Guns in the House

[SaraJayne]

Very true!

I guess I should qualify that and say that generally, most Canadians are not as rabid about their right to own a gun as most Americans are.

 

[GeorgeG]

I guess the hugs are not going to happen here...

Everyone is going to continue to have their own opinion in this issue. I do think everyone, or at least most of us, agree that gun ownership involves some serious responsibility for keepig them safe. That's pure logic. On one extreme we have a few who simply can't be friends with anyone who owns a gun or hunts. That a little too judgemental for my liking, but that's people for you. Others think guns should be strictly controlled or banned. I disagree, but we all have a right to our opinion and we might even argue that right is guaranteed, at least in part, by the right to keep and bear arms. Many others agree that there is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. That seems to be the winning attitude here. Nobody has come out in support of allowing criminals and mentally unstable people to have guns or for guns to be kept on the kitchen counter. So, we are back to logic again.

I'm not about to tell you how to live your lives, but here's how it works for me: I have some guns. Nowhere as many as I used to when I hunted, but I kept a shotgun and some handguns. Do I need them? I sure hope not! Have you ever heard the line about having something and not needing it being better than needing it and not having it? All but one of my guns are locked up in a gun safe that is not even visible to people who come into my house. My situation allows me to keep one loaded and available for that "just in case" scenario that I hope will never come. It is not readily available to the average visitor. When I know children will be visiting (my Marine Sgt. grandson being an exception), that gun does get locked away with the others. My adult friends would never go to where that gun is kept. If you came to visit unannounced and your child snooped and found that gun, you have not raised that child very well. Shame on you. If you don't want to be my friend or refuse to come to my home because I have a gun, well, so be it.

Most people consider me a good person and I like WDW and hugs, so whenever you're ready for that group hug, look me up. I'll go away now...

 

[Magpie]

My goodness, I was just looking up gun ownership statistics and check this out:

Guns per 100 residents

1 United States 90.0
2 Yemen 61.0
3 Switzerland 46.0
4 Iraq 39.0
5 Serbia 37.5
6 France 32.0
7 Finland 32.0
8 Greece 31.8
9 Canada 31.5
10 Sweden 31.5

That's a lot of guns per capita!

 

[PrincessKsMom]

I guess the hugs are not going to happen here...

Everyone is going to continue to have their own opinion in this issue. I do think everyone, or at least most of us, agree that gun ownership involves some serious responsibility for keepig them safe. That's pure logic. On one extreme we have a few who simply can't be friends with anyone who owns a gun or hunts. That a little too judgemental for my liking, but that's people for you. Others think guns should be strictly controlled or banned. I disagree, but we all have a right to our opinion and we might even argue that right is guaranteed, at least in part, by the right to keep and bear arms. Many others agree that there is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. That seems to be the winning attitude here. Nobody has come out in support of allowing criminals and mentally unstable people to have guns or for guns to be kept on the kitchen counter. So, we are back to logic again.

I'm not about to tell you how to live your lives, but here's how it works for me: I have some guns. Nowhere as many as I used to when I hunted, but I kept a shotgun and some handguns. Do I need them? I sure hope not! Have you ever heard the line about having something and not needing it being better than needing it and not having it? All but one of my guns are locked up in a gun safe that is not even visible to people who come into my house. My situation allows me to keep one loaded and available for that "just in case" scenario that I hope will never come. It is not readily available to the average visitor. When I know children will be visiting (my Marine Sgt. grandson being an exception), that gun does get locked away with the others. My adult friends would never go to where that gun is kept. If you came to visit unannounced and your child snooped and found that gun, you have not raised that child very well. Shame on you. If you don't want to be my friend or refuse to come to my home because I have a gun, well, so be it.

Most people consider me a good person and I like WDW and hugs, so whenever you're ready for that group hug, look me up. I'll go away now...

I agree completely. For me it's all about safe gun ownership. I don't believe you should have the right to leave a loaded weapon (or a weapon and ammo) lying around your house in plain sight of anyone who comes along. Safe gun ownership is all I ask. Obviously there are many, many instances where this isn't the case, but I'm sure there are many more instances where it is!

 

[need2cruise]

Also on the dogs... I love having (and will always have) 2 large dogs. 2 dogs are seriously no more work than having 1 dog, and in many ways less work (they entertain each other, and us, a whole lot!) OK, the once a year vet visit - but I bring them both at the same time. I have 2 bowls of food I have to fill instead of 1, and I open the door to let them out for 1 second longer for the 2nd dog to go through (actually we have a doggie door, so this doesn't really apply to me usually). Just food for thought... I think someone hearing 2 loud barking dogs inside a house would really rethink their intentions ("ok, I can tangle w/ one dog, but 2??")

And I don't have all the facts on the school shooting, but if the dad is an officer, and didn't have his gun locked away from his kid, that dad IS a total idiot and should be held 100% accountable for his sons actions. My dh often comments on how he notices that police officers are sometimes the worst offenders of NOT locking up their guns properly (his own dad didn't). Maybe they get SO comfortable with them, it's just not on the forefront of their minds - I don't know. But it's not ok!

They don't lock them because they are on duty 24/7. Police are required to act at any time-day or night. So most do keep their guns near by. They should keep them put up where a young child can't reach them though.

And I agree that gun owners should be educated as well. I guess I thought it all goes together without needing to be stated as such.

 

[Hercules10]

My goodness, I was just looking up gun ownership statistics and check this out:

Guns per 100 residents

1 United States 90.0
2 Yemen 61.0
3 Switzerland 46.0
4 Iraq 39.0
5 Serbia 37.5
6 France 32.0
7 Finland 32.0
8 Greece 31.8
9 Canada 31.5
10 Sweden 31.5

That's a lot of guns per capita!

But which of those guns are assault rifles/RPGs vs. the purely sport guns here in the states? And me thinks those figures for Iraq are skrewd.

 

[need2cruise]

I agree completely. For me it's all about safe gun ownership. I don't believe you should have the right to leave a loaded weapon (or a weapon and ammo) lying around your house in plain sight of anyone who comes along. Safe gun ownership is all I ask. Obviously there are many, many instances where this isn't the case, but I'm sure there are many more instances where it is!

I think thats where the outrage does come in. A lot of your gun owners do take pride in their guns and keep them put up and safe and promote the gun education to their children,etc. However, there are idiots who have guns who do not do the same thing, but there is no fixing that problem--you can't teach people to be responsible. I look at it like driving a vehicle. Most of us obey the laws when it comes to that but there are the idiots who speed, drink & drive or totally disobey traffic laws that cause injuires and fatalities. We don't go around saying--take away drivers licenses or cars. But everyone shouldn't be penalized because of the idiots.

 

[Magpie]

But which of those guns are assault rifles/RPGs vs. the purely sport guns here in the states? And me thinks those figures for Iraq are skrewd.

Maybe not as skewed as all that... I'm thinking wealth and freedom probably plays into the Iraq statistics.

A soldier in the third world owns one gun - and only one gun. It's a privilege that comes with being conscripted into the army. While an American homeowner might have six... or sixteen. And he can just go to Walmart and buy another one whenever he wants (within certain not-terribly-restrictive limits).

 

[bicker]

Bicker, in some of your posts you sound very much like you believe that any right can be taken away and that those we have are only there for the time being contingent on the authorities.

No, not quite. More like, in any case where rights conflict, neither right will have permanent and immutable precedence over the other. And in the end, the "authorities" don't strike the balance in a vacuum, but rather in the context of what processes placed them in the position to make that determination, all of which trace back to We The People voting.

 

[bicker]

Nobody has come out in support of allowing criminals and mentally unstable people to have guns

And that really highlights my earlier point that the right to possess guns can rightfully be limited, despite the impression some have of what the Constitution says. The right is not absolute. It is conditional, and can be restricted by the passage of law, alone.

 

[bicker]

A lot of your gun owners do take pride in their guns and keep them put up and safe and promote the gun education to their children,etc. However, there are idiots who have guns who do not do the same thing, but there is no fixing that problem--you can't teach people to be responsible.

I agree completely. You've basically made an excellent case for random verifications.

I look at it like driving a vehicle.

Indeed, and we do every day. Your driving is visible to the whole town, every time you pull out of the driveway. If it looks like you're being irresponsible, the privilege can be taken away. (Note, also, that there is a difference between driving, which is a privilege, and gun ownership, which is a right, but the point you perhaps-inadvertently highlighted is still important: How visible is it whether the person is conducting the activity responsibly? How much transparency does the act, itself, necessitate you provide to others with regard to your conscientiousness?)

 

[Muushka]

I guess the hugs are not going to happen here...

Everyone is going to continue to have their own opinion in this issue. I do think everyone, or at least most of us, agree that gun ownership involves some serious responsibility for keepig them safe. That's pure logic. On one extreme we have a few who simply can't be friends with anyone who owns a gun or hunts. That a little too judgemental for my liking, but that's people for you. Others think guns should be strictly controlled or banned. I disagree, but we all have a right to our opinion and we might even argue that right is guaranteed, at least in part, by the right to keep and bear arms. Many others agree that there is nothing wrong with responsible gun ownership. That seems to be the winning attitude here. Nobody has come out in support of allowing criminals and mentally unstable people to have guns or for guns to be kept on the kitchen counter. So, we are back to logic again.

I'm not about to tell you how to live your lives, but here's how it works for me: I have some guns. Nowhere as many as I used to when I hunted, but I kept a shotgun and some handguns. Do I need them? I sure hope not! Have you ever heard the line about having something and not needing it being better than needing it and not having it? All but one of my guns are locked up in a gun safe that is not even visible to people who come into my house. My situation allows me to keep one loaded and available for that "just in case" scenario that I hope will never come. It is not readily available to the average visitor. When I know children will be visiting (my Marine Sgt. grandson being an exception), that gun does get locked away with the others. My adult friends would never go to where that gun is kept. If you came to visit unannounced and your child snooped and found that gun, you have not raised that child very well. Shame on you. If you don't want to be my friend or refuse to come to my home because I have a gun, well, so be it.

Most people consider me a good person and I like WDW and hugs, so whenever you're ready for that group hug, look me up. I'll go away now...

I'll give you a hug, George .

And I agree with everything you have said. I like to read threads like this because it gives me an idea of what people are thinking. When you meet someone and start discussing issues, some are not as open to discussing certain subjects. But this is anonymous, so a good indication of what people really think.

I know for the most part nobody will change their mind because of what they read here, but at least we all have a little more knowledge and if we ever do change our minds, perhaps this may have helped.

I know for myself, I used to be very liberal/conservative (not saying which but you can probably figure it out ). Pretty much anything that I disagree/agree with today, I believed were correct/incorrect many years ago.

I remember one time my sister and I were discussing something political. She admitted that she could never say that fill-in-the-blank was wrong because that would mean that she had been wrong all these years, and she would and could not do that.

I just hope that as we read these threads and pay attention to what is going on in the world, we learn from them and perhaps give up some ideals that we hold true, that may not be so ideal.

 

[need2cruise]

I agree completely. You've basically made an excellent case for random verifications.

Indeed, and we do every day. Your driving is visible to the whole town, every time you pull out of the driveway. If it looks like you're being irresponsible, the privilege can be taken away. (Note, also, that there is a difference between driving, which is a privilege, and gun ownership, which is a right, but the point you perhaps-inadvertently highlighted is still important: How visible is it whether the person is conducting the activity responsibly? How much transparency does the act, itself, necessitate you provide to others with regard to your conscientiousness?)

Well--there are some people who can drive a car straight w/ a 2.0 BAC and you never know till that fateful moment. Or add in marijuana, or their prescription medications that alter their reaction time. So, no it's not always visible if you are operating accurately. If we go on this assumption, we can base that we have the right to guns--so we should just assume that someone has one and then "watch" to see if they are owning it "properly".

I think there is way too much emphasis on worrying about what others are doing around you. All you can worry about is yourself. If you are worried about a neighbor accidently shooting a gun through your wall---move out in the country away from people. There are options w/out intruding on peoples current rights. Just because you want to feel safe in your home by knowing your neighbors don't have guns, doesn't mean you have the right to take away their security by taking away their guns.

 

[bicker]

So, no it's not always visible if you are operating accurately.

But at least there is transparency there. It doesn't have to be 100% effective in order to have a positive impact on the objective.

I think there is way too much emphasis on worrying about what others are doing around you.

Tell that to the family and friends of the folks who have been killed due to irresponsible gun owners. I think the attitude that the irresponsibility leading up to the death of their loved one isn't any of their business is callous and offensive.

 

[GinnyEmma]

But you can't, or I guess in my case, won't live my life in fear of what others might do. Accidents happen, bad people make bad choices, etc. It isn't callous on my part, just pragmatic. I can hide away and be beyond safe, or I can realize that if I am interacting with the world, traveling, etc., that there are risks.

 

[need2cruise]

But at least there is transparency there. It doesn't have to be 100% effective in order to have a positive impact on the objective.

Tell that to the family and friends of the folks who have been killed due to irresponsible gun owners. I think the attitude that the irresponsibility leading up to the death of their loved one isn't any of their business is callous and offensive.

That goes to any family that has dealt with a death of a loved one by accident--not just those dealing with it by death of guns. I don't go after the family that knew their loved one was an alcholic and just let it go, I don't go after the bartenders who served their drinks that night, nor do I go after the store that sold the alcohol to them.

If someone has a gun, and the are not responsible with it--then they will deal with those ramifications when it happens--same as with any situation that leads to a person dying by accident. We can't put bubble wrap around life and guarantee everyone is going to die peacefully in their beds at the ripe age of 102. It sounds like that is what you are looking for.

 

[bicker]

But you can't, or I guess in my case, won't live my life in fear of what others might do.

Absolutely. Again, it doesn't need to be 100% effective to be valuable in contributing to improvement. Assurance never renders the process being reviewed into perfection, but satisfactorily boosts the likelihood of a positive result.

 

[136368]

How about restricting the type of weapon permitted? I mean, you hardly need a minigun to go hunting with and, frankly, it would be ridiculous in the role of home security!

 

[bicker]

I don't go after the bartenders who served their drinks that night, nor do I go after the store that sold the alcohol to them.

That's you. Your preferences, in this regard, are not those that are actually in force in our society. Both bartenders and liquor store owners are held liable, both in both civil and criminal proceedings, if they are irresponsible in the storage and/or distribution of their offerings. And perhaps it would be best if our society's attitudes with regard to responsible gun ownership followed a similar pattern to these two examples you provided.

 

[need2cruise]

But what about the family members who know their family member is an alcoholic? Or knows they take presription drugs.......should they be held accountable too? Sorry--I disagree---a person is ONLY responsible for their OWN actions.......period. The disboards preaches this a lot. I don't think anyone else should be held accountable for anothers actions....to say differently......well...........I guess that just sums up a lot of mentality. People wanna always push the blame on others.