Gaza to help "stabilize" the security situation — which so far has meant keeping the flames low enough not to bother Egypt but high enough not to let Israel off the hook completely. What will Egypt do now? Cooperate with Hamas in Gaza while it dreads Hamas’ twin, the Muslim Brotherhood, at home? Will it act more decisively to stop the ever growing flow of illegal weapons being smuggled into Gaza from the Sinai, or turn a blind eye even as the increased militancy in Gaza might embolden the Brotherhood in Egypt? No more ambiguity for Egypt either.

The Arab world will also be watching wearily. Hamas now will have to show to the Arab world that an Islamic party that wins a democratic election — everyone’s nightmarish scenario — is not as bad as it seems. For now, the Palestinians have chosen an Islamic option over a secular one. Let them have it. Let them enjoy life under Sharia. It is their choice — that is what self-determination is about — and we must respect it. After all, the spectacle of an Arab government that is defeated in a fair and free election, and that as a consequence resigns (resigns!), has no precedent in the Arab world. This is good news. Let’s have some more and put Hamas to the test of democracy: this experience will tell us if Islamists can embark on a road that leads to the Turkish model or whether Palestine will become a Sunni Iran. If democracy succeeds under Hamas’s leadership, there is a legitimate government in power that enjoys support and popularity in Palestine and might be more honest and more competent than its predecessor — not a difficult task, given the ineptitude of Fatah. Otherwise, we can tell once and for all that co-optation is not the way to moderation, but a recipe is self-defeating appeasement.

Hamas hoped that a narrow Fatah victory would allow Hamas to enter government in junior positions while pursuing violence against Israel — much like Hezbollah in Lebanon. Their victory forces them to make a choice now, and the international community, while respecting the democratic verdict of a fundamentally fair electoral process, must hold them to account. The issue is not whether Europe, the U.S., or Israel should talk to Hamas. The issue is whether there is anything to talk about with Hamas, and the burden of proof is on Hamas to demonstrate they are capable of becoming interlocutors. If Hamas meets the true test, namely accepting the road map, renouncing violence, disarming its own terror network, recognizing Israel and embracing the two-state solution, then no obstacle should remain for a dialogue with Hamas. Otherwise, they can taste Israeli steel, courtesy of the U.S. and the full backing of the EU of Israel’s right to defend itself.

Don’t hold your breath though.

In commenting on this electoral upheaval, Jerusalem Post’s editor David Horovitz has written

Some may seek comfort in the belief that an ascent to government could prompt a greater sense of responsibility, a move to moderation. But Hamas's intolerance is based on a perceived religious imperative. No believing Muslim, in the Hamas conception, can be reconciled to Jewish sovereignty in the Middle East. To deny that, for Hamas, is blasphemy. And that is the ideology to which the Palestinian people, for whatever reason and by their own free hand, have just tied their fate. That is the guiding ideology with which Israel and the West will now have to grapple.

The appeasers and the apologists are already cuing up to argue that Hamas has already embarked on the road to realism. But unless Hamas reneges on its ideology and endorses a new course, then Israel’s claim that there is no Palestinian partner is vindicated. The resulting Israeli policy of unilateralism is vindicated. Israel’s argument that the Palestinians do not want peace is vindicated. Israel’s argument that Islamists’ nuances and differences of opinion are just tactical, not strategic, is also vindicated. And the prospects of a Palestinian state will become even more remote.

The uniform message that the world gives Hamas should thus be: Take off your veil, and expose your true face for the entire world to see in the naked and transparent light of democracy.

— Emanuele Ottolenghi teaches Israel studies at Oxford University.
 
Galahad:

I like your cut and paste. it has the ring of truth to me. However, I cannot see Isael being able to retaliate with the full blessing of the EU and US.
 
JoeEpcotRocks said:
By choosing Hamas, the Palestinians show they are more interested in continuing their terrorism against Israel instead of peace.

When will the Palestinians learn?? :sad2:

Why did they do that, do you think?

The Palestinian people are human beings just as we are - things must be pretty dire if they are resorting to violence.

Is suspect that they will "learn" when we start to "listen".



Rich::
 
dcentity2000 said:


How so?



Rich::

While it may be true that there were Zionist organizations which used terror in helping to establish Eretz Israel I think you would be hard pressed to find any of them which included in their founding documents the philosophy that all Arabs must be removed at all costs from the Palestinian terrritory.

Hamas has no intentions of negotiating with Israel. They don't want peace -- they simply want to kill the Jews.
 
dcentity2000 said:


Why did they do that, do you think?

The Palestinian people are human beings just as we are - things must be pretty dire if they are resorting to violence.

Is suspect that they will "learn" when we start to "listen".



Rich::

Please. We've been listening to them for a long, long time -- and we been actively involved in various peace processes. The US has been telling Israel to be patient for a long, long time. We would NOT be that patient with a neighboring country terrorizing us, that's for darn sure.

The Palestinians are their own worst enemies. I think Galahad's post (with the long articulate paste) says it best. Hamas can no longer hide as it's now the government. If they push Israel to war, they can kiss their backside goodbye.
 


Disney Vacation Planning. Free. Done for You.
Our Authorized Disney Vacation Planners are here to provide personalized, expert advice, answer every question, and uncover the best discounts. Let Dreams Unlimited Travel take care of all the details, so you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a stress-free vacation.
Start Your Disney Vacation
Disney EarMarked Producer






DIS Facebook DIS youtube DIS Instagram DIS Pinterest DIS Tiktok DIS Twitter

Add as a preferred source on Google

Back
Top Bottom