Haggard asks for forgiveness?

I don't know. I think the letter was fine (from what I read in Cardaway's link). I don't think he avoided the issue...more like he was being discreet. I mean coming right out and saying, "I paid a male prostitute for gay sex" in the middle of church would probably be a little uncomfortable for everyone involved....they said they dismissed the children, but good grief, they didn't dismiss the little old ladies! :rotfl:

Seriously though, it's good that he confessed, but I don't think forgiveness means giving him the opportunity to lead a church again. IMO, I think he should find another occupation. I felt the same way about Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.
 
I agree about the power and value of confession. I just don't think it's crucial for him to confess it to you or me. I trust that he is in the care of a very capable and loving pastor right now who is leading him through the beginning steps of just such a thing. Who knows? Maybe someday he will see fit to make public confession a part of his repentance.
 
I have been a member of this church for 15 years. Ted has been a remarkable leader. He has done so many good things for so many people. I understand why people are upset with him. My church is grieving right now please be understanding this has been so painful for the members of New Life. I wish you all knew the man. Just reading the reports and not knowing him I would be upset to but I do know this man and it is a loss for us.
 
toto2 said:
Who should he apologize to ? to His followers or to the gay and lesbians community he sent to hell while doing exactly what he was comdemning ?
:confused3

He should apologize to gays and lesbians for bad mouthing us. In his statement to his church, he implied that he has had same-sex feelings throughout his life. He is one of us.

I feel sorry for Haggard because he has been brainwashed and indoctrinated into a state of intense self-hatred. I hope that other gays and lesbians will take that into consideration as they reflect upon this case. This situation is a lot more complicated than an act of hypocrisy.
 

JoyG said:
but I don't think forgiveness means giving him the opportunity to lead a church again. IMO, I think he should find another occupation. I felt the same way about Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.


Oh goodness, no! I could hardly imagine a situation in which he should be leading a church again. I certainly agree with you on that. As you would likely agree, there are consequences fro our actions that means some doors are closed to us even if we experience the grace of forgiveness.
 
JoyG said:
I don't know. I think the letter was fine (from what I read in Cardaway's link). I don't think he avoided the issue...more like he was being discreet. I mean coming right out and saying, "I paid a male prostitute for gay sex" in the middle of church would probably be a little uncomfortable for everyone involved....they said they dismissed the children, but good grief, they didn't dismiss the little old ladies! :rotfl:

Seriously though, it's good that he confessed, but I don't think forgiveness means giving him the opportunity to lead a church again. IMO, I think he should find another occupation. I felt the same way about Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart.

He never admitted to gay sex. Just sexual immorality. He made no statement about the drugs in his confession. Then he goes on to say that all of the accusations against him are not true. Well, which ones? Without total disclosure you lead people to believe that the accuser is a liar.

He did avoid the issue and the totality of the charges against him.
 
Fitswimmer said:
I used this on another thread, but it's appropriate here as well: Being a grown-up means you take responsibility for the consequences of your choices. No blaming, no excuses, no victimhood, no martyrdom.

One of the things I like about being Catholic is the concept of Confession. I cannot be truly forgiven for my sins unless I'm really sorry and I have a firm purpose to try and avoid that sin in the future. I also have to "own" my sinful nature and the tendencies I have that lead me to sin. I can't go into the Confessional and blame someone else, or excuse my actions through drugs or alcohol. If I did something sinful while under the influence, the first sin was getting drunk or using drugs.

The current trend of blaming everything on drugs, alcohol, past abuse or whatever is really getting old.


I know you said this is what you like about being Catholic, but the truth is, it is true of every Christian denomination. I have no idea who this man is, nor do I want to know him.

But the truth is, he is either sincere or not. Some will believe him, others will not. His family will either forgive him, or not. His congregation will or will not. None of that truly matters for this man. What matters is between him and God. He can fool people or not, but he CANNOT fool God. God knows his heart and his true sincereity.
Thankfully, I don't have to even worry about forgiving him or not.
 
Zippa D Doodah said:
Oh goodness, no! I could hardly imagine a situation in which he should be leading a church again. I certainly agree with you on that. As you would likely agree, there are consequences fro our actions that means some doors are closed to us even if we experience the grace of forgiveness.

I agree that he shouldnt be leading a church in the near future. BUT to say that he should never lead a church again is to deny God's sovereignity. God used David after he committed adultery. God used Moses after he murdered. God used Peter after he denied Christ 3 times. God used Paul after he had persecuted the church for MANY years. God can still use Haggard but Haggard must be fully repentant and biblically qualify for leadership after a period of watchcare. But unfortunately, Dobson is one of the ones charged to care for Haggard. But thats a WHOLE other matter
 
He has had plenty of time and opportunity to come clean outside of that statement to the church. Good to see that some see this non-apology for what it is.
 
aquinas said:
He never admitted to gay sex. Just sexual immorality.

I see the sexual immorality comment as admitting to gay sex, especially when viewed in context of the accusations.
 
aquinas said:
Confession is a crucial piece of forgiveness. Confession helps one with accountability in the future as well. Confession also shows that Haggard has come to terms with the totality of his sin and is still not in the state of denial that he was obviously entrenched in. Total confession will also help with the accuser as well and take the anger that is being placed on the accuser and have it fall on the shoulders of Haggard where it rightfully belongs. I would have a different take on this if Haggard had been honest from the start of all of this. Unfortunately, people appear to be right that he only confessed because he was caught.
I cannot believe I am saying this, someone needs to write this down...I totally agree with this!
 
JoyG said:
I see the sexual immorality comment as admitting to gay sex, especially when viewed in context of the accusations.

He could claim sexual immorality as to thinking about gay sex or looking at gay porn or having lustful thoughts towards man when he was receiving a "massage". He didnt admit to gay sex. I doubt he ever will.

Thats the problem though, admitting to sexual immorality is too vague and it leads the members of the church to interept that in different ways.
 
aquinas said:
He could claim sexual immorality as to thinking about gay sex or looking at gay porn or having lustful thoughts towards man when he was receiving a "massage". He didnt admit to gay sex. I doubt he ever will.

Thats the problem though, admitting to sexual immorality is too vague and it leads the members of the church to interept that in different ways.

Yeah, if Haggard was more explicit about his sexual immorality i.e.; gay sex, gay porn, gay whatever, he could clarify that the church should continue to find homosexuals despicable, isn't that the point? He could still be considered a good Christian. :thumbsup2
 
Soulforce Urges Compassion for Haggard and
Accountability for the National Association of Evangelicals
(Austin, TX) -- In response to the news that Rev. Ted Haggard has been dismissed by New Life Church and resigned as President of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE), Soulforce Executive Director Jeff Lutes urged the gay community to be compassionate and simultaneously called on the leaders of the NAE to claim responsibility for their role in the crisis.

"Rev. Haggard is just one more tragic example of how lives are destroyed by the lies about gay and lesbian people perpetuated by the NAE, the Religious Right, and both the Protestant and Roman Catholic Church. Taught by the church to hate himself, the only option from his point of view was to lead a psychologically and spiritually damaging double life marked by denial and self-destructive behavior. Rev. Haggard is a victim of religion-based bigotry that regularly demeans and demoralizes gay and lesbian people and refuses to acknowledge that we are part of the American fabric, and that many of us form loving families and practice a deep faith in God."

The NAE holds that "homosexuality is a deviation from the Creator's plan for human sexuality." In a 2004 policy statement, the organization opposes legislation that would protect gays and lesbians from hate crimes or employment discrimination on the grounds that "such legislation inevitably is perceived as legitimatizing [sic] the practice of homosexuality and elevates that practice to a level of an accepted moral standard."

Haggard submitted his resignation as President of the NAE on Thursday, shortly after allegations of homosexual activity were aired on Denver talk radio. On Saturday, Haggard was removed as pastor of New Life Church in Colorado Springs. In a letter to his congregation, Haggard wrote "there's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all my adult life." He also wrote that the church's overseers have required him to "submit to the oversight of Dr. James Dobson, Pastor Jack Hayford, and Pastor Tommy Barnett. Those men will perform a thorough analysis of my mental, spiritual, emotional and physical life. They will guide me through a program with the goal of healing and restoration for my life, my marriage, and my family."

In reaction to the unfolding events, Lutes said "Our community's anger at Rev. Haggard's hypocrisy is completely understandable. However, my hope is that our community will take the high road and extend an olive branch of friendship and support when he is ready to fully come out as a gay man. Dobson and the others will counsel him to bury, deny, and repress his sexuality even deeper than before. They will wound his spirit, and he is going to need our prayers and our compassionate message that God loves him, affirms him, and calls him to live his life openly with honesty and integrity."

www.soulforce.org
 
Rev. Haggard is a victim of religion-based bigotry that regularly demeans and demoralizes gay and lesbian people and refuses to acknowledge that we are part of the American fabric, and that many of us form loving families and practice a deep faith in God."

Now it's the Church's fault that he's a liar and a hypocrite???? What happened to the drugs made him do it?

Own up to the consequences of your own choices and ask forgiveness of those you have hurt. BE A GROWN UP, FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!!
 
Haggard wrote "there's a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all my adult life."


I think that this is the important part of all this. The way I view it, the man is gay and has known it a long time. I feel very sad for him, I can not imagine how much he hates the truth about himself. He has based his life preaching about how wrong being gay is and how important family values are (a very narrow view of values). Just my personal opinion.


I have lots to say about this, but not sure how far these boards let you go.
 
Give it some time. They will "cure" him and everything will be forgiven.
 
Mickey02 said:
I have been a member of this church for 15 years. Ted has been a remarkable leader. He has done so many good things for so many people. I understand why people are upset with him. My church is grieving right now please be understanding this has been so painful for the members of New Life. I wish you all knew the man. Just reading the reports and not knowing him I would be upset to but I do know this man and it is a loss for us.

It's a lot easier to just bash away. :rolleyes:

Admittedly, what he did was dispicable & hypocritical. His actions will cause some to stumble, something we are warned about in Scripture. He will be held accountable by God, his church did the right thing in asking him to leave, & he should be punished in any legally appropriate way. That being said, I'd like to remind us all of these words of wisdom from Jesus:

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." This doesn't just apply to Rev. Haggard, does it?
 


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