Guest Test of Magic Bands (Official Notice)

[mom2rtk]

Can you get 3 FPs for the same ride? Last year, I rode TSMM 8 times by early afternoon, utlizing stand by and fast passes. I think I used 3 FPs total.

No duplicates allowed. That is a big change in and of itself.

 

[superdisneydork]

Can you get 3 FPs for the same ride? Last year, I rode TSMM 8 times by early afternoon, utlizing stand by and fast passes. I think I used 3 FPs total.

No duplicates allowed. That is a big change in and of itself.

Hi folks...in a short line for POTC and thought I would check in with an update. We rode standby on Haunted Mansion and ended up not wanting to use our FP+ for that ride later in the day. So I logged into the my Disney Exp app in my phone and it to a Splash Mtn FP+. It was great cause we already used one FP+ earlier in the day. So we used two FP+ on the same ride which is something I couldn't do when originally reserving them online.

It looks as if you can use duplicates, you just can't prebook them perhaps? Or this was a loophole in the system that whatsarahsaid stumbled across, it's hard to know for sure. If this is intended thouhg, you could conceivably prebook one, then upon arriving book one or two more if they're available. Though, I would expect TSMM to be one those 60 day sellouts, if any ride were going to be, it would be that one!

Matt

 

[andrewilley]

I wonder what the backup procedure will be for when either a chip fails or the system goes down, once it's fully live and there are no backup KttW cards around?

At the moment, if the RFID fails on a card then they can swipe it, or scan the barcode, or in the worst case manually enter the details as printed on the back of the card. The MagicBands won't have any of those options to fall back on if there is a problem reading them.

Andre

 

[mom2rtk]

It looks as if you can use duplicates, you just can't prebook them perhaps? Or this was a loophole in the system that whatsarahsaid stumbled across, it's hard to know for sure. If this is intended thouhg, you could conceivably prebook one, then upon arriving book one or two more if they're available. Though, I would expect TSMM to be one those 60 day sellouts, if any ride were going to be, it would be that one!

Matt

Yes it's possible that when they unveil this that if you can get additional same day fps (which I think will happen) that you can double up. But the PP is there during a test which does not have all the rules and limitations the new system will likely have. So I'd be careful trying to extrapolate that.

 

[superdisneydork]

Yes it's possible that when they unveil this that if you can get additional same day fps (which I think will happen) that you can double up. But the PP is there during a test which does not have all the rules and limitations the new system will likely have. So I'd be careful trying to extrapolate that.

Oh I completely agree, I'm pretty sure that wasn't intended, but it's an interesting stipulation to consider. Also, I hope you're right about the same day FPs being available, but I worry about them all getting booked up once the system is in full effect. The test groups just aren't that large yet, and won't ever emulate a full scale operation until it's actually a full-scale operation.

I do like the idea that prebooked FP+s have limitations that don't affect day of FP+ though, that sort of makes sense to me. This might help combat sell outs of headliners, if Disney felt a significant portion of the problem was people pulling FPs for the same ride over and over. By limiting the prebooks to one per ride, they mitigate that, but day of could work similar to current FP. I still worry about general daily capacity and sell outs though.

Matt

 

[futreWDI]

Just because I'd like to know... on average, how many FastPasses do your families usually get in a day (not FP+)? I don't think my family ever had to get more than three.

Also, since the Dis loves their acronyms, the CM's will be calling it MDX not MDE, if you want to stay on par with them.

 

[skilesare]

I know I'll be scarred forever if they limit me to 3 FP+s.

I would imagine that number will go up once the old FP system is turned off.

 

[WillAustin]

I would imagine that number will go up once the old FP system is turned off.

I was making a joke about the "guest scarification" but I'm not so sure the number will go up. I expect the number of people using FP+ daily to end up significantly higher than the number of people who use the current FP system each day. I think they will be spread out across more people getting fewer FPs each.

 

[skilesare]

And even the MK will fall well short during most of the year. The mountains can service at best 5000 people an hour total at FP+ being 80% of the queue. For a 12 hour day, they will have a total of 60,000 Mountain FP+. That's barely enough for each visitor to have ONE FP for ONE mountain of their choosing.

The math goes horribly wrong from there.

I think you are missing a huge portion of the math here. If the mountains currently handle 75,000 rides a day, how many of those are the current FP system? 60% maybe? If they up it to 80% and they hand 60,000 of those to FP+ then that is 60,000 people that have a BETTER experience.

The amount of time spent standing in line for those people will be DRASTICALLY cut. 75,000 rides is 75,000 rides. The average wait time is [Total Time Waited by all guests]/75,000. FP+ reduces that top number more than the current FP system.

The current wait thresholds are already based on self selection. If the standby wait on space is 180 minutes the people will opt out and not ride.

FP+ increase the possibility of longer listed wait times but will reduce the average of time actually waited in line by all guests.

Reserving FastPasses will reduce the amount of time the average guest spends in line. It allows them to enjoy more of the park, watch shows, spend money, etc.

To put it another way, Say that the average wait time on the mountains during Christmas season increases to 4 hours due to FP+. Then the 15,000 available standby riders wait a total of 60,000 hours. In the current system they are waiting 3 hours for 30,000 rides. That is 90,000 hours. A savings of 30,000 hours.

If they were smart. And they probably are. They'd move to 99% FP+ and release them in waves through the current day. They have been using this method at the deli section of your local grocery store for years and it has been working fine. Take number. We'll call you. Continue shopping.

 

[squirrel4569]

So the 1 park/day thing is really bugging me. I'm not a hopper typically, but many are and I'm wondering if Disney is trying to get rid of the hopper altogether.

Here's the potential reasoning. Hoppers are usually the planners. They know the park hours, which will be busiest, they have ADRs, etc. So they hit up a busy park at RD, then move to a slower park in the afternoon/evening. They get to ride all the headliners in both parks and maximize the FP system to the max. They do DHS and AK in half days, splitting that time with evening EMH at MK, etc.

So now think about this. If hopper were eliminated and AP holders could only do 1 park per day in order to accomplish the same amount of park time you would need more days in your trip. Some will argue that the park ticket is only $10 more per day and PH is nearly $60 more for the trip. That is correct, but the cheapest hotel is still $100+ a day and you're likely to spend at least $30/day in food and drinks, probably more. And since you're spending another day in the parks and at the resorts you'll probably spend a little more on some souvenir thing too.

That's a way to look at it in a negative, corporate money grab kind of way, which it may very well be.

Another thought that I have, like many here, is that 3 FP isn't enough. Then I also here, sometimes from the same people, that the ratio of standby guests to FP guests is out of whack, causing enormous lines for standby. If the current SB to FP ratio is 1:8 (for every 1 standby guest 8 fastpass guests are allowed) and the SB line is 60 minutes, if the number of FP are lowered and the SB queue could handle more guests faster, at say a 1:4 ratio and the time was down to 30 minutes, would that be acceptable? (Keep in mind I'm just throwing out numbers here and have no idea if my math works or not) Would it be an improvement if you could get TSMM and Soarin FP without the running of the bulls at RD or waiting in a 2 hour long queue? Let's say your worst fears come true and you can't get a FP booked at 60+10 for either TSMM or Soarin, but at noon the queue is only 45 minutes long. Would that be ok?

I'm understanding more of what some are concerned about. Working in IT I understand some of what is going on here because computer bandwidth and resources are often used in a similar fashion to FP on rides. 10% of people/programs use 5 or more FP/ or 90% of the bandwidth. You have a bunch of guests who use no FP/minimal bandwidth. We'll say that group is about 15%. You have a group that uses 1 FP/slight bandwidth. Probably 20%. Then you have the masses, that probably use 3 FP/moderate bandwidth. We'll say this is 65%. The average is likely 3 based on the heavy users and minimal users canceling each other out. So you can size a system or in this case, FP, based on the average usage. It's fair, but those that used to use it a lot will be upset and the ones that don't use it much will likely not notice. With the change to the bands though, I think that more people will be told about FP and how it works and that it's free. Many people that I've talked to, even some that have been before, assume that there is a fee for it because all of the other parks charge for it. With that knowledge there will be an increase in usage by the lower percentage groups that were unaware or uninformed about how FP worked in the past.

Another thought that just occurred to me in regards to charging for FP+ eventually. I don't think they'll go this way. Because Disney is so big into customer service and satisfaction I think they'll avoid adding more fees onto something that is already considered by many to be too expensive. Consider the bag fees with the airlines as an example. Southwest Airlines, who makes customer satisfaction a priority, doesn't charge for bags and while their fares have gone up, many people still view them as a value because they are getting something for "free" that other companies charge "extra" for. Disney can continue to tout that FP+ is available to all guests at no extra charge, regardless of where you are staying. Little things like that can keep someone from going to Universal based on "principle."

Just my 2 cents. YMMV.

 

[doconeill]

I think you are missing a huge portion of the math here. If the mountains currently handle 75,000 rides a day, how many of those are the current FP system? 60% maybe? If they up it to 80% and they hand 60,000 of those to FP+ then that is 60,000 people that have a BETTER experience.

I'm not sure what you mean by handing 60k over to FP+, and it somehow making it a better experience for 60k people. How many of those 60k would have used regular FP? The experience likely doesn't change for them.

The difference between the 60% and 80% of the presumed 75k is 15k. So 15k may get a better experience.

But that's assuming it is only 60% now, and they can increase it to 80% without general adverse impact. Subjective evidence have led a lot to believe that they have already increase the FP issue rate to what they want for FP+. And most of the rest of your argument is based on them being able to increase it further.

If they were smart. And they probably are. They'd move to 99% FP+ and release them in waves through the current day. They have been using this method at the deli section of your local grocery store for years and it has been working fine. Take number. We'll call you. Continue shopping.

They tested a "take-a-ticket" system a couple times at RNRC. They elected not to use it in general, but did adapt it for Dumbo - and still are offering FP/FP+ there.

Pushing FP/FP+ up to 99% would make the standby line completely impractical, and if that happens, the will alienate a lot of guests more so than they might be doing with FP+ to begin with.

Because although the combined mountains might be able to service a majority of the MK guests most of the year, that also means that each of those guests is only riding ONE of those mountains that day. Or, if one person manages to pre-book all three with their three FP+, it means two others lost out on their one. That's not a better experience in my book.

 

[doconeill]

I meant to comment on this as well...

The current wait thresholds are already based on self selection. If the standby wait on space is 180 minutes the people will opt out and not ride.

Which would still hold true...

FP+ increase the possibility of longer listed wait times but will reduce the average of time actually waited in line by all guests.

I'm not convinced it will increase wait times in the standby lines.

I had a nice long post where I break it down, but I think the number of people using the standby line will be reduced. Ah, here it is:

It can be argued that those riding TSM more than once are likely doing so via Fastpass, at least once. Not all, but probably the majority. Some are very likely to be doing it using multiple Fastpasses.

Now, if you can only get one FP+, what happens? Warning...assumptions ahead, but based on observation and logic!!! (No, Doc, don't bring logic into this!!!)

Assumption 1: Regardless if you can get more FP+ in the park, you can still only get one per attraction.

Assumption 2: Those riding TSM with FP/FP+ will not be required to have to choose a FP+ for TSM or something else due to number of FP+ limitations or potential tiering of attractions.

Let's give names to different classes of TSM riders. And see if I can pull together a coherent argument despite interruptions.

The "duplicates". They get multiple FPs through the day for TSM, and ride 2+ times via FP, and potentially via standby as well, although if they do I expect it isn't more than once.

The "fast-and-slows". They ride twice - once standby, once FP.

The "one-and-dones". They only ride once, either standby or FP, but are at least FP-savvy.

The "don't-get-its", those who don't understand FP, and probably still won't understand FP+.

Now, the "fast-and-slows" aren't likely to change at all, since the changes don't affect them as far as this argument goes (they may need to make a choice and give up their TSM FP+ for something else, but lets assume they don't need to make that choice). So we can ignore them.

The "don't-get-its" also aren't likely to change. They are still a constant in the standby lines with their glares.

The duplicates are definitely affected, as they now can't get more than one FP. So what do they do? They can still ride multiple times, but they have to do it via standby. Some will, but I have a feeling most likely only do so because of FP, and won't. So while a few might go standby and increase the line there, others won't. So less FP usage, with a lesser increase in standby usage. This alone would be a standby win as standby users will take the missing FP slots. Advantage: Standby.

Now the "one-and-dones" are also affected. Those that end up in the standby line simply because there are no FPs available after noon, now have the potential to get a FP+ given up by the former duplicates. They likely will fill all those slots again - but then they are taking themselves out of the standby line on a 1-for-1 basis. So although the FP+ line goes back to before, the standby line decreases by the same degree, so it is shorter. Advantage: Standby.

Now of course there could be outliers - former one-and-dones that become opportunistic fast-and-slows now that a FP+ is dangled in front of them, but in the same token some duplicates and fast-and-slows may opt all the way down to one-and-dones. And for each former duplicate that used to ride 3+ times and now drops to 1, there are that many more slots opened for others.

That's why I'm actually seeing this as a potential win for the standby line.

 

[whatsarahsaid]

It looks as if you can use duplicates, you just can't prebook them perhaps? Or this was a loophole in the system that whatsarahsaid stumbled across, it's hard to know for sure. If this is intended thouhg, you could conceivably prebook one, then upon arriving book one or two more if they're available. Though, I would expect TSMM to be one those 60 day sellouts, if any ride were going to be, it would be that one!

Matt

Definitely was able to do it using my iPhone app after using my first FP+ of the day. Did it again with RNRC morning. Between legacy FP and FP+ we were able to ride 4 times in less than 2.5 hours while standby wait was 90 minutes.

 

[whatsarahsaid]

I should add that my husband and I were keenly aware that the ability to use legacy FP and FP+ at the SAME time was a huge perk and we feel very fortunate! Just don't want everyone to think we were greedy punks! ;-)

FYI...I also communicated in the focus group that 3 FP+ did not seem like enough. At least for "super planners" like my husband and I!

 

[CuteAsMinnie]

Does it stand to reason that once FP+ goes live

There will be at least 60 days notice?

So guests can book their FP+ 60 days out?

And they won't decide to start it, in say.. 3 weeks from now?

And those checking in at that time would be stuck with it?

And then make their FP+ reservations after check in?

 

[ciera321]

I miss the good old days of stocking up on FPs and using them whenever I wanted. No flames please, but that worked so well for us!!!

 

[doconeill]

Does it stand to reason that once FP+ goes live

There will be at least 60 days notice?

So guests can book their FP+ 60 days out?

And they won't decide to start it, in say.. 3 weeks from now?

And those checking in at that time would be stuck with it?

And then make their FP+ reservations after check in?

I see no reason to assume that they will give a 60-day lead time. However, I think there will be SOME lead time.

I expect a staged roll out. Guest staying at X resort checking in after Y first, then another resort, then another...perhaps in groups. Non-resort non-AP guests folded in at some point, likely towards the end. AP holders probably somewhere in the middle.

Just guessing on my part though.

 

[4disneygenerations]

My concern is the same as so many on here. We arrive the end of August and if they roll this FP+ out in full right around the time we get there, what will happen to our chances of getting good FP+ Also the other big concern is young children wearing or I should say not wanting to wear this band. We are able to manage one trip each year and plan for it accordingly, but it will be very upseting to me and my family if we are unable to ride the rides we love. And one other thing I am also very concerned about the overload with all the computer systems in place. I still have problems with the WDW site and my reservation and dining information.
I check these boards every day for more info, so thanks for listening to my concerns.

 

[Pirate4Ever]

I still don't understand the sentiment that due to FP+ people "won't be able to ride the rides they love". Who says you can't ride something if you don't have a FP+ for it? Surely Disney isn't. Will you have to wait in a standby line? Sure. But if you want to ride, you can ride.

This is going to change the way we all do Disney. And a lot of us don't like change because we've gotten really darned good at doing Disney. But once the program completely rolls out and is running the way Disney has planned, we will all adjust and figure out the most effective ways to tour under the new system.

And if you don't like it- if FP+ is a "deal breaker" and you're going elsewhere, then that's your right. I'm still going to Disney.

 

[mom2rtk]

I still don't understand the sentiment that due to FP+ people "won't be able to ride the rides they love". Who says you can't ride something if you don't have a FP+ for it? Surely Disney isn't. Will you have to wait in a standby line? Sure. But if you want to ride, you can ride.

This is going to change the way we all do Disney. And a lot of us don't like change because we've gotten really darned good at doing Disney. But once the program completely rolls out and is running the way Disney has planned, we will all adjust and figure out the most effective ways to tour under the new system.

And if you don't like it- if FP+ is a "deal breaker" and you're going elsewhere, then that's your right. I'm still going to Disney.

You really think doing standby is the same?

We spent one evening in the MK when we were in FL recently. We got there at 3 and stayed until 1 AM. And we never got to do Space Mountain. The wait was longer than 90 minutes that entire time. Fastpasses were gone, and we thought we'd get in the standby line right before closing. It was 105 minutes at 12:50.

We generally won't wait in a line that's longer than 30 minutes. Why should we wait in longer lines in the name of progress? That sounds more like a step backwards to me. And it sounds like a lot less value for my money, while ticket prices continue to climb.