Gross household income on the DIS

[crisi]

Personally, I'd rather tell people we make a lot of money than imply that they overspend, which is what we imply when those of us with relative wealth tell someone who makes $30k a year that "all" we do is live frugally (and leave off of the "on a larger, and sometimes significantly larger, than average income).

 

[marmalade]

We've been poor and not poor, never rich. Right now we earn approx 2.5x's the median household income for our area. There were times when we earned less.

 

[lauradis]

OP are we including investment income or just paycheck income?

 

[islandtimect]

OP are we including investment income or just paycheck income?

Good question. DH works part time because he wants to, so our income is half of what it used to be. But he could retire today and our lifestyle wouldn't change. We worked hard and picked great careers.

 

[aprilgail2]

Our AGI is under $20,000 a year. We inherited a home, so we are absolutely blessed there (but it does cost us $700 a month to live here with insurance, taxes, electricity and heat only, not including upkeep on a 250 year old farmhouse! So the cost is as much as a mortgage.).

That 700 wouldn't put a dent in the cost of heat, electric, insurance and taxes here. For a small home (my property is 60x100) the heat is 270 a month, electric 175 a month, homeowners insurance 175 a month, property taxes 650 a month. So just for that is over 1200 a month, not including water (not really expensive-about 50.00 every 3 months), cable (130.00), and that is just for the house--not including, car, food etc!

 

[plummer925]

That 700 wouldn't put a dent in the cost of heat, electric, insurance and taxes here. For a small home (my property is 60x100) the heat is 270 a month, electric 175 a month, homeowners insurance 175 a month, property taxes 650 a month. So just for that is over 1200 a month, not including water (not really expensive-about 50.00 every 3 months), cable (130.00), and that is just for the house--not including, car, food etc!

You pay over $7500 a year in property taxes on a 600 square foot house?! Heat is $270 a month on 600 square feet!? I live in Maine and heat a drafty 1200 sq foot farmhouse and heat runs me about $200 a month (avg over the year). All your prices seem really high...but your property taxes are unbelievable!

And my $700 did not include things like cable (I would NEVER pay $130 a month for tv - I do not have cable - I have $8 netflix...nothing wrong with people paying that, but it is not something we choose to do).

We have a well and a septic tank, so no money there unless the tank needs to be pumped (once every 5 years or so) or the water pump in the well breaks.

 

[reginaastralis]

You know what's interesting about this, to me, is that while we're currently on the low low end of the numbers, it is a choice we've made. I have a "friend" who has been giving me a lot of grief about this topic lately, because she keeps making incredibly rude comments about our spending habits. I currently stay home, while my boyfriend and I are both in school full time. If I worked, our income would be double ... and I'm looking at going back to work part time in the spring, and I'm actually almost happy about it. However, this woman likes to make comments like "It must be nice to always go to Disney." or "You can only do that because you have one kid." and it's infuriating. (I should also say I only deal with this pain because our children are friends .... but whew)

However, we go to Disney as often as we do because we put it in our budget. We're locals, and we pay on the payment plan each month, and it's part of entertainment money. We clip coupons and shop sales so that we can do fun things. Our daughter is nearly nine, and we made part of her chores to help with meal planning, clipping coupons and shopping sales ... and she knows if we come in under budget in the grocery department, we put the extra money into our Disney envelope. We pinch pennies so I can volunteer at my daughter's school multiple days a week, and so we don't have to fork over money for daycare.

I hope in the next million years when we are (finally!) done with school and make much more we still live a similar life, because we're happy right now, and I don't want that to change.

 

[stasijane]

My household is about 4 down on the list. Its sad to say though that I am definitely well into the first ring on income. My other half makes us jump that high. We dont have to pay rent as our house is paid off but we keep separate accounts so While I like my trips to the world its hard to pay for them on my income but I would never ask for my other half to pay for anything even though he is capable. And as odd as it sounds he dont like to travel especially to my happy place.

 

[disney1990]

Income is not necessarily an indication of happiness or success in life.

We have never been at the top of the pay scale, yet we have a paid off house and raised two daughters. We go to Disney at least once every year and have since 1990. We are very disciplined when it comes to money.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

Income is not necessarily an indication of happiness or success in life.

We have never been at the top of the pay scale, yet we have a paid off house and raised two daughters. We go to Disney at least once every year and have since 1990. We are very disciplined when it comes to money.

That is very true. Every study I have ever seen indicates that once people are over a certain level of income, basically the level where they no longer need to actively worry about whether they will have enough to live, money does not change one's self-perception of happiness.

There is a short-term bump in "self-reported happiness" when somebody gets "more money" but after a relatively short period of increased happiness, things return to normal. In other words, happy people will be happy, regardless of whether they make $50,000 or $500,000 per year and unhappy people will be unhappy, regardless of their income being $50,000 or $500,000. In my own career I see this every day, and it is absolutely anecdotally true, as well.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

It will be EXTREMELY unscientific considering everyone is from a different area of the earth and the incomes vary with the areas.

I think there was a similar poll a while back. It is hard to do a poll like this, I agree. For one thing, the lower end folks could potentially be teens or young adults still living at home, not actually paying their own way in life yet.

It also leaves out single vs married and number of kids, etc. I'm about the national average (which puts me in the bottom third on the poll) but I'm single with no kids so I have a lot of disposable income where a family making the same amount raising a family would probably have to be much more frugal.

Even with all the missing variables I still love polls like this, they may not be scientific but they provide a basic oversight and being we are on an expensive vacation blog I'm not surprised by the results.

Ppl always ask me how can we afford to go to Disney so much. I usually just tell them I find good deals and save up for it.

How do you tell ppl without making them feel bad that well I take a lot of very expensive vacations because we can afford it. We have a very high income.

And the bad thing about my situation is it is ONLY my husband working and his salary is extraordinary compared to most.

We live modestly though. We do not live above or even near our means. I do drive a luxury car but that is the only indication we make above average money. We live in a normal 2500 sq ft house on 2 acres of land. Not a McMansion.

I love when people ask me how I can afford expensive trips or other luxuries, especially coworkers who make the same amount of money I do, because I get to tell them it's because I live within my means and don't have debt. I honestly don't think people grasp that no debt = freedom. I have a lot of friends who make 6 figures between them and their spouse who have a couple $1000 luxury car payments, live in massive houses with $4000 mortgages, carry $1k designer purses, wear $200 jeans, etc, etc, etc who just can't figure out why they are always broke, I feel like I'm opening their eyes that there is another way.

 

[DawnM]

Yes. DH's work has many of the same.

We are a family of 5. He works with some singles who make what he makes (heck, we used to be single too as we didn't get married until age 29 and started having kids in our 30s.)

Life was very different pre-kids!

Anyway, some of his co-workers make comment about how cheap he is, but they have debt......we only have mortgage. And we have a healthy savings for emergencies and future car purchases, etc....

And we have college looming for the kids.

Even though we can afford more now than we could 8 years ago when I stopped working full time, we don't spend it.

Dawn

I love when people ask me how I can afford expensive trips or other luxuries, especially coworkers who make the same amount of money I do, because I get to tell them it's because I live within my means and don't have debt. I honestly don't think people grasp that no debt = freedom. I have a lot of friends who make 6 figures between them and their spouse who have a couple $1000 luxury car payments, live in massive houses with $4000 mortgages, carry $1k designer purses, wear $200 jeans, etc, etc, etc who just can't figure out why they are always broke, I feel like I'm opening their eyes that there is another way.

 

[Colleen27]

I love when people ask me how I can afford expensive trips or other luxuries because I get to tell them it's because I live within my means and don't have debt. I honestly don't think a lot of people grasp that no debt = freedom. I have a lot of friends who make 6 figures + between them and their spouse who have a couple $1000 luxury car payments, live in massive houses with $4000 mortgages, carry $1k designer purses, wear $200 shoes, etc, etc, etc who are on the verge of bankruptcy and just can't grasp why they are always broke despite making a ton of money, I feel like I'm opening their eyes that there is another way.

I think that's true when you're talking to people at about the same or higher income than yourself, but Crisi is right about it being only half the picture here on the DIS where you have posters with six-figure incomes talking about being debt free and living within one's means in response to a question from someone making 50K/year. And I think that's why we see some of the absurd extremes we do in response to some threads (ie never ever vacation with debt other than a mortgage, never ever vacation unless you have a year's expenses in an emergency fund, fully fund retirement and college before traveling). Those things are relatively simple matters for someone with a six figure income in most places unless the family is grossly overspending, but applying those same "rules" to a family living on 50K is essentially the same as saying "You can't afford a vacation now and probably never will".

 

[crisi]

That is very true. Every study I have ever seen indicates that once people are over a certain level of income, basically the level where they no longer need to actively worry about whether they will have enough to live, money does not change one's self-perception of happiness.

There is a short-term bump in "self-reported happiness" when somebody gets "more money" but after a relatively short period of increased happiness, things return to normal. In other words, happy people will be happy, regardless of whether they make $50,000 or $500,000 per year and unhappy people will be unhappy, regardless of their income being $50,000 or $500,000. In my own career I see this every day, and it is absolutely anecdotally true, as well.

I'm a little odd. I have a lot of stress over financial insecurity. So for me, its very important that I have a savings account, enough income coming in that my net worth is increasing, and low enough spending that my net worth is increasing. When that isn't happening, there is a whole lot of stress in my life. Stress is not condusive to happiness. Now, those numbers might not need to be large (they have been large, so the stress of paying for kids college is gone, the stress of saving for retirement is gone, the stress of 'if my husband gets laid off we could lose the house' is gone). However, I know this about myself.

I have a girlfriend (several friends actually, but one in particular) who it doesn't bother to be much closer to the edge. She is quitting her job and they are living off her husbands much smaller part time income. When I do the math, my stomach turns knotty, because nothing can go wrong or they will be screwed. But she is comfortable with it, they've taken similar steps before. And she figures that if things go wrong, she'll get a different job, and his job is secure and they'll pay the mortgage and feed the kids, and if everyone is wearing two sweaters in the winter, as long as the heat is high enough so the pipes don't freeze, they'll all survive.

 

[A_Princess'_Daddy]

I'm a little odd. I have a lot of stress over financial insecurity. So for me, its very important that I have a savings account, enough income coming in that my net worth is increasing, and low enough spending that my net worth is increasing. When that isn't happening, there is a whole lot of stress in my life. Stress is not condusive to happiness. Now, those numbers might not need to be large (they have been large, so the stress of paying for kids college is gone, the stress of saving for retirement is gone, the stress of 'if my husband gets laid off we could lose the house' is gone). However, I know this about myself.

I have a girlfriend (several friends actually, but one in particular) who it doesn't bother to be much closer to the edge. She is quitting her job and they are living off her husbands much smaller part time income. When I do the math, my stomach turns knotty, because nothing can go wrong or they will be screwed. But she is comfortable with it, they've taken similar steps before. And she figures that if things go wrong, she'll get a different job, and his job is secure and they'll pay the mortgage and feed the kids, and if everyone is wearing two sweaters in the winter, as long as the heat is high enough so the pipes don't freeze, they'll all survive.

I absolutely agree with your point, and my post was simplistic because it factors in only two emotions, whereas the studies actually factored in more. I, too, tend to internalize stress, but the basic premise of the research is that because I tend to "be stressed," if I had infinite money, I'd still be stressed, only now I'd be stressed about the rampant inflation infinite money would cause.

But also, there are outliers on any study. There are people for whom more money (equated with financial security) does actually increase relative happiness (or, more correctly, for whom it decreases unhappiness/stress/anxiety/etc.) and you may be one of those people. But Money=Happiness is not a perfect theorem.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

Even though we can afford more now than we could 8 years ago when I stopped working full time, we don't spend it.
Dawn

That's the key. For years I didn't get it, I made decent money but was always broke, stressed, and one step ahead of my creditors, one day I was talking with my dad about how a family member has it all together and I suddenly saw the light. He made more money than me but drove an older car, he made more money than me but had a more modest home, I'm not sure how I never saw it but it suddenly clicked that although he made more money than me in many cases I had newer, nicer things. That was over 12 years ago and since that realization, and the drastic spending changes that followed, I can't think of a single time I've stressed about money because I've got no debt (other than mortgage) and money in the bank. It's liberating.

 

[Colleen27]

Income is not necessarily an indication of happiness or success in life.

We have never been at the top of the pay scale, yet we have a paid off house and raised two daughters. We go to Disney at least once every year and have since 1990. We are very disciplined when it comes to money.

That's true, once you get past the point where you aren't worrying about essentials. And that point is different for everyone. We've made choices that have prioritized family time and flexibility over income and we're comfortable with where we're at, but many people don't get that. They look at the way we live and think about how stressed they'd be at the household to-do list (we are slowly restoring/renovating our 1880 Victorian) or about college funding or other costs that aren't a source of stress for us because we're just not really worriers in that sense. If we have what we need, and we have our health, we will make the rest work.

 

[crisi]

I think that's true when you're talking to people at about the same or higher income than yourself, but Crisi is right about it being only half the picture here on the DIS where you have posters with six-figure incomes talking about being debt free and living within one's means in response to a question from someone making 50K/year. And I think that's why we see some of the absurd extremes we do in response to some threads (ie never ever vacation with debt other than a mortgage, never ever vacation unless you have a year's expenses in an emergency fund, fully fund retirement and college before traveling). Those things are relatively simple matters for someone with a six figure income in most places unless the family is grossly overspending, but applying those same "rules" to a family living on 50K is essentially the same as saying "You can't afford a vacation now and probably never will".

We've seen it work to the other absurd extreme as well, where people are in one thread wondering how they'll buy groceries for the kids and in another thread planning their forth trip to Disney in two years because "I need it."

Each end of the income spectrum could probably stand to learn something from the other - at the high end we could stand to learn that cutting out eating out, not having granite countertops and driving a five year old car is something people at the lower end do and STILL don't vacation every year if they are responsible. At the other end, some people could learn that one of the ways some of us have gotten financial security is to spend what we could afford to spend - even if that means skipping vacations we "need" and "deserve."

 

[CanBeGrumpy]

I agree that I am not surprised to see so many ppl making above average money.

Ppl always ask me how can we afford to go to Disney so much. I usually just tell them I find good deals and save up for it.

How do you tell ppl without making them feel bad that well I take a lot of very expensive vacations because we can afford it. We have a very high income.

And the bad thing about my situation is it is ONLY my husband working and his salary is extraordinary compared to most.

We live modestly though. We do not live above or even near our means. I do drive a luxury car but that is the only indication we make above average money. We live in a normal 2500 sq ft house on 2 acres of land. Not a McMansion.

You can't look at most of the posters sigs and see they go to Disney two or three times a year and assume they make 50k or less per year.

Would you mind sharing what your husband does for a living? I ask because I would like to embark on a career change, but only to a career that earns a substantial amount of money (and that I enjoy!!). I am currently a mechanical engineer and although the money is good, I just don't enjoy it, so I am looking to switch to something I like that also makes better money. Anyone who has a well-paying, enjoyable career is welcome to respond.
Thanks all!

 

[eliza61]

It also leaves out single vs married and number of kids, etc. I'm about the national average (which puts me in the bottom third on the poll) but I'm single with no kids so I have a lot of disposable income where a family making the same amount raising a family would probably have to be much more frugal.

Even with all the missing variables I still love polls like this, they may not be scientific but they provide a basic oversight and being we are on an expensive vacation blog I'm not surprised by the results.



I love when people ask me how I can afford expensive trips or other luxuries, especially coworkers who make the same amount of money I do, because I get to tell them it's because I live within my means and don't have debt. I honestly don't think people grasp that no debt = freedom. I have a lot of friends who make 6 figures between them and their spouse who have a couple $1000 luxury car payments, live in massive houses with $4000 mortgages, carry $1k designer purses, wear $200 jeans, etc, etc, etc who just can't figure out why they are always broke, I feel like I'm opening their eyes that there is another way.

Personally I don't think that's true either. My sister is an interior designer by schooling.
When she was 55 she brought herself this huge multimillion dollar mansion. She loves it and is happier than a pig in you know what.
She gets to do what she loves and that's design and entertain. She lives in NYC, spends her money on the things that bring her joy.
Now would I take out a million dollar mortgage at 55? Nope, no way jose but that's me.

I think money is a tool.
I took a new position in my company because not only was it more money, it also had a higher pension calculation. so I really could not, not take it.

I absolutely loathe and hate my new position. I keep telling myself that I only have 5 more years to do it an them I'm outta here.

Now me, I was perfectly happy making less money, with a car note and a mortgage. My happiness did not depend on paying off my mortgage nor was I on some plan to pay any thing off early and I darn sure wasn't giving up my vacations to become debt free.