Guns in the House

[PrincessKsMom]

1. Very large dogs who think strangers taste like chicken

2. Sorry, I don't understand this.

3. I'm sure some of my child's friends were quite curious about his guns and I'm quite sure some of those children were not raised with the same respect for guns. That's precisely why the guns are stored properly and access is limited to those who know how to handle them.

Not sure what you don't understand about Question 2. There is a family member who has gun permits/permission to own guns, yet is completely irresponsible with their storage. According to the law and the local police that person has every right to own/possess weapons. What are the family members' rights if the person is maintaining these weapons in an unsafe manner? Would you call the police on your own family?

 

[KDIPIAZZ]

I asked before I let my child go there and to be honest I would have nothing in common with people that hunt so none of my friends are hunters or have guns.

Nothing at all? Really?

You don't enjoy organic, sustainable food sources? I do. Maybe you're not a fan of haute cuisine? I am. You don't enjoy spending time outside? I do. You don't have any concern for the environment and wildlife conservation? I do. You don't enjoy a good book, a warm bath, a glass of wine, good conversation? I do. Maybe you don't have a college education or an advanced degree ... I do. So does my mighty hunter husband.

You don't have children? Maybe you're not concerned about the high cost of higher education ... I am, but thankfully my son already has $6K in shooting-related scholarships.

You don't have clean fingernails ... or a clean house? Enjoy a pedicure? Go shopping? Enjoy antiquing? Play board games, computer games or own a gaming console? Like sports? Enjoy travelling?

Maybe it's that you're close-minded. That's something we don't have in common.

 

[WDWBlue]

Not opposed to guns at all. But I am opposed to situations where small kids start getting access to guns and blowing people away. Like Bicker said in an earlier post, people are too sloppy with guns regardless of all the countless people who are emphatic that they are careful. Situations like this happen much too often for that to be true.

These statements aren't supported by the facts. the number of reported gun accidents compared to the number of households with guns shows that the rate of incidence is extremely remote.

You're more likely to get hit by a car in a pedestrian cross walk.

 

[WDWBlue]

I have only had 1 cup of coffee. Exactly what are you saying?

Giving a disturbed 10 year old a weapon with ammunition says more about a parenting problem than gun ownership problems.

I read it several times and couldn't figure it out either.

 

[rie'smom]

It's a good thing the animals don't have thumbs or they'd be picking you off due to your overpopulation and the destruction you are causing to their habit.

I see the bacon in your signature. Do you eat beef and chicken, maybe veal? There are some real eye opening videos on how they're slaughtered. Google and watch them, then come back here and criticize.

 

[KDIPIAZZ]

Not sure what you don't understand about Question 2. There is a family member who has gun permits/permission to own guns, yet is completely irresponsible with their storage. According to the law and the local police that person has every right to own/possess weapons. What are the family members' rights if the person is maintaining these weapons in an unsafe manner? Would you call the police on your own family?

Sorry, the question was so far beyond my experiences with family members that I wasn't comprehending. Not clear if this family member is in the household or not. Husband? Uncle? Grandfather? Also, so as not to stereotype gun owners ... Aunt? Grandmother? Sister? Cousin?

Irresponsible gun ownership is not against the law, so I'm not sure what you would expect a call to the police to accomplish.

If a person that I lived with refused to store guns in a responsible manner, that's an indicator that we have bigger problems than needing to purchase a gun safe. We'd probably want to start hunting for a marriage counselor or a lawyer rather than the elusive white-tail.

If a family member that I didn't live with stored guns in a irresponsible manner, I wouldn't visit them unless I was confident in my ability to adequately supervise my child.

 

[WDWBlue]

I agree, so what's necessary is a way of telling the two groups apart, one from another, and ensuring, on an ongoing basis, that people in the "responsible" remain in that group and don't drift into the other group.

that's quite a scary position. Who gets to decide? Hopefully, this minority view never catches on.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I see the bacon in your signature. Do you eat beef and chicken, maybe veal? There are some real eye opening videos on how they're slaughtered. Google and watch them, then come back here and criticize.

Was in no way criticizing, simply stating a fact. There is an animal overpopulation because we continue to encrouch on the areas the animals originally called home before we continued to expand into their territory. Yes I do eat meat and I am aware of the horrendous ways they are slaughtered. I am also aware that everyone who hunts doesn't do so to provide for their families, but rather for the sport of it. I find killing for fun, regardless of species being killed, to be wrong.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Sorry, the question was so far beyond my experiences with family members that I wasn't comprehending. Not clear if this family member is in the household or not. Husband? Uncle? Grandfather? Also, so as not to stereotype gun owners ... Aunt? Grandmother? Sister? Cousin?

Irresponsible gun ownership is not against the law, so I'm not sure what you would expect a call to the police to accomplish.

If a person that I lived with refused to store guns in a responsible manner, that's an indicator that we have bigger problems than needing to purchase a gun safe. We'd probably want to start hunting for a marriage counselor or a lawyer rather than the elusive white-tail.

If a family member that I didn't live with stored guns in a irresponsible manner, I wouldn't visit them unless I was confident in my ability to adequately supervise my child.

Actually irreponsible gun ownership with minors present in this house is against the law in certain states. Obviously there are bigger problems at hand. My question is, for those of you who are pro-gun ownership, would you call the cops or report someone who was irresponsible with the storage of their weapons? Or do you believe that doing that would encroach upon their right to bear arms? What about the rights of the other household members, minors included?

 

[Colleen27]

Was in no way criticizing, simply stating a fact. There is an animal overpopulation because we continue to encrouch on the areas the animals originally called home before we continued to expand into their territory. Yes I do eat meat and I am aware of the horrendous ways they are slaughtered. I am also aware that everyone who hunts doesn't do so to provide for their families, but rather for the sport of it. I find killing for fun, regardless of species being killed, to be wrong.

That's a fine line, though. Where do you draw it? Is it only okay to hunt if that is the only meat you can provide? Does it become wrong to go out and hunt and eat the meat simply because you can afford meat from the grocery? How about to hunt for sport and then donate the meat to food banks and shelters, as many sportsmen in my state do?

I agree that hunting strictly for sport and allowing the carcass to go to waste is unethical, but I think those who would do so are a small minority among hunters. I see nothing wrong with enjoying the sport aspects of hunting as long as you are a good custodian of any game you kill. And as someone who tries to be an ethical omnivore, I consider hunted venison or other wild game to be a huge step above the meat of factory farmed animals that are abused and maltreated from birth to death (and no, before someone asks, I'm not perfect on that count - far from it; I buy most of my meats from humane farms but I still hit the grocery store meat dept from time to time and I don't ask about the sources of my food when dining out).

 

[PrincessKsMom]

That's a fine line, though. Where do you draw it? Is it only okay to hunt if that is the only meat you can provide? Does it become wrong to go out and hunt and eat the meat simply because you can afford meat from the grocery? How about to hunt for sport and then donate the meat to food banks and shelters, as many sportsmen in my state do?

I agree that hunting strictly for sport and allowing the carcass to go to waste is unethical, but I think those who would do so are a small minority among hunters. I see nothing wrong with enjoying the sport aspects of hunting as long as you are a good custodian of any game you kill. And as someone who tries to be an ethical omnivore, I consider hunted venison or other wild game to be a huge step above the meat of factory farmed animals that are abused and maltreated from birth to death (and no, before someone asks, I'm not perfect on that count - far from it; I buy most of my meats from humane farms but I still hit the grocery store meat dept from time to time and I don't ask about the sources of my food when dining out).

I agree with your post, other than I buy everything from the supermarket. I think it also depends where you're from, not only in the country, but rural/city.

FWIW, I have been skeet shooting, and have fired a number of handguns. I do understand the sport of shooting and agree it can be fun and a sport. My concern is more with people who are not good, safe, cognizant gun owners, specifically where children are involved. Just because the law says you can own a gun doesn't necessarily mean you should. I think sometimes the criteria for lawful gun ownership is too lenient. Not everyone should be able to walk into a gun show or gun shop and walk out with a firearm. JMHO. I think many people look at is as a right instead of a responsibility. I don't doubt that there are more responsible owners than not, but I'm not sure how we weed out the bad eggs without getting everyone else up in arms.

 

[Planogirl]

Okay, I have a sincere question for the don't kill or shoot or hunt anything peeps. . .

What are you going to do about the over population of some populations of animals that are currently causing ecological nightmares in some parts of the country?

For example, in my DH's hunting club's lease, which is about 2000 acres that includes some 2nd growth swamp (swamp that was cut once about a hundred years ago and is now protected land), they've decided that if they see a hog at any time, they will shoot it dead. The wild hogs have been destroying the environment and are a real menace. (As it's a nuisance animal, you can shoot a pig dead at any time, btw, at least in Louisiana.)

The deer population has exploded recently and the cause seems to be the lack of hunters; if this rise in population continues unabated, the result will be that those very cute rats-with-hooves will start destroying their environment and, my suspicion is that eventually we'd see some sort of disease run through their numbers, something even worse than the evil stuff that's affecting the deer populations in the middle Atlantic right now.

The natural predators of deer and pigs are in small numbers (let's face it, no one wants to have a cougar living near them, and any cougar in a 20 mile radius is really too close if you have small children, pets and/or livestock).

I'm not a zealot by any means but I find the argument that an imbalance of nature justifies hunting to be weak at best. True that cougars are rare but wolves and coyotes tend to continue to exist given the chance. But even without them it's just a little too convenient that people supposedly hunt to keep animal populations down.

I believe that the truth is that people just plain enjoy hunting for various reasons. They like to eat venison, be outdoors, hang out with everyone at the lease and so on. Nothing wrong with any of that IMO. There are also of course those who live in the boonies and hunt for sustenance. A few of my cousins fall into that category.

 

[jbcheerchick93]

I totally agree with everyone who has already shared their opinion in thinking that the fact that the ten year old with emotional/behavioral problems was given a gun and allowed to keep it and ammo in his room...bad bad bad!

In all honesty, I used to say that i would never date a hunter or have any sort of close relationship, never go hunting, nothing. I still think that I wouldn't be able to kill an animal myself, especially because I would only want to shoot turkey and they are too small of a target for me My best friend, a boy, loves to go shooting and owns a gun. In fact, just last night I was with him at another friend's house and they are planning on taking me and one other girl shooting sometime soon. Now, I'm pretty excited to learn how to properly use a shotgun. I wont pretend to know how most guns are kept, safety, nothing yet because I did not grow up around guns and I haven't yet had my "first lesson". With becoming much closer to someone who uses guns safely, I understand that there are many ways to keep them safe and with respect. The issue is that parents do not know how to educate their children about gun safety. If you are taught at a young age that a gun is not something to even THINK about touching, picking up, etc, you would instill those same things in your own children, would you not?

I honestly can't see myself ever having a problem with guns that are kept safely, those that are just lying around is another story. Even "nightstand" in my opinion is fine, you would want it close by you at night for safety if the issue truly came up, and you never know what could happen to you. Safe hunting and shooting everyone!

 

[Colleen27]

I'm not a zealot by any means but I find the argument that an imbalance of nature justifies hunting to be weak at best. True that cougars are rare but wolves and coyotes tend to continue to exist given the chance. But even without them it's just a little too convenient that people supposedly hunt to keep animal populations down.

I believe that the truth is that people just plain enjoy hunting for various reasons. They like to eat venison, be outdoors, hang out with everyone at the lease and so on. Nothing wrong with any of that IMO. There are also of course those who live in the boonies and hunt for sustenance. A few of my cousins fall into that category.

It isn't generally one or the other, though. Yes, the people who do it do so for enjoyment but that doesn't change the fact that it needs to be done. Natural predators can't manage the issue so long as we're unwilling to accept the risks to people and pets of having those predators living among us. Wolves and coyotes exist, but when they venture too close to civilization they're either killed or trapped and relocated. Meanwhile, the deer overpopulate and cause problems. A friend of mine recently hit one and totaled her car, not 5 miles outside of Detroit city limits and a good 30 miles from anywhere you'd think of as natural/wild/undeveloped habitat.

Regardless of any value judgment you attach to it, the fact is that we've encroached deeply on territory that used to belong to animals like deer, and need to do something to reduce their populations accordingly. Otherwise we invite frequent, dangerous encounters between wild animals and the human way of life.

 

[Inigo]

I asked before I let my child go there and to be honest I would have nothing in common with people that hunt so none of my friends are hunters or have guns.

So...you don't like literature, theatre, museums, art? (Disney?) What do you like?

 

[Planogirl]

It isn't generally one or the other, though. Yes, the people who do it do so for enjoyment but that doesn't change the fact that it needs to be done. Natural predators can't manage the issue so long as we're unwilling to accept the risks to people and pets of having those predators living among us. Wolves and coyotes exist, but when they venture too close to civilization they're either killed or trapped and relocated. Meanwhile, the deer overpopulate and cause problems. A friend of mine recently hit one and totaled her car, not 5 miles outside of Detroit city limits and a good 30 miles from anywhere you'd think of as natural/wild/undeveloped habitat.

Regardless of any value judgment you attach to it, the fact is that we've encroached deeply on territory that used to belong to animals like deer, and need to do something to reduce their populations accordingly. Otherwise we invite frequent, dangerous encounters between wild animals and the human way of life.

Oddly enough we have problems with coyotes and bobcats in our area. They regularly attack and kill cats and small dogs in our neighborhoods. We also have way too many rabbits who eat decorative plants and of course attract the coyotes and bobcats. Again, it's that problem with encroachment.

I don't argue that deer populations need to be controlled, I just responded to the notion that hunters hunted for that purpose. I doubt that most really give that much of a thought.

By the way, I do appreciate that hunters help finance wildlife control and habitate protection as much as they do. I think that's a good thing.

 

[bicker]

You've made several posts to this thread, but still haven't made your position clear.

Actually, I have made my position very clear. The situation is not simplistic, so people's perspectives on this shouldn't be simplistic.

The points I've made:

- This sort of thing happens time and time again. It isn't an isolated situation.

- Given the tragedy that can occur, it seems like an iron-clad solution is essential. Reliance on the good intentions and conscientiousness of people clearly hasn't worked.

- The fact that gunshot wounds can be fatal makes this situation unique from many other situations.

- The fact that that harm can be caused at a distance adds a second layer of uniqueness.

- In light of these special circumstances, special assurance is necessary to ensure that guns are stored and used responsibly.

- That that assurance cannot just be front-ended, but must be ongoing, because people who were conscientious can suddenly be people who are not, and the only way to detect that is to check.

- Assurance protects everyone's rights.

 

[bicker]

Huh? Hunting is a hobby like any other, not an all encompassing lifestyle choice or something. That's like saying you wouldn't have anything in common with people who ski or scrapbook - one hobby doesn't define a person's entire existence.

I agree. Another good example is RV camping; there's a community of RV campers here on the DIS who surely are not representative of the entire RV camping community.

 

[bicker]

So, are all your friends vegans? I'm almost at a loss for words that comment ranks pretty high up there as one of the most ridiculous comments I have ever seen on this board.

I think you should rethink your reply. Consider a moral value that you hold dear; and then consider being friends with someone who regularly practices a behavior that directly violates your values. Perhaps you're pro-life; can you be "friends" (not just acquaintances; but "friends") with a physician who performs abortions? Perhaps you're gay; can you "friends", truly "friends", with someone who, on weekends, carries a sign "God Hates Gays"?

We talk a lot about tolerance and acceptance. Those are two different things, one more strongly positive than the other. Tolerance is not attacking others because their values are different from yours. Acceptance is granting that their living in accordance with their values is legitimate. Tolerance is essentially patronizing; acceptance is the minimum level of civility that should be expected between strangers and acquaintances, regardless of their differences. But neither tolerance nor acceptance is a legitimate foundation for friendship. Friendship requires connection on a deeper level, a connection precluded by diametrically-oppositional values.

 

[bicker]

I mean, it would probably come up in casual conversation eventually, but it is hardly something you'd know from first impressions.

We're not talking about "first impressions". We're talking about friendship. Are you suggesting that you become true friends with someone based on "first impressions"?